The Mongol's Mark on Global History

[TheDarkRodent]

Westerners commonly identify 13th century Mongols as barbaric plunderers focused primarily on conquest, slaughter, and destruction. This awareness is based on Persian, Chinese, Russian, and other accounts of the speed and mercilessness with which the Mongols stamped out the largest contiguous land empire in world history. It has shaped both Asian and Western images of the Mongols and of their earliest leader, Genghis Khan. This view has diverted awareness from the considerable contributions the Mongols made to 13th- and 14th-century civilization. Though the brutality of the Mongols’ military campaigns ought not to be downplayed or ignored, neither should their influence on Eurasian culture be overlooked.

The Mongol era in China is remembered primarily for the rule of Khubilai Khan, grandson of Genghis Khan. Khubilai patronized painting and the theater, which experienced a golden age during the Yuan dynasty, over which the Mongols ruled. Khubilai and his successors also recruited and employed Confucian scholars and Tibetan Buddhist monks as advisers, a practice which led to numerous ground-breaking ideas and the construction of new temples and monasteries.

Many developments in medicine and astronomy were also financed by the Mongol Khans throughout their spheres of influence. Their construction projects included the extension of the Grand Canal in the direction of Beijing, the building of a capital city which is present-day Beijing and the construction of a sizable network of roads and postal stations throughout their lands. They also promoted developments in science and engineering.

The Mongol empire forged the inextricable link between Europe and Asia and marshaled in an era of recurrent and extended contact between East and West. Once the Mongols had achieved relative stability and order in their newly acquired domains, they neither discouraged nor impeded relations with foreigners. Though they never abandoned their claims of universal rule, they were hospitable to foreign travelers, even those whose monarchs had not submitted to them.

The Mongols also encouraged travel in the sizable section of Asia that was under their rule, permitting European merchants, craftsmen, and envoys to journey as far as China for the first time. Asian goods reached Europe along the caravan trails “Silk Roads”, and the ensuing European demand for these products eventually inspired the search for a sea route to Asia. Thus, it could be said that the Mongol invasions indirectly led to Europe’s “Age of Exploration” in the 15th century.

The Mongols’ receptiveness to foreigners was a critical factor in promoting cultural exchange and a truly “global” history. Their attitude of relative openness toward foreigners and foreign influence led to a sudden interchange of products, peoples, technology, and science throughout the Mongol domains.

So it is no accident that Marco Polo reached China during this era. Also it was no accident that Ibn Battuta, the great Islamic traveler from Morocco, also reached China during this time, and that Rabban Sauma, a Nestorian Christian from the area around Beijing, reached Europe and had audiences with the kings of England and France and the Pope.

From the Mongol period on, then, we can speak about a Eurasian, if not a global, history in which developments in one part of Europe would have an impact not only in Europe but also in Asia with the same being true for Asia. If we remember that Christopher Columbus was actually looking for a new route to Asia when he landed in America and that one of the few books he had with him was Marco Polo’s account of his travels in Asia. We could even say that global history begins with the Mongols and the bridge they built between the East and the West.

The Mongols were a fascinating, fierce, and adaptable people, who conquered and held more territory than any empire in recorded history. It is a dream of mine to travel to the inner steps of present day Mongolia as many of the native tribesman still live much as their proud ancestors once did. To this day there can still be found bands of nomadic Mongols with yurts for their homes and kumis (fermented mares milk) to warm their spirits and their bones.

[Captain Politik]

No countries matter on this earth except America, Western Europe, and some middle eastern countries.

America CHOSE to make China "wealthy" in the 90's so we can use there slave labor.

The mongolian empire was gone in a flash of a second, so I dont consider it one of the great empires.

[Beam_Me_Up_Scotty]

No countries matter on this earth except America, Western Europe, and some middle eastern countries.

America CHOSE to make China "wealthy" in the 90's so we can use there slave labor.

The mongolian empire was gone in a flash of a second, so I dont consider it one of the great empires.

You're a complete fucking idiot and should be permanently banned from EVER posting in this forum...EVER.

[TheDarkRodent]

No countries matter on this earth except America, Western Europe, and some middle eastern countries.

America CHOSE to make China "wealthy" in the 90's so we can use there slave labor.

The mongolian empire was gone in a flash of a second, so I dont consider it one of the great empires.

You really need to hone up on your trolling skills FAIL.

[Lord hang man]

The thing was they didn't really stop to settle any where. They just killed everyone that might move back into the lands they conquered.

[Beam_Me_Up_Scotty]

The thing was they didn't really stop to settle any where. They just killed everyone that might move back into the lands they conquered.

Actually, they installed local leaders in the place of Mongols to avoid any regional tensions.

[Yggdrasil]

I don't think they had much of a positive effect on Middle-Eastern and Central Asian civilization. I'm not too brushed up on my history in that area, but if I recall correctly they caused the depopulation of what had been flourishing centers of Islamic culture in Central Asia, and they shattered the fragile irrigation systems that sustained agricultural prosperity in the Tigris and Euphrates valley, putting a lengthy damper on economic prosperity in the region.

[Beam_Me_Up_Scotty]

They invented a very effective centralized postal system that stretched long beyond their empire, and long after the Mongol's ceased to exist:

To maintain communication between the individual khanates in the empire, and between these khanates and the khan, and throughout the empire, a rapid and effective post system, yam, was organized. A continuous change of mounts, made possible by the enormous numbers of horses available to them, allowed some of the riders to travel over two hundred miles in one day. There were three main classes in the postal system: `second class', carried by foot- runners; `first class', carried on horseback; and `His Majesty's Service', carried by non-stop riders who changed horses but not riders. This yam lasted long after the empire had ceased to exist.

The Khanate established a very effective legal system that helped to eliminate local tensions:

The Yassa, or legal code, that Genghis Khan compiled and imposed on the Mongols, had immediate and far-reaching effects. It brought all the different tribes, with their different laws, under one legal system; eliminating friction and internecine wars; and enabled Genghis Khan to unify the tribes and so build up his enormous empire. Thanks to the Yassa, among the Mongols, theft was virtually stamped out, as well as murder, adultery, sodomy, fornication, usury, intentional lying and sorcery. An interesting provision of the Yassa was the stiff penalty, death, for the same person going bankrupt three times. First and second bankruptcies carried lesser penalties. The Yassa provided for the proper way to kill an animal, if it were to be eaten; conduct in battle, whether attacking or retreating; what to do with a runaway slave; and prohibited giving food or clothing to a prisoner without permission from his captor. Death was the penalty for disobeying any of the above. The Code set forth an orderly and systematic way of levying taxes.

Under Genghis Khan a most complete religious tolerance was established across the length and breadth of Asia. Churches weren't harmed and priests of all faiths were permitted freedom to practice their beliefs. The strength and distribution of the principal religions of the world were permanently changed by Mongol conquests.

The Mongols reopened four major trade routes that had been closed, or disrupted by wars and bandits, for centuries:

* (1) the old Silk Road, going from West China, through the Tarim Basin, West Turkestan and on into Iran;
* (2) an alternate route from the lower Volga, along the Syr Darya, through Dzungaria to West China;
* (3) a sea route from China to the Persian Gulf; and
* (4) a Siberian route, possibly pioneered by the Mongols, that began in the Volga-Kama region, ran through southern Siberia to Lake Baikal, and then turned south to Karakorum and on into Peking.

Skilled artists and craftsmen, as well as scientists, physicians and astronomers, from captured countries, were moved freely around the vast Mongol empire. Of particular importance were the exchanges between China and Iran: Bolad Chengziang, a Mongol ambassador to Iran and the Persian historian, Rashid al-Din, worked together to have Chinese books on medicine, agronomy, and government translated into Persian. They also had an agricultural experiment station set up in Tabriz to test new seed strains from China and India. Chinese physicians and astronomers were brought to Iran and the Ilkhans sent Muslim astronomers and physicians to China. Food recipes were shared, including the preparation of sherbet.

[TheDarkRodent]

I don't think they had much of a positive effect on Middle-Eastern and Central Asian civilization. I'm not too brushed up on my history in that area, but if I recall correctly they caused the depopulation of what had been flourishing centers of Islamic culture in Central Asia, and they shattered the fragile irrigation systems that sustained agricultural prosperity in the Tigris and Euphrates valley, putting a lengthy damper on economic prosperity in the region.

While it is true that they did depopulate whole cities and to a lesser extent regions the advances they brought in communication and trade between east and west and the associated cultural exchanges left an undeniable positive mark on the shaping of the western world. Europe was centuries behind the east in science, the arts, navigation, and all manner of advanced studies. The Mongol Empire reached as far west as modern day Eastern Poland and only stopped expanding due to the death of Genghis Kahn.

These incursions were what sparked Europe's interest in and awareness of eastern science, philosophy, and other cultural advancements. Had it not been for there brutal ways they would never have conquered so much so rapidly and it may have been another 200 to 400 years before Europe and the western world made the advances needed to colonize the western hemisphere.

So while there was certainly a downside to the actions of the Mongols in terms of the effects on certain civilizations and their intentions had nothing to do with the eventual outcome of their actions. It can be easily argued that the western world would not be what it is today had they not bridged the east and west as rapidly as they managed to do. And it is undeniable that they left their mark on global history.

[Beam_Me_Up_Scotty]

The Mongol Empire reached as far west as modern day Eastern Poland and only stopped expanding due to the death of Genghis Kahn.

The influence of the Mongols spread far further than that during the reign of Ghengis Khan. Most major European, Asian and Middle Eastern nations sent representatives to his court.

[TheDarkRodent]

The influence of the Mongols spread far further than that during the reign of Ghengis Khan. Most major European, Asian and Middle Eastern nations sent representatives to his court.

Agreed, however I was referring to the land areas that were under direct subjugation of the Mongols not the areas that were influenced by their proximity. :D

[Former_Member]

I don't think they had much of a positive effect on Middle-Eastern and Central Asian civilization. I'm not too brushed up on my history in that area, but if I recall correctly they caused the depopulation of what had been flourishing centers of Islamic culture in Central Asia, and they shattered the fragile irrigation systems that sustained agricultural prosperity in the Tigris and Euphrates valley, putting a lengthy damper on economic prosperity in the region.

yeah.

I'd say the mark they left on the globe was more negative than positive, I wonder how much it changed the course of history. The arabic world was traditionally dominant; perhaps if Mongols hadn't have been united then we'd see an ascendant arabic world today?

[Beam_Me_Up_Scotty]

yeah.

I'd say the mark they left on the globe was more negative than positive, I wonder how much it changed the course of history. The arabic world was traditionally dominant; perhaps if Mongols hadn't have been united then we'd see an ascendant arabic world today?

The Abbasid Caliphate was long out the door by the time the Mongols reached the heart of their empire; the destruction caused by the Mongolian invasions led to rise of the Turks, who filled the void left by the caliphate.

[BungHole]

They fucking infected the rest of the population with down syndrome.:mad:

Now I too am mongaloid.:(

[BlackWoland]

didn't they completely destroy the middle east's libraries and cultural centers, and permanently set the middle east behind europe in terms of future development?

[Phlegm!]

They fucking crushed Baghdad, man. That place was the hub of intellectual folks 700 years back, and the Mongols hit the reset button on that place and swept it to dust. Work cultivated for 500 years in those grand libraries in Baghdad were destroyed, so the rivers wept black with ink. Somewhat 100,000 to a million people were killed, just for what? They assumed they were Chinese. Plus there's rumors whether the Mongols caused the Bubonic plague/Black Death that majorly depopulated Europe by over 100 million people.

[Kaliayev]

Nicely put, DarkRodent.

It's funny I should see this, since I've so recently been thumbing through the works of Marshall G. S. Hodgson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Hodgson), who, while more normally known for his work on Islamic history, also touches on the Mongol invasions. As the Wiki link says, he believes that modernity could have arisen in the Islamic world, as opposed to Europe, if not for the Mongol conquests.

I'm slightly suspicious of that, since all sort of "what if" alternative history ideas tend to rely on one single thing changing, then all following trends happening as normal, without some other form of disruption occuring further down the line.

But I think it's impact on Western Europe isn't commonly acknowledged. Avoiding the negative consequences of a Mongol invasion, while benefitting from the increased trade, scientific knowledge, exposure to Eastern philosophy etc is clearly going to be of benefit to the region. That Western Europe was a civilizational backwater compared to the Islamic world and central Asia doesn't seem to be a very widely known fact, and so consequently, the impact of the conquests is also mostly unknown.

One major negative I notice other people on the thread haven't mentioned is Russia. While Russia has had many other problems, historically, the formation of the Golden Horde (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Horde) really informed Russian fears of both Eastern invasion and Western opportunism up to the present. While the Mongols invaded from the east, reducing the Kievan Rus state to vassal status, western kingdoms and groups, like the Teutonic Knights, took advantage of the chaos to capture formerly Rus owned land and cities.

It's entirely plausible that the Russian fear of encirclement stems from this historical episode. For instance, although there were many reasons (such as Red Army weakness due to purges) why Stalin agreed to a pact with Hitler in 1939, one interpretation is that the fear of Japanese invasion drove Stalin to pre-emptively buy Hitler out of any possible Axis invasion of Russia from the east and west. Japanese troops in Manchuria had engaged in a series of border clashes with the Red Army since 1938, stoking fears of a repeat eastern invasion-western opportunism scenario, and the sensible move would be to neutralize one threat and crush the other.

I believe a similar fear was present during the Russian Civil War, when British, French and American troops advised White Russian forces in the west, while in the east another White Russian army was being given (very little) support from Japanese and Chinese sources, and their troops were drawn largely from Mongol and Central European populations. I'm not entirely sure on that point, however, I'd need to hit the books to make certain.

That might explain why Russian strategists tended to have a very dim view of NATO during the Cold War, even beyond what one would expect from such an ideologically charged conflict, and one of the reasons why political paranoia concerning the intentions of other nations is an ongoing Russian tradition (though, of course, even paranoids have real enemies).

[Lord hang man]

Actually, they installed local leaders in the place of Mongols to avoid any regional tensions.

Yea but the way I see it they would just raze and murder a large amount of the populace, make it known that their area had been established, then completely jet it and keep on doing the same in an expansive fashion across the continent. How many of em would be able to remain in the conquered region without being considerably detrimental to the warring pattern their society had established? I think their legacy is mostly one of plundering, not unlike the Vikings.

[Rolf]

The Mongol's Mark on Global History is quite large. Rolf knows that if it were not for the Mongol's, it would of been the Middle Eastern (and not the European "Western") culture that became globally dominant.

[TheDarkRodent]

Nicely put, DarkRodent.

It's funny I should see this, since I've so recently been thumbing through the works of Marshall G. S. Hodgson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Hodgson), who, while more normally known for his work on Islamic history, also touches on the Mongol invasions. As the Wiki link says, he believes that modernity could have arisen in the Islamic world, as opposed to Europe, if not for the Mongol conquests.

I'm slightly suspicious of that, since all sort of "what if" alternative history ideas tend to rely on one single thing changing, then all following trends happening as normal, without some other form of disruption occuring further down the line.

But I think it's impact on Western Europe isn't commonly acknowledged. Avoiding the negative consequences of a Mongol invasion, while benefitting from the increased trade, scientific knowledge, exposure to Eastern philosophy etc is clearly going to be of benefit to the region. That Western Europe was a civilizational backwater compared to the Islamic world and central Asia doesn't seem to be a very widely known fact, and so consequently, the impact of the conquests is also mostly unknown.

One major negative I notice other people on the thread haven't mentioned is Russia. While Russia has had many other problems, historically, the formation of the Golden Horde (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Horde) really informed Russian fears of both Eastern invasion and Western opportunism up to the present. While the Mongols invaded from the east, reducing the Kievan Rus state to vassal status, western kingdoms and groups, like the Teutonic Knights, took advantage of the chaos to capture formerly Rus owned land and cities.

It's entirely plausible that the Russian fear of encirclement stems from this historical episode. For instance, although there were many reasons (such as Red Army weakness due to purges) why Stalin agreed to a pact with Hitler in 1939, one interpretation is that the fear of Japanese invasion drove Stalin to pre-emptively buy Hitler out of any possible Axis invasion of Russia from the east and west. Japanese troops in Manchuria had engaged in a series of border clashes with the Red Army since 1938, stoking fears of a repeat eastern invasion-western opportunism scenario, and the sensible move would be to neutralize one threat and crush the other.

I believe a similar fear was present during the Russian Civil War, when British, French and American troops advised White Russian forces in the west, while in the east another White Russian army was being given (very little) support from Japanese and Chinese sources, and their troops were drawn largely from Mongol and Central European populations. I'm not entirely sure on that point, however, I'd need to hit the books to make certain.

That might explain why Russian strategists tended to have a very dim view of NATO during the Cold War, even beyond what one would expect from such an ideologically charged conflict, and one of the reasons why political paranoia concerning the intentions of other nations is an ongoing Russian tradition (though, of course, even paranoids have real enemies).

A very insightful reply, especially in regard to the Russian mindset. Thanks for an excellent addition to the thread.

[AtrainV]

I think we've got to have some rules set down for plagiarism (or posting as if the words were your own when they're not) even if the main point of the thread is merely to promote discussion. For example, the majority of (if not all) of TheDarkRodent's OP is completely ripped off of another text.

Now, again, it's not like we're a scholarly journal here that requires complete authenticity, but I think it would be good of us to at least try to post sources (as TheDarkRodent has done before) if we're going to use somebody else's words.

[Launchpad]

Not to mention the Mongols chased the 'barbarians' into Western Europe - resulting in the fall of Rome.

...

That being said, I think too many modern historians have too big of a hard on for the Mongols. Your idea of a Mongol sanctioned 'globalization' is an interesting one, although that I would say earlier events occurring between W. Eur. and the Middle East/Asia really began this trend (*see Crusades).

[Yggdrasil]

Not to mention the Mongols chased the 'barbarians' into Western Europe - resulting in the fall of Rome.

...

That being said, I think too many modern historians have too big of a hard on for the Mongols. Your idea of a Mongol sanctioned 'globalization' is an interesting one, although that I would say earlier events occurring between W. Eur. and the Middle East/Asia really began this trend (*see Crusades).

The Barbarians were pushed into Western Europe by the Huns, not the Mongols. They were all the same kind of Central Asian steppe people though.

Actually, I cracked open my history book and read some real interesting stuff about this topic while on the toilet the other day. Yeah, I get my reading done on the toilet. The book had a lot of interesting things to say; one of the foremost points the book stressed when talking about the Muslim conquest's effects on Islamic civilization was that the invasions induced a fundamental shift in Islamic thinking. The book proposes that Islam shifted from the kind of strong, organized faith that had sponsored intellectual and creative development to one of introspective belief and mysticism. Simply put, the Mongol invasions rocked the Islamic world off the course of development it had been under.

[Former_Member]

Probably made them far more militant than they had been as well...
Interestingly, this point has really been focusing on what effect they had to the West; probably 'cause that's the area with most relevance to us and ultimately the following global history.

Think about China though, the effect they had there. Who is to say that China wouldn't have sorted it self out and went on to become the dominant force in subsequent world history had the Mongols not fucked its shit up so badly? Can't really say much on it, 'cause it never happened; but it's an interesting thought.

A side point, but calling them 'The Barbarians' is shockingly anachronistic too.

[Launchpad]

Hilariously, Ygg, in the Crusades Muslim areas saw the invading Christians as 'Barbarians' as they were actually more advanced at the time. It was nearly a scene for scene replication of the fall of Rome - with similar results for power structures, religion, etc.

Ryan - I know we aren't supposed to call the Gauls and etc 'barbarians', but isn't it fun?