Your Opinion of The British?

[Daran]

This is a simple thread, succinctly: What is your overall opinion of the British Empire throughout history? I thought that this might make an interesting thread because of the controversial and sometimes sordid past of the nation.

I haven't come to a unanimous decision yet, but my overall view of the British is a negatively tinged one. On one hand, we have one of the greatest works of constitutionality -the Magna Carta- instituted by the Barons to curtail the absolutist monarch King John in the 12th century. Then there's the English Civil War which replaced the country's absolute monarchy with a constitutional monarchy, while nations like France would keep their absolutist monarchs until the French Revolution (subsequently, other nations followed suite with revolution). On the other hand, we saw the unbridled nature of imperialism en masse with the slave trade, colonialism and drug trafficking.

(Edit: The British also deserve a definite article.)

[ratfrink]

Hmm. There are two sides to the argument about the slave trade, and here's the other one: The British abolished the slave trade first in England in 1772, then in the rest of the Empire in 1807-1833, whereas the US continued to use slaves until 1865. So, although the Empire was the biggest single contributor to the slave trade (something like 40% of slaves were British), it was also one of the first countries to abolish it, and the massive size of the Empire also meant that this early abolition was the first major turning-point in the abolition of slavery in the western world.

[FireStarter]

Aside from TJ, I think they're a fine group of people. :thumbsup:

[Ebola]

Those bastards!! :) They stole our entire fleet in 1807 and in effect removed our "super power" status. (Danish)

[I Still Needmoney]

Aside from TJ, I think they're a fine group of people. :thumbsup:

It is sooo good to hear it!

[TheDarkRodent]

I think overall they have contributed to more wars and more exploration of third world nations than any other nation on the planet. Although there has been many benefits that have come from their actions my overall opinion is that the bad outweighs the good?

[shopping cart for brains]

WLc-bvcdNTw

They're very fruity.

[I Still Needmoney]

They are my favourite civ to use on Age of Empires III :D

[Yggdrasil]

I tend to think like the British empire, actually. Sure, I can see the harm they caused to Black Africans and other native populations the world over, but something about their determination, willpower and unbridled strength really makes me admire them.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2a/Battle_of_bunker_hill_by_percy_moran.jpg/725px-Battle_of_bunker_hill_by_percy_moran.jpg Fuck yeah :thumbsup:

They are my favourite civ to use on Age of Empires III :D

Agreed :p

[BungHole]

They speak a really fucked up version of the American language.:thumbsdown:

Oh, and this:

drug trafficking.

East India Company was one of the first great drug cartels.:thumbsup:

[HippieTrippie]

I think, while their methods and minority exploitation look cruel and unruly by todays standards, the expansion of the British, French, and Danish Empires allowed the world to advance technologically and in the modern human civilization/standards much quicker than it would have if everyone stayed in Europe.

[a giant pterodactyl]

my opinion of the british would be that they are like an old dying great grandparent. they were awesome during their time, have had a long life, and can be really annoying at times.

[I Still Needmoney]

They speak a really fucked up version of the American language.:thumbsdown:

http://www.brokencredit.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/Irony.jpg

[tibinstein]

All i can think of is it's the birth place of ppl with blotchy/pasty skin and bad teeth as well as a big ratio of females with large breasts 60% they say.

That's enough history as told by me.

tibz

[Rolf]

Rolf believes they were not Machiavellian enough.

[Bakayar]

I think overall they have contributed to more wars and more exploration of third world nations than any other nation on the planet. Although there has been many benefits that have come from their actions my overall opinion is that the bad outweighs the good?

Someone had to do it. By that I mean wars and slavery and all those happy bad things where inevitable. The british just happened to be the big kids on the block when those things did happen.

In a nutshell: human nature is unavoidable; blame is variable.

[Dread_Lord]

They've had a rich and colorful history filled with great minds and leaders. Today, however, The country is filled with weak willed and weak minded cowards.

[JustAnotherAsshole]

WLc-bvcdNTw

They're very fruity.

There's nothing fruity about people who go into battle with nothing but shitty muskets and swords.

[Snoopy]

The brits are queer.

[TheDarkRodent]

There's nothing fruity about people who go into battle with nothing but shitty muskets and swords.

The red coats = fruity

[JustAnotherAsshole]

The red coats = fruity

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/eb/Infantry,_Continental_Army,_1779-1783.jpg

The blue coats = ?

[Yggdrasil]

The red coats = fruity

:hrmph:

Those were some of the most capable, and undoubtedly some of the foolhardiest soldiers in history. Can you imagine marching in line, straight into the enemy, with cannon shells and grenades exploding everywhere and your view obfuscated by gunfire, bullets flying and blood spattering? Scary shit, no? Though I'm glorifying it a bit; the truth is that it was an age where military technology had evolved faster than techniques and manoeuvres of the time, and commanders still marched men directly at each other. It was admirable, though; 'least in my opinion.

[ratfrink]

Though I'm glorifying it a bit; the truth is that it was an age where military technology had evolved faster than techniques and manoeuvres of the time, and commanders still marched men directly at each other.

Yeah this is definitely true. The Napoleonic and especially the American Civil War were so incredibly bloody for this reason.

It's surprising that as late as the Somme in 1916, British commanders were still ordering their men to *walk* to the enemy lines, carrying all their gear. The French sprinted across as well as they could, equipped only with their rifles and ammo, and actually achieved a great deal more.

[TheDarkRodent]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/eb/Infantry,_Continental_Army,_1779-1783.jpg

The blue coats = ?

Blue Coats = French = Fruity

or

Blue Coats = American = Kicked Red Coats Fruity Ass.

Any other questions from the fruit basket?

[TheDarkRodent]

:hrmph:

Those were some of the most capable, and undoubtedly some of the foolhardiest soldiers in history. Can you imagine marching in line, straight into the enemy, with cannon shells and grenades exploding everywhere and your view obfuscated by gunfire, bullets flying and blood spattering? Scary shit, no? Though I'm glorifying it a bit; the truth is that it was an age where military technology had evolved faster than techniques and manoeuvres of the time, and commanders still marched men directly at each other. It was admirable, though; 'least in my opinion.

Meanwhile the Militia of the revolution hid behind trees and rocks and ambushed the crap out of them. The Continental Regulars on the other hand were just as "brave" (stupid) as the British.

[A$AP Weed Smoker]

I would say but I don't wanna type essays back and forth with Ryan1711.

[Former_Member]

I would say but I don't wanna type essays back and forth with Ryan1711.

I dislike the British. I'm not so small-minded I defend them because I hail from this island.
Please stop assuming everybody here is irrational and selfishly motivated.

[meta]

The British have a good sense of humor, work ethic, morals, although a bit stubborn but overall a good group of people.

[SHH]

If it wasn't for the British the US wouldn't exist, those stupid fuckers.

[Former_Member]

If it wasn't for the British the US wouldn't exist, those stupid fuckers.

Probably would, just be speaking Spanish or French.

[Uca]

Monty Python, Shaun of the Dead, Coupling, Spaced, The Office. Brits = :thumbsup:

[A$AP Weed Smoker]

To the OP:

Those things you listed weren't British, they were English; England ruled over Wales (and Ireland notionally) but Scotland was an entirely dependant kingdom. It wasn't really a state like we envisage today either, a collection of feudal holdings.

It certainly wasn't an Empire, it was incredibly insignificant in global power relations at the time; maybe about as much clout as say, Italy has in the world stage today.

Most of things listed weren't that great either. They were just about giving power to different elites, none were democratic or enlightened. The Levellers were the only decent group in the civil war really, neither of the mainstream sides were about giving power to the people.



This is true, but what Bakayar said. I may contest this too, Britain has fucked alot of shit up; but the USA has caught up very fast and may be leading by now. It's certainly one of the two though, maybe the French with an outside claim.



It's just fascism man, nothing to be proud of. Fascism gets things done, and can do amazing things; but it's still evil to the core.



Same as above, but every (West Euro) country was fighting battles like that. The British were not particularly brave; I don't think it's justified to say any group of people were braver or w/e than any other at any time in history, shit like that is all down to the individual.

My views on the British Empire are that it was operating for all the wrong reasons, and did a lot of short and medium term good. Ultimately, if the world works out; then the ends might justify the means (a global culture is necessary for harmony, and aggressive European exportation of culture has meant most of the world shares it largely), but the people involved were still shits.

Ultimately though, they didn't know any better. Still shits though.

*doesn't read any of this*

See, told ya

[Former_Member]

*doesn't read any of this*

See, told ya

Read this instead.

I dislike the British. I'm not so small-minded I defend them because I hail from this island.
Please stop assuming everybody here is irrational and selfishly motivated.

[BungHole]

http://www.brokencredit.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/Irony.jpg

Shut up you stupid Brit, and stop contorting my fair language.:mad:

[Firemind]

I don't have one, but they are responsible for directing most of this planet's problems.

[Morb]

My opinion of the Brits is pretty low. I mean come on, all they do all day is rape kangaroos, hunt crocodiles, and put shrimps on the barbie.

What kind of life is that?

[BungHole]

My opinion of the Brits is pretty low. I mean come on, all they do all day is rape kangaroos, hunt crocodiles, and put shrimps on the barbie.

What kind of life is that?

Aye, mate.

[FireStarter]

Does anyone actually read these friggin walls of text that Ryan types out?

[Former_Member]

You should check what forum you're in.
Also, 320 words is hardly a 'wall of text'.

[shopping cart for brains]

"Fuckin failures in a country ay failures. It's nae good blamin it oan the English fir colonising us. Ah don't hate the English. They're just wankers. We are colonised by wankers. We can't even pick a decent, vibrant, healthy culture to be colonised by. No. We're ruled by effete arseholes. What does that make us? The lowest of the fuckin low, the scum of the earth. The most wretched, servile, miserable, pathetic trash that was ever shat intae creation. Ah don't hate the English. They just git oan wi the shite thuv goat. Ah hate the Scots. "

-Rents.

[313]

The country as a whole:

http://www.dailypictures.info/free-pictures/4089/autism-asshole-disease-moral-jpg

[BungHole]

The country as a whole:

http://www.dailypictures.info/free-pictures/4089/autism-asshole-disease-moral-jpg

I resent that demotivational picture. Autistic people can be quite kind.:hrmph:

[HippieTrippie]

I resent that demotivational picture. Autistic people can be quite kind.:hrmph:

Sir would you like some fries with your Asbergers?

[The Jitterskull]

Strong


Now they aren't due to immigration std's.

[BungHole]

Sir would you like some fries with your Asbergers?

Nah bitch, onion rings. Get me some mayo too, motha fucka.

[HippieTrippie]

Nah bitch, onion rings. Get me some mayo too, motha fucka.

Mayo costs extra :mad:

[Firemind]

I don't mean to be a jerk. But I don't think this thread belongs here. It should be in General.
Because, your only asking for opinions, not necessarily historical facts with a discussion following.
It seems to general. But I guess it is related. I mean think about it shouldn't the history forum have topics about events from history in which we can discuss then? I only bring up this point for even organization, and it would be great to just click on the history section and learn something you didn't know.

IMO of course.(not that is matters anyhow)

[Daran]

I don't mean to be a jerk. But I don't think this thread belongs here. It should be in General.
Because, your only asking for opinions, not necessarily historical facts with a discussion following.
It seems to general. But I guess it is related. I mean think about it shouldn't the history forum have topics about events from history in which we can discuss then? I only bring up this point for even organization, and it would be great to just click on the history section and learn something you didn't know.

IMO of course.(not that is matters anyhow)

I get where you're coming from, this thread wasn't squarely intended to be an opinion session on the British. I wanted people to discuss historical events related to the British and how these events define our standing on the empire throughout history.

[Vickylala]

I'm Scottish, so resent having our nation tarnished because of the deeds of the English. Although a lot of Americans seem unable to make the distinction, I recently had to explain to an American tourist that they were in fact in Scotland and not England, and that there was a difference between the two. I hope she understood and wasn't stabbed or something.

[Raziel]

East India Company was one of the first great drug cartels.:thumbsup:

Obviously founded by the dutch.
We also had cocaine factories. http://www.viceland.com/blogs/en/2009/10/28/holland-was-the-worlds-biggest-coke-manufacturer/
EDIT: Legally.

[rabbitweed]

I'm Scottish, so resent having our nation tarnished because of the deeds of the English.

Shut the fuck up

After the act of union the Scottish colonised everywhere the English did because the nations of scotland and england ceased to exist.

Half the black and tans were scottish, for example.

Infact, the Irish were colonisers and imperial soldiers as well so they can shut their traps too.

[Snoopy]

Don't be silly, it was British Colonisation; the Scots hardly stood back and told everybody how wrong it was. Anyway, the act of union only occurred when Scotland became bankrupted when it's attempt at colonialism (which they attempted 'cause they were economically weak and needed advantage to keep up with the English) and joined with England as the only feasible option.

You're just as much to blame for colonisation as any English person or anybody else in the UK. Which is of course, none; because very few people alive to do had any part in that period of hideous crimes against humanity.

Scotland shouldn't exist anyway, nor should England and Wales. We are one people, and arbitrary national pettiness that says otherwise needs to GTFO if we're to make any progress as a people.


Does anyone even care what this failed abortion's opinion on whatever is? Crawl back into the donkey vagina you fell out of, you fugly semen covered mutant.

[Former_Member]

Does anyone even care what this failed abortion's opinion on whatever is? Crawl back into the donkey vagina you fell out of, you fugly semen covered mutant.

check your forum Snoopy. You aren't likely to get away with that in here.

[Snoopy]

check your forum Snoopy. You aren't likely to get away with that in here.

Oh and why would that be?

[Yggdrasil]

check your forum Snoopy. You aren't likely to get away with that in here.

Yeah... no....

Scottish people have every right in my opinion to be proud of their national heritage, and it's their call whether or not they want to be a separate nation in the future. Same goes for the Québécois. Personally I think it's rather stupid, but at this point I think I'm just playing devil's advocate to make you whinge

[Pooka]

The British's peak has passed.

[Eridani]

Don't be silly, it was British Colonisation; the Scots hardly stood back and told everybody how wrong it was. Anyway, the act of union only occurred when Scotland became bankrupted when its attempt at colonialism (which they attempted 'cause they were economically weak and needed advantage to keep up with the English) and joined with England as the only feasible option.

You're just as much to blame for colonisation as any English person or anybody else in the UK. Which is of course, none; because very few people alive today had any part in that period of hideous crimes against humanity.

Scotland shouldn't exist anyway, nor should England and Wales. We are one people, and arbitrary national pettiness that says otherwise needs to GTFO if we're to make any progress as a people.

I agree completely with this post.

[Rolf]

Blah Blah

Let Sir Rolf guess... you're English?

[Raptor Ribs]

I'm Scottish, so resent having our nation tarnished because of the deeds of the English. Although a lot of Americans seem unable to make the distinction, I recently had to explain to an American tourist that they were in fact in Scotland and not England, and that there was a difference between the two. I hope she understood and wasn't stabbed or something.

lol just tell them to watch braveheart. Entertaining movies are the best way to get a point across to an ignorant american. Their primary form of education comes from hollywood, so take advantage of that fact.

[TheDarkRodent]

lol just tell them to watch braveheart. Entertaining movies are the best way to get a point across to an ignorant american. Their primary form of education comes from hollywood, so take advantage of that fact.

What would you know about education in America being as you have never lived there.

[Raptor Ribs]

What would you know about education in America being as you have never lived there.

Who says I haven't?

[TheDarkRodent]

Who says I haven't?

We both know you have not. :facepalm:

[Raptor Ribs]

We both know you have not. :facepalm:

And you assume this because...

[TheDarkRodent]

And you assume this because...
:stupid:
Like I already stated, because we both know it is not so.

[Raptor Ribs]

:stupid:
Like I already stated, because we both know it is not so.

And you "know" this for what reasons?

You see right now, I know you're an idiot. If you asked me why I think that, I wouldn't just say "because we both know you're an idiot" although that is true.

I would say its because you make ignorant assumptions and then don't explain your reasoning behind them. See, thats known as a reason and that reasoning leads me to the conclusion that you are an idiot. Maybe you should explain why you don't believe I've been educated in America, assuming you are capable of such a task.

[Former_Member]

Scottish people have every right in my opinion to be proud of their national heritage, and it's their call whether or not they want to be a separate nation in the future. Same goes for the Québécois. Personally I think it's rather stupid, but at this point I think I'm just playing devil's advocate to make you whinge

I don't think any nation has a right to be proud of it's national heritage, considering almost every nation has, on balance, done rather shameless things through the course of history.

I agree though, that they have a democratic right for self-determination. I don't claim they do not, I'm just campaigning for all British peoples to realise they are one and have no valid reason to be separate. If the time comes for a vote on independence (and it will for Scotland, in our lives) I soundly hope it will be defeated for these reasons.

If it isn't, I might emigrate to Scotland 'cause it's politics are far more in line with my own than the rest of the UK.
____

As for the Snoopy thing, I was referring to this:

Does anyone even care what this failed abortion's opinion on whatever is? Crawl back into the donkey vagina you fell out of, you fugly semen covered mutant.

That's not standing up for Scottish rights. It's nothing more than a blatant troll, consisting of an arbitrary personal attack with absolutely no content. As for making me whinge, don't troll your own forums; That's incredibly counter-productive.

[Former_Member]

Let Sir Rolf guess... you're English?

I self-identify as British. I was born in England, as were both my parents. If you could break down ethnicity along those sub-national levels; at a fairly direct level I'd be 3/4 English and 1/4 Irish. As I said in the previous post though, in the event of the UK breaking down; I'd probably leave for Scotland rather than face entrenched Conservative governments here.

The centre (or maybe not even) Left would be dominant in Scotland, which would suit me just fine.

[TheDarkRodent]

And you "know" this for what reasons?

You see right now, I know you're an idiot. If you asked me why I think that, I wouldn't just say "because we both know you're an idiot" although that is true.

I would say its because you make ignorant assumptions and then don't explain your reasoning behind them. See, thats known as a reason and that reasoning leads me to the conclusion that you are an idiot. Maybe you should explain why you don't believe I've been educated in America, assuming you are capable of such a task.

That is the great thing about knowing something to be true, you don't have to explain it to some punk on the internet.

[Rolf]

The centre (or maybe not even) Left would be dominant in Scotland, which would suit me just fine.

Ah, Sir Rolf always thought you were more to the "centre-stupid".

[Retard Synrdome]

They can go fuck off and die.

[Raptor Ribs]

That is the great thing about knowing something to be true, you don't have to explain it to some punk on the internet.

The words of a genius. :rolleyes:

[TheDarkRodent]

The words of a genius. :rolleyes:


Finally, you are starting to get it.

[psycho_8b]

I recently had to explain to an American tourist that they were in fact in Scotland and not England, and that there was a difference between the two. I hope she understood and wasn't stabbed or something.

I'm having a shitty day but this made me laugh hard...Especially the stabbed part! :D

[Yggdrasil]

I don't think any nation has a right to be proud of it's national heritage, considering almost every nation has, on balance, done rather shameless things through the course of history.

Oh stop being such a damn pc thug. Yes, just being born on a piece of soil doesn't validate attachment to it, patriotism is foolish, blah blah.

You know, a few months ago I might have sided on you with this, but lately I've been discovering more and more about my native country. I've learnt I love my roots, my country's traditions, our culture, our society, etc like never before. God I sound like a fag, but stick with me on this one.

At the same time, I've really begun to hate modern American culture, or lack thereof. A sterile country in terms of tradition, a bunch of fucking pricks, fatasses and idiots, no sense of family or common culture, this passive-aggressive pc glossing over everything. My native country isn't perfect, but they try and get by, to better themselves, and they enjoy life. You never see the warm, friendly types of people you see over there here. That kind of mindset doesn't exist.

I really can hardly stand it, though I guess I'm just fuming a bit at the moment. Thank fucking God I'm spending my summer back there. Back to my original point though, I have as of late been really irritable about political correctness and all this bs, and you, my friend, struck a nerve. Let the Scots be proud of their heritage. Fuck, be proud of yours :o

As I said in the previous post though, in the event of the UK breaking down; I'd probably leave for Scotland rather than face entrenched Conservative governments here.

Ah, England being an even greater shithole, just how I like it :thumbsup:

[SHH]

Shut the fuck up

After the act of union the Scottish colonised everywhere the English did because the nations of scotland and england ceased to exist.

Half the black and tans were scottish, for example.

Infact, the Irish were colonisers and imperial soldiers as well so they can shut their traps too.

I know I wasn't. As a citizen of the Irish Republic, I ain't shit to the British.

[rabbitweed]

I know I wasn't. As a citizen of the Irish Republic, I ain't shit to the British.

No, but the fact remains that when Ireland was part of the UK they colonised as much as anybody.

[Raptor Ribs]

I know I wasn't. As a citizen of the Irish Republic, I ain't shit to the British.

Didn't the Irish produce gingers? Those fuckers.

[Raptor Ribs]

No, but the fact remains that when Ireland was part of the UK they colonised as much as anybody.

lol who gives a shit.

[rabbitweed]

lol who gives a shit.

I have spent quite a bit of time in the republic. They like to see themselves as victims. It gets old.

[SHH]

No, but the fact remains that when Ireland was part of the UK they colonised as much as anybody.

Yeah, we killed the most Native Americans :cool:

[Virus]

They can't defeat a bunch of little colonists is my opinion.

[rabbitweed]

They can't defeat a bunch of little colonists is my opinion.

What the hell are you talking about?

[Rolf]

What the hell are you talking about?

Possibly that whole revolutionary war, states Sir Rolf.

[Eridani]

They can't defeat a bunch of little colonists is my opinion.

Meh, is it really worth starting this debate. Calling them a bunch of little colonists really simplifies the whole thing to an absurd level. Anyway I don't want to get into this it's been done before.

[Haiti's Space Agency]

Does anyone actually read these friggin walls of text that Ryan types out?

Normally I don't but I did this time seeing as how he is British and whatnot and it was a pretty good read m8 you should check it out.

[shopping cart for brains]

I was watching a BBC documentary on the American Revolutionary War before, one of the British historians said something like, "Ahhh yes, we seemed to have a bit of a trifle with the Americans". I laughed for a bit, but if you really think about it that's all it was.

Americans lost most of the battles during the revolution for a good reason, the British army was fucking unbelievable. This was the same army that had been conquering Europe for years and was extremely well trained. The British could have won the war, but why? Americans would have been fighting until every single one of them were dead and the British saw this. Why would they completely destroy a colony that they themselves had built? There was no point in winning that war for them, but they could have.

[Rolf]

walloftext

This. And Japan could of conquered the world in WWII, states Sir Rolf.

[shopping cart for brains]

This. And Japan could of conquered the world in WWII, states Sir Rolf.

Unless you were being sarcastic, I don't think so.

Japan had absolutely no oil sources other than the countries it was at war with. They had stockpiled enough to last them about two years. But this is off topic, look into it if you're interested.

[TheDarkRodent]

I was watching a BBC documentary on the American Revolutionary War before, one of the British historians said something like, "Ahhh yes, we seemed to have a bit of a trifle with the Americans". I laughed for a bit, but if you really think about it that's all it was.

Americans lost most of the battles during the revolution for a good reason, the British army was fucking unbelievable. This was the same army that had been conquering Europe for years and was extremely well trained. The British could have won the war, but why? Americans would have been fighting until every single one of them were dead and the British saw this. Why would they completely destroy a colony that they themselves had built? There was no point in winning that war for them, but they could have.

They quit because they were running out of money and they were starting to lose battle after battle. The British spent over 80 million pounds on that lost war which was an obscene amount of money in those days. To put that into perspective in 1780 1 pound was worth about 55 pounds today. So that would be a cost of approximately 440,000,000 or over 1 billion USD.

Although there was not really such a thing as GDP as we know it in 1800 the estimated figures I have located are as follows for the British Empire in 1800.

GDP per capita was roughly 100 pounds

The Population was approximately 8,308,000

Which would give an estimated GDP in 1800 of roughly 830,800,000 GBP

So according to the estimated figures I have located the British empire spent roughly 1/2 years GDP on the American Revolution. Meanwhile they still had to compete with France, Spain, Germany, Holland, Portugal, and other minor players in the colonization game in other parts of North America, Africa, and Asia. The British were beaten the same way America has always won with money.

[Eridani]

The British were beaten the same way America has always won with money.

Not really. If you're into creating single causes for events then the more important one was the declarations of war by France and Spain (and all the aid they gave the Americans). On the face of it you might think the big, bad British should have walked over the colonists, but when you actually look into it, the Americans had all the advantages. Not to mention the thirteen colonies were relatively unimportant, Canada (for the fur trade) and India being far more lucrative for the empire as a whole.

And by the way, aside from a few small expeditions from some of the independent states that used to make up Germany, there was very little German colonisation until midway through the 19th century.

[Slapshot]

Not to mention the thirteen colonies were relatively unimportant.

lol....
http://courses.wcupa.edu/jones/his311/maps/slave-tr.gif

[Eridani]

lol....
http://courses.wcupa.edu/jones/his311/maps/slave-tr.gif

Yeah fair enough, but put it this way; the British Empire reached it's peak after it lost the American colonies. India was FAR more important than anything to do with America.

[Bobitis]

They quit because they were running out of money and they were starting to lose battle after battle. The British spent over 80 million pounds on that lost war which was an obscene amount of money in those days. To put that into perspective in 1780 1 pound was worth about 55 pounds today. So that would be a cost of approximately 440,000,000 or over 1 billion USD.

Although there was not really such a thing as GDP as we know it in 1800 the estimated figures I have located are as follows for the British Empire in 1800.

GDP per capita was roughly 100 pounds

The Population was approximately 8,308,000

Which would give an estimated GDP in 1800 of roughly 830,800,000 GBP

So according to the estimated figures I have located the British empire spent roughly 1/2 years GDP on the American Revolution. Meanwhile they still had to compete with France, Spain, Germany, Holland, Portugal, and other minor players in the colonization game in other parts of North America, Africa, and Asia. The British were beaten the same way America has always won with money.

Not to mention they had to maintain a 3,000 mile supply line across the Atlantic with sailing ships being the pinnacle of transportation. Britain had plenty of other economic interests at the time and continuing a war with America was starting to seem less worth it by the day. In the long run, despite whatever patriotic sentiment I may have from being English, it was better for both countries for America to get its independence and become a trading partner and ally with Britain.

And with regards to the Scotland posts, as I recall the whole reason Scotland and England are part of the same Union today is because of a Scottish king wanting to be king of both countries.

[Eridani]

And with regards to the Scotland posts, as I recall the whole reason Scotland and England are part of the same Union today is because of a Scottish king wanting to be king of both countries.

Do you mean James I? I wouldn't say he "wanted" to be king of both (well he probably did but I don't think that was his main reason), he was king of Scotland and then was crowned King of England, I guess the natural thing was to try and join them. It didn't work though, there was too much opposition and he dropped the idea. It took another hundred years for Scotland to be nearly bankrupted by it's failed attempt at setting up "New Caledonia" in Panama and that led to the Act of Union.

[Bobitis]

Do you mean James I? I wouldn't say he "wanted" to be king of both (well he probably did but I don't think that was his main reason), he was king of Scotland and then was crowned King of England, I guess the natural thing was to try and join them. It didn't work though, there was too much opposition and he dropped the idea. It took another hundred years for Scotland to be nearly bankrupted by it's failed attempt at setting up "New Caledonia" in Panama and that led to the Act of Union.

True but the Union of the Crowns was still in effect by then (with an interlude for the Civil War and some initial problems during Charles II's reign). The countries were indeed separate in terms of legislation and such but with a shared monarch.

You could argue that James was more an English king than a Scottish king, he only visited Scotland once or twice I believe after becoming king of both countries.

In the end it failed because neither country wanted to be a part of the other, more so Scotland. The English parliament demonstrated how much more power it had than the Scottish one as the members opposed James' plans, which was a little surprising to James. Scotland particularly did not want to go the way Ireland had gone in 1601 despite James' assurances that it would be a union akin to the union with Wales.

He (with the help of both parliaments) did lay a lot of the groundwork towards the union today, gaining large amounts of land around Ulster as well as setting down various bits of legislation that would be picked up and expanded on in 1707. He also established the concept of Britishness, the people on the plantations around Ulster considered themselves British and while putting themselves as either Scottish or English first, people from both countries started to class themselves as British especially as the Empire started to take off. Scotland was also using the Union Flag, albeit a decidedly Scottish version of it, during the 100 years between James I and the Act of Union.

[Slave of the Beast]

I dislike the British.

I don't think any nation has a right to be proud of it's national heritage, considering almost every nation has, on balance, done rather shameless things through the course of history.

Sounds like you dislike everyone, you politically correct kommie fag.

[Launchpad]

Ah the Brits...always controversial.

I'm going to have to take the polemic approach. The Boyne, Cromwell and his genocide, Mad King George, Culloden, Forced Acts of Union, the Marcher Barons, the slave trade...not to mention this centuries Bloody Sundays, Thatcher's neoliberalism, breaking the unions, and riding the imperialist coattails of the Americans to gain back some of their former 'glory' in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Lots of blood spilled at British hands at the behest of British policy. They've been the bully on the block for a long, long time.

I for one am the glad the immigrants are sticking it to those huns in their own country. Look at toothless they are now.

[Haiti's Space Agency]

They have a shite football team.

[Eridani]

They have a shite football team.

True :(.