DIY Flare?

[DarkSkye]

Hey guys, i hope some one the knowledgeable people from BB migrated here from &T.


anywho, I need know how to create a flare. yes, there are plenty of people posting vids online of how to create such things with a soda can or whatnot.


here's the kicker. It has to be roughly spherical, and able to have layers.


Basically, part of my senior exhibition (for me to be able to get my BS) I need to roughly simulate a dying star.

I know how to make colored flame, thats the easy part. I just need to know how to make spherical, multilayered flare out of stuff i can buy OUTSIDE of a chemistry supplier.


any help would be greatly appreciated

-Chris

[Hydroponichronic]

Do you need to be able to launch the thing out of something? How many layers? What colors? How long do you want it to burn for? If you're launching, do you want your propellant in the tube or in the shell? Would you consider something that looked more like a rocket than a sphere? I mention this last one because it would be much easier to construct.

Anywho: Propellants/flash mixes: Slow, hot oxidizer, burns white: Ammonium Nitrate. Slow, hot oxidizer, burns red: Strontium Nitrate. Fast burning oxidizer, burns purple: Potassium Chlorate (this one's kinda dangerous, be warned if you decide to use it). Fast burning oxidizer, burns white:Potassium Nitrate. All oxidizers get mixed with fuels. My personal favorite is powdered (aka confectioner's) sugar. Alternatively, you might need some aluminum powder.

So post some response and someone here can tell you how to make/buy all of the above. I assure you, they're very easy to come by.

[DarkSkye]

Do you need to be able to launch the thing out of something? How many layers? What colors? How long do you want it to burn for? If you're launching, do you want your propellant in the tube or in the shell? Would you consider something that looked more like a rocket than a sphere? I mention this last one because it would be much easier to construct.

Anywho: Propellants/flash mixes: Slow, hot oxidizer, burns white: Ammonium Nitrate. Slow, hot oxidizer, burns red: Strontium Nitrate. Fast burning oxidizer, burns purple: Potassium Chlorate (this one's kinda dangerous, be warned if you decide to use it). Fast burning oxidizer, burns white:Potassium Nitrate. All oxidizers get mixed with fuels. My personal favorite is powdered (aka confectioner's) sugar. Alternatively, you might need some aluminum powder.

So post some response and someone here can tell you how to make/buy all of the above. I assure you, they're very easy to come by.

3 (technically 4 layers, but the center has to be non-burning, so im thinking a rock)

the colors i already know and possess: red: strontium chloride, yellow: table salt, white: epsom salt.

I do not have to launch it, it just needs to sit there. All i need to know is how i can FORM the actual layers. IE, i need a flammable mixture that hopefully starts out as a liquid or aqueous solution that i can let dry with a fuse in it.

Oh, and it has to be roughly spherical :(

[asilentbob]

What kind of outside diameter are you going for here? Because most star compositions burn slow... Meaning you would ignite one side of your star and it would slowly burn all the way around until it reached the other side... The color changes would be FAR from uniform... And really there would be a shitload of smoke depending on outer diameter and total amount of composition. In fireworks, like aerial shells all sides of stars are ignited at the same time.

Avoid ammonium nitrate and strontium chloride, both are quite hygroscopic. Though if you already have strontium chloride you might be able to get it to work if you dry it thoroughly, then incorporate it into a star composition having some kind of plastic binder like PVC, parlon, saran, or some organic resin like shellac and "wet" it all down with a non-water solvent... Like toluene... though toluene might evaporate too slowly to be convenient.

http://members.shaw.ca/gryphon223/PFP/
Look through the star compositions here and see what all you can do. I'd recommend that you ask a chemistry professor if he can help you out by letting you use some of the chemicals for this. It might be a long shot. Depends.

RED:
I'd recommend that you either buy one or a few road flares and try to re-purpose them for one layer. They are almost always just strontium nitrate, potassium nitrate, sulfur, sawdust, and a small amount of some sort of binder like a wax. Or you could get strontium nitrate from a professor.
Heres some flare compostions:
http://www.spiegl.org/rocket/flare/flare.html

YELLOW:
I'd suggest making some sort of basic potassium nitrate/sugar mix, then adding salt. Binder and solvent are up to you. Or make some sodium nitrate based composition making sure that the sodium nitrate is dried throughly and the solvent/binder system is selected to keep water out of the layer.

WHITE:
Just normal potassium nitrate/sugar smoke mix has a whiteish/purpleish flame. You could go with that... Perhaps adding some fine aluminum... or antimony trisulfide for more of a white... Or use some other composition.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EMoutL3ON8
Star roller. Rollin' stars.
You can do the same with just one "star" by hand in a bucket or something. But it would be slow an a pain in the ass. Basically you have a spray bottle with your solvent in it, you very lightly dampen, not wet the surface of the star with your solvent, then add in some very fine and dry star compoistion and roll it around. The composition should stick somewhat to the surface of the star and start to form a layer. Repeat. BUT at some point you have to let the star completely dry out before continuing.

The tricky part is keeping sodium out of the other 2 layers though... Else it will probably ruin your other colors... Are you trying to have it burn yellow, then red, then white? If so I would recommend "rolling" a small bit of the white layer first onto some core of some kind, letting it dry, then repeating until that layer is thick enough. Then rolling the red ontop of that... though if you go from road flares your going to have to fingure out some way to apply it by hand and have it all stick... THEN after all that had dried I'd paint over both of those layers with a thin layer of NC laquer or something, THEN roll the yellow layer on top of that.

What kind of deadline do you have for this?

Honestly I'd say its too much of a hassle to do like this. Just make a normal stick flare and hand press the compositions in increments.

[alex333]

its not the best answer, and im not sure how detailed your project has to be, but the simplist solution may just be to rig up some storebought fireworks. you could mount them inside a homemade spherical cage type device, and rig the wicks so that the colors would go off in the right order.

[Leshrac]

http://i42.tinypic.com/23h7o6o.gif

[Von Bass]

Sounds like you want a gigantic star. Problematically, these can self extinguish themselves, especially if they're not flying through the air, and if they haven't been ignited on all sides by a burst charge. As asilentbob points out, flare compositions tend to burn fairly slowly, its more like a very bright glowing.

Are you going to be doing this at night? It would really be the best way of getting a visible & impressive result... It would also have the advantage that, quite frankly, you could just make a tubular composition with three layers, and you really wouldn't be able to tell the difference between what would essentially be a weak walled fountain & a ball as you mention. If you really must go with daubing it on the outside of a vaugely spherical item, you want to be using a 'binder' in your composition; I would recommend the addition of 5% gum arabic or dextrin.

Dextrin would probably be best, due to the fact you can acquire it via simply toasting corn flour in an oven :)

Oh, and if you use strontium chloride, you'll more likely get a pink colour, and will have to use a fairly strong oxidiser, perhaps a chlorate over a perchlorate.

[scovegner]

What about an opaque ball with a cylindrical flare at the back of it? Still appears round and glowing nice and bright ...

[DarkSkye]

I am running into a problem....

im using 91% alcohol, and have tried both epson and table salt (for white and yellow fire, respectively), but for some reason, neither of them will readily dissolve. My wife is paranoid about fire, so the most I can heat the alcohol without her making me sleep on the couch is setting a bottle in a tub of hot water.


any solutions to help this stuff dissolve?

[Hydroponichronic]

I am running into a problem....

im using 91% alcohol, and have tried both epson and table salt (for white and yellow fire, respectively), but for some reason, neither of them will readily dissolve. My wife is paranoid about fire, so the most I can heat the alcohol without her making me sleep on the couch is setting a bottle in a tub of hot water.


any solutions to help this stuff dissolve?
Sorry buddy, alcy isn't near polar enough to dissolve even minuscule quantities of ionic compounds (salt, epsom, etc). The only other thing I can think of that would do the trick is anhydrous ammonia (liquid), but something tells me, that's not in your range. How long do you need this thing to burn for? I just realized it'll be hard to get this thing to a) burn evenly for any significant amount of time or b) hold a spherical shape at the temps you'd be talking about. At first I was thinking a wax casting would work, but then I realized it would melt instantly.

Let me see if I can guess what you're going for: White burn first, then yellow, then red. I'd say use aluminum powder for all three, then ammonium nitrate for the first oxidizer (white), strontium nitrate (yellow) for the second, and finally strontium nitrate (red) for the last. As for how to get it to hold it's shape, maybe if you mixed 2 part epoxy with the finely ground and mixed powders, you could make a "paste" that could be spread onto your rock at the center. If you put the "red paste" on first, let it solidify, yellow paste second, ect, you might have a solid, sphere-ish thing that burned and held it's shape. I think the epoxy is all organic compounds (epoxides, or some such), implying flammability to a certain degree, provided you include a little extra oxidizer. Oh, and you'll probably have to light this with a blowtorch, it'll be fairly inert.

[Von Bass]

That's not how you want to do it man... You don't want to be trying to make a solution, you want to making a very thick paste, some people use a 50:50 mix of alcohol and water in a mister bottle, only applying VERY small amounts, just enough to get it to stick together.

If its white, yellow, red, go for aluminium powder, then charcoal, then strontium chloride. Ammonium nitrate probably isn't the best of ideas, stick with nitrates or perchlorates.

[asilentbob]

IMO Scovenger's idea seems the best thus far. A clearish/milky ball at night with a 3 color flare a bit behind it. At night looking at it from the right angle the ball would appear to glow with whatever color the flare was on.

If you need to simulate it decreasing in size maybe make it be a balloon and slowly let air out of it?

Just make sure the flare is far enough away from it and isn't going to be hit with slag or anything... maybe put some glass or something in between them as well.

[scovegner]

IMO Scovenger's idea seems the best thus far. A clearish/milky ball at night with a 3 color flare a bit behind it. At night looking at it from the right angle the ball would appear to glow with whatever color the flare was on.

If you need to simulate it decreasing in size maybe make it be a balloon and slowly let air out of it?

Just make sure the flare is far enough away from it and isn't going to be hit with slag or anything... maybe put some glass or something in between them as well.

Would also have to find some way of letting the smoke out in a reasonable way too ..

[The Savage]

http://members.shaw.ca/gryphon223/PFP/
Look through the star compositions here and see what all you can do. I'd recommend that you ask a chemistry professor if he can help you out by letting you use some of the chemicals for this. It might be a long shot. Depends.

I know the guy who runs that site from years and years ago, Anyone know how to contact him? I've sent an e-mail but last update was 2001 so it's probably dead.