Armor, Machetes and Sniper Rifles: The Guatemala Thread; Redux

[The Swede]

Basically, the idea here is to discuss the numerous ways in which we can all arrive at Guatemala (A Central American nation wrecked by violence and underdevelopment), depose the current, corrupt, an left- leaning government, and establish a democracy modeled after what the Founding Fathers had in mind.

Guatemala is a democracy currently, but the people are suffering under the daily onslaught of organized crime and corrupt, inefficient governments under the control of the organized crime movements.

Last week a new wave of violence hit the country. Kidnappings skyrocketed and armed robberies have quadrupled. Now they're shooting people first and robbing them after.
Oh, and the gangs have started planting bombs on buses in retaliation for the owners of the transportation companies not paying them ransom money. Its starting to develop into a real war, except the government is literally letting the criminals walk and throwing anyone who dares attempt self- defense into jail.



Leader(s):
LavaRed - Commanding Officer
The Swede - Chief Recruiting Officer

Members:
The English Gentleman
Groundhog whacka
blue_monday
Mephistos Minion
Walrus Jones
Ghst0p
The Golden Manatee - Pilot
Reyin
Crashwangdoodle
Tetcht Seckum
Random_Looney
KY_Forever
crazzyass
Lord_Awesome
The Savage
Son of Liberty
tasm - Artillery expert
Mike Hunt
supperrfreek
PROJECT PAT
Unwanted Prostate Exam
Tyrael
Mr.Happy
Frackle
BigBalla

[The English Gentleman]

I'll sign up, I'll be a anschutz (in .22) wielding deadly and silent killer. Oh side jobs will be logistics using my battered up hilux, and wining and dining wealthy investors, while transporting them in the merc s class I hold the keys too.

edit: looks like the cash has fallen through, it will be a cz in 17hmr:(

[Warped Mindless]

Glad to see this thread again.

[Groundhog whacka]

GOG,the thread that refuses to die! :machine_gun:

[blue_monday]

GOG,the thread that refuses to die! :machine_gun:

hey, good to see you made it

[Mephistos Minion]

I'll throw in 2 years in the infantry and rifle/pistol training since I was 6.

[LavaRed]

Hi guys. sorry I havent been on much but my home connection refuses to load zoklets for some reason. So am logging from another place while I straighten that. But I´m still alive and breathing for those that wondered.
Glad to see this thread survive. Thanks Swede, you get a promotion in the GOG for that, as soon as we have a rank system :P.

[Freelance Tax Collector]

Hi guys. sorry I havent been on much but my home connection refuses to load zoklets for some reason. So am logging from another place while I straighten that.

Tried a proxy?

[Carbonbased]

Why not give a recap of the mission of GOG since this is a new site and not every one knows the deal? :D

[The Swede]

I don't have any of the text saved, i hope Lava does, we'll see if he's got it.

[Walrus Jones]

Please elaborate on the mission of this, since I really can't go back to The Temple and check what the fuck you're talking about.

[LavaRed]

Basically, the idea here is to discuss the numerous ways in which we can all arrive at Guatemala (A Central American nation wracked by violence and underdevelopment), depose the current, corrupt, an left- leaning government, and establish a democracy modeled after what the Founding Fathers had in mind.
Sounds good no?

EDIT: Guatemala is a democracy currently, but the people are suffering under the daily onslaught of organized crime and corrupt, inefficient governments under the control of the organized crime movements.

[Walrus Jones]

Aha. Sounds lovely, and similar to my idea of overthrowing Belize. But I'll do this.

[Ghst0p]

I'll sign up if you can wait until summer '10 (I don't turn 18 until October) and arrange transportation. Currently I don't have anything useful but a few basic supplies, but I have a shotgun I am hoping I could trade someone an accurate rifle for (I am a good shot). I am not very big, but with some training I would probably be the most athletic of everyone, already have a lot of dexterity, and am half Mexican so I can look semi-local (there are a surprising amount of Asians in Mexico/South America).

If we are successful and are not labeled as terrorists (you have better be right about there being money because Capitalism won't work without it, and the United States frowns upon Socialism [tempting to be another Che Guevara, though]), I will need to get back home too.

[Walrus Jones]

I'll sign up, I'll be a anschutz (in .22) wielding deadly and silent killer. Oh side jobs will be logistics using my battered up hilux, and wining and dining wealthy investors, while transporting them in the merc s class I hold the keys too.

Something about all that seems fake.

[The Atmoic Fishy]

just everything after the .22 is a lie but i got the same gun verry nice and verry acurate

[The Swede]

Anschütz are very good rifles, shot with one of 'em in Härnösand last summer, it was all good.

Okay LavaRed, if you could offer transportation i could bring a Nissan Kingcab 87 4wd Diesel, a Winchester Model70 XTR, a Savage combi shotgun, some BDU's (M/90, M/65 and DPM), camo net and sandbags... I may get my hand on some combat vests and maaayyybeee one AK4b (google it).
When i think of it, i could maybe get some flak vests too.

XTR: 6.5x55 "mauser"
Savage: .222rem, smoothbore 20ga
AK4b: .308 NATO

I've also got some random stuff that may be of intrest.

[The English Gentleman]

just everything after the .22 is a lie but i got the same gun verry nice and verry acurate

Not got the gun yet, still trying to get my FAC through. The S class merc is all true, with my dad in New Zealand for another couple of months I can provide a fleet of mercs, right down to some G wagons and a couple of non working G wagons for spares.

[The Golden Manatee]

Well, you can sign me up! I have experience flying small aircraft, mainly ultralights, even though I don't have one of my own. I guess I could just "borrow" one ;). I could try to get a larger aircraft, I think the controls are mostly the same, but I don't have a pilots license. I'm hopefully getting a sport pilot certificate here soon though. I also know a small bit about guerilla warfare and producing munitions.

[Reyin]

We need new recruits!

Howdy! I'd like to sign up for liberating the oppressed! It is the responsibility of concerned citizens to help our neighbors in need. I've been shooting since I could safely handle a firearm, I've done some competitive shooting and a bit of combat training as well.

I can't say I have great transportation, but what I lack in that I make up for with the firepower I can bring with me. I have a Remington m700 in 300WM with a Burris scope, an M4 with an Eotech sight on it, and a Styer STG58 (unfortunately in semi-auto.) For a sidearm I have a Kimber Gold Match II 1911 with which I'm proficient. I have a few other weapons people can use if they need them; a G3 with standard iron sights and an SKS and speaking of that I have 800 rounds of armor piercing 7.62x39 in sealed tins. I have various cartridges in .308 as well: Incendiary, frangible, and steel core armor piercing, all of these were hand reloaded as well.

[reggie_love]

I can't say I have great transportation, but what I lack in that I make up for with the firepower I can bring with me. I have a Remington m700 in 300WM with a Burris scope, an M4 with an Eotech sight on it, and a Styer STG58 (unfortunately in semi-auto.) For a sidearm I have a Kimber Gold Match II 1911 with which I'm proficient. I have a few other weapons people can use if they need them; a G3 with standard iron sights and an SKS and speaking of that I have 800 rounds of armor piercing 7.62x39 in sealed tins. I have various cartridges in .308 as well: Incendiary, frangible, and steel core armor piercing, all of these were hand reloaded as well.

Pics or it doesn't exist.

[Crashwangdoodle]

Im under 18 and without guns but quite an expert with knives... I figure i would be more of a deception/super-spy kind of guy. So like people wouldnt expect me. And for transport i can get a gwiz (wtf) and an e class...

[Tetcht Seckum]

I would like to enlist, as leader of the Great White Imperial Cavalry, or some other such pompous and chivalrous sounding regiment.

We need big hats, swords and colorful uniforms. And handlebar moustaches. :D

[Crashwangdoodle]

definetly handlebar moustaches...And we need huge feathers coming out of out hats

[Tetcht Seckum]

definetly handlebar moustaches...And we need huge feathers coming out of out hats

Indeed! And revolver side arms- old empire building weblys in .455.

And no horses under 16 hands tall. This is necessary to ensure that we are more easily enabled to ride into masses of people and slice away with our sabers.

We should look to the Don Cossack people as a model of fine Cavalry specimen.

[Freelance Tax Collector]

Okay, here's the deal. In addition to the rest of the practical logistics, one of our first and foremost considerations is that we need a battle standard, and a rallying cry. I also think we need some kind of artistically simple icon for our movement. It needs to be subtle enough that people can covertly paint it on their fence for example, to show support for the movement, but unique enough so it doesn't just look like random graffiti. It should have some basis on something that already exists and is common to the area, so enemy HUMINT doesn't just figure out that buildings with it sprayed on the side are actually safe houses.

So we need someone who is culturally familiar with our AO, and is also artistically inclined to come up with something. Remember, keep it low profile.

[Random_Looney]

I want a jaguar in the symbol. It blends numerological signicifance (number seven) of Christianity with the culture of the Mayan and Olmec civilizations, all coalescing into the Guatemalan nation of today.

Plus, jaguars are badass. Who wouldn't want a jaguar patch on their cammies?

The jaguar is a sneaky hunter. How best to describe a guerrilla fighter? Also, I blatantly googled this and liked it ;

"Jaguar stories also teach that power, by itself, is not enough.

Three jaguars were dying of hunger but didn't want to look for food. Rabbit asked, "Why are you complaining so, my friends? What of your claws and fangs?"

The jaguars protested against the work of hunting.


Rabbit offered to carry the jaguars into the forest if they would climb into a net. Once they were in the net, rabbit tied it shut, then found a long green guava stick and beat the jaguars. "You are built like great hunters, but you are lazy beasts.""

[Reyin]

Pics or it doesn't exist.

Yarg, you're going to make me bring out the digital camera eh. I guess I can do this, I'll post pic(s) tonight after I finish cooking.

[Freelance Tax Collector]

A rabbit beating three jaguars with a guava stick is like Cartman beating the other two on the boat with a wiffle bat.

[Reyin]

Here ya go Reggie:

Taken on the terribly ugly carpet in the basement.
http://i40.tinypic.com/2u5ur07.jpg
http://i44.tinypic.com/29ehk7k.jpg
http://i40.tinypic.com/10ns3k7.jpg
http://i44.tinypic.com/anndy1.jpg

[reggie_love]

Here ya go Reggie:

Taken on the terribly ugly carpet in the basement.
http://i40.tinypic.com/2u5ur07.jpg
http://i44.tinypic.com/29ehk7k.jpg
http://i40.tinypic.com/10ns3k7.jpg
http://i44.tinypic.com/anndy1.jpg

Well shit...

Now I feel inadequate.

[LavaRed]

Ok. Reyin, you're in. Kudos on the swiss FAL. And all the rest of the stuff. :fap:
R_L, love the jaguar patch idea. I'll design it later.

[Walrus Jones]

IDEA: Belize.

REASON: They are even more corrupted, they (to some degree) speak English, they have untapped oil reserves, and when we're done taking it over, tourism provides huge base capital for a capitalist economy.

There are less people to deal with. Consider this: Guatemala has 13 million people. Belize, with less people than Guatemala City, has 320 thousand people. While I whole-heartedly believe that Zoklet could take over Guatemala, I'm saying that it would be easier, more profitable, and better overall if we changed to Belize.

DIGRESSION: But I respect your ideas. Crashwangdoodle, I too have no guns. I also have no military experience. I have no certification to do anything.

But, I am a survivalist of sorts. I can tell you how to farm mangoes, sugarcane, and marijuana at your forts. I can tell you how to build a tree fort in under a day. I can tell you which parts of a person are nutritious to eat, if it comes to that.

Therefore, I express my rank as wilderness guide. Yes, like that creepy guy with the ponytail who works at the rapid adventures place.

[LavaRed]

IDEA: Belize.

REASON: They are even more corrupted, they (to some degree) speak English, they have untapped oil reserves, and when we're done taking it over, tourism provides huge base capital for a capitalist economy.

There are less people to deal with. Consider this: Guatemala has 13 million people. Belize, with less people than Guatemala City, has 320 thousand people. While I whole-heartedly believe that Zoklet could take over Guatemala, I'm saying that it would be easier, more profitable, and better overall if we changed to Belize.

DIGRESSION: But I respect your ideas. Crashwangdoodle, I too have no guns. I also have no military experience. I have no certification to do anything.

But, I am a survivalist of sorts. I can tell you how to farm mangoes, sugarcane, and marijuana at your forts. I can tell you how to build a tree fort in under a day. I can tell you which parts of a person are nutritious to eat, if it comes to that.

Therefore, I express my rank as wilderness guide. Yes, like that creepy guy with the ponytail who works at the rapid adventures place.


I have gone over your proposal and I am sorry to decline. The reason is simple: Britsh Commonwealth. If you try to intervene in Belize, you'll have them over you in minutes. Think Falkland Islands style. We know because Guatemala made a couple of lukewarm attempts to retake Belize in the 60's or 70's (for those of you who didn't know, Britain acquired Belize from Guatemala through some shady diplomatic technicalities); Anyways, that's why Belize is not feasible. Especially when a Guatemalan is leading the op. It wouldn't look good.
And I'd prefer to fix up my country first. Then we can make a corporation to run the government, and only after it works can we offer to outsource the governments of other countries. Talk about increasing your market share.

[Carbonbased]

Question!
How are the guns laws in your country compare to the US?
Could a non citizen purchase arms easily?
Are automatics readily available? Is there a law concerning drop in auto sears?
Also how would your government feel about weapons testing (explosive munitions)?

One more thing, what kind of military force can the Guatemala government muster? In terms of numbers and equipment

[5024L]

Would you all need someone with a knowledge of GIS, you know, to like help you plan attacks?

[LavaRed]

Definitely, the more knowledge the better. Count yourself in.

And Carbonbased, the gun laws here allow no explosives or anything full auto. Registration of all weapons is mandatory, and a carrying license is an aditional privilege.

Update on Guatemala:

Last week a new wave of violence hit the country. Kidnappings skyrocketed and armed robberies have quadrupled. Now they're shooting people first and robbing them after.
Oh, and the gangs have started planting bombs on buses in retaliation for the owners of the transportation companies not paying them ransom money. Its starting to develop into a real war, except the government is literally letting the criminals walk and throwing anyone who dares attempt self- defense into jail.

[crazzyass]

Lava, I can provide considerable resources, financially and logistically. PM me for details. I also have some experience and connections that may prove useful.



A few other things that need to be addressed...

a.) Training. Everyone here who wants to help need to purchase a rifle and a sidearm at minimum, and start practicing. I assume most of you live in the US. Purchase those two items and begin practicing daily. You'll also need to start working out. Nothing too fancy, stick with running, push-ups, and crunches. You'll also want to start gathering any and all military/survival equipment you can. Surplus military stores are a Godsend. NBC masks, Load-bearing vests, and BDU's are all good choices, though I'm sure we'll need civvies, too. I suggest the masks as a worst case scenario, but I don't believe the government has any of those weapons. Regardless, it doesn't hurt.

b.) Save money. Put aside a small amount and save up for the op. Self-explanatory.

c.) Lava, start talking to people that you know you can absolutely trust about this plan. We'll need as many natives as we can possily get, their personal contacts and knowledge of the AO will be invaluable. Only talk to people you know you can trust. How many people do you think you could gather? How many of them are armed or can be easily armed? How many have training or experience with combat?

d.) Lava, identify a general or other military officer that is well-liked and may have reason to dissent with the current government. The higher in rank the better. We basically need someone charismatic, who is in the public eye, that can be identified as someone with credibility. Their loyalty can be decisive to victory.


Also, in your PM, can you give me details about your current arsenal, financial resources, contacts, everything. Any information can be helpful. I understand it is all personal information, but I'll be better able to assess the situation when I have all of the details.

[LavaRed]

Lava, I can provide considerable resources, financially and logistically. PM me for details. I also have some experience and connections that may prove useful.



A few other things that need to be addressed...

a.) Training. Everyone here who wants to help need to purchase a rifle and a sidearm at minimum, and start practicing. I assume most of you live in the US. Purchase those two items and begin practicing daily. You'll also need to start working out. Nothing too fancy, stick with running, push-ups, and crunches. You'll also want to start gathering any and all military/survival equipment you can. Surplus military stores are a Godsend. NBC masks, Load-bearing vests, and BDU's are all good choices, though I'm sure we'll need civvies, too. I suggest the masks as a worst case scenario, but I don't believe the government has any of those weapons. Regardless, it doesn't hurt.

b.) Save money. Put aside a small amount and save up for the op. Self-explanatory.

c.) Lava, start talking to people that you know you can absolutely trust about this plan. We'll need as many natives as we can possily get, their personal contacts and knowledge of the AO will be invaluable. Only talk to people you know you can trust. How many people do you think you could gather? How many of them are armed or can be easily armed? How many have training or experience with combat?

d.) Lava, identify a general or other military officer that is well-liked and may have reason to dissent with the current government. The higher in rank the better. We basically need someone charismatic, who is in the public eye, that can be identified as someone with credibility. Their loyalty can be decisive to victory.


Also, in your PM, can you give me details about your current arsenal, financial resources, contacts, everything. Any information can be helpful. I understand it is all personal information, but I'll be better able to assess the situation when I have all of the details.


Is a retired General good enough?

[Lord_Awesome]

Oh yeah, I came to zoklet after the death of &T, god rest it's soul, mostly to look for this thread. I joined in the original thread as a member of the assassin team under Groundhog Whacka, who I see is here as well. I will not relist my skills as that seems unnecessary, hopefully someone has a saved copy of the threads. However since then I have developed a few more skills most revolving around sabotage, weapons of biological nature, and I look bad ass in a turban when it's done so that back part hangs down and shades your neck especially when paired with a good pair of sunglasses. I'm also ordering a parts kit for a .223 AK krinkov in the next 2 or 3 minutes. WOO!!! I love the Jaguar idea, b/c I like jaguars, and leopards, and tigers, and most other big cats, but I digress.

[Random_Looney]

Unless you've worked in a sanctioned lab, you don't have skills related to bio weapons. Even if you did, biological weaponry would be useless.

As would most chemical weaponry in this case, which makes me sad.

[Lord_Awesome]

Yeah, I figured it'd be close to useless, however many others (back on &T) posted skills that would not necessarily be of particular use.

[Random_Looney]

Agreed, however the use of biological weapons would be counter-productive.

[Carbonbased]

I would agree with this, its difficult to win hearts and minds by spreading disease, its kinda like setting a fire in a city, once its burning its hard as hell to control.

[Random_Looney]

Trust me- it's impossible to control. This is from a first world nation with arguably the most powerful government and some of the best technology on the planet.

[Lord_Awesome]

Yeah, I get that it wouldn't be a good thing to use, pathogens have this nasty tendency to spread, and it's against international law (I believe), however it was suggested we have gas masks to be ready against nbc threats. I think we should have some people who have as much knowledge of these threats as possible. (I admit my own knowledge of these is rudimentary at best) to assist in the unlikely scenario that these weapons are used against us. To sum up: us using nbc = :(, being prepared just in case they're used against us = :cool:

[KingOfAll]

however it was suggested we have gas masks to be ready against nbc threats.

While I doubt "chemical" as in NBC weapons would be used, Riot Control Agents (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riot_control_agent) would be a much greater risk that gas masks would help against.

EDIT:

Speaking entirely in the abstract, what would the best thing for someone who lived in a area where the use and ownership of guns was _heavily_ restricted to do?

[Random_Looney]

it's against international law (I believe),
It is, as are most chemical warfare agents and their precursors.

I think we should have some people who have as much knowledge of these threats as possible.

Some would consider myself one such individual.

[Lord_Awesome]

Some would consider myself one such individual.

Sounds good.

EDIT:
How heavily restricted KOA? Like no possible way for you to get them, or just a lot of paperwork?

[crazzyass]

Is a retired General good enough?

Is he a popular one? Among the people and troops?


Because we'll need someone who will command instant respect among both groups, and inspire at least some soldiers to join the coup.

[LavaRed]

Is he a popular one? Among the people and troops?


Because we'll need someone who will command instant respect among both groups, and inspire at least some soldiers to join the coup.

The military is not popular with the people. However, the guy I have in mind is very popular with the troops. The downside is that he is on the run from justice, because he got framed for some war crime he didn't commit by other, corrupt generals.
However, I do think he could be easily found through contacts in Intelligence.

[Freelance Tax Collector]

The military is not popular with the people. However, the guy I have in mind is very popular with the troops. The downside is that he is on the run from justice, because he got framed for some war crime he didn't commit by other, corrupt generals.
However, I do think he could be easily found through contacts in Intelligence.

So will it come down to bribery or coercion?

[LavaRed]

So will it come down to bribery or coercion?

No, I know this guy from when I was a kid, he ought to remember me. I think he'll be pleased with the idea: He's one of the few honest military men we had.
I haven't seen him in some 10 years tho, so he may have changed...

[Freelance Tax Collector]

Will finding him come down to bribery or coercion?

[illuminatikiller]

How would I get my AK to Guatemala? Take it apart and send a few packages?

[crazzyass]

The military is not popular with the people. However, the guy I have in mind is very popular with the troops. The downside is that he is on the run from justice, because he got framed for some war crime he didn't commit by other, corrupt generals.
However, I do think he could be easily found through contacts in Intelligence.

Please try and contact him. He sounds like a good choice.

I'll try and get some of my other assets in line.

[LavaRed]

How would I get my AK to Guatemala? Take it apart and send a few packages?

Don't bother. It's probably easier to acquire a select-fire Russian one with a milled receiver down here.
If you don't mind the exterior being a bit banged up that is...

Finding him would probably come down to some bribery and the old school network.

[Freelance Tax Collector]

Finding him would probably come down to some bribery and the old school network.

Good, good. Less outsourcing that way.

[Lord_Awesome]

Hey Lava, what does a select fire, Russian one with a milled receiver, and banged up exterior go for down there? I remember in the old threads, or somewhere you talked about Glocks going for astronomical amounts, IIRC. I know you have quite a collection but how available are weapons like RPGs, mortars, etc? Does the Guatemalan army/drug people have helicopters (weaponized, not just for transport), do we need to consider tanks or airplanes as problems? This may have been covered in the old totse threads, but I don't remember if they were or not. (Speaking of which, is there an archive of the threads as of when totse closed down? I have been able to see some archives thanks to google, but then for a while it wouldn't show them.)

[crazzyass]

Hey Lava, what does a select fire, Russian one with a milled receiver, and banged up exterior go for down there? I remember in the old threads, or somewhere you talked about Glocks going for astronomical amounts, IIRC. I know you have quite a collection but how available are weapons like RPGs, mortars, etc? Does the Guatemalan army/drug people have helicopters (weaponized, not just for transport), do we need to consider tanks or airplanes as problems? This may have been covered in the old totse threads, but I don't remember if they were or not. (Speaking of which, is there an archive of the threads as of when totse closed down? I have been able to see some archives thanks to google, but then for a while it wouldn't show them.)

If we execute the operation properly, tanks and helicoptors shouldn't be a concern. Properly executed coups using guerrilla warfare will avoid those confrontations all-together.

However, RPGs wouldn't be a bad asset to have on hand regardless.

[Lord_Awesome]

Yeah, I hope we don't have to use them, and if we do this correctly, it'll be less likely. But, better to be ready to deal with it, than not. Also, as Lava seemed to describe it, there are heavily armed drug lords, there are possibilities of problems still after a coup, that was part of my question, whether he thought any of them might have armed helicopters.

[crazzyass]

Yeah, I hope we don't have to use them, and if we do this correctly, it'll be less likely. But, better to be ready to deal with it, than not. Also, as Lava seemed to describe it, there are heavily armed drug lords, there are possibilities of problems still after a coup, that was part of my question, whether he thought any of them might have armed helicopters.

Ah, I see what you're saying now. Hopefully they don't, but if they do we should have enough influence over the military in the event of a successful coup, that we would also have our own helicopters and anti-aircraft capabilities in place.

[The Savage]

Just letting you know me and my cat are both still in, I've been training him up for body disposal...as a result he's now *ahem* slightly over weight but that just means he'll be able to get through TWO drug barrons a day now :) .

[LavaRed]

Just letting you know me and my cat are both still in, I've been training him up for body disposal...as a result he's now *ahem* slightly over weight but that just means he'll be able to get through TWO drug barrons a day now :) .

Hey! its good too see you mate. :D We were beggining to think you weren't coming.
Welcome to our new home.

[The Swede]

Shall we bring this shit up again?

[talonner]

Unless you've worked in a sanctioned lab, you don't have skills related to bio weapons. Even if you did, biological weaponry would be useless.

As would most chemical weaponry in this case, which makes me sad.

That isn't necessarily true.

Bioweapons that are incredibly devastating can be made not that difficultly. As in, piss fucking easy, without having to source substances that would arouse suspicion.

[pleasure_to_burn]

Guys, I highly doubt that planning to overthrow a sovereign government on a public forum is a good idea. Enjoy your secret prison in Eastern Europe.

[5.56 SS109]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4GLDqQEXI4

[Son of Liberty]

Count me in as a new recruit, although I might have contributed a post or two to the original back on &T.

I have some experience in prolonged wilderness expeditions and love the outback lifestyle

Im fairly well read on guerrilla wars and insurgencies, as well as modern warfare in general

A little bit of Martial Arts training (BJJ)

And a lot of interest, but only marginal experience with firearms.


So Im down, but Guatemala is a poor choice. We'd end up being captured and tortured by US trained & backed forces (It's happened to insurgents in that country before, too many US interests).

I'd vote for stirring up trouble in a country farther or completely off the radar - New Caledonia, Suriname, Tajikstan, Bhutan, etc

Mountainous terrain is positively correlated with successful guerrilla uprisings, as are % of 18-25 year old men in society, lack of government control and some other things... I'll have to crack open some books

recommended reading off the top of my head:
Rethinking the Economics of War (http://www.amazon.com/Rethinking-Economics-War-Intersection-Woodrow/dp/0801882982/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1249847280&sr=8-9)
The Jungle is Neutral (http://www.amazon.com/Jungle-Neutral-Soldiers-Two-Year-Japanese/dp/1592281079/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1249847324&sr=8-1)

[tasm]

Viva La Revolucion!
May I join you on your mission to liberate the good people of Guatemala?
I can bring infantry tactics for Mortars to the table. My training mostly consisted of the big guns (4.2 inch and 120mm) but also included substantial 81mm and light training on 60mm.
Experience - 4 years active duty and 5 years NG.
Relevant positions - squad leader, section sergeant, FDC chief.
Firearms training – M16A2, M249, M60, M2, M9
Certified trainer on 120mm gun system and M2 50 cal.
Graduate - Cheju Do mountaineering and repelling school
Trained driver for most tracked and wheeled vehicles. (90's era)

Equipment - M16 plotting boards and charge books (complements of US Army.)
AR-15s to arm a squad. (Moot point - don't think I could get them out of the country)

After we successfully take your country back we will need to start making plans to take the US back from our corrupt congress.

[The Swede]

Liberty is in, tasm is in and insantly promoted considering his experience with artillery systems.

[Creepy Lurker Dude]

Count me in. I have no formal training in anything, guns, or really any types of weapons but. I'll procure one on site tho. Code name Mike Hunt.

[supperrfreek]

Need a public relations man? I've been told I make the best excuses this side of the mississippi (the other side isn't in my jurisdiction, it's not my problem).

[LavaRed]

Need a public relations man? I've been told I make the best excuses this side of the mississippi (the other side isn't in my jurisdiction, it's not my problem).

Yup, you definitely passed the test mate.

[PROJECT PAT]

fuck yes i'll be there. this is the shit i dream about. to hell with setting up a democracy though. worst form of government ever. we should establish ourselves as oligarchs and run the country with some brains. we have to be careful that the us government doesn't step in and completely fuck us up though.

[reggie_love]

fuck yes i'll be there. this is the shit i dream about. to hell with setting up a democracy though. worst form of government ever. we should establish ourselves as oligarchs and run the country with some brains. we have to be careful that the us government doesn't step in and completely fuck us up though.

http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/8148/coolstorybrocopy.jpg

[Unwanted Prostate Exam]

I'll make some damn fine cannon fodder :)

[LavaRed]

I'll make some damn fine cannon fodder :)

No, you will perform routine prostate examinations to relieve our glorious leader's pain ;) .

[a giant pterodactyl]

http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/8148/coolstorybrocopy.jpg

lolz it just keeps getting better

[Tyrael]

I would like to help. I have a friend in the RLC who says if we form and register a PMC he can sell us anything except for the big 3 (NBC). I also used to know a few people in the LTTE who might be able to supply some experienced personnel if they're still alive

[Jenkem]

I don't get it , is there any seriousness to this? Like at a certain date are you all going to pack up for Guatemala and try to assassinate all the Guatemalan government officials?

[The Swede]

Nothing decided yet, but i can say that it's not a joke, Guatemalas people really do suffer and there are some people that are going to to do something about it for real.
-who? I don't know, all i know is that i would help out if i got the chance.

[LavaRed]

I would like to help. I have a friend in the RLC who says if we form and register a PMC he can sell us anything except for the big 3 (NBC). I also used to know a few people in the LTTE who might be able to supply some experienced personnel if they're still alive

What do we need to do to do this?

[The English Gentleman]

What do we need to do to do this?

Probably cash. I was about to mention, I doubt many of us will be able to sneak our weapons out...

[The Swede]

If i'm going by plane, no i won't, but by seas, yeah.

[Tyrael]

What do we need to do to do this?

well first we need money. I suggest a loan from the Bank of Guatemala as we will be able to write it off once we take control. after that we run the PMC as a legitimate business. running protection for firms in Guatamala (as you said kidnappings and armed robberies are skyrocketing so there's obviously a market). of course all this will be a front as all our profits will be going to buy equipment to secretly supply the insurgency with.

[The Swede]

That's actually an idea, i'm focusing on the security buisness part.

Are there factories and similar that would pay for private military contractors, and how would we train people? I know that i'm not at an acceptable level when it comes to combat training.

[Mr.Happy]

I've got a stout axe handle. I can run at resistance fighters and beat them with it real good, as long as they don't have guns.

Also, when Vampire Archimiel ran the "Plan An Assassination" threads back on Totse, I won 3 out of the 4 I participated in.

To summarize, I've got a sneaky, murderous mind and a stout axe handle. Do I qualify?

[The Savage]

We might have to duct tape an uzi or something to your axe handle to give you more versatility ;) .

[1983]

If we ducktaped a live duck to his head I think it'd have more of an effect... Can't help but stare at that and wonder "what the hell"

:D

Al

Also if you can find me a small metal shop with a metal lathe and a milling machien amongs other small tools like files punches and presses I could probably solve your gun problem...

[Tyrael]

how would we train people? I know that i'm not at an acceptable level when it comes to combat training.

historically PMCs have never had trouble attracting experienced instructors. in fact most major armies currently have a shortage of good instructors due to so many entering the private sector

[The Swede]

Also if you can find me a small metal shop with a metal lathe and a milling machien amongs other small tools like files punches and presses I could probably solve your gun problem...
That's actually avalible.

[1983]

I've talked to Lava and he knows I have a few good ideas knocking around in my noggin...

Basically they'd be mass produced and none too pritty but funtional... As long as they outlast the guy your shooting at you can allways grab his gun.

Also I have multiple ideas as well and allready drawn up plans for smaller consealed firearms that can be used for assasinations and the likes from books.

I'm actually in the process of designing a .22LR that's worn ontop of the hand under a glove that fires when you cock the firing pin and make a full fist... The then spent weapon can either be reloaded easily or used as a sturdy brass knuckle.

Al

[The Swede]

Like a STEN? :D

[BigBalla]

can i come along? but is this legal?

[The Savage]

can i come along? but is this legal?

If we win it will be :D .

[BigBalla]

If we win it will be :D .

ok im in
wait
how do we win?

[1983]

Like a STEN? :D

I was thinkign on something a little nicer than a STEN but somewhat as simple... I'd have to make a rifling machien as well so you could get at least some form of acuracy out of them....

Maybe set up a production line for the Ingram Mach 10 using press formed steel and the likes... Basicaly teach a group of people what to do and have them do it over and over again.

Possibly some form of automatic shotgun with a simple open bolt sytem... Basically hold the trigger and hold on for dear life untill it's munitions are spent.

I was also talkign to him about mortars on time delay devices using moltove like devices lit by the lift charge so small groups of individuals would seem like a much larger one and would know where it was safe to run in a skirmish where others would not.

There's also an Idea I hadn't run by him but it would use ballons a HE loaded with nails and a timed fuse and a good wind for an area detonation that would shower a general area with shrapnel... The ballons could also be set off rooftops or fields using an eletric time delay device...

Other than that if I'm given the right tools and acids I can created properly coated armor piercing rounds using teflon and possibly hardened metals that would be installed after the coating via a metal lathe so the balistics wouldn't be thrown off too much.

I also have an idea that I'll need help with at a later date that's a multi platform modular weapons system that can be used by a single individual... Quick to deploy a fire and forget system with no guidance except through your sights...
Basically prefabricated tubes that would have the eletrical and sighting components strapped on then fired... The spent tube can be left behind or collected for later use.

Simple things that are easy to mass produce to get to troops that need them and are effective.

Al

[The Savage]

I like your thinking ;) .

Also depending on funds/time and numbers we're talking it could be possible to use surplus barrels much like the ruskies did in WWII with 91/30's cut down to carbines and the barrels used for ppsh's. Of course that limits you to .30 or .311 caliber which will mean lesser terminal ballistics and harder to supply ammo - Then again WWII stuff like 7.62x25mm or one of the other bottle neck 7.62's may be available in guat?

[1983]

Worse comes to worse set up a reloading facility as well...

I was thinking of having the Ingram in .40 or .45 S&W for the knock down power as well as being able to make sub-sonic ammo for "other" uses... Possibility of those rounds being the ones that are armor piercing.

Mayhaps have a trained group of people given specially calibrated guns so they'll cycle the supressed round without fault.

I was also thinking for shits and giggles if the sewers under whatever compound were sealed off and had propane tanks ruptured then set off to creat and FAE right under I'm pritty sure it'd cause some dammage as well...
That or just have a massive bulk of propane tanks some det cord and a secondary timed device to give the fule air to mix then detonate.

Al

[BigBalla]

What is the point of going to Guatemala? what are we going to do there? set up a police force or something? somebody please explain

[1983]

I dunno about the other guys... I'm just there for the beer and the bitches.:D

Not really... But if it was totse spawned and zoklet born then I'd want to see some sort of fruits come out of people labor.

It would also be intrusting to see how people would react in a real war or social uprising other than talking about it... Honestly I wouldn't even know how I'd handle it... I'm a coward and proud of it using sneaky and shitty outright wrong gurilla tactics...

My point of view though is the coward allways lives... Only thing I think I'd do that would be un-cowardly is keep my mouth shut... Loose lips sink ships and all that jazz.

Bullets go through the backs of an enimy combatant just as easily as the front.

And civilians are only colateral dammage if you're the govenment... To me they're moveing sheilds that keeps me from them.

Al

[The Swede]

What is the point of going to Guatemala? what are we going to do there? set up a police force or something? somebody please explain

The first post contains the information you are looking for.

[LavaRed]

And civilians are only colateral dammage if you're the govenment... To me they're moveing sheilds that keeps me from them.

Al

In our model of government, the civillians are both our customers and our stockholders. We, the government, will be providing them a service, that of managing the country, in exchange for a fee. The fee is sales tax. The citizens are also our investors, so they are investing with us. This is the income tax.
The country will be managed by a CEO, appointed by a board of directors, which will consist of a percentage of the population and government (the corporation).
As in any enterprise, the government can not run a deficit. It must turn out a profit for its stockholders, as well as deliver a stellar service to its clients. Our service is an efficient management of the government. Our profits will be distributed to the stockholders in the form of social dividends (improvements that work as profit multipliers for them).
Eventually, we have to expand to a global level, offering our services to peoples of various nations.
This is the basic scheme for my corporare government model

[pleasure_to_burn]

In our model of government, the civillians are both our customers and our stockholders. We, the government, will be providing them a service, that of managing the country, in exchange for a fee. The fee is sales tax. The citizens are also our investors, so they are investing with us. This is the income tax.
The country will be managed by a CEO, appointed by a board of directors, which will consist of a percentage of the population and government (the corporation).
As in any enterprise, the government can not run a deficit. It must turn out a profit for its stockholders, as well as deliver a stellar service to its clients. Our service is an efficient management of the government. Our profits will be distributed to the stockholders in the form of social dividends (improvements that work as profit multipliers for them).
Eventually, we have to expand to a global level, offering our services to peoples of various nations.
This is the basic scheme for my corporare government model

Does this world really need more corporate bs? That is not a democracy by any means, you are doing a good job of dressing it up but you are advocating taking away the vote from the common people. Ask any deposed dictator, that is a serious mistake. Who appoints this board of directors, and what about them will make them so much better than the rest of us at running the country?

You better put some more thought into this man, this whole idea seems really interesting to me but we really have got to think of a better solution than a corporatocracy. No one is going to fight for this if you don't have a broader vision of the future. Look beyond this revolution, what do you actually want for Guatemala? Some retired general will work fine gaining military support(and as defense minister when the revolution is over), but you need a young, visionary leader not some old dinosaur to truly take command of the people.

As for forms of government, I think a parliamentary democracy would work fine, but it would have Japan-esque restrictions on election campaigning, making it possible for a common man to run for office. Those interested in running announce their candidacy a mere 6 weeks from the election. All major media outlets are required to give equal time to all legitimate candidates. This cuts down on the "only rich guys have enough time and money to run for major office" phenomena that is plaguing world politics today.

Shit, all of you guys talking about your guns, signing up for Assasin teams and whatnot, that's all fine in my book, I might even think about joining you myself. I know quite a bit about guerilla combat(Read che guevara's guide, its a good intro), also survival techniques, hand to hand combat, knowledge of police tactics, knowledge of riot combat and riot devices(molotovs, smoke bombs, etc), first aid/cpr/lifeguard, I understand spanish also. I have a number of hand-made weapons, none of which shoot anything, but guns could be acquired because I am of age. I'm a pretty good shot with a rifle too. Still have a bunch of questions though:
-How would we get our equipment over there?
-When is this gonna happen
-How many natives can be rallied to our cause that have military experience? We need as many as possible. We would be a l33t group, but there would not be more than 200 of us totseans. We would have to provide the spark, and let the natives who know the local layout do most of the work, while we provide our expertise to back them up.

[LavaRed]

Does this world really need more corporate bs? That is not a democracy by any means, you are doing a good job of dressing it up but you are advocating taking away the vote from the common people. Ask any deposed dictator, that is a serious mistake. Who appoints this board of directors, and what about them will make them so much better than the rest of us at running the country?

You better put some more thought into this man, this whole idea seems really interesting to me but we really have got to think of a better solution than a corporatocracy. No one is going to fight for this if you don't have a broader vision of the future. Look beyond this revolution, what do you actually want for Guatemala? Some retired general will work fine gaining military support(and as defense minister when the revolution is over), but you need a young, visionary leader not some old dinosaur to truly take command of the people.

As for forms of government, I think a parliamentary democracy would work fine, but it would have Japan-esque restrictions on election campaigning, making it possible for a common man to run for office. Those interested in running announce their candidacy a mere 6 weeks from the election. All major media outlets are required to give equal time to all legitimate candidates. This cuts down on the "only rich guys have enough time and money to run for major office" phenomena that is plaguing world politics today.

Shit, all of you guys talking about your guns, signing up for Assasin teams and whatnot, that's all fine in my book, I might even think about joining you myself. I know quite a bit about guerilla combat(Read che guevara's guide, its a good intro), also survival techniques, hand to hand combat, knowledge of police tactics, knowledge of riot combat and riot devices(molotovs, smoke bombs, etc), first aid/cpr/lifeguard, I understand spanish also. I have a number of hand-made weapons, none of which shoot anything, but guns could be acquired because I am of age. I'm a pretty good shot with a rifle too. Still have a bunch of questions though:
-How would we get our equipment over there?
-When is this gonna happen
-How many natives can be rallied to our cause that have military experience? We need as many as possible. We would be a l33t group, but there would not be more than 200 of us totseans. We would have to provide the spark, and let the natives who know the local layout do most of the work, while we provide our expertise to back them up.

Actually the idea is not a corporocracy, but a government designed to serve the people, and not just eat up their taxes. Who elects the board of directors? the stockholders do, that is, the people. Think of them as congressmen of sorts, only smaller numbers.
My point of view is that our government should be there to serve the people, and to ensure that, the fortunes of the government must be tied to those of the people. It's really not about control or exploitation at all, but rather about making the government true employees of the people.

[Son of Liberty]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_4OYGjUrdllo/SY7dUIVaFyI/AAAAAAAAQdk/ho3BsqgsanE/s400/furiousgeorge_bottom.jpg
we bring freedom, bitches

we should go in by boat, a'la Che & Fidel's entry to Cuba - hopefully with better results (they were ambushed on the beach)

we should make ppsh's in 9mm - those guns kick ass in CoD - apparently they could be made in simple machine shops (with the exception of the barrel).

we need a primary commodity (drugs, oil, diamonds, etc) to fund our campaign of liberation, what's it gonna be? [LSD would be hilarious]

i couldnt find the picture from Guerrilla Warfare, but we should make some of those ghetto-ass molotov/shotgun launchers

[The English Gentleman]

In our model of government, the civillians are both our customers and our stockholders. We, the government, will be providing them a service, that of managing the country, in exchange for a fee. The fee is sales tax. The citizens are also our investors, so they are investing with us. This is the income tax.
The country will be managed by a CEO, appointed by a board of directors, which will consist of a percentage of the population and government (the corporation).
As in any enterprise, the government can not run a deficit. It must turn out a profit for its stockholders, as well as deliver a stellar service to its clients. Our service is an efficient management of the government. Our profits will be distributed to the stockholders in the form of social dividends (improvements that work as profit multipliers for them).
Eventually, we have to expand to a global level, offering our services to peoples of various nations.
This is the basic scheme for my corporare government model

It is an understatement to say I just came:eek:. I agree with this idea of governance fully. The idea of the state being a lean mean efficient machine is massively attractive. If you have ever been to a planning case in britain relating to properties then you will know quite how massively fucking wasteful government is, especially the local kind.

[The Savage]

we need a primary commodity (drugs, oil, diamonds, etc) to fund our campaign of liberation, what's it gonna be? [LSD would be hilarious

If you do a bit of searching you'll find Guat is a cocaine hot spot. However the idea is to eliminate it. IIRC Me, 556 ss109 and stupid noob we appointed to...destroying....any precursors and drugs we find :D .

[Vikef]

If you do a bit of searching you'll find Guat is a cocaine hot spot. However the idea is to eliminate it. IIRC Me, 556 ss109 and stupid noob we appointed to...destroying....any precursors and drugs we find :D .

didn't we have a provision for pot or someone promised somebody land for a pot farm in exchange for their services?

[The Swede]

If you do a bit of searching you'll find Guat is a cocaine hot spot. However the idea is to eliminate it. IIRC Me, 556 ss109 and stupid noob we appointed to...destroying....any precursors and drugs we find :D .
Well, not in the beginning as the drug dealers are powerful allies, but the time will come.

didn't we have a provision for pot or someone promised somebody land for a pot farm in exchange for their services?
Nope.

[talonner]

Does this world really need more corporate bs? That is not a democracy by any means, you are doing a good job of dressing it up but you are advocating taking away the vote from the common people. Ask any deposed dictator, that is a serious mistake. Who appoints this board of directors, and what about them will make them so much better than the rest of us at running the country?

You better put some more thought into this man, this whole idea seems really interesting to me but we really have got to think of a better solution than a corporatocracy. No one is going to fight for this if you don't have a broader vision of the future. Look beyond this revolution, what do you actually want for Guatemala? Some retired general will work fine gaining military support(and as defense minister when the revolution is over), but you need a young, visionary leader not some old dinosaur to truly take command of the people.

As for forms of government, I think a parliamentary democracy would work fine, but it would have Japan-esque restrictions on election campaigning, making it possible for a common man to run for office. Those interested in running announce their candidacy a mere 6 weeks from the election. All major media outlets are required to give equal time to all legitimate candidates. This cuts down on the "only rich guys have enough time and money to run for major office" phenomena that is plaguing world politics today.

Shit, all of you guys talking about your guns, signing up for Assasin teams and whatnot, that's all fine in my book, I might even think about joining you myself. I know quite a bit about guerilla combat(Read che guevara's guide, its a good intro), also survival techniques, hand to hand combat, knowledge of police tactics, knowledge of riot combat and riot devices(molotovs, smoke bombs, etc), first aid/cpr/lifeguard, I understand spanish also. I have a number of hand-made weapons, none of which shoot anything, but guns could be acquired because I am of age. I'm a pretty good shot with a rifle too. Still have a bunch of questions though:
-How would we get our equipment over there?
-When is this gonna happen
-How many natives can be rallied to our cause that have military experience? We need as many as possible. We would be a l33t group, but there would not be more than 200 of us totseans. We would have to provide the spark, and let the natives who know the local layout do most of the work, while we provide our expertise to back them up.

He also brags about bribing cops and murdering people in gaol cells.

Well, not in the beginning as the drug dealers are powerful allies, but the time will come.


Nope.

Hahahaha.

Hahaha.

Lol.

[BigBalla]

The first post contains the information you are looking for.

whats the game plan?