WW closet grow

[Slapshot]

To begin with, these 4 girls started in Light Warrior for 3 weeks in 6" pots and were underfed, and growing under 300w of CFL. I believe that one of the two (if not both + rootbound@3 weeks?) were responsible for their retarded growth. 4 1/2 weeks and only 6" tall, but they overlap the 5 gallon buckets. I will start feeding immediately next go-round. 4/4 Nirvana WW sprouted (5th seed tucked away, lol)


I transplanted them from 6" pots to 5 gallon buckets with fresh Ocean Forest under 400w MH at exactly 3 weeks and they're getting full strength Jack's Classic nutes once per week (no more yellow leaves, I would prefer organic to chemical, budget will have to accommodate) and I'm pretty much just waiting for the next growth spurt to throw them into flower. They've been in 5 gallon buckets w/ FFOF for 1 1/2 weeks, recieving full-strength nutes for 2 weeks.

I raised the light from 6" to 12" to encourage stretching. Runoff ph is 6.4, temps are 75f, and I use 1 drop per gallon Superthrive in every watering. I've been keeping my grow area bug-free with a fruit tree pesticide that contains 70% neem and a small percentage of pyretherin. Shake and spray every few days, rubber gloves during application. Other than lack of height, I can't complain. Plants are healthy, all green and no yellow. Is WW notoriously short or is it me?

http://i53.tinypic.com/34oow20.jpghttp://i51.tinypic.com/2ptncjs.jpghttp://i54.tinypic.com/ruzj8h.jpg

Also, lol@ preparing water reservoirs for use, PHing and nutes etc. took me like 45 minutes running the hose, smoking pot, mixing nutes, smoking pot, counting drops of superthrive, smoking pot, PHing the solution, smoking more pot.... I need bigger reservoirs, and more pot. ; D

[Dose Me]

They look great man.

Any reason why you want to encourage stretching though? Indoors you want to discourage it as much as possible. Remember that plants approx double in size during the flowering stage.

So however big they are when you switch it to 12/12...expect them to be double that by harvest.

[zombo.com]

looking good mate, if you've got the headroom don't be afraid to let em stretch...good idea to grab some bamboo stakes from the garden center though.

[Slapshot]

Thanks guys, I guess I'm just getting impatient being that I lost my first crop and have yet to taste the fruits of my labor. It'll be 5 weeks on wed. so I might be looking at 6 weeks of veg time.

[Dose Me]

Don't be afraid to veg em out man...I'd do it for as long as you can because the more you veg the more you harvest...its simple math.

Space is often the limiting factor...that in impatience. You've got the space so its up to you :grinblunt:

[zombo.com]

lol..my very first one they were in veg for like 8 months...it jsut never seemed like a good time.

of course, they were only in liter pots, and it was over the winter in a badly sealed garage, so they were still only like 4 feet tall at harvest...but i got a pound off the bitches.

[Slapshot]

Sorry for rambling on in that first post, I was half in the bag that night.

So anyway, I just spent my entire morning giving my girls a spa treatment. Took some cuttings, gave them a good neem oil soaking, rinsed them after 30 min., threw down some more bleach, and switched to HPS.

I was about to kick them over when I re-read this journal and decided to stay in veg for a couple more weeks (been 6 already). Think the change to HPS will affect them if I leave them in 18/6? Or should I switch back to MH till flower?

BTW, they're 1 ft tall with fan leaves bigger than the 5 gallon bucket, some of them have 11 blades. I've noticed some serious curling on the bottom fan leaves, and my research has led me to the conclusion that it could be absolutely anything... too much water, too little water, too much nutes, too little nutes... whatever man, as long as mites don't eat my shit :)

http://i52.tinypic.com/63zri9.jpg
^That fan leaf would sit on the lip of the bucket
http://i56.tinypic.com/2uiyg5i.jpg
^11 blades
http://i51.tinypic.com/14937nt.jpg
^HPS glow

FINALLY!!!!! after 5 months as a ganja grower, my shit is right. :thumbsup:
http://i56.tinypic.com/12516w5.jpg
flower on the left, clone/veg on the right

edit: better closet pic

[zombo.com]

lol, don't be scared to kick em over. my first grow i literally spent like 6 months waiting for "just the right time"

(of course they were in like one liter pots, rootbound and not getting any bigger during all that time.) live and learn eh?

[Slapshot]

live and learn eh?

That's for damn sure. Rootbound was my first lesson as well, fuck solo cups.

[Slapshot]

I've got what looks like a Mg deficiency on one plant, getting epsom salts today for foliar feeding. Runoff ph is down to 6.1 which worries me, nutes bring my water down to 6.4, could those rust-colored spots be nute lockout? Also got a 14 blade mutation that looks pretty cool :thumbsup:
1/4 tsp/gal. Jack's classic nutes every other watering.

http://i54.tinypic.com/169ric2.jpg
^rust-colored spots

http://i53.tinypic.com/2hhnmzt.jpg
^14-bladed mutation, same plant. It's also the only plant with that weird sheen to it.

I also gave them another neem treatment and I'm getting a no-pest strip with the epsom salts. Man, those mites have me on high alert (started flower a few days ago, good call guys, they hit a growth spurt already.. 16"). I'm even conscious of how I move around my closet, knowing that I'm kicking up dust even on my clothes (change into a fresh T and tend in my skivvies). Probably the most important lesson I've learned so far is that I'm going to get mites, and unless I want to lose my crop, I've got to pull out all the stops.

I checked for light leaks while I had my plants out of the closet and fixed them with foam weatherstripping, which got me thinking about all the reports of feminized seeds herming.... I'm sure the chance is higher, but it's probably overhyped due to lazy noobs.

[Chameleon Gangster]

looks good so far

[Slapshot]

looks good so far

Thanks man, I'm just tired of paying for pot, ya know? ;)

[zombo.com]

magnesium deficiency looks like a LOT of things, but apparently it's pretty uncoommon to actually get (i know this because i spent a few months thinking that my sensi's were suffering from it when it actually turned out to be somethign entirely different...

but those pics you posted look a lot like minor nute burn. How often are you neeming? more than once every couple of weeks could help cause that as well.

https://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/1134nute-burn1.jpg

[Slapshot]

magnesium deficiency looks like a LOT of things, but apparently it's pretty uncoommon to actually get (i know this because i spent a few months thinking that my sensi's were suffering from it when it actually turned out to be somethign entirely different...

but those pics you posted look a lot like minor nute burn. How often are you neeming? more than once every couple of weeks could help cause that as well.


You're probably right, I've been adding nutes since transplant, full strength nutes + 5 gallons fresh FFOF might be a little much.

I'm neeming every 3-4 days for the first 2 weeks of flower, but those spots showed after the first treatment, and I rinsed the plants well.

In my near future, I see a hose snaking through my house into the basement for a flush....

[lotek]

i grew 4 crops of 25ish strains from clones with zero veg period and they all still hit 2-3.5ft. sog scrog topped fimmed tied all of it to keep em from burning. 24hr flouro till clone root then right to 12/12 hps

most were sativas tho. i did have one tiny indica with pink hairs stunt after 8in. it was from dank bagseed(last dirty seeds i used) and may have been an auto seed cause it was done flowering at 40 days but i didnt know it until 75ish days. all the trichs turned tan and it looked rolled in brown sugar. not mold tho.

[zombo.com]

that seems about normal for sativas done sea of green...good to know i'm not the only one to fuck up indicas like that though :)

anyone else done indicas with little or no veg time?

[lotek]

i had alot of hybrids do perfect with no veg. never bough indica seeds tho cause im not wild about the high. if i EVER get up and break my couchlock i get a migrane. only indicas i had were f2 herm seeds from bags of dank or a random accidental seed

[Slapshot]

i grew 4 crops of 25ish strains from clones with zero veg period and they all still hit 2-3.5ft. sog scrog topped fimmed tied all of it to keep em from burning. 24hr flouro till clone root then right to 12/12 hps.

This is my goal, but I'd need a resident mother and perfect timing, and my cloning skills leave much to be desired. I may have a developing mold problem as well, which makes it difficult to use humidity domes, necessary if I'm going to be running a de-humidifier to deal with the mold.

I'd like to try some killer sativa next grow, I've got 75" to work with.

So, I've got something here... I took out that plant with the minor nute burn and while I was flushing it, I noticed black spots all over the plant. Not exactly on the leaf, more noticable when light is shining through it. Check out the pics, one is with the flash on, and you can hardly notice them, the other is with the flash off and cfl's shining through it. It's the only one with this condition so far *knock on wood

http://i54.tinypic.com/2ynpbgx.jpg
http://i55.tinypic.com/205y1ar.jpg
http://i53.tinypic.com/35l4yes.jpg
http://i55.tinypic.com/2u74ujc.jpg

And here's a few of the kids...
http://i56.tinypic.com/2elqwxf.jpg
http://i55.tinypic.com/j14zh3.jpg
As you can see, they've taken off. The tallest just hit 20". So what do you guys think that black shit is, mold? My humidity stays around 60%, I figure if I can get away with not running my dehumidifier 24/7 it would be easier on my electric bill. I haven't put the plant back in the closet and I'm dehumid-ing already.

I thought neem or pyretherin stops mold? I could've swore I was using something that stops mold....

edit: this is what's happening to my clones....
http://i53.tinypic.com/296oq4l.jpg

[zombo.com]

neem's for mites, it supposedly will make them more mold resistant, but i wasn't able to get ahead of it until i used a copper based fungicide (i had to go to a nurssery for that one, walmart/lowe's/home deopt just carries fucking neem.) the only thing is you can't use them at the same time.

Are you using any nutes in with the clones? i'm still wondering if that's not nute burn..

if you're willing to spend a few bucks, hunt up an aerogarden for cloning, i've been seeing 100% success and roots in 5 days since i started using mine.
I don't even need to spray them, just wet a small transparent cup with some hole in it and set it on top.

here's the current setup, which has an extra station than most since i've got the lights available....

7 start in rapid rooter plugs in the aero garden...as soon as they root they go into dixie cups under a 2 food 2 tube cfl fitting, i give them about a week there to root through the cup and get a nice root ball going on. They're about 6 inches at that point.

From there they go into 5 gallon pots and go under a kilowatt metal halide with the mothers for a bit longer, another week or so and they're about a foot tall, that's when they go in to the flowering room.

[Slapshot]

Nah man, no nutes but they are in rockwool plugs in an empty bubble cloner. The plugs get a good run-through with distilled water once a day, I understand no roots = no nutes? (I did ph the plugs in 5.5 for 24hrs)

I may have to buy one of these things, this is my second attempt and both wound up with black shit. I need to be able to not use a humidity dome.

edit: I'm pretty sure that plant has nute burn, but I'm wondering if it has mold too. I remember your story about indica molds wrecking your shit and I thought you might recognize it.

[Slapshot]

Fuck it, it's gone. Down to 3. I will be buying some of this "fung-i-cide", thanks for the tip :thumbsup:

[zombo.com]

well, the mold WAS the issue that i was misdiagnosing as magnesium deficiency, and it sounds like you're working through the same steps as i did :)

[lotek]

you plants are very off.

it looks like ph is wrong, they are too hot, humidity is too high, you are nute burning them, not in the normal way but bec ause of ph nutelock. but you say otherwise up top which makes me wonder why they look so odd.

mites are bassicly impossible to ever get rid of i hope thats not what you have.

your grow is giving me flashbacks to when i grew/started. your leaves are just all wrong, too shiney, folding up, jagged, i know this problem.

biggest prob if it is mites, they will herm your crop. ive kept them at bay before but never got rid of them and it always produced stress that made them herm.

neem oil is god for fungus/root gnats and thats it! its way too weak for mites and they are not as vulnerable because of their exoskelli.

[lotek]

nvm i just clicked yr pics open etc. ive never seen a mold prob like that. whys it so envasive? are you forming rainclouds in yr tent? :P

[zombo.com]

ph nute lock's a possibility, do you have a soil test kit? they're pretty cheap.

[lotek]

yea, runoff isnt accurate. you seem to be using legit stuff, but when i was a wee lad i could ph my water fresh, then leave it over night and it would ph 2-3 different, then it would run off 7.3, but the plants acted like it was 4. we had horrid water tho. i ran thru so much aquarium conditioner there.

i had a similar leaf necro as you from hard core ph lock but from what you said you seem to know whats up! good luck with your mold, ive never really delt with it before.

i have 1 plant outside this year, first time under the sun for me. i dunno what ill do when it turns rainy.

[Slapshot]

Yea, my shit is definitely off. I think that one plant just had weird genetics though, that combined with my inexperience must've been too much stress.

No signs of mold on the other plants but I've got 7 weeks to go. No signs of mite damage either, even though I had them on my last grow. My water does go down a few points too, but I think that's the chlorine evaporating. I keep reservoirs and the ph is stable. I may go with FF nutes and distilled water for my next grow, which will be starting in a few weeks (diesel)

ph nute lock's a possibility, do you have a soil test kit? they're pretty cheap.
Yea man, I'm thinking if the soil is bringing my water down from 6.4 to 6.1, the actual ph of the soil must be 5.8 or somewhere in that range. I'm going to have to flush the rest of them and pay very close attention.

Thanks guys!!!!! :thumbsup:

[zombo.com]

sorry to have to keep going "well it could be this" but..theres so many ways to turn a leaf yellow.

[Slapshot]

sorry to have to keep going "well it could be this" but..theres so many ways to turn a leaf yellow.

Not at all man, I appreciate you guys helping me narrow it down. I see a few brown spots developing on my other plants, so tomorrow is flush time. May have to get some ph up from the hydro store if my soil is too acidic (but... it's ocean forest :confused: ...municipal water :angry: )

Didn't find copper-based, got some sulpher + pyretherin 3-in-one disease killer. Can't use it for another 2 weeks though because of the neem treatment, and even then... how late into flower do you use fungicides?

One plant grew an inch in 8 hours... 22" :drool:
http://i53.tinypic.com/33ynzuu.jpg
http://i52.tinypic.com/2h38vmf.jpg
http://i55.tinypic.com/2uhuyie.jpg

[Slapshot]

I'm still thinking this out.... maybe I can use garden lime to avoid a $20 quart of ph-up, is flushing even necessary in this situation? I'm operating under the assumption that salts have built up in my soil resulting in a lower ph.

[AngryOnion]

Looks good!
I wish I had the balls to grow my own weed.

[zombo.com]

I'm still thinking this out.... maybe I can use garden lime to avoid a $20 quart of ph-up, is flushing even necessary in this situation? I'm operating under the assumption that salts have built up in my soil resulting in a lower ph.

built up salts is when you want to flush, but ph up/down is for hydro (i've never heard of anyone using it for soil at least), use the lime + flushing to bring it down in soil.
sulfur should work, copper and sulfur based were the two mentioned in most gardening web sites.
with fungicides and miticides i go by whatever is LONGEST on the instructions as far as the different edible plants, usually 12 days i think. you don't want to guess wrong, so give yourself some leeway.

[lotek]

i use updown for my water but it doesnt work for soil. it also builds up salts and can become toxic over time!

ive used dolomite lime lots. i mix in like 10oz with every 5gal of water i use outside nowdays and just let it spread out aroudn the plant. its in a highly acidic forest and i dont want low ph rain water from the leaves/soil tweaking it.

its just a very hard to over do chemical. like Dia earth for bug prevention.

[Slapshot]

built up salts is when you want to flush, but ph up/down is for hydro (i've never heard of anyone using it for soil at least), use the lime + flushing to bring it down in soil.
sulfur should work, copper and sulfur based were the two mentioned in most gardening web sites.
with fungicides and miticides i go by whatever is LONGEST on the instructions as far as the different edible plants, usually 12 days i think. you don't want to guess wrong, so give yourself some leeway.

Yeaman, I flushed yesterday morning till runoff ph'd at 6.7. I've read about people just ph'ing their water to counteract salt buildup, and I'm a lazy motherfucker, so I'm constantly looking for shortcuts. I did use ph-down to soak my rockwool plugs though.

Glad to hear that sulfer-based actually works though, but I've also read that neem (or pyretherins, can't remember) will break down THC if used late into flower, and I was nervous that fungicides would do the same.

@lotek... good advice, no ph-up/down for my soil, thx man....

Shit, at this point, I'd be happy to harvest a fucking half ounce loaded with pesticides. I'll get my shit straight eventually, just gotta keep growing :) Hopefully, I'll post some weight many weeks from now....

Now I know why people recommend soil before hydro for noobs, my plants would've been dead a long time ago in hydro.

[zombo.com]

Lol, luckily they're hard to kill :P

[Slapshot]

Lol, luckily they're hard to kill :P

:lol:

[lotek]

well i still use updown, but if u are having to make 8.6 water correct or 3.2 water correct every time u water youll load it with salts in a month. i use aquarium conditioner to kill the Cl addatives, then its maybe +/- .5ph with updown, not several points.

most common sign of lock tho is mg deff.

[zombo.com]

well i still use updown, but if u are having to make 8.6 water correct or 3.2 water correct every time u water youll load it with salts in a month. i use aquarium conditioner to kill the Cl addatives, then its maybe +/- .5ph with updown, not several points.

most common sign of lock tho is mg deff.

i just hate to send him barking up the wrong tree...mg def looks like a LOT of other shit. He could always try a foliar feed of epsom salts though, if it is magnesium that should clear it up right? (not permanently obviously, since his dirt would still be hot, but it should prove a diagnosis so he knows what to treat.)

[lotek]

oh no i wasnt suggesting thats what his prob is. i was just talkin about ph lock, which i dont think he has either.

[zombo.com]

oh no i wasnt suggesting thats what his prob is. i was just talkin about ph lock, which i dont think he has either.

gotcha..just double checked the pictures, no signs of leafs "praying" so thats definitly not it...

[Slapshot]

They liked the flush :)

Whatever necrosis was affecting the leaves seems to have stopped cold, and new growth is looking very healthy. The buckets are still heavy from flushing them 4 days ago so I'll wait till the weekend to water them again and get another reading.

I think improper ph contributed to the curling and eventual decay of my lower fan leaves. I'm still on edge though, another neem treatment, make sure runoff is 6.7, and keep my eye out for mold.

I'm still perplexed as to how fast that one plant became covered in black spots. 2 days tops...

http://i56.tinypic.com/9zr4b8.jpg

[zombo.com]

they look healthy mate, i think you'l be ok.

[lotek]

if it is eating yr plant bottom up, it is over watering, fungus gnats, or root bound. or lock.

i see upward curl on yr top leaves liek its too hot, then downward curl on the lower ones...

[Slapshot]

...or mites, lol. I watched my last plant get eaten from the ground up. Dealt with fungus gnats too, MG soil :doh: Easy fix though, an inch of white sand over the soil.

I'm bug free so far, you can see my flypaper strip that's been up since flower started 2 weeks ago, not a fly on it.

[stiletto]

How Susceptable are these things.? Might have eight at around three weeks. Vaccuum every other day, and wash down the floors with water and a little bleach every week. get fresh air in every day. Foxfarm nutrients every other watering according to their feeding schedule. flush them out every week, always using tepid water. once or twice a day i'll mist them with water to keep dust off and what seems will prevent mites. Walls and ceiling covered in mylar with industrial style trash bags underneith to prevent mold. A moisture meter that does function as a light gauge and pH meter, however the pH meter simply isn't sensitive enough. 400w mh with a lumatek 400w ballast, moving to hps once the switch is flicked and a simple over head reflector. fans going 100hrs plus a week. A clean, healthy environment.

This is ? first attempt, and have seen some real morons manage to grow pot. How hard is it to really follow directions, and have a little bit of a clue? Once you've done you're homework, seen some examples in person, so far as it seems, all it takes is patients, planning, and dedication.

there is a little orange spotting on one plant and some areas that seem thinner, however it seems to be regressing.

Dont over feed, over water, and make sure it's the proper pH. Plants have defense systems, as it's been made clear from biology courses, and any other relevant study. When the plants have a humans hand in it's growth and developement, then things should be even better.

[Slapshot]

It all comes down to how much time, money, and patience a person has to invest in this hobby. I can say without question that I've done my homework and do the best with the equipment I can afford, but there's a huge difference between book knowledge and applied knowledge. I'd never even seen a live marijuana plant before I started growing them. If the only threads in this forum were made by professional growers who already know everything, it would be a fucking ghost town. ;)

[zombo.com]

<looks around>
<kicks a wandering tumbleweed>

yeah..for sure, a ghost town..

[Slapshot]

<looks around>
<kicks a wandering tumbleweed>

yeah..for sure, a ghost town..

LOL.... might as well call it Zos Town

I didn't mean it like that though, nobody knows everything there is to know about growing pot. I mean, how many times have you seen people ask questions that NOBODY can answer???? A million?

[zombo.com]

unfortunantly the 20 year norcal people don'tr really have much wifi access back in the mountains.

Hell i'd settle for a talented botany student/grower.

[Mashleshmash]

Subscribe.

[zombo.com]

I wish I had some bud. :(

grow some, we'll help.

[lotek]

this forums always a ghosttown. i feel bad seeing lotek/zos as the newest post on the top 15 threads lol.

[zombo.com]

this forums always a ghosttown. i feel bad seeing lotek/zos as the newest post on the top 15 threads lol.

this place has been my baby since we first convinced smu to give us a grow forum...tbh when i don't feel like dealing with any bullshit on the board, this is where i hang out. it's ok if it moves slow, its good info for the most part and one of the few places where you can expect mutual respect on zoklet. (well mostly, we may still call you a cunt, but it doesn't mean we hate you.)

[Slapshot]

when i don't feel like dealing with any bullshit on the board, this is where i hang out. it's ok if it moves slow, its good info for the most part and one of the few places where you can expect mutual respect on zoklet.

^fucking this. Sometimes I'll go weeks without posting in other forums, always check in with CC though. Good show guys.

[Slapshot]

Alright, thanks to stiletto for his feeding schedule, and the working hose hookup I just found in my basement, I'll be feeding - flushing -feeding - flushing. Since I'll be flushing once per week (every other watering), I'm using ph-up to balance my nutrient water without worrying about salt buildup. Do I understand this correctly? (just used tiger bloom, 1 tsp per gal)

I did flush again this weekend, and I'm preparing a system with a small water pump, air pump, and a watering wand to make my life easier. I know I'm a little slow on the nutrient learning curve, but there's a lot of conflicting information out there.

[lotek]

i realized a massive bump in quality the very week i learned to only water when u can pick yr bucket up and it feels stupid light. pick it up the next time u water it, then once a day or two after. youll learn how heavy it is at 100%, 75%, 50% etc. i would tilt the pot with 2 finger. if it was 25% id wait until the very start of their next light cycle. it it was about 10% id do it right then.

i went to feeding once every 3 to 5 days depending on pot size and plant age. if u can muscle the fear of it, letting them get a tad wilty is a bonus too. just like 5%. just enough to tell the fans have changed shape. thats why i would wait till after their dark cycle if they felt light. in the morning they looked happy and in need of a morning piss and gulp of water.

always water to pot saturation, and always let it get atleast 75% dry. this conditions the roots and fungus in your dirty to grow with vigor. the rootballs on plants i watered like this were waaaay better than before it. i had to beat my rootball into a pile inch by inch where before the dirt would breakup when i unpotted at the end.

one of the most important things to understand about growing is that while the green bits of the plant feed on co2, this is only to capture 2 oxygens from the co2 and make sugar. sugar that is then sent to the roots where it is eaten the same way plant sells consume energy. this, liek with animals, requires oxygen.

well since the leafy bits only capture co2, the roots get their oxygen from the dirt. if the dirt stays wet all the time, there is little oxygen transfer. but with a cycle of full saturation, and nearly full drying, many voids and cracks and tunnels open up. and since nature hates a vacuum, air gets pulled down into the dirt. so every time your plant sucks up more than 50% of the water, the roots get a boost from the extra oxygen. as do the fungus which tend to enjoy said oxygen.

so not only do your roots get a boost in engery metabolization and nutrient uptake. now remember, the 1 and only way each and every root on your plant is able to get nutrients out of the dirt, is fungus. roots are not able to harvest straight from dirt, they have evolved to symbioticly use fungus to transfer chemical energy.

so now we have a boost in root metabolization, but we now also have a bonus in fungal growth and micilium expansion. this means an even bigger boost to the level of available nutrients for the now hyper-functioning roots to absorb.

day 3 or 4 without watering brings the return of the rains, and a flush of that wonderful all natural solvent water. now the stockpile of nutrients thoes roots have been making and slowly rationing out to the pretty bits of the plant is sucked up in a torrent of water that the green portion of the plant is demanding from the roots via axion hormones.

congrats, by simple watering schedule alterations we have given the whole plant, root, and fungus environment something to look forward to and build on.

[zombo.com]

great post.

one thing i've been noticing with the soiless mix this time, they really do hold water forever. my mama's in dirt, she's bone dry in 2 days, the rest of the girls in promix...need more like 5

[Slapshot]

Thanks for posting that lotek, this is exactly the balance I'm trying to achieve. I will put these suggestions to good use, and hopefully post some nice results. :thumbsup:

great post.

one thing i've been noticing with the soiless mix this time, they really do hold water forever. my mama's in dirt, she's bone dry in 2 days, the rest of the girls in promix...need more like 5

Seems to me I've got to mix it with something so it will take water properly. When it gets too dry water flows right through it without wetting the medium, takes a while to soak in. I've got it 50/50 with light warrior (which has too much perlite to begin with imo) for my seedling mix.

[Slapshot]

http://i54.tinypic.com/2eusjfc.jpg :facepalm:

Flushed twice in two weeks. Nuted yesterday with tiger bloom. Looks like I'll be down to two plants in a few days. : |

I just spent my entire day cleaning. Found a garden sprayer hose attachment, filled it with bleach, and went to work with a deck brush and wet vac to rid my entire basement of any possible mold. Too little too late I suppose, 5 more days till I can use fungicide. On a side note, those garden sprayer attachments are fucking useful, I used it with some leftover pressure washer soap to wash my outside equipment before bringing it into my grow area.

the kids... 32" they almost tripled in height since flowering 19 days ago so they're averaging about an inch per day.
http://i56.tinypic.com/oiu4hk.jpg

[lotek]

that shit always made me smile when they were growing >1/2in per day. i hung one of those tape high measures up on my wall. the ones by the exit at all stores/gas stations. it was cute lol

[lotek]

Posting modifications to the huge post i made. i posted it for revision on another site and it seems i skipped a few things.

microbes are not required, i wrote that leaves capture the o2 from co2, while it is the c that they capture. also dont let them wilt unless u have an awesome feel for them like i explain below.
thanks

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i do see that it was stupid to assume the microbes are essential, derp hydro. lol i forgot all about that. I, maybe ignorantly so, would assume all root evolution took place in microbe inhabited dirt or water and that it was inseperably involved in the natural selection of all root systems living today. extrapolating from there, this co-evolution would then be a vital part of plant stability. by trying to find a similar but controlled equilibrium should then be highly beneficial to plant health.

i misstyped that bit about them using o2 instead of c to build sugars, that is dumb.
aside from fungi not being required, is my summary of the effects correct as to the gain from healthy ecosystems?

i should have explained everything a bit more since it was pointed at a noob. i assumed some things would be known ;] i understand not to let it dry out totally, nor do i actually let them wilt. i was trying to allude to this with the bit about maybe leaving them for a dark period extra, i let them get to that point where they are responding only enough that the only way you can tell is cause youve been staring at the **** thing for 16wks straight. more of a, if i let my predictive mind take over i can tell they are wilting, but visually there is no obvious wilt."