How does an obese man lose weight and get big.

[Ron_Smythberg]

Basically my friend is giant, probably over four hundred pounds at about 5'11. For his own health he needs to lose weight.

From talking with him, he would like to be muscular. How would someone that big go about losing weight and becoming muscular? Would you have to go through a period of major weight loss and then after the weight is gone start bulking up or is it possible to both at the same time. I know that your body needs more calories when you are trying to build muscle so how does this tie in when you also need to lose a lot of fat?

Thanks for any help.

[niggers]

You need an excess of calories for you to build muscle, and a defecit to lose weight. Beginners to lifting can do both at the same time to a certain extent, but generally to build muscle you need a kind of bulking/fat loss cycle.

But as your friend has about 200-250lb of fat to lose, which will probably take around a couple of years, it's not even worth trying to start building muscle right now. Maybe when he has about 10-20lb left.

btw - it takes an asston of calories to maintain that much fat. So to begin with, your friend doesn't even need to really think about what he's doing so long as he's doing some basic exercise and cutting out the foods that are obviously bad for him.

[ysr2096]

It's pretty simple.

Get him doing cardio and make him eat less and better.

Worry about building muscle after he's lost the fat.

[Dread_Lord]

Basically my friend is giant, probably over four hundred pounds at about 5'11. For his own health he needs to lose weight.

From talking with him, he would like to be muscular. How would someone that big go about losing weight and becoming muscular? Would you have to go through a period of major weight loss and then after the weight is gone start bulking up or is it possible to both at the same time. I know that your body needs more calories when you are trying to build muscle so how does this tie in when you also need to lose a lot of fat?

Thanks for any help.

Ask this guy:
http://www1.webng.com/nunezeata/

[Ron_Smythberg]

Ask this guy:
http://www1.webng.com/nunezeata/

I made that a long time a go. I am deeply sorry for any offence to the obese or mentally handicapped it may have caused.

I have put all that hate behind me and I now see all humans as equals.

[Ron_Smythberg]

So I suppose the best strategy would be cardio eh? This guys fuckin arms are huge and he is strong, i'd hate to see that go.

[HLC]

No, the best strategy is not just to do cardio.
Why do so many posters here think he shouldn't be lifting from day one?
If he weighs over 400 pounds, his legs should be strong as fuck, just from walking and climbing stairs etc.
Those muscles will begin to shrink as he loses weight and the workload of moving his body decreases.
So he needs to pump iron to keep that muscle mass.
There's zero reason that I can think of to delay lifting.
500 Calories expended lifting is just as valid as 500 Calories burned during cardio.
There's nothing magical about Cardio for fat loss, but Cardio alone can lead to muscle loss.

[poast-bortem!]

Basically my friend is giant.

Nice to know you're giant. :thumbsup:

[ants in my poptarts]

get that fat shit on an exercise bike for as long as he can do it. the fat burn settings they have work real nice, cause resistance goes up or down depending on heart rate. It won't hurt his legs like running will. He probably isn't capable of running right? Try long walks and healthy diet. Dont worry about muscle until he's showing real progress, like a 50 pound lose. Then have him lift and do cardio

[Ron_Smythberg]

get that fat shit on an exercise bike for as long as he can do it. the fat burn settings they have work real nice, cause resistance goes up or down depending on heart rate. It won't hurt his legs like running will. He probably isn't capable of running right? Try long walks and healthy diet. Dont worry about muscle until he's showing real progress, like a 50 pound lose. Then have him lift and do cardio

Okay..

I suppose maybe 2500 Calories to start with diet?

[Proots]

Okay..

I suppose maybe 2500 Calories to start with diet?

I know this is off topic - but that website is priceless.

I sent it to all of my friends. Quite informative, quite interesting.

[Ron_Smythberg]

I know this is off topic - but that website is priceless.

I sent it to all of my friends. Quite informative, quite interesting.

Not really. It disgusts me to even look at it.

That was a period of my life I am quite ashamed of.

[ants in my poptarts]

Okay..

I suppose maybe 2500 Calories to start with diet?

yea sounds good, since he's obviously got an eating problem, get him eating lots of green vegatables, lean meat, things like that. I think part of dieting is just learning to control what your eating. With the exercise routine is key. He has to work out every day.

[ants in my poptarts]

Ask this guy:
http://www1.webng.com/nunezeata/

damn i'm not a fan of the obesity epidemic, but you don't know shiiiit
and what the fuck is up with the Mel Gibson photo???

[Ron_Smythberg]

damn i'm not a fan of the obesity epidemic, but you don't know shiiiit
and what the fuck is up with the Mel Gibson photo???

Pay no heed to that trash.

[ants in my poptarts]

Pay no heed to that trash.

i'll try...

[Sleep Is A Curse]

Why not have him train as a football player does. They seem to balance cardio and lifting.

[Mr.Happy]

He's gonna have a fuckload of extra skin once he loses all that weight. Once you get to a certain weight you can't just lose it and go back to normal.

[Ron_Smythberg]

He's gonna have a fuckload of extra skin once he loses all that weight. Once you get to a certain weight you can't just lose it and go back to normal.

Really? What could be done about this extra skin?

He is roughly about the size of this man.. maybe a tiny bit smaller:

http://www.allamericanpatriots.com/files/images/obese-man.jpg

[Vega]

Really? What could be done about this extra skin?


Surgery

[Mr.Happy]

Lose weight slowly and steadily, exercise, toning creams, I'unno. I'm no expert. Surgery as a last resort, sure. Don't expect it to be covered by insurance though, since it's considered cosmetic.

[AdamSmokesCrack]

Excess skin caused by mass weight loss can be removed surgically, but typically leaves some nasty scars. I know a woman who used to be around 350 pounds, lost ~200, and now has the most disgusting scars on her triceps and lower stomach I've ever seen, due to skin removal surgery.
On another note, the freaky skin-sagging is just something to deal with if he really wants to be healthy.
As someone else said, get him on an exercise bike. Most have "calories burned/hour" visuals, and timers as well, so you can get an accurate measure of the work you've done.
Once he's built up enough leg strength (not just one week of cycling, mind you) to go running, put his ass on a stairmaster or a treadmill.
You need to start slow, though. Don't give the guy a heart attack from putting the bike on 90% resistance and making him hit 240 heartbeats per minute. It'll be quite a long process, but it's possible for anyone to get into shape.
His diet should consist of green vegetables, any fruits that aren't excessively sugary, lean meat, and a lack of saturated and trans fats, as well as watching his sodium and cholesterol intake. Approximately 2500 calories in one day is what I did when I started bulking when I was at 140 pounds, so he might need a bit more than 2500, especially if he's hitting the gym hard. But it's important to create a calorie deficit to lose weight.
It would also help him stick with it if you hit the gym with him.
And. Er.
I guess that's it.

[Ron_Smythberg]

Excess skin caused by mass weight loss can be removed surgically, but typically leaves some nasty scars. I know a woman who used to be around 350 pounds, lost ~200, and now has the most disgusting scars on her triceps and lower stomach I've ever seen, due to skin removal surgery.
On another note, the freaky skin-sagging is just something to deal with if he really wants to be healthy.
As someone else said, get him on an exercise bike. Most have "calories burned/hour" visuals, and timers as well, so you can get an accurate measure of the work you've done.
Once he's built up enough leg strength (not just one week of cycling, mind you) to go running, put his ass on a stairmaster or a treadmill.
You need to start slow, though. Don't give the guy a heart attack from putting the bike on 90% resistance and making him hit 240 heartbeats per minute. It'll be quite a long process, but it's possible for anyone to get into shape.
His diet should consist of green vegetables, any fruits that aren't excessively sugary, lean meat, and a lack of saturated and trans fats, as well as watching his sodium and cholesterol intake. Approximately 2500 calories in one day is what I did when I started bulking when I was at 140 pounds, so he might need a bit more than 2500, especially if he's hitting the gym hard. But it's important to create a calorie deficit to lose weight.
It would also help him stick with it if you hit the gym with him.
And. Er.
I guess that's it.

Thanks for the tips.

If he were to get muscle do you think that could hide the excess skin?

[ants in my poptarts]

Thanks for the tips.

If he were to get muscle do you think that could hide the excess skin?

if he got real big
the stretch marks wont go away though, this guy has done some real damage to his body.

[AdamSmokesCrack]

Thanks for the tips.

If he were to get muscle do you think that could hide the excess skin?

It'd be possible to "fill in" the sagging skin with muscle over time, but the stretch marks would probably always be there :(
They have creams and lotions and shit that might help with stretch marks, but I'm not sure on how well they all work; I've never personally dealt with stretch marks.

[Ron_Smythberg]

It'd be possible to "fill in" the sagging skin with muscle over time, but the stretch marks would probably always be there :(
They have creams and lotions and shit that might help with stretch marks, but I'm not sure on how well they all work; I've never personally dealt with stretch marks.

Ok. Well I guess stretch marks are better then 250 pounds of extra weight.

Thanks for the help.

[ComradeAsh]

http://www.heartattackgrill.com/350.html

He could kick start his metabolism.

[postdiluvium]

I didn't read all the post, so I may be repeating something that has already been said. Tell your "friend" to start off with simple stretching and low impact cardio. If your friend weighs that much at 5'11", hes going to have start by just making sure he has some flexibility and motion control. He doesn't necessarily have to lose weight, but just be able to just stretch, do simple low impact movements, and a little bit of endurance (It doesn't have to be a lot).

Since the end result is a muscular body, your friend might as well start as soon as he is sure he can perform the exercises correctly. The main focus will be doing the most simplest weight exercises (squats, press, bench press, and dead lifts) that hit the most muscles when doing them. Your friend is a bit heavy, so he'll have to start with just body weight or just a bar with no weight on it. The point is to gain muscle at a faster than usual rate. This is because using muscle burns calories. Hitting as many muscles as you can translates to burning as much calories as you can in a given period of time. Eventually your friend will start building muscle mass. The more mass that your friend gets translates to more muscles burning calories.

Tell him to actually look up what a balanced diet is and then turn it into his own. That alone will make him start shedding weight. However, make sure he starts adding weight to those basic exercises before he loses too much weight as he will have a body that will be able to handle moving up on lifting weight better than... lets say... someone with a skinny narrow figure. Lifting requires a good center of gravity and your friend should have a very good low center of gravity. Where as skinny narrow people can fall over more easily due to having higher center of gravities.

And do not neglect the low impact cardio. Tell him not too much of it as he should be spending most of his energy on lifting more weight. The faster he gets those muscles, the sooner those muscles can start burning all of that excess energy he has stored in his body.

Added - Excess cardio to lose body fat is a myth for fat people. Unless that fat person actually runs marathons, he won't have the ability to take in the amounts of oxygen that is required to start metabolizing all of that fat. The whole process requires endurance training. Obviously, if someone such as your friend gets to the weight that they are at, they either have no experience with endurance training or they just haven't done it in so long that their body no longer processes oxygen like that anymore. Most bodies will burn glycogen before even touching body fat. Mostly likely your friend fits under that general category of body type. Which is why I do not emphasize cardio in this post all that much.

[HLC]

....

Added - Excess cardio to lose body fat is a myth for fat people. Unless that fat person actually runs marathons, he won't have the ability to take in the amounts of oxygen that is required to start metabolizing all of that fat. The whole process requires endurance training. Obviously, if someone such as your friend gets to the weight that they are at, they either have no experience with endurance training or they just haven't done it in so long that their body no longer processes oxygen like that anymore. Most bodies will burn glycogen before even touching body fat. Mostly likely your friend fits under that general category of body type. Which is why I do not emphasize cardio in this post all that much.

You and I are in agreement about weight training from the start.
But I have to disagree with your paragraph above.
Fat burning is the fuel of low effort for everyone. Glycogen is the fuel of higher effort. The more trained you are, the greater the work you can do that is still rated as "low effort".
While you're sort of saying that, I should point out that while you sit in a chair or slow walk, or sleep, etc., fat will be the primary fuel used.
Fat requires oxygen to burn, as you pointed out, so when you're breathing nice and easy, that is a period of "adequate" oxygen intake and thus there is enough oxygen to burn fat.
Nobody needs to have experience with endurance training to burn fat, as it is the fuel for low level activity. This fat friend probably burns fat and processes oxygen just as well as any other human during low level work.

Maybe I'm just misreading what you meant.

[postdiluvium]

You and I are in agreement about weight training from the start.
But I have to disagree with your paragraph above.
Fat burning is the fuel of low effort for everyone. Glycogen is the fuel of higher effort. The more trained you are, the greater the work you can do that is still rated as "low effort".
While you're sort of saying that, I should point out that while you sit in a chair or slow walk, or sleep, etc., fat will be the primary fuel used.
Fat requires oxygen to burn, as you pointed out, so when you're breathing nice and easy, that is a period of "adequate" oxygen intake and thus there is enough oxygen to burn fat.
Nobody needs to have experience with endurance training to burn fat, as it is the fuel for low level activity. This fat friend probably burns fat and processes oxygen just as well as any other human during low level work.

Maybe I'm just misreading what you meant.

You maybe right. I don't really know much about low level activity. I just know that during distance running, metabolizing fat seems to be a last resort the body kicks into if all of the glycogen stores are nearing nil. And for someone to do something like that, they would have to have the endurance necessary to even deplete their glycogen storage. I don't know, I've just been studying up on training to train ones body to actually prefer metabolizing fat over glycogen. I just want to train my body to gain the endurance for an ultra marathon without spending years upon years building up my body's potential for glycogen storage (ending almost every run with an exhausting uphill run), lactic threshold (using beta alanine for that), and VO2 max (have been running breathing through a straw for that).

From what I've been reading, it seems kind of impossible for obese people to just lose weight doing Tae Bo or any of those products from the infomercials that emphasize cardio over resistance/weight training. Also just looked at the Stronglift 5x5 program. OP may want to look into it as it promotes weight lifting and little cardio.

http://stronglifts.com/

It seems this program is not about making money. They posted their whole ebook on their website for free:

http://stronglifts.com/files/stronglifts-5x5.pdf

[HLC]

One is always burning fat as they exercise and as they rest.
During hard exercise, fat will not be the dominant fuel in the hardest working muscles, but muscles not working hard will continue to burn fat.
You can run out of glycogen, as you've noted, but that's not when you "finally" switch over to fat burning.
You've been burning fat all along, but you may have just run out of the other fuels you were using (glycogen).

Your workout ending sprint, BTW, is probably working on improving your creatine phosphate stores more than glycogen.

regarding fat people losing weight, via exercise ...
My take is most obese people have a pretty similar physiology to everyone else.
Okay, maybe some have some sort of metabolic challenge (thyroid etc), but I personally think the majority don't.
I think Tae Bo would work on them as well (or as poorly) as the rest of the population.
The best exercise will be one the exerciser enjoys and actually does.

[Cuban]

Well, like they say, abs are made in the kitchen, meaning you can't outrun a bad diet, thus, exercise should be a supplement to healthy eating. You may be surprised what healthy eating actually is. If you really want to get thin, and naturally, you need to cut out carbohydrates. http://www.zeroinginonhealth.com This is a great source of information on healthy (zero/low-carb, carnivorous) eating.

[JANUS]

Starve him. Give him only one plate of food every two days. Make him drink plenty of water (gallon or more), but only every third day in a single sitting. Scare him or put him in high-stress situations for prolonged periods. I suggest imprisoning him or putting him in some sort of concentration camp. When he has lost half his weight, he will be healthy enough to start doing heavy labor. And remember, give him supplement pills regularly, because you don't want him to die.

[Ron_Smythberg]

Starve him. Give him only one plate of food every two days. Make him drink plenty of water (gallon or more), but only every third day in a single sitting. Scare him or put him in high-stress situations for prolonged periods. I suggest imprisoning him or putting him in some sort of concentration camp. When he has lost half his weight, he will be healthy enough to start doing heavy labor. And remember, give him supplement pills regularly, because you don't want him to die.

There was a day when I would have agreed with you.

Fortunately, I have matured with time and understand that brutal force like such you speak is wrong, and evil. Only through peace and understanding may the world be healed.


Thanks to everyone else for the advice. I have been busy and actually have not read every post, although I did read the post which mentioned cardio is useless for someone of this size...

I will post a better reply after I get some sleep.