Republicans release budget plan

[Rocko]

http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/mar/27/house-republicans-draw-up-budget-plan-without-numb/

Taking Obama's "So where's your budget?" bait, the Republicans have released an 18-page pamphlet with no deficit projections, no budget total, and indeed no numbers at all save for another MASSIVE tax cut for rich people, which surpasses even what Bush did. So basically their plan to save the nation is, unsurprisingly, to say no to anything and everything Obama suggests, and to go back to the policies of the last 8 years that got us into this.

Congratulations, guys, you let yourselves get teased into doing something massively idiotic again. :facepalm:

[Vargus]

Republicans release budget plan

You refered to it without quotes as it had any sort of legitimacy. :p

As an entire party, can the Republicans sink any lower?

[skyclaw441]

If the future of the Republican party are far right wingnuts like Sarah Palin and Bobby Jindhal, I'm not listening to one word they say.

[freeRadical]

http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/mar/27/house-republicans-draw-up-budget-plan-without-numb/

Taking Obama's "So where's your budget?" bait, the Republicans have released an 18-page pamphlet with no deficit projections, no budget total, and indeed no numbers at all save for another MASSIVE tax cut for rich people.

I"m sorry to burst your bubble buddy, but that plan called for across-the-board tax cuts.

"But on the budget, tax reform appeared to be the only area in which Republicans were ready to offer specific ideas. Their plan would set income tax rates of 10 percent for those making less than $100,000 a year and make the set highest rate at 25 percent, down from the current 36 percent."

Do you know what the current tax rates are?

Single Filing Status
(Tax Rate Schedule X)
10% on income between $0 and $8,350

15% on the income between $8,350 and $33,950; plus $835

25% on the income between $33,950 and $82,250; plus $4,675

28% on the income between $82,250 and $171,550; plus $16,750

33% on the income between $171,550 and $372,950; plus $41,754

35% on the income over $372,950; plus $108,216

Married Filing Jointly or Qualifying Widow(er) Filing Status
(Tax Rate Schedule Y-1)
10% on the income between $0 and $16,700

15% on the income between $16,700 and $67,900; plus $1,670

25% on the income between $67,900 and $137,050; plus $9,350

28% on the income between $137,050 and $208,850; plus $26,637.50

33% on the income between $208,850 and $372,950; plus $46,741.50

35% on the income over $372,950; plus $100,894.50

Married Filing Separately Filing Status
(Tax Rate Schedule Y-2)
10% on the income between $0 and $8,350

15% on the income between $8,350 and $33,950; plus $835

25% on the income between $33,950 and $68,525; plus $4,675

28% on the income between $68,525 and $104,425; plus $13,318.75

33% on the income between $104,425 and $186,475; plus $23,370.75

35% on the income over $186,475; plus $50,447.25

Head of Household Filing Status
(Tax Rate Schedule Z)
10% on the income between $0 and $11,950

15% on the income between $11,950 and $45,500; plus $1,195

25% on the income between $45,500 and $117,450; plus $6,227.50

28% on the income between $117,450 and $190,200; plus $24,215

33% on the income between $190,200 and $372,950; plus $44,585

35% on the income over $372,950; plus $104,892.50

source: http://taxes.about.com/od/2009taxes/qt/2009_tax_rates.htm

^^^That's highway robbery of you ask me.

[Vargus]

I'd be more than willing to be in the %35 tax bracket instead of %10.

[freeRadical]

I'd be more than willing to be in the %35 tax bracket instead of %10.

What?

[Vargus]

What?

I am currently in the %10 tax bracket. I would love to make so much money that I would have to be getting it taxed in the %35 range.

[Rocko]

I am currently in the %10 tax bracket. I would love to make so much money that I would have to be getting it taxed in the %35 range.

Hell yeah. That's a shit ton of money.

[Captain Politik]

ppl dont realize under bush America prospered IMMENSELY until this bullshit recession which coulda been stopped.

Now Bush allowed the rich to get richer which is NO problem with me. If the rich get richer that simply means America benefits, more jobs since they will open up more business, plus more money invested.

Idiots of America dont fucking realize how important rich people are considering taxes.

[TruthWielder]

ITT: People that think the Democrat party is doing a good job as they spend more money than the cumulative budget of the HISTORY of the United States. lol, goodbye America.

:picard:

[Struwwelpeter]

How fitting that America would rot under it's first black president.

Did anyone watch the news this morning? Obama talking about his new plan to ship a few thousand troops in to the middle east in order to free their people. He's nothing more than a black Bush. People are out here losing their jobs and their minds as well and he's concerned about a bunch of desert dwellers. It's insulting to have him give what seemed to be an hour+ long speech about those people when the guy down the street just shot himself after he got laid off.

[Former FBI Agent]

ppl dont realize under bush America prospered IMMENSELY until this bullshit recession which coulda been stopped.

Elaborate please.

[Captain Politik]

- Economic growth. U.S. output has expanded faster than in most advanced economies since 2000. The IMF reports that real U.S. gross domestic product (GDP) grew at an average annual rate of 2.2% over the period 2001-2008 (including its forecast for the current year). President Bush will leave to his successor an economy 19% larger than the one he inherited from President Clinton. This U.S. expansion compares with 14% by France, 13% by Japan and just 8% by Italy and Germany over the same period. The latest ICP findings, published by the World Bank in its World Development Indicators 2008, also show that GDP per capita in the U.S. reached $41,813 (in purchasing power parity dollars) in 2005. This was a third higher than the United Kingdom's, 37% above Germany's and 38% more than Japan's.

- Household consumption. The ICP study found that the average per-capita consumption of the U.S. population (citizens and illegal immigrants combined) was second only to Luxembourg's, out of 146 countries covered in 2005. The U.S. average was $32,045. This was well above the levels in the UK ($25,155), Canada ($23,526), France ($23,027) and Germany ($21,742). China stood at $1,751.


http://www.dkosopedia.com/wiki/Economy_Under_George_W_Bush


The dow went from 7.7k after 911 + dotcom burst to over 14,000 in a few years before declining in the last 5 months of his term.

Id say we were MUCH better off under bush than we are now under Obama and like I said before theres nohting wrong with teh rich of america getting richer.

[PooPfish]

Id say we were MUCH better off under bush than we are now under Obama and like I said before theres nohting wrong with teh rich of america getting richer.

Clinton started the economic growth, Bush ended it. These changes don't happen overnight, but conservatives will continue to call this Obama's recession..

[Dichromate]

ppl dont realize under bush America prospered IMMENSELY until this bullshit recession which coulda been stopped.

Now Bush allowed the rich to get richer which is NO problem with me. If the rich get richer that simply means America benefits, more jobs since they will open up more business, plus more money invested.

Idiots of America dont fucking realize how important rich people are considering taxes.

Nice trolling there.

[Dichromate]

Clinton started the economic growth, Bush ended it. These changes don't happen overnight, but conservatives will continue to call this Obama's recession..

http://www.midasletter.com/images/0901202.gif
(for some reason the fed site is unreachable for me at the moment, but the graph is from the US federal reserve).

See that green line? it's outstanding private sector (business and consumer) debt. The measure of public sector debt there doesn't actually measure liabilities like medicaid, medicare and social security so grossly understates the reality. The total private and public sector debt is somewhere in the vicinity of 360% of GDP NOT INCLUDING THOSE OBLIGATIONS.

The USA has taken a good 30 years to de-industrialize and utterly cluster-fuck itself. This isn't Bush's recession and the 90s weren't some magical golden age that bush ruined. It's been a long and scenic march to where the united states is now.

This didn't start with bush, it started in earnest with Reagan.

[Dichromate]

- Economic growth. U.S. output has expanded faster than in most advanced economies since 2000. The IMF reports that real U.S. gross domestic product (GDP) grew at an average annual rate of 2.2% over the period 2001-2008 (including its forecast for the current year). President Bush will leave to his successor an economy 19% larger than the one he inherited from President Clinton. This U.S. expansion compares with 14% by France, 13% by Japan and just 8% by Italy and Germany over the same period. The latest ICP findings, published by the World Bank in its World Development Indicators 2008, also show that GDP per capita in the U.S. reached $41,813 (in purchasing power parity dollars) in 2005. This was a third higher than the United Kingdom's, 37% above Germany's and 38% more than Japan's.

- Household consumption. The ICP study found that the average per-capita consumption of the U.S. population (citizens and illegal immigrants combined) was second only to Luxembourg's, out of 146 countries covered in 2005. The U.S. average was $32,045. This was well above the levels in the UK ($25,155), Canada ($23,526), France ($23,027) and Germany ($21,742). China stood at $1,751.


http://www.dkosopedia.com/wiki/Economy_Under_George_W_Bush


The dow went from 7.7k after 911 + dotcom burst to over 14,000 in a few years before declining in the last 5 months of his term.

Id say we were MUCH better off under bush than we are now under Obama and like I said before theres nohting wrong with teh rich of america getting richer.

If I make $20,000 a year and on top of that I borrow $2000, my consumption is $22,000.

If next year I still make $20,000, pay $200 in interest, and borrow $4200, I'm consuming $24,000 worth of goods and services.

Next year I still make $20,000, pay $620 in interest, and borrow $6820.
WOO! $26,000!

Ain't growth awesome?
This isn't getting into the fucked up asset bubbles, but it still basically describes how you have, as a nation, totally fucked yourselves.
Once the economy starts seriously contracting, the %360 of GDP debt is going to blow out.
Even a 10% fall in GDP means the ratio blows out to %400 of GDP.

The government *wishes* they could trigger hyperinflation, which is a much nicer solution to this than the other, more likely one - cascading defaults and economic collapse.

[Launchpad]

I find it funny that 'evil hippy Liberal' economists like Paul Krugman have ben forecasting just this kind of collapse for 2 or 3 years now...

Here's O'Reilly 'arguing' or shouting at, Krugman about how Krugman was 'dead wrong' that the Bush tax cuts would be disastrous for the economy - from 2006
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUOFTPbxuWA

Here's Hannity lambasting Kutner for his book 'Obama's Challenge' - note 3:20 when he starts 'spewing' (in his own words) about how the economy is great, keep in mind this was in Sept. 2008 - AFTER things had already clearly been going downhill.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8bsIjGcZyI

These idiots are the people in charge of the GOP. After the tax-cut strategy already massively failed the economy and Reagan era econ policy is being further refuted by the current crisis it is a joke to think that they would even think about putting forward this same tired idea again wrapped in a new package that is the Republican 'budget plan'.

As a student of finance, I can tell you that the course material regarding standard economic thought of the past 4 decades is literally being re-written. Much of the material that would have been taught 3 or 4 years ago is now obsolete as it has been proven wrong by the current crisis. The days of allowing the Wall St. wizards to create complicated derivatives and mathematical formulas for risk-free investment are long gone, evaporated in the smoke of a collapsed housing market and big banks teetering on the edge.

I'm not saying that Obama's plan is excellent - I'm not even saying it will work...at this point it will take luck as much as anything to make any plan work. However, it is LITERALLY the only option you have.

[PooPfish]

O'reilly is such a bitch, won't even let Krugman talk without interruption for the first 2:30

[Yggdrasil]

The GOP has given up on making intelligent policies to counter those of the Democrats. Instead, they're turning to accommodate to the lowest common denominator through, in Rush "fat piece of shit" Limbaugh's own words, "Guns, babies and Jesus"

Utter, complete :facepalm:

[Vladibus]

How can any of you you justify a 4 trillion dollar budget with a defecit per year of a trillion dollars? This is what Obama's plan is going to cost. And how is Obamas plan the only option? The more he spends the more people are getting fed up with him already. People are on the verge of revolting... there are tea parties going on in the country look it up.

[Rocko]

The GOP has given up on making intelligent policies to counter those of the Democrats. Instead, they're turning to accommodate to the lowest common denominator through, in Rush "fat piece of shit" Limbaugh's own words, "Guns, babies and Jesus"

Utter, complete :facepalm:

If that fat piece of shit really is the next leader of the Republican party, we're all fucked. :facepalm:

This whole Republican budget thing tells me that even though Obama is proposing an insane amount of spending, the Republicans are too incompetent to come up with a genuine, intelligent alternative and instead just release a stupid little pamphlet that says "Well, we're just gonna have to say no to all of that."

So, from my point of view, they're just going to let the Democrats railroad it through without any Republican votes instead of making the effort to point out what they do and don't like about Obama's budget, instead of planting their feet and saying "We hate you, we hate everything you do, and you're not getting our votes." Just like those stupid children do every time a Democrat is in office.

[Dichromate]

How can any of you you justify a 4 trillion dollar budget with a defecit per year of a trillion dollars? This is what Obama's plan is going to cost. And how is Obamas plan the only option? The more he spends the more people are getting fed up with him already. People are on the verge of revolting... there are tea parties going on in the country look it up.

Oh fuck that tea party bullshit.
People are on the verge of lynching bankers, not re-enacting the bits of Atlas Shrugged that Young Republicans cream their pants while reading.

Also, Obama is a house trained establishment nigger.

[Captain Politik]

Oh fuck that tea party bullshit.
People are on the verge of lynching bankers, not re-enacting the bits of Atlas Shrugged that Young Republicans cream their pants while reading.

Also, Obama is a house trained establishment nigger.

yea because that worthless nigger has gotten everyone to focus on CEO's and bankers which is bullshit now obama is going to look like the savior while walstreet looks like the crooks when Obama has to take some of the blame also

fucking nigger

[Launchpad]

yea because that worthless nigger has gotten everyone to focus on CEO's and bankers which is bullshit now obama is going to look like the savior while walstreet looks like the crooks when Obama has to take some of the blame also

fucking nigger

How so? How does Obama have to take some of the blame if he has only been in office for 2 months?

[Dichromate]

How so? How does Obama have to take some of the blame if he has only been in office for 2 months?

Because he's a democrat duh, what are you fucking stupid or something?
:rolleyes:

[Dichromate]

As a student of finance, I can tell you that the course material regarding standard economic thought of the past 4 decades is literally being re-written. Much of the material that would have been taught 3 or 4 years ago is now obsolete as it has been proven wrong by the current crisis. The days of allowing the Wall St. wizards to create complicated derivatives and mathematical formulas for risk-free investment are long gone, evaporated in the smoke of a collapsed housing market and big banks teetering on the edge.


These are the same finance departments that have been teaching CAPM for a good 30 years, right?
I mean seriously, that didn't even need to be proven wrong by real life events - it never even came close to working in the first place.

It's one thing to be teaching a theory that explains only a small part of the total variability in real world data, but it’s quite another to teach one that really ought to be rejected based on F statistics.

[postdiluvium]

Actually the Republican Leadership will be releasing their plan this week. That pamphlet they released this past week was just to criticize The Administration's plans for the budget and to tell their remaining base that they still have the same ideals birthed in the 80's with Reagen before his second term. Take notice that this is not a Republican Plan. Its the Leadership's plan. Many Republicans seem to be annoyed by this move the leadership has made as Democrats were starting to eat their own. This move should have been done at some point, but at the time when the Democratic Party was starting to split? Idiotic. Now the Democratic Party will unite because of this stupid, premature move.

I just want a viable third party to start growing from the local to state to federal level. No more of this, "Lets just appear every 4 years and gun straight for the White House" bullshit. Both Republicans and Democrats have proven they can't handle running this country. They are too entrenched in their traditional party roles and addicted to the power they have had, to even keep up with us, the American people providing them the seats and power they have. We change with technology and information and they still talk to us like we are in the 50s. Fucking ass holes. I also don't give a shit about tax breaks. I'm happy to pay my taxes as long as these ass holes aren't in charge of it. I'm paying them to keep this country going, not for them to figure out how to get the stock market to bubble up again.

[Launchpad]

These are the same finance departments that have been teaching CAPM for a good 30 years, right?
I mean seriously, that didn't even need to be proven wrong by real life events - it never even came close to working in the first place.

It's one thing to be teaching a theory that explains only a small part of the total variability in real world data, but it’s quite another to teach one that really ought to be rejected based on F statistics.

Touché..to me it seems like they were only teaching the other shit because it showed people how best to make $120 000 at 22 years old after 4 years of college...It didn't matter if the shit 'really worked' as long as it looked like it was working...as long as Ivy League schools keep pumping 'top rate' students into high paying Wall St., Bay St. or London Financial district jobs every year.

[Riotupfront]

Why the fuck are you guys bitching about Republicans? I was happy when Obama got elected so you fucking liberals would finally stop bitching but you are STILL bitching. Do everyone a favor and shut the hell up, please.

[supperrfreek]

The GOP has given up on making intelligent policies to counter those of the Democrats. Instead, they're turning to accommodate to the lowest common denominator through, in Rush "fat piece of shit" Limbaugh's own words, "Guns, babies and Jesus"

Utter, complete :facepalm:

In short: where are Barry Goldwater, William F. Buckley, Robert Taft and Ronald Reagan when we need them? There hasn't been someone we could point to and say "wow he's conservative" since Ronald Reagan (he even knew the real meaning of reaching across the aisle: not kowtowing to democrats, but making compromises that aren't big enough to hurt the overall tone of legislation).
I just want a viable third party to start growing from the local to state to federal level. No more of this, "Lets just appear every 4 years and gun straight for the White House" bullshit.
There was Ross Perot, but now he's gone. The problem is that neither party is endorsing sound policies: monetary stability, isolationist foreign policy, endorsing competition in the economy as opposed to babying companies that they see as "too big to fail" and keeping small farmers on their plots to compete with ConAgra and company. The economy doesn't need an overhaul, it just needs to be more Darwinian - people want to teach evolution in schools- the stock market is the perfect laboratory - adapt and survive: good business practices lead to healthy, long lasting companies, bad practices lead to failure.

[PooPfish]

Why the fuck are you guys bitching about Republicans? I was happy when Obama got elected so you fucking liberals would finally stop bitching but you are STILL bitching. Do everyone a favor and shut the hell up, please.

You must be new to politics, you have to realize the bitching will never stop, even if both parties were doing everything perfectly. That's why politics are one-sided and idiotic, people get so lost in their parties idea of right and wrong, they forget their own opinions.

[postdiluvium]

Why the fuck are you guys bitching about Republicans? I was happy when Obama got elected so you fucking liberals would finally stop bitching but you are STILL bitching. Do everyone a favor and shut the hell up, please.

I think every poll conducted on the politics forum here and totse showed that most of the posters are Libertarian. Individual rights (guns and drugs mostly) and poor tax spending. A lot of us are worried about those two issues, which kind of separates us from modern liberals.