Concentrating hydrogen peroxide

[InspiredByMe]

I thought it might be fun to see what you guys think of this.

30% H2O2 is commonly used in the lab but 3% is sold much cheaper. There are 3 ways I can think of that may be possible to concentrate it.

Distillation: The bad part of this is the fumes of H2O2 detonate at 70*C, correct me if I am wrong. Perhaps putting a beaker filled with the 3% into boiling water?

Freezing: Freezing the 3% solution in a shallow dish to freeze the water only. I have tried this one but could not tell any difference in the percentage. It is possible some hydrogen peroxide was frozen with it.

Evaporation: You can get up to 65%, I've heard, using this method. But the downside is that dust particles and other crap will land on it.

No, I will not be making organic peroxides. What's the best method for doing this, if you have tried, with success?

[nuclearrabbit]

You sure you wont be making AP? ;)

I boiled my shit. Well, I double boiled it. Fill a jar with 1L of 3% and cook it 'til it's 100mL. If my math is good that'll get you 30%.

[InspiredByMe]

You sure you wont be making AP? ;)

I boiled my shit. Well, I double boiled it. Fill a jar with 1L of 3% and cook it 'til it's 100mL. If my math is good that'll get you 30%.

Positive. I don't trust organic peroxides, unless you stabilize them.

I have tried double boiling before but only got it to about 20%, for fear of the fumes detonating.

[nuclearrabbit]

Positive. I don't trust organic peroxides, unless you stabilize them.

I have tried double boiling before but only got it to about 20%, for fear of the fumes detonating.

You're safe brozilla. AP, HMTD, MEKP, they ain't so bad. I abused AP quite harshly and it never retaliated.

[InspiredByMe]

I'm going to use it for a peroxide gel explosive, a little different than the normal H2O2:al and guar gum one. I am going to use H2O2 and Magnalium with guar gum. I have some leftover magnalium from when I made it using the cocktail shaker method. The problem is I ran out of my normal 30% but have about 4L of the 3% laying around.

Also I have heard of using sparging, is there anyway to do this at home?

[nuclearrabbit]

Oh ho, peroxide watergel. :D Axt did some work with this shit. http://sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=3214

Anyways, vacuum distillation is the only way you're gonna get over ~30% at home. Pretty easy to do actually.

[The Jitterskull]

Do it in a dark room. Peroxides under light tend to form radicals. You don't need that on your skin...

[nuclearrabbit]

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/3968/aidzcd9.jpg
I fingered a Vegas hooker.

[stateofhack]

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/3968/aidzcd9.jpg
I fingered a Vegas hooker.

ouch.:(

[Irukanji]

Finger tips hurt like a bitch when you burn them :/

Took me 500mg of paracetamol and 30mg codeine just to get to sleep(drowsy ones ftw)....feels weird the next day trying to pick stuff up.

[asilentbob]

H2SO4 + BaO2 ---> H2O2 + BaSO4
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barium_peroxide
It is NOT used it fireworks, much too reactive. It is probably used in tracers for bullets or some military crap.

"Formerly inorganic processes were used, employing the electrolysis of an aqueous solution of sulfuric acid or acidic ammonium bisulfate (NH4HSO4), followed by hydrolysis of the peroxydisulfate ((SO4)2)2− which is formed.

In 2009, a new process of producing hydrogen peroxide using gold-palladium nanoparticles has been reported. This process claims to be inexpensive, efficient, and environmental friendly.[8][9]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_peroxide

Edit: It might be worth mentioning that (sodium or potassium, I can't remember) persulfate is available at Fry's electronics... Circuit board etching applications...

[The Jitterskull]

OP:

Look up sodium sulfate. Na2SO4 I think is a really good anhydrous agent. We use it in org chem labs all the time.
What does it do? It binds to water creating a precipitate. You could add tons of this until all your water is absorbed. Note, you will need lots. I mean, LOTS if you really want to isolate peroxide. Per a bottle? I seriously expect like 10+ handful's of Na2SO4. That is both hands cupped.

Some problems:
1) I don't know if H2O2 will react to Na2SO4 as well
2) Peroxide is really dangerous. In the presence of light, it splits and acts as a free radical.


Be really careful. I can't imagine how volatile 100% H2O2 would be. Please refer to the MSDS chart below:
www.h2o2.com/intro/FMC_MSDS_40_to_60.pdf

Also note, the MSDS for H2O2 says it boils at ~110 deg C. There is no flashpoint since it is apparently non-combustible. This is news to me.

[Dread_Lord]

Hydrogen peroxide [7722-84-11 M 34.0, d 1.110, pK25 11.65. The 30% material has been steam
distilled using distilled water. Gross and Taylor [J Am Chem Soc 72 2075 19501 made 90% H202
approximately 0.001M in NaOH and then distilled under its own vapour pressure, keeping the temperature
below 40°, the receiver being cooled with a Dry-ice/isopropyl alcohol mush. The 98% material has been
rendered anhydrous by repeated fractional crystn in all-quartz vessels. EXPLOSIVE IN CONTACT WITH
ORGANIC MATERIAL.

[InspiredByMe]

I'll try doing the isolation of the peroxide. I have about 3lbs of sodium bisulfate that I use in place of sulfuric. After I isolate the peroxide should I drain off all the water then bubble hydrogen through the peroxide/water solution? Also if I only wanted 30% I wouldn't drain off all the water, right?

[Thermal]

After I isolate the peroxide should I drain off all the water then bubble hydrogen through the peroxide/water solution? Also if I only wanted 30% I wouldn't drain off all the water, right?
:eek: Why not just bubbling dry air through h2o2 via airpump+Utube+desiccant ? sparg it down!

And if you want to check the concentration of your h2o2 at any point you can for example take a known quantity of a reactant that bond with hydrogen in h2o2 and capture the o2 in a reverted water filled grad cyli and convert ml of o2 into moles and the g's of reactant... well thats high school chemistry im sure get the point :D

[InspiredByMe]

:eek: Why not just bubbling dry air through h2o2 via airpump+Utube+desiccant ? sparg it down!

And if you want to check the concentration of your h2o2 at any point you can for example take a known quantity of a reactant that bond with hydrogen in h2o2 and capture the o2 in a reverted water filled grad cyli and convert ml of o2 into moles and the g's of reactant... well thats high school chemistry im sure get the point :D

I already mentioned sparging...and yes I know molar equations.

I was going to use Mno2 for testing the concentration, very miniscule amounts though. Isolating the peroxide is a way I've never tried, sounds interesting.

[asilentbob]

Simple drying agents are likely to react with the peroxide as well if added to the solution. You have to remember that the peroxide O-O bond is VERY weak. If your going to try using anhydrous sodium sulfate or whatnot, don't you think you should try to find a patent or some other source of info before hand? Also metal and metal compounds tend to catalyze the decomposition anyways.

You could always try putting a dish of peroxide in a desiccator with concentrated sulfuric acid as the desiccant (not in the same dish)... In the dark... For a few months. BUT if your dish isn't clean you might decompose all your peroxide anyways.