Last Night

[Darkhunter]

Last night I was called up by a friend of mine to go get some food at Burger King before we smoked up so we'd have the food for after. Along the way we get pulled over and the cop asks for both our IDs. A few minutes go by and then the cops come back and asks for my friend to come with him and for me to get out of the car, go to the back of the car and place my hands on the trunk while hovering his hand over his gun.

So eventually he searches me and after finding nothing he wanted to find he tells me I can turn around and face him. He first hands my ID back to me and tells me my friend had a suspended license and wanted to know if I could drive his car back to campus as my friend had given me permission to do so. So I was about to when he said he wanted to search the car.

I get nervous but say "Ok" in my best non scared voice; my friend keeps a half Oz. in his center console. Cop found it. He goes to throw the cuffs on me and bring me back to my friend while I'm yelling "I have no fucking idea that was in there." Eventually my friend owns up to it.

Cop brings me up front and tells me that my friend's car will be towed to a lot and gives me two cards, one with the lot info for my friend when he gets out and one for my friend as he was going to jail and if I wanted to bail him out I had 4 hours to do so before they locked up for the weekend (It was around 11 pm.) Then he tells me my friend was also wanted in the questioning of two rapes and the half oz will have him under watch for drug trafficking and due to this when they take him in they are going to search his room.

He then told me that he searched my record and came up with nothing as I didn't have one except an incident back when I was a minor and that isn't a felony so he didn't press it. He said that due to that he believes I didn't know about the drugs and through I really was going to get food like we were planning on. He told me to avoid my friend as long as I could and to not tell him of what he told me because if my friend found out and starts asking questions the cop would find me and arrest me for the half oz charge.

The cop then talked to me, made me take a sobriety test to prove I was under control and made me walk 2 miles back to campus. When I got back to campus I called my good friend to pick me up and together we broke into the first friends house and raided the place of all the paraphernalia we could find and drugs and loaded them up. We also took enough for bail and towing charges and headed out.

We dropped the drugs off in my dorm room and headed out to bail my first friend out. We bailed him out and he got all pissed that I didn't take his car. I gave him the money to pay for the towing and then he started yelling at me saying the cop told him I ratted on him and if he signed a form he'd get a deal for less time, etc..... I told my friend it was cop BS. I told him the cop had some dirt on him for the pot and tagged his car and when we went by him he went for him.

After a few minutes we all calmed down and smoked an 1/4th as we wanted to clear the evidence. After that he told me to hang onto his stuff until this blows over and he'd be back for it later.

TL;DR: Now my question is should I tell my friend about what the cops know about him? If I do then if the cop finds out I go down for marijuana possession of a half oz which is enough to get me kicked from living on campus for violating drug laws. That would suck because if I moved back home and my dad found out about this I'm sure he'd kill me.

[all_for_war]

i didn't even read it and i said no...

Edit: oops thought the poll question was..Should i tell the cops about what i know about my friend...sorry i should of said yes.dont let the government take control of you, have some back bone for fucks sake.

[Yggdrasil]

Not at all, don't tell. Your friend is your friend, but you can't be putting yourself in jeopardy for something that wasn't even your fault, for something that happened because someone (your friend) failed to hide his drugs well enough for cops to not find them. Next time, try cutting a hole under the passenger's seat, so as to hide the drugs inside.

[Psynthetic]

I really don't see how you could be charged after the fact, and when the charge is already on your friend. Plus how are they going to find out you told him unless he tells them so? Not much he can do at this point anyways, besides prepare himself better for his reaction to their accusations.

So why's your buddy rapin' broads?

[The Better Version]

Personally I would do a balancing test. Does potentially getting yourself in deep shit outweigh the fact that your friend would have a better chance of getting out of his mess with foreknowledge that he will be questioned and watched? You might want to also consider the possibility (a good possibility I might add) that he'll get in trouble either way.

Personally I don't think its worth it because if he did in fact rape someone then he raped someone and he'll probably get in trouble whether he knows beforehand that he'll be questioned or not. The fact that you warned him would only give him a little more of an advantage and I just don't think its worth it if the price is putting yourself on the line. I mean you did the right thing and bailed your friend out and you did an even better thing by moving all of his incriminating stuff to your place (I'd like to note that you might want to hide that stuff elsewhere not only because its stupid to have that stuff on you on a college campus but also because this cop stuff can come right back to you and if you have all of this stuff in your place if they ever knock on your door, thats putting yourself on the line). Anyway if you know anyone else who isn't necessarily friends with your friend who got in trouble that would be a good place or someone who lives off campus who has no affiliation with the matter.

Just advise your friend to get a good lawyer and don't talk to any cops without one and not to deal with any large drug transactions, especially if it requires leaving the states but don't tell him you know anything.

[Harry Tuttle]

just tell your friend the truth. tell him the cops know about him and tell him if he starts asking questions the cops will come for you. i'm sure he will understand. and if the cops are out for him he should know so he can stay low key.

[ReclaimPublicSpace]

For next time, if a pig asks to search your person or your possession, say flat up "No, unless you have a warrant." It's your constitutional right to prevention of unlawful search and seizure.

[Darkhunter]

So I have an update to this thread. I sort of told him I had a feeling that this was only the beginning. He asked me and after a few drinks I told him that being busted was only the tip of the iceburg and he needs to worry about many things from his past coming up to haunt him. I was drunk and don't know exactly what I said but in the morning I woke up to a note taped to my dorm door thanking me and telling me that he doesn't want me or anyone else he associates with to come down with him and to stay away from him until his court day.

I called him and asked him what the hell and he told me he talked to the police and discussed his options with them with a lawyer present. He apparently plead guilty to many of the charges and now is only going to trial for the rape charges due to his deal his lawyer got him.

And the rape thing. I honestly don't know and when I really had it confirmed I started to not want to be near him nor have any of my female friends be left alone with him. Overall he is a nice guy but with that I don't know how I can talk to him without want to punch him if he is guilty. He is only wanted for questioning so I am giving him the benefit of the doubt unless he fesses up then I will not talk to him.

As for the paraphernalia.... we ended up storing that at the guy I called room. I kept the scale but all the rest of it is not in my room. I have my small pipe, a scale and a small grinder and hidden in my room so I am not really worried about them finding my stuff at the moment. They wont find it if they look around the room.

I hope I did the right thing with this. I really feel bad for this whole thing not only for my friend but it may get a lot worse if he is guilty.

[The Better Version]

Well that's good. You and your friend handled this the right way, and you should give him the benefit of the doubt until proven guilty in the court of law. Word of advice, though....

If they cops do show up at your dorm and ask if they can search your room, under any circumstances, don't let them in unless they can show you a search warrant. I'm not sure what your school laws are but for me they still need a search warrant even though the dorms are technically owned by the school. Now if he needs to get a search warrant he'll probably be sneaky and have the cops guard all the doors outside the building and he'll probably remain at the door, although, you can close the door.

That's when you take all of your stuff and break whatever can be broken and eat whatever can be eaten and everything else? Hide very very well. Make sure you're playing loud music so they can't hear you and disassociate any items that would be considered paraphenellia if next to pot. Things such as a scale, lighters, incense, etc. They count these things too if they find pot. Anyway good luck with this calamity. I'm sure you'll be alright but as for your friend.....

[Darkhunter]

Oh my friend knows he is fucked and he knows that he is fucked and is telling me to get the fuck out of it with nothing if I can. I'm not going to blame him like he basically told me to do just an hour ago because he is fucked as it is without me selling him out.

I told him as long as they don't ask me to say anything I'm not planning on it. I moved the shit I had into the ceiling tiles which are not part of my room and the access points to the tiles are all over the floor so I can plausibly deny it. The scale I have I put into my bag with my science book, math book and calculator I use for school so I can say its part of my Chem stuff. My roll papers.... I have half a bag of roll tobacco for this sole reason. I think I'm covered.

At my dorm you have to let cops search your room no matter what but after last semester with a bunch of people calling in "tips" to search my room every few days and me threatening to sue due to harassment I think they will do everything by the book if they get any more "tips" associated with my room.

Overall I plan on being there for my friend but avoiding smoking or doing anything illegal with him until he is over this. I hope those rape charges are lies but in this crazy world you never know anymore. I'm presuming they are until he tells me he did it. If he never says he did it and gets fucked by the system then that will be an issue right there.

[samguy700]

how would it help him

[notamuppet]

I get nervous but say "Ok"

How retarded do you have to be to give someone permission to search a car when you KNOW there are illegal drugs in it?

and you should tell your friend, what the cop said to you was more cop bs

[The Better Version]

Quite the contrary. Whether or not you give a cop permission, they will still search your car. Sure you can refuse under the basis that they don't have probable cause and they would adhere to this, however, they would end up finding probable cause by sending in the K-9 unit. Even if the dog didn't smell it (which is unlikely), they would more than likely entice it to get excited as to make it seem like it found something. They would say something like "go get it boy" which is how they train them to get excited into believing that their "toy" is in your car. This is enough for them to claim probable cause and because you held their time and because you refused to let them search you in the first place is not only going to make them believe you have stuff in your car but they're also going to be super pissed that you made it hard for them to catch you. So they would probably strip your entire car down expecting to get a huge bust over this.

Now what's a better way? Hiding your shit very very well. Spend a good 30 to 40 minutes looking for a spot to place your stash. The more time you spend hiding it the longer it will take the cops to find it. If they ask to search your car, let them, and if it's hidden well enough they probably wont find it because instead of sending in the K-9 or strip searching the entire car, they'll more than likely pick the most obvious and easy to search places and then be on their way. By refusing to let them search your car is going to send off a red light that you're guilty. By calmly complying that's going to make them believe that you probably don't have anything so they will do a minimal or no search.

Part of it is knowing the law but the other part is understanding the psychology of a cop. If you're getting pulled over by the cops its likely that they are just trying to give you a traffic ticket instead of busting you big time. Once they pull you over they'll do a general assessment of what you look like and what your car looks like. If you have a bunch of phish bumper stickers and a pot shirt on, then they will probably ask to search your car. But if your car's clean and you look pretty decent and non pot smokerish, then they'll probably give you a ticket and maybe ask if you have an illegal drugs. They may ask to search your car but they usually only do that when they're unsure of their judgment of you. They do this to get a confirmation as to whether or not you're guilty. If you say no, they think you're guilty but if you say yes then they will probably think you're innocent.

[notamuppet]

Quite the contrary. Whether or not you give a cop permission, they will still search your car. Sure you can refuse under the basis that they don't have probable cause and they would adhere to this, however, they would end up finding probable cause by sending in the K-9 unit. Even if the dog didn't smell it (which is unlikely), they would more than likely entice it to get excited as to make it seem like it found something. They would say something like "go get it boy" which is how they train them to get excited into believing that their "toy" is in your car. This is enough for them to claim probable cause and because you held their time and because you refused to let them search you in the first place is not only going to make them believe you have stuff in your car but they're also going to be super pissed that you made it hard for them to catch you. So they would probably strip your entire car down expecting to get a huge bust over this.

Now what's a better way? Hiding your shit very very well. Spend a good 30 to 40 minutes looking for a spot to place your stash. The more time you spend hiding it the longer it will take the cops to find it. If they ask to search your car, let them, and if it's hidden well enough they probably wont find it because instead of sending in the K-9 or strip searching the entire car, they'll more than likely pick the most obvious and easy to search places and then be on their way. By refusing to let them search your car is going to send off a red light that you're guilty. By calmly complying that's going to make them believe that you probably don't have anything so they will do a minimal or no search.

Part of it is knowing the law but the other part is understanding the psychology of a cop. If you're getting pulled over by the cops its likely that they are just trying to give you a traffic ticket instead of busting you big time. Once they pull you over they'll do a general assessment of what you look like and what your car looks like. If you have a bunch of phish bumper stickers and a pot shirt on, then they will probably ask to search your car. But if your car's clean and you look pretty decent and non pot smokerish, then they'll probably give you a ticket and maybe ask if you have an illegal drugs. They may ask to search your car but they usually only do that when they're unsure of their judgment of you. They do this to get a confirmation as to whether or not you're guilty. If you say no, they think you're guilty but if you say yes then they will probably think you're innocent.

This is not a police state. Cops need a reason to search your car. Refusing to allow a cop to search your car is not a reason.

Cops will often threaten to send in the dogs but never actually do so. They do this to scare people.

If people started asserting their rights and stopped living in fear then the police would stop taking away personal freedoms.

I will never give a cop consent to search my car even if I'm not carrying anything illegal.

[The Better Version]

Have fun with that because all of my friends in the police force tell me they would get pissed and send in the K-9 unit. I mean when you consider the fact that they're getting paid to do this, then it's not that much out of their way to send in the dogs, especially if they have high suspicion that you're guilty.

If I had nothing illegal in my car then I would most certainly assert my rights but its very stupid to piss the cops off when you have something illicit in your vehicle. It's not necessarily about being afraid to assert your rights as much as it is about being smart. Utilize the constitution, particularly the fifth amendment, when it's the right time and the right time is not when you have a bunch of drugs in your car and you're still presumed innocent. Now if you do everything you can to not get caught but end up getting busted anyway, thats when you assert your rights, by refusing to talk unless your lawyer is present.

Anyway refusing to allow a cop to search your car may not be probable cause or reasonable suspicion but it can and almost always leads to that. Like I said if you have nothing in your car that's illegal then by all means assert your rights but if you do this while possessing something illegal, it's just going to piss them off and at some point they will have probable cause to search your car. It's as if a student thinks he can get away with cutting and pasting an article he found online into his essay and expect the professor not to catch him. The reality of the situation is, that professor not only read hundreds of other peoples essays over many years who were the same age as you but more than likely has come across the same article you've pasted into your essay. So not only does he know your level of writing, but he will also know your style and the articles style. I've seen this happen a hundred times in my classes and the one thing they all have in common is that they think they can get away with it. The same applies to cops. they deal with the same people over and over again which allowed them to master the techniques of hunting out probable cause to get into your car. Don't underestimate a pig.

[JoePedo]

Quite the contrary. Whether or not you give a cop permission, they will still search your car.

...and serve time in a federal fucking penitentiary for it, then.

I'd strongly advise everyone in this forum NOT to listen to TBV, and to listen to civil rights' advocates groups comprised of professional attorneys. It's not at all hard to walk out of a drug raid with the drugs still in your pocket, if you're not named in the warrant, and it is very hard to get evidence excluded when you legalize their damned search.

tl;dr? Ignore this clown. Probably a piglet trying to spread misinformation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqMjMPlXzdA

http://www.aclu.org/racialjustice/racialprofiling/15865pub20040714.html

[The Better Version]

no no no. You're not understanding me. Raiding a house and raiding a car are very different situations. Even interrogations with cops at the police station are different and I as well as many other attornys highly advise you in these circumstances to exercise your rights. A house is different because they have to have a search warrant and interrogations are different because you're already suspected of committing a crime.

Driving down the road and getting pulled over while you have a half ounce of pot in your car? Completely different situation because A. You haven't been busted for anything yet so there's still a chance you can get away and B. They don't need a search warrant to search your car. They only need probable cause which if you've read my post, it's incredibly easy for them to obtain. In fact even if you just got pulled over and they asked you to step out of the car, they have the right to pat you down to "search for weapons", but if they find any drugs, they can bust you.(don't believe me? Look it up).

Now why should you guys listen to me? Because if I had listened to my friends who are cops, then I wouldn't have landed in jail. I had an awesome hiding spot, that took them well over an hour to find but it was only because I refused to let them search my car that they even bothered to get the K-9 unit out. You know what they told me? If I had just let them search my car, they would have done a simple little check and been on their way but because I refused to let them search my car, that raised a red flag, and the rest was history.

Exercising your rights is important but you need to bring those rights into reality and the reality of the situation is that you're dealing with human beings who do this everyday, so of course exercising your rights in a car situation, while carrying something illegal, is going to land you in jail fast.

But I don't expect anyone to listen to me because most of you people are too stupid to even understand what I'm saying.

[JoePedo]

they have the right to pat you down to "search for weapons", but if they find any drugs, they can bust you.(don't believe me? Look it up).

:facepalm:

The search for weapons approved in Terry consisted solely of a limited patting of the outer clothing of the suspect for concealed objects which might be used as instruments of assault. Only when he discovered such objects did the officer in Terry place his hands in the pockets of the men he searched. In this case, with no attempt at an initial limited exploration for arms, Patrolman Martin thrust his hand into Sibron's pocket and took from him envelopes of heroin. His testimony shows that he was looking for narcotics, and he found them. The search was not reasonably limited in scope to the accomplishment of the only goal which might conceivably have justified its inception - the protection of the officer by disarming a potentially dangerous man. Such a search violates the guarantee of the Fourth [392 U.S. 40, 66] Amendment, which protects the sanctity of the person against unreasonable intrusions on the part of all government agents.

- Sibron v New York (http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=392&invol=40), US Supreme Court, Majority opinion, 392 U.S. 40

Your coworkers are cruising for hard federal time, son. Anything beyond a patdown on the outside of the clothing - and that only when the officer can present specific, articulable facts to support a belief that (1) the suspect IS armed at the time, and (2) the suspect is likely to engage in violence towards the officer... is a god damned federal offense on behalf of the cop. 18 USC 242 with liabilities under 42 USC 1983.

Buuut... hey. I've got caselaw and statute reference. You've got cop "friends" who want people to surrender their legal rights directly inverse to the state of law for some unknown reason. I'm sure "the cops would like you to surrender your lawful rights" TOTALLY takes precedence over established law in a courtroom, man...

[000]

:facepalm:

The search for weapons approved in Terry consisted solely of a limited patting of the outer clothing of the suspect for concealed objects which might be used as instruments of assault. Only when he discovered such objects did the officer in Terry place his hands in the pockets of the men he searched. In this case, with no attempt at an initial limited exploration for arms, Patrolman Martin thrust his hand into Sibron's pocket and took from him envelopes of heroin. His testimony shows that he was looking for narcotics, and he found them. The search was not reasonably limited in scope to the accomplishment of the only goal which might conceivably have justified its inception - the protection of the officer by disarming a potentially dangerous man. Such a search violates the guarantee of the Fourth [392 U.S. 40, 66] Amendment, which protects the sanctity of the person against unreasonable intrusions on the part of all government agents.

- Sibron v New York (http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=392&invol=40), US Supreme Court, Majority opinion, 392 U.S. 40

Your coworkers are cruising for hard federal time, son. Anything beyond a patdown on the outside of the clothing - and that only when the officer can present specific, articulable facts to support a belief that (1) the suspect IS armed at the time, and (2) the suspect is likely to engage in violence towards the officer... is a god damned federal offense on behalf of the cop. 18 USC 242 with liabilities under 42 USC 1983.

Buuut... hey. I've got caselaw and statute reference. You've got cop "friends" who want people to surrender their legal rights directly inverse to the state of law for some unknown reason. I'm sure "the cops would like you to surrender your lawful rights" TOTALLY takes precedence over established law in a courtroom, man...

Here's the thing though: Very simply, aside from anything else, there's what they're allowed to do, and what they can, physically, do. They are the guys with the guns. They can do whatever they want at the time.

Now, they'll have to face up to it in court. But anything less than them physically abusing the shit out of you (and even things worse than this have gone by unpunished) will probably fly. Lets say they pull you over. For whatever reason, they want to search your car. You say no. What's stopping the officer from saying "Whoops, I smell weed smoke coming from your car. Do you smell that, other officer?". They now have some pretty bullshit probable cause. But what are you possibly going to do in court? It's your (you, a kid who is there for drug offenses, probably) word against two cops who are agreeing...I mean...really, what do you think is going to happen?

The cops are friends with each other, they're coworkers. They'd much rather back each other up, with no possible risk, than some ratty little punk who's facing a drug charge.

I appreciate our rights as much as the next guy, but you have to be realistic and realize what can and does happen in practice.

[JoePedo]

Here's the thing though: Very simply, aside from anything else, there's what they're allowed to do, and what they can, physically, do. They are the guys with the guns. They can do whatever they want at the time.

You're... close.

There's...

1. What they're allowed to do.

2. What they can do.

3. What they can get away with at trial.

Three things, not two.

Now, they'll have to face up to it in court. But anything less than them physically abusing the shit out of you (and even things worse than this have gone by unpunished) will probably fly. Lets say they pull you over. For whatever reason, they want to search your car. You say no. What's stopping the officer from saying "Whoops, I smell weed smoke coming from your car. Do you smell that, other officer?". They now have some pretty bullshit probable cause.

Yup.

Of course, they're also beating the shit out of your car window with a baton, since you only rolled it down a centimeter - with the doors locked - to hand them your liscense and registration.

But what are you possibly going to do in court? It's your (you, a kid who is there for drug offenses, probably) word against two cops who are agreeing...I mean...really, what do you think is going to happen?

...when the cops show up with a bag + no joint?

pwnt. No smoke. :)

Plus, keep in mind how really fucked they are. What if they 'smell weed smoke,' but find... crack and no weed? Fucked.

And don't forget the last fact - while testifying in your case, they're facing federal charges. You have the right to arrest and press charges unilaterally. Sort of... slows down... the credibility of their testimony, doesn't it?

There are sooooo many things in your hypothetical which even a minimal attorney could raep 'till it bleeds. Conversely, if you say "yes, here's a bag of pot, officer" - guess what's going to happen to your motion to dismiss? Only you don't have the broken window or any of the other evidence that they're lying.

The cops are friends with each other, they're coworkers. They'd much rather back each other up, with no possible risk, than some ratty little punk who's facing a drug charge.

...except, of course, that he's not facing a drug charge at that time, and that it's going to take some mad fucking balls to take on the FBI.

They lieks small-town yokels.

I appreciate our rights as much as the next guy, but you have to be realistic and realize what can and does happen in practice.

Okay.

If you believe that, shut the fuck up, get the fuck off the internet, and start killing cops NOW.

Otherwise? Start enforcing the full weight of your rights to HELP keep the person who does from being the "odd man out."

I've done this, against criminals and normal cops. Works just fucking fine, and they even recieve special training to deal with the "Am I under arrest? Am I under detention? Am I free to go?" string of questions. They don't know your ass from an ACLU trawling operation, boy.

Been there, done that, and there's shit you can do afterwards in case criminal networks are discovered, too. They don't know your ass from, well... anyone. Including someone who could take their department or ring down.

But... really, you've got two choices. Quit being a little bitch about it. Kill cops over your "loss" of rights, or start exercising your rights. There are no inbetweens.

[The Better Version]

Thank you for showing me that you know how to blindly research. The primary topic was not that little exert you got from my paragraph but whether or not it was smart to exercise your right during a traffic stop, when you possessed an illicit item.

Perhaps I was being a little ambiguous (if you know what that word means) on the notion, but for the most part it does stand true. I merely forgot to mention that A. They can only search the outer garments and B. They can only search you for weapons if there is reasonable suspicion, and that isn't synonymous for "hunch". However, if they have that reasonable suspicion and pat you down only to stumble upon drugs, then your still busted. I'll admit I was too vague which was certainly misleading.

Anyway, asshole, I'm not saying you shouldn't know your rights or you shouldn't use them. It's important to know them so that you don't incriminate yourself or if you do incriminate yourself you know how to get out of it. It's not only important to know your rights but also to understand the psyche of a cop so that you know the best time to use your rights. You can use your rights in traffic stops, but that doesn't increase your chances of getting out of the mess because by exercising your rights in that case, you are essentially incriminating yourself. Who wouldn't think you have nothing to hide if you're going up and arms over a simple search or if you're window is partially cracked?

It is true that everything you said is in fact legal to do, but as stated before, police do have ways of getting around this, legally, and in fact they often do get around this. You're taking a textualist approach to this by only reading what's on paper. I'm taking a strategist approach and looking at both the hypothetical situation you are in as well as what is stated on the text. I know my rights but I also know that there is a good time and a bad time to use it. In MOST instances it is good to use your rights but when you're in a traffic stop situation, the key is to make yourself look like an innocent bystander not exercising your rights....that needs to be left for court. However it is still all dependent on the hypothetical situation that would determine which rights if any rights you use. Cops don't simply use aesthetic judgment but they also look at your criminal record. Only if you have a clean record, and you appear to not be carrying anything illegal can exercising your rights be more beneficial to you. In other words, if the cop ONLY has appearance to base judgment off of can this work.

Even if you win the case, you still have to consider the amount of money and time you would spend on it as well as the lost time for when you got arrested. It's better to be submissive if you do in fact have something to hide, and only AFTER you've been totally caught red handed do you exercise your rights because after your caught, thats all you have. At least before you are caught you are at least presumed innocent and therefore it is beneficial to utilize that aspect first before you utilize your rights. Essentially appearance is the first line of defense as a way to deter the police from judging you incorrectly, then your second line of defense is your rights.

I take it you're either an undergraduate or a grad student. Don't just learn what's on the text. Take what you know and utilize it in the REAL WORLD. Trust me....it took me many years to learn that.

[JoePedo]

Take what you know and utilize it in the REAL WORLD.

Drug raids are not USUALLY a class project.

However, you bring up another point - the cop doesn't know you from someone who's doing this as a class project, either.

Perhaps I was being a little ambiguous (if you know what that word means)

God knows, the law's all about trying to be as ambiguous as possible.

However, if they have that reasonable suspicion and pat you down only to stumble upon drugs, then your still busted.

False. Re-read the bolded quote from Sibron v New York again.

It wasn't 'blind' research, either; clarification of Terry stops and their limits are some of the most severely studied aspects of constitutional law.

exercising your rights in that case, you are essentially incriminating yourself.

Lies.

Who wouldn't think you have nothing to hide if you're going up and arms over a simple search or if you're window is partially cracked?

And the answer is : cops who have been to thousands of workshops and seminars designed to keep their department from getting sued.

Incidentally, the "busted" video was, umm... designed by a cop. A cop whose name is on the record, btw, not someone saying "my cop buddies lol" on the intarwebz.

only AFTER you've been totally caught red handed do you exercise your rights

Too late. If someone listened to you, they'd have already waived all of them.

At least before you are caught you are at least presumed innocent

The word you are looking for is "convicted," not "caught."

and therefore it is beneficial to utilize that aspect first before you utilize your rights.

NEVER waive your rights if you don't want to end up doing hard time - guilty or innocent.

Essentially appearance is the first line of defense as a way to deter the police from judging you incorrectly, then your second line of defense is your rights.

Great. Dress preppy all you want; never waive your rights. They can't be taken back.

I take it you're either an undergraduate or a grad student.

Or, maybe just the practiced boots-on-the-street sort of police-monitoring activist.

The next thing one learns after "AIUA/AIUD/AIF-T-G" and "NW/NN/NC" is what an "open records request" is.

It's one of many tools for you to use when a cop steamrolls the fuck out of your rights and tries to get away with it.

Trust me. Cops immediately go into "training response mode" when you start questioning your status, from coast to coast. That's because their job training centers around not commiting crimes.

And occasionally, dealing with professional activists. Anyone who tries to feed you a "you'd waive all your rights completely if you have nothing to hide" is feeding you a line of bullshit and does not have your best interests at heart, though.

[Darkhunter]

Hell I just let them do what they were going to do anyway. If I took the car they have a policy in the town I was in where if you are not the owner of the vehicle but have the owner's permission they can do a full search to make sure the vehicle is "drivable."

Either way we had been pulled over and my friend was fucked either way as if I took the car they were going to search it to prove it was able to be driven.