ratfrink
04-12-2009, 06:04 PM
Put all your hints and tips about buying used cars in here.
For over 100k miles I'd definitely want to have a good service history with it, preferably detailing every service and MOT. Find out how long the owner has had the car, and what has needed doing in that time (check the MOT sheets for any fails as well, and see that they have been repaired).
Do you know someone who's good with cars? Or a friendly mechanic? They'd be an absolute goldmine of info if you can take them along with you to see the car. Even if you don't know anyone, take a friend along because an extra pair of eyes always helps.
Also, before you look over the car, ask the owner as many questions as you can about it - specifically about what is wrong with it. If (when) you discover other things, you can use them as a bargaining point against them. If you discover any major fault that the owner claims he didn't know about, I'd walk, unless the price is ridiculously cheap and you feel confident you can repair it.
On any older car I'd go over the following things with a fine tooth comb:
Interior:
See how worn the interior is, especially the drivers seat and steering wheel. If it's threadbare but the mileage only shows 50,000, then there's something not quite right (i.e. mileage has been clocked back - check service history/MOT to verify but walk away if there isn't any)
Check that all the gauges and lights work. Check that the central locking works. Check that all windows go up and down. Check the shut lines around the doors, bonnet, boot (wonky shut lines can be a giveaway that a car has been in an accident or had panels replaced. Also look for mis-matching paint and overspray. It's not a problem if it has been repaired properly, but ask the owner what has happened. If he doesn't know, walk away).
Check carpets (boot carpets as well) for damp - you can smell it and sometimes feel it. Leaking windows/sunroof are usually the cause of damp inside the car - feel around windows for moisture. Smell of petrol in the boot is usually due to a rusted or damaged petrol filler hose or fuel tank, which can be a right pain to sort out.
Check the exterior of the car. Walk around it slowly, try to eye up panels to make sure they are straight. Small dents are nothing to worry about, but if panels are wonky then it could be a sign that the car was in an accident. Mis-matching paint is a dead giveaway that something has been repaired. Don't view a car in the dark for this reason. Check all the trim, door handles, wing mirrors etc. These can be had cheaply at a scrapyard (approx £10 for a manual mirror, £25 for electric). A big dent in the wing or door can lower the price of a car dramatically, but can be a cheap fix if you are willing to do the work yourself. Bounce the corners of each car - it should go down and then back up. If it bounces around much more than that, the shocks are weak and will eventually need replacing (usually £100-250 for a front corner, £50-150 rear). Check the number plates are legal(ish) - no fancy fonts or italics, no weird spacing (should always be AXXX_ABC or ABXX_ABC), no backgrounds or anything other than national flags. New plates are only around £20 but it can be a good bargaining point. Check that all the lights work okay - nine times out of ten it'll be a bulb - bulbs/fuses are dirt cheap and easy enough to replace yourself.
Check under the wheel arches for rust - scrub away the mud and grime with your hand (wear gloves) and take a good look with a torch. Poke rusty patches with a screwdriver to see if they are solid. Surface rust can be painted over with anti-rust paint, but rusty holes require patches welded in (and bodyshops are expensive!). Check the entire underside of the car as well as you can. Open the bonnet and look for rust under there (inner wings and bulkheads are rusty places in most old cars). While you're under the bonnet you can look carefully for any rippled or buckled metal which would indicate that the car has been in a fairly serious accident. Check sunroofs and around all windows for rust and moisture. The bottoms of the doors can rust through quickly on old cars, too.
Jack the car up and support it with axle stands/ramps/breeze blocks. If you don't have anything solid to support the car (don't ever go under a car with only the jack supporting it) then parking it across a high curb in a quiet area will do. Inspect very carefully for rust everywhere. Surface rust is okay, but grot or rusty holes are very bad. Look at the brake lines (thin copper or steel tubes running around under the car) and inspect them as closely as you can. Look at the suspension and braking components, specifically the rubber bushes (little black/grey round things). If they are cracked or falling apart, they'll need renewing, which can be anything from £25-250 depending on what bushes are gone and how many.
While you're under there, start up the engine and rev it, and listen to the exhaust. If it sounds rorty or throaty, it's probably leaking which is an MOT fail. Exhausts come in sections so unless it is the catalytic converter (small box near the engine) or the manifold (big cast iron bit that attaches to the engine) it'll usually be about £50 to sort out. If the car has a stainless steel exhaust, great! It'll last longer than the car!
If the car is on ramps, take it down and jack it up so the wheels aren't touching the ground. Spin the wheels (make sure car is in neutral for spinning the front wheels, and car has handbrake off for spinning the rears - but always have either the car in reverse gear or with the handbrake on to make sure it doesn't want to roll forward or backward off the jack). If you hear the wheels rumbling, it's probably a wheel bearing. The part itself is about a tenner, but the labour could be upwards of £40. If you hear scraping or grinding, the brakes are probably sticking, which is quite easily to sort out (£30 labour, plus 30-70 cost of parts if new parts needed). Take the wheel trims off (if fitted) and feel the wheel - if it's hot then it's because something is sticking (wheel bearing/brakes). Look for the little rubber pipes going into the brakes - these are flexi hoses and perish quite easily - around £20 to replace per side. If at all possible, take off the front wheels and look at the thickness of the brake pads and discs. If the pads are less than 3-4mm thick, they'll need replacing (£30-£60). If the disc is scored or grooved, that'll need replacing too (another £30-60).
Take a look at the tyres. They should all be the same size (look for a number on the side of the tyre - something like 195/65/16 for example). The numbers should be the same all on each tyre - if not, then the odd one will need replacing (£30-£100, the bigger the tyre the more expensive). Tyres legally need 1.6mm of tread in a band across the tyre which excludes the outermost section, any lower than that needs replacing. Look for the pattern of tyre wear - if the tyre is more worn in the middle it has been over-inflated. If it is more worn on the outside, it has been under-inflated (could be the sign of a slow puncture - very cheap fix if it is repairable). If one side of the tyre is more worn than the other, it's usually a sign that the tracking is out (tracking costs around £15 to do). Check for any damage on the sidewalls of the tyres. If you can see the internal thread of the tyre coming through, it needs replacing immediately. Remember to check the spare (although often spare wheels are smaller and thinner than road wheels to save space). Check the condition of the wheels - small chips or flaky bits on alloy wheels is cosmetic only and you can fix it up yourself with some spray paint. Big dents in steel wheels could be more serious because they can buckle easily, but even if the wheel is slightly buckled (a garage can check this for you) steel wheels are very cheap to buy and you can re-use the tyre.
Test drive the car (or pay good attention with the owner driving it, and ask him to do the following). Make sure all gears select easily at any reasonable speed (don't try to go into first gear when going over 10mph though). If it grinds or squeals, the synchromeshes are probably wearing out, especially on a high mileage car. This isn't really a problem if don't mind rev-matching and taking the gears slowly. Listen for whines from the gearbox (or rear axle if it is RWD). If it's just the oil, then it's pennies to replace, but it could be severe wear. Check that the vehicle doesn't pull to the left or right (look closely at the way the driver holds the wheel) when driving or when braking. If possible, brake firmly with your hands off the wheel - if it pulls sideways then take a good look at the brakes. The rear brakes can be checked independently by gently pulling the handbrake while moving (don't yank it unless you want to spin the car though!). If you feel the brake pedal pulsating under your foot, it's usually a sign that the brake discs are warped (£30-60 for replacements).
If the revs get higher without the car accelerating, it's a sign that the clutch is slipping, this can be anywhere from £200 to over a thousand pounds to get replaced depending on the car. If it's an auto, check that kickdown works properly. If the owner leaves his foot on the brake when the car has stopped, this can eventually lead to brake discs warping. Drivers of automatics do this more often in my experience (basically the pads get incredibly hot from braking, then get held against one spot on the brake discs, which warps them). A screeching noise when accelerating is usually the fan belt, cheap to replace or free, if it just needs tightening up.
Open the bonnet up after a short drive. Listen to the engine running, listen for clanks or rattles when revving. A ticking tappety noise at idle is common on higher mileage cars. Check for smoke coming out of the exhaust - white smoke is either condensation or excess fuel. Blue smoke is oil burning (on startup a little blue puff is somewhat acceptable, but when the engine is hot it shouldn't do that - I'd walk away unless the car was very cheap and had a long long MOT). You can hold a piece of white paper behind the exhaust to see what comes out - black spots are oil (bad). My MG used to leave a ring of oil on my white garage door (but we'll forgive that car because it was 40 years old).
Stop the engine. Open the oil filler cap and look for milky deposits (aka mayonnaise). Also look for water in the oil (or oil in the water for that matter). These are usually indications that the head gasket is going to fail soon - very expensive unless you are handy with spanners and it's an old car with a simple engine. If you open the radiator cap when the engine is hot, open it very slowly with a big towel or rag wrapped around your hand, in case it erupts (did this in my face once, very painful). Check all vacuum lines and belts, and generally give things a good look.
That's about as much as I can think of right now, but I'm sure I'll have missed stuff.
One last word of advice would be - always go to see a car with the mindset that you aren't going to buy it.
Please feel free to correct me on anything
For over 100k miles I'd definitely want to have a good service history with it, preferably detailing every service and MOT. Find out how long the owner has had the car, and what has needed doing in that time (check the MOT sheets for any fails as well, and see that they have been repaired).
Do you know someone who's good with cars? Or a friendly mechanic? They'd be an absolute goldmine of info if you can take them along with you to see the car. Even if you don't know anyone, take a friend along because an extra pair of eyes always helps.
Also, before you look over the car, ask the owner as many questions as you can about it - specifically about what is wrong with it. If (when) you discover other things, you can use them as a bargaining point against them. If you discover any major fault that the owner claims he didn't know about, I'd walk, unless the price is ridiculously cheap and you feel confident you can repair it.
On any older car I'd go over the following things with a fine tooth comb:
Interior:
See how worn the interior is, especially the drivers seat and steering wheel. If it's threadbare but the mileage only shows 50,000, then there's something not quite right (i.e. mileage has been clocked back - check service history/MOT to verify but walk away if there isn't any)
Check that all the gauges and lights work. Check that the central locking works. Check that all windows go up and down. Check the shut lines around the doors, bonnet, boot (wonky shut lines can be a giveaway that a car has been in an accident or had panels replaced. Also look for mis-matching paint and overspray. It's not a problem if it has been repaired properly, but ask the owner what has happened. If he doesn't know, walk away).
Check carpets (boot carpets as well) for damp - you can smell it and sometimes feel it. Leaking windows/sunroof are usually the cause of damp inside the car - feel around windows for moisture. Smell of petrol in the boot is usually due to a rusted or damaged petrol filler hose or fuel tank, which can be a right pain to sort out.
Check the exterior of the car. Walk around it slowly, try to eye up panels to make sure they are straight. Small dents are nothing to worry about, but if panels are wonky then it could be a sign that the car was in an accident. Mis-matching paint is a dead giveaway that something has been repaired. Don't view a car in the dark for this reason. Check all the trim, door handles, wing mirrors etc. These can be had cheaply at a scrapyard (approx £10 for a manual mirror, £25 for electric). A big dent in the wing or door can lower the price of a car dramatically, but can be a cheap fix if you are willing to do the work yourself. Bounce the corners of each car - it should go down and then back up. If it bounces around much more than that, the shocks are weak and will eventually need replacing (usually £100-250 for a front corner, £50-150 rear). Check the number plates are legal(ish) - no fancy fonts or italics, no weird spacing (should always be AXXX_ABC or ABXX_ABC), no backgrounds or anything other than national flags. New plates are only around £20 but it can be a good bargaining point. Check that all the lights work okay - nine times out of ten it'll be a bulb - bulbs/fuses are dirt cheap and easy enough to replace yourself.
Check under the wheel arches for rust - scrub away the mud and grime with your hand (wear gloves) and take a good look with a torch. Poke rusty patches with a screwdriver to see if they are solid. Surface rust can be painted over with anti-rust paint, but rusty holes require patches welded in (and bodyshops are expensive!). Check the entire underside of the car as well as you can. Open the bonnet and look for rust under there (inner wings and bulkheads are rusty places in most old cars). While you're under the bonnet you can look carefully for any rippled or buckled metal which would indicate that the car has been in a fairly serious accident. Check sunroofs and around all windows for rust and moisture. The bottoms of the doors can rust through quickly on old cars, too.
Jack the car up and support it with axle stands/ramps/breeze blocks. If you don't have anything solid to support the car (don't ever go under a car with only the jack supporting it) then parking it across a high curb in a quiet area will do. Inspect very carefully for rust everywhere. Surface rust is okay, but grot or rusty holes are very bad. Look at the brake lines (thin copper or steel tubes running around under the car) and inspect them as closely as you can. Look at the suspension and braking components, specifically the rubber bushes (little black/grey round things). If they are cracked or falling apart, they'll need renewing, which can be anything from £25-250 depending on what bushes are gone and how many.
While you're under there, start up the engine and rev it, and listen to the exhaust. If it sounds rorty or throaty, it's probably leaking which is an MOT fail. Exhausts come in sections so unless it is the catalytic converter (small box near the engine) or the manifold (big cast iron bit that attaches to the engine) it'll usually be about £50 to sort out. If the car has a stainless steel exhaust, great! It'll last longer than the car!
If the car is on ramps, take it down and jack it up so the wheels aren't touching the ground. Spin the wheels (make sure car is in neutral for spinning the front wheels, and car has handbrake off for spinning the rears - but always have either the car in reverse gear or with the handbrake on to make sure it doesn't want to roll forward or backward off the jack). If you hear the wheels rumbling, it's probably a wheel bearing. The part itself is about a tenner, but the labour could be upwards of £40. If you hear scraping or grinding, the brakes are probably sticking, which is quite easily to sort out (£30 labour, plus 30-70 cost of parts if new parts needed). Take the wheel trims off (if fitted) and feel the wheel - if it's hot then it's because something is sticking (wheel bearing/brakes). Look for the little rubber pipes going into the brakes - these are flexi hoses and perish quite easily - around £20 to replace per side. If at all possible, take off the front wheels and look at the thickness of the brake pads and discs. If the pads are less than 3-4mm thick, they'll need replacing (£30-£60). If the disc is scored or grooved, that'll need replacing too (another £30-60).
Take a look at the tyres. They should all be the same size (look for a number on the side of the tyre - something like 195/65/16 for example). The numbers should be the same all on each tyre - if not, then the odd one will need replacing (£30-£100, the bigger the tyre the more expensive). Tyres legally need 1.6mm of tread in a band across the tyre which excludes the outermost section, any lower than that needs replacing. Look for the pattern of tyre wear - if the tyre is more worn in the middle it has been over-inflated. If it is more worn on the outside, it has been under-inflated (could be the sign of a slow puncture - very cheap fix if it is repairable). If one side of the tyre is more worn than the other, it's usually a sign that the tracking is out (tracking costs around £15 to do). Check for any damage on the sidewalls of the tyres. If you can see the internal thread of the tyre coming through, it needs replacing immediately. Remember to check the spare (although often spare wheels are smaller and thinner than road wheels to save space). Check the condition of the wheels - small chips or flaky bits on alloy wheels is cosmetic only and you can fix it up yourself with some spray paint. Big dents in steel wheels could be more serious because they can buckle easily, but even if the wheel is slightly buckled (a garage can check this for you) steel wheels are very cheap to buy and you can re-use the tyre.
Test drive the car (or pay good attention with the owner driving it, and ask him to do the following). Make sure all gears select easily at any reasonable speed (don't try to go into first gear when going over 10mph though). If it grinds or squeals, the synchromeshes are probably wearing out, especially on a high mileage car. This isn't really a problem if don't mind rev-matching and taking the gears slowly. Listen for whines from the gearbox (or rear axle if it is RWD). If it's just the oil, then it's pennies to replace, but it could be severe wear. Check that the vehicle doesn't pull to the left or right (look closely at the way the driver holds the wheel) when driving or when braking. If possible, brake firmly with your hands off the wheel - if it pulls sideways then take a good look at the brakes. The rear brakes can be checked independently by gently pulling the handbrake while moving (don't yank it unless you want to spin the car though!). If you feel the brake pedal pulsating under your foot, it's usually a sign that the brake discs are warped (£30-60 for replacements).
If the revs get higher without the car accelerating, it's a sign that the clutch is slipping, this can be anywhere from £200 to over a thousand pounds to get replaced depending on the car. If it's an auto, check that kickdown works properly. If the owner leaves his foot on the brake when the car has stopped, this can eventually lead to brake discs warping. Drivers of automatics do this more often in my experience (basically the pads get incredibly hot from braking, then get held against one spot on the brake discs, which warps them). A screeching noise when accelerating is usually the fan belt, cheap to replace or free, if it just needs tightening up.
Open the bonnet up after a short drive. Listen to the engine running, listen for clanks or rattles when revving. A ticking tappety noise at idle is common on higher mileage cars. Check for smoke coming out of the exhaust - white smoke is either condensation or excess fuel. Blue smoke is oil burning (on startup a little blue puff is somewhat acceptable, but when the engine is hot it shouldn't do that - I'd walk away unless the car was very cheap and had a long long MOT). You can hold a piece of white paper behind the exhaust to see what comes out - black spots are oil (bad). My MG used to leave a ring of oil on my white garage door (but we'll forgive that car because it was 40 years old).
Stop the engine. Open the oil filler cap and look for milky deposits (aka mayonnaise). Also look for water in the oil (or oil in the water for that matter). These are usually indications that the head gasket is going to fail soon - very expensive unless you are handy with spanners and it's an old car with a simple engine. If you open the radiator cap when the engine is hot, open it very slowly with a big towel or rag wrapped around your hand, in case it erupts (did this in my face once, very painful). Check all vacuum lines and belts, and generally give things a good look.
That's about as much as I can think of right now, but I'm sure I'll have missed stuff.
One last word of advice would be - always go to see a car with the mindset that you aren't going to buy it.
Please feel free to correct me on anything