Lactucarium extraction

[Leshrac]

Simple question, it has come to my attention that an opium-effect-like substance could be extracted from the wild lettuce (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactuca_virosa).

From what i read only bathing the plants in hot water for 2 days then allowing to evaporate is enough but it doesn't seem too convincing either.

Would an ethanol wash be necessary for purification ?

[sexualjesus]

i will bump this thread for relevent interest

[Ford Prefect]

Depends what you're planning to do with the material. If you're just looking for something to toke, then the latex derived from a hot water extraction should be plenty sufficient even without purification. If you'd like to refine it a bit, you might try dissolving the latex in hot water and using fine wire mesh, an old tshirt, or an ex's stocking to remove the wax, then evaporating off the water to recover your product. I figure that'd be the easiest way to get a decent product as even with a couple ethanol pulls I suppose you'd probably still be getting tar. Maybe it'd be worth trying an A/B, maybe not, I'll look into it a bit in the morning. Either way make sure to post results!

EDIT: As VB said, he doesn't look like an A/B would work/be worth it. Read reports claiming successful extractions with acetone, ethanol, IPA and ether though none were kind enough to include their yield. Frankly, I wouldn't expect much more than mild sedation from this plant though.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y113/creekfreek/aubergierssyrupoflactucarium.jpg

[Von Bass]

http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=62455

Erowid has quite a few reports pertaining to people who've experimented with extractions, looks quite interesting.

That one does appear to claim that a standard A/B isn't going to work, or at least that similar or as-good-as results can be obtained with a simple alcohol extraction. Their claiming of getting an 'off white' crystalline solid from fresh plant matter seems a little far fetched to me though.

[stateofhack]

Intresting, they sell this plant a my local head shop, what amounts are we talking about for some product?

I was thinking something like this:

1) Get your plant matter
2) Boil Vodka (carefully please)
3) add it too plant matter
4) Evap the mess
5) dissolve all of the sticky residue in a minimum of boiling water
6) Gravity filter all the mess with an old shirt (should remove waxes and insoluble poop)
7) Evap water
8) Collect residue

If someone does it could they please test the "gunk" solubility in the following solvents:

IPA, water, acetone, ether, EtOH, MeOH

Thanks!

Ps: I hope think my cat will get around to trying this when he has some time.

[incorporated]

If you can pull the goodness with water, don't use alcohol until you're cleaning the product. Ethanol will pull chlorophylls and other crap, for sure.

Edit: I didn't intend to imply I was certain that alcohols will be viable cleaning agents for the end product, you'll have to do some experimentation. Do you have a way to measure boiling points?

[Leshrac]

I'll try to hunt around for this plant this week-end; luckily there's a few parks around here so unless i'm shit out of luck i should find some :)

Edit: Lol, gardening sites say this plant can reach 15cm in two weeks after being planted; might aswell just buy seeds and grow these fuckers ^^

[JoePedo]

That one does appear to claim that a standard A/B isn't going to work, or at least that similar or as-good-as results can be obtained with a simple alcohol extraction.

http://www.pharmazie.uni-mainz.de/AK-Stoe/DB/Gruppe19/bilder/struktur/lactucin.gif

Prior to lysis, a cyclic lactone does not a carboxylic acid make.

Their claiming of getting an 'off white' crystalline solid from fresh plant matter seems a little far fetched to me though.

:)

Chuck in some baking soda. Scoop the rocks. rinse with 10:1 dilute bicarb solution. Chances are, degraded clorophyll will make it slightly "off-white" if you do the less-than-full a/b anyways.

PRO TIP : a/b from mass leaf matter, not the whole plant. Certain internet rumors suggest that not all the related compounds are alkaloidal.

[Von Bass]

Fair enough, I'll believe it when I hear a trusted chaps report or do it myself.

And are you the real JP? It strikes me the name would be quite a target to impersonate.

[JoePedo]

And are you the real JP? It strikes me the name would be quite a target to impersonate.

Yes. Yes, I'd imagine it would...

See, this is one of those logic puzzles. I'd say yes, because, well... I am. But an imposter would say "yes," by virtue of the definition of "imposter."

'n unfortunately, whichever one of us is the imposter is probably not going to be so predictable as to answer mechanistically if asked what the OTHER guy would say...

...but, I say I am. 'n there's a few things that can help people back this up, without having to trust me or anyone at all.

First, before I hit this "post" button, there are about seven posts of mine out there. Are they of a batshit insane person hell-bent on laughing their way to the grave? In those seven posts, have we covered the use of sunflower oil as an opioid potentiator, the ability to manufacture anything from abject trash, and hopefully-successfully told some dude to go back to doing heroin after his mind is a bit more stable than "doing heroin because some idiot blurted out random shit once?"

If so, I might be me.

The second thing, is that if one can verify that Ms. Denise is, in fact, Ms. Denise, one could ask my travel secretary to email the adress used to schedule the exotic south-american pleasure cruise over the internet. Then, one could ask me to check my email.

The third thing, is that if SN can be verified as actually being SN, one could ask him if he remembered what my MSN was before it up and died.

That's one I could actually prove was me even if someone posted it in response to this thread, for a wide array of reasons. Unfortunately, having my MSN isn't one of those reasons, but... it's awwight. Of course, I could just post the (dead) MSN here once someone confirmed that they'd gotten it off him.

The fourth thing is that the aforementioned travel agent has a PGP key generated for purpouse of scheduling the vacation activities. That one actually is proof of identity in most circles, as opposed to strong circumstantial evidence. Except, of course, that if I was dumb enough to store my passphrase on my computer, that I might be impersonated by a governmental agency or clever home theif.

...it still reduces the chances, though.

So, there are some ways in which you don't have to trust me to confirm when I say "yes." If not, well... I'm unimpersonable. I hope...

How's it goin'?

[Von Bass]

I'm unimpersonable.

Yeah, I'll trust you to be who you claim now. Whoever that is.

Your first post in this thread, if you'll forgive my paranoid scrutiny, looked a little like someone trying to impersonate your style. The three word sentence 'scoop the rocks', and the use a space between 'pro' and 'tip' were what initially piqued my doubt-o-meter, if you care. I merely assume instead that you lacked the time to type out your more common type of reply. Besides, most of the rest of your posts, as you point out, are very much in the style of original JP. So thanks for heading over, I think we want as many LTers as we can.

[Fra]

hi all, I've got from ebay 60g of Wild Lettuce(I read something about it on erowid, and it was pretty cheap, so I decided to give it a try); it should arrive soon. I'm planning an ethanol/IPA extraction in order to get the opium(the tar-like substance you got from dry leaves). However, I thought I could get the clean crystals of lactucin and then acetylate them through Acetic anhydride. would this work? I mean, does lactucin acetate exist?
PS
I don't think it's a scam, as all the negative reports about it are from people who didn't extracted it(they just smoked the leaves as if it was weed).

[Von Bass]

However, I thought I could get the clean crystals of lactucin and then acetylate them through Acetic anhydride. would this work? I mean, does lactucin acetate exist?


As far as I can tell, you could acylate an OH group on there, just looking at the structure JP posted. Whether this would increase its potency, its metabolism, etc etc is not something I could even guess.

I believe, for example, heroin is 'stronger' than morphine due to it, when administered IV, being a little more lipid soluble, and therefore have less trouble moving between the blood brain barrier, purely becuase of the two acetyl groups. Whether lactucin is metabolised in the same fashion, or whether the acetyl group might affect its shape is, as I said, not something I know.

Try it and see? You'd have to head for a fairly pure extract first though.

[micro]

Yes try it, if you have any Acetic Anhydride to spare on experiments.

[stateofhack]

As far as I can tell, you could acylate an OH group on there, just looking at the structure JP posted. Whether this would increase its potency, its metabolism, etc etc is not something I could even guess.

I believe, for example, heroin is 'stronger' than morphine due to it, when administered IV, being a little more lipid soluble, and therefore have less trouble moving between the blood brain barrier, purely becuase of the two acetyl groups. Whether lactucin is metabolised in the same fashion, or whether the acetyl group might affect its shape is, as I said, not something I know.

Try it and see? You'd have to head for a fairly pure extract first though.

Indeed, IIRC Heroin is stronger just because the two acetyl groups increase its solubility and help crossing the BBB quicker, once in there in it back morphine.

Interesting thing you mention there Von Bass, but yes, my cat would not mind trying it once a pure extract has been isolate. So far it just looks like a bunch of tar...the cleaning continues :)