Capital Punishment - Just or Unfair

[kellie-marie]

What does the population of Zoklet think of Capital Punishment as a means of retribution?

If it was to be reinstated, for what crimes.
I want to hear Zokian's opinions.

[slm33d]

It is just.
If someone killed your parents would you want them to be able to walk free 50 years later?. I don't think so they ended your parents life so why should they get to keep theirs?.

In the right circumstance it is just but not for every crime.

[kellie-marie]

Some argue an eye for an eye leaves society blind.
How can we teach children morals if the punishment to murder is also murder?
Some would also argue that life imprisonment is worse than death.

[aussiedude]

great for retribution... if thats all you want

but then thats like saying that the past couple hundred years of progression in the criminal justice system and criminology might as well be forgotten


oh and funny little stat for all that add to this forum, sex offenders are actually less likely to re-offend than most other criminals released from prison

[slm33d]

That's usually because in jail they are the lowest of the low and cop EVERYTHING . So what do you belive a murderer shoud cop ? 50 years an be released*sp?. If anything like this happened to you (not that its happened to me) you would want them to suffer as much as you have? Its a basic instinct I believe.

[LiquidIce]

In between. Our government wouldn't be able to refrain from using it against political enemies. Also, the justice system is fucked up in a way that it can be manipulated or outthought - basically meaning that the right amount of cash would let you legally kill people. Maybe not you, but someone who has enemies.

I'd think that instead of capital punishment these people should just be sent to labor camps - make simple tools, mine minerals etc.

[aussiedude]

That's usually because in jail they are the lowest of the low and cop EVERYTHING . So what do you belive a murderer shoud cop ? 50 years an be released*sp?. If anything like this happened to you (not that its happened to me) you would want them to suffer as much as you have? Its a basic instinct I believe.

despite all of the unintended effects of jail, in (far too occasional) cases it can actually help an offender when they leave prison

murder has to be case by case, infanticide as an obvious point of where a murderer really doesnt deserve jail time, also consider when the elderly kill, or where euthanasia occurs, or the fact that a lot of murderers won't actually re-offend when released

prison really should be kept as a last resort where absolutely necessary, and there should be programs in place so to prevent or lower the liklihood of offending, post-release

sure instincts may say one thing but to do so completely ignores justice and is mere retribution which does not aid society as a whole

[slm33d]

I really don't mean to be rude but you sound like an idealistic bitch? .

[aussiedude]

I really don't mean to be rude but you sound like an idealistic bitch? .

not idealistic, more so literally a week from finishing a bachelours in social science, criminal justice

sure part of me thinks that some people should never be released and that it would be cost effective, but its not the best option as an across the board sanction when sentencing practices need to weigh up numerous factors in determining a sanction

[slm33d]

Ohk still regardless you don't reckon someone who takes no regard of someone elses life should be allowed to live?. I mean they just sit in their cell wasting tax money as bad as this sounds its just like the pound. In my opinion killers should be killed ?

I mean sure there are accidents like car crashes but murderers*sp shouldn't be allowed to live. That's my opinion I don't expect you or anyone to accept it but hey someone might agree who knows lol. Oh and congrats on finishing. What uni ?

[aussiedude]

yeh there is a big issue with the whole no regrets thing, like it is a pretty bad thing but until euthanasia is completely legalised well there's a pretty big difference

but yeh a lack of remorse does result in a harsher penalty so it is taken care of in a way

a benefit is however that those who wont be released will of course be used in prison industries (where available) or in services such as cleaning or cooking in prison to balance out the tax cost


Australian Institute of Public Saftey, indepedant one in melbourne, not a big one like deakin, or monash or anything fancy lol, still a pretty damn good uni but

[Radford, Howard L.]

What does the population of Zoklet think of Capital Punishment as a means of retribution?

Horrible means of retribution, it's too simply-minded, especially with the way the judiciary executes. First they paralyze you, then they put you to sleep, and with the final shot of potassium, they give you a heart attack in your sleep, so you don't feel a thing. I know soccor moms that deal out worse punishments to their own kids.

Now to a better question, should the government be allowed to deal out retribution. Rehablitation is the morally right decision to make, and since the govenment is responsible for setting the moral of the nation, and we as the people expect the government to always make the right decision, then there's no way you can say that capital punishment is just.

Of course none of that matters, because everyone over 16 knows that the government is simply the mafia on steroids, a criminal organization that stole all the controlling power over america, and call what they do justice. If anyone else did what the government does, the government would imprison them, so that they would keep the controlling power of america.

[Struwwelpeter]

The death penalty should be reserved for murderers, home invaders, rape of any nature, and political dissenters against white human interests, such as race mixers, integrationists, anti-racists, humanists, egalitarian (non-white nationalist) Christians, Jews, militant atheists, satanists, leftists, egalitarians, hardcore feminists etc. It should be carried out by speedy trial (perhaps a few minutes/seconds for all but murderers) and a one-way trip to the guillotine at the local county (nation) square.

[aussiedude]

I think capital punishment should be brought back for rapists / murderers / molesters etc. because those people are just plain sick.

On the other hand, crimes such as robbery / burglary / theft etc. should just mean a few years in jail.

The big problem with cap. punishment though is if the person is innocent but still killed for the crime.

what about statutory rapists (within a reasonable age gap, not like 40 years, but say a 15 year old and 18 year old)? considering that the average of a person losing their virginity is under 16 this does raise issues

murder if it is euthanasia and the "victim" was a terminally ill person who completely consented and the "murderer was in fact a loving caring relative"?

molesters and rapists can actually be rehabilitated though

[Struwwelpeter]

molesters and rapists can actually be rehabilitated though

No they can not and even if they could it would be irrelevant.

[Travis Bickle]

The world is overpopulated. So, why not kill the bad ones.

[Nero]

If it was to be reinstated, for what crimes.
I want to hear Zokian's opinions.

What? :confused:

[aussiedude]

What? :confused:

most places including states in the united states of america have abolished the death penalty

[Zay]

The death penalty should be reserved for murderers, home invaders, rape of any nature, and political dissenters against white human interests, such as race mixers, integrationists, anti-racists, humanists, egalitarian (non-white nationalist) Christians, Jews, militant atheists, satanists, leftists, egalitarians, hardcore feminists etc. It should be carried out by speedy trial (perhaps a few minutes/seconds for all but murderers) and a one-way trip to the guillotine at the local county (nation) square.


In other words, everyone that doesn't agree with you should be killed?

This, if carried out, would kill more white people than the groups you're against.

[Syphilis]

Depends on the crime.

[007GoldenShower]

Primitive practise which doesn't solve anything.

Rot in jail for as long as possible, a few tax dollars doesn't bother me.

[Dog]

Many people just can't stomach the idea of government-sanctioned violence. I don't care about it from a moral standpoint...it isn't more morally righteous to take someone's freedom just because you don't cause them physical distress. I'd say the main problem with the death penalty is that there are wrongfully convicted people, but again, taking a wrongfully convicted person's freedom for dozens of years isn't really any better.

And by the way: The quote "eye for an eye leaves everyone blind" has a nice ring to it, but it's idiotic and doesn't apply to reality.

[Launchpad]

I would say that taking somebodys freedom for years is better than Killing Them. Ask Donald Marshall Junior, David Milgaard, or Stephen Truscott whether or not they would have rather taken the death penalty (sorry only Canadian examples)...In fact, I think Truscott was sentanced to hang (at the age of 14..) but it was reduced to live in prison when Canada got rid of capital punishment. Each of these men eventually got out and were given payments by the government for their hardships, although I don't imagine any money can take away the horror of being imprisoned for the entirety of ones young life, (put away for 25 years wrongly at 14..goddamn that sucks), but at least now they have the money and freedom to try and come to grips with what has happened to them.

People who are executed wrongly would never get that chance. There'd just be a bunch of people standing around later saying 'Oh Well'.

[kellie-marie]

I am noticing a pattern here, a lot of the people are talking about tax dollars for keeping the people in jail.
Mostly, Capital Punishment is more costly than Jail Time.

Yea. Just thought I would throw that in there :)

[Allen]

I don't trust the state to dole out death sentences and decide how long to imprison people. I think it should be a community decision, gotten at through public, common opinion. Some may think this is utopian, but, oh well.

I guess, since I view the justice system just as a big psychological chess match between lawyers, objective of innocence or guilt of their respective clients, I don't give it much credit. If you come into my home and try to steal my things, I will shoot you in the gut with a shotgun. do I think the state should decide what happens to you after you commit a crime? Nah because they just fuck it up. Coming to a community decision would be how I would want to deal with the anti-socials and the violent types.

just my thoughts,

allen

[kellie-marie]

Thanks to all who have participated in this discussion, It's been heavily appreciated.

[Cliche Guevara]

I don't trust the state to dole out death sentences and decide how long to imprison people. I think it should be a community decision, gotten at through public, common opinion. Some may think this is utopian, but, oh well.

I guess, since I view the justice system just as a big psychological chess match between lawyers, objective of innocence or guilt of their respective clients, I don't give it much credit. If you come into my home and try to steal my things, I will shoot you in the gut with a shotgun. do I think the state should decide what happens to you after you commit a crime? Nah because they just fuck it up. Coming to a community decision would be how I would want to deal with the anti-socials and the violent types.

just my thoughts,

allen

Well the idea of a Grand Jury to determine guilt is kind of "community", but its not the same as having a separate NGO responsible for carrying out justice. (which I think is rather illogical)

Anyways, to me it always seems that capital punishment is really talking about the $50,000 dollars a year it costs to keep an inmate in jail. When someone murders somebody in cold blood or whatever circumstance it takes to 'get' executed, there life is over regardless of whether or not they actually die or not.

Sure existence is better than non existence, but in essence there 'life' is over. They can no longer live a 'life' (so to speak). So why cant they continue to exist? Capital punishment is wrong and its not okay to commit murder in retribution for another. the 50,000 dollars a year is societies burden. Note how most civilized countries and US States agree.

[Dog]

I would say that taking somebodys freedom for years is better than Killing Them. Ask Donald Marshall Junior, David Milgaard, or Stephen Truscott whether or not they would have rather taken the death penalty (sorry only Canadian examples)...In fact, I think Truscott was sentanced to hang (at the age of 14..) but it was reduced to live in prison when Canada got rid of capital punishment. Each of these men eventually got out and were given payments by the government for their hardships, although I don't imagine any money can take away the horror of being imprisoned for the entirety of ones young life, (put away for 25 years wrongly at 14..goddamn that sucks), but at least now they have the money and freedom to try and come to grips with what has happened to them.

People who are executed wrongly would never get that chance. There'd just be a bunch of people standing around later saying 'Oh Well'.

Good point.

Although I don't have ANY problem with guilty murderers being executed, I guess it should be off the table since people can be wrongfully accused. If there was some way that it could only be used with those who were undoubtedly guilty, then I might want the death penalty to stay.

[JustAnotherAsshole]

Not only is killing one person for killing another hypocritical, but last I heard, there are dozens upon dozens of cases in which a person is executed, then evidence proving them innocent is found.

You can always free a person after wrongfully imprisoning them, but you can never take back death.

[Ecko]

For Murder, it is just.

For Drug Trafficking, no.

[Dog]

Not only is killing one person for killing another hypocritical,

It's only hypocritical if someone is against all killing period. I am only against killing innocent people.