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Tamerlane
01-21-2009, 04:16 PM
Note: I will immediately say that I don't live in America or the UK, although this same problem probably applies to those countries as well.

Hello everyone, only two weeks into the start of the new semester at my (new) school, and already I am despairing. No, it isn't about me not having any friends there or something like that - in fact, it is the opposite(although that is an interesting point that I'll get back to a bit later) - but the school system itself and how it is built and how it works.
So the school I go to is called the French Lycee(of my city), is a publically funded school, has three classes in each year, etc.
For example, I am in the History profile/class - and I really love history. History and most things involved with it - anthropology, language, etc. But I feel myself being held back in the pursuit of knowledge and learning in History(and its affiliated subjects) by other things that I really dislike. For example: Math and Chemistry. These are subjects that just do not interest me and although I realise they could very well be useful later on, I still don't see why we have to have 4 lessons of Chemistry a week, the same number as History. To be honest, though, it isn't the subjects that I find... deplorable, but rather the teachers. Overworked and inexperienced, they cannot teach their subject well at all. For chrissake, the Chem teacher doesn't even know the national language he's teaching in(Latvian) that well - he speaks with a horrible accent and grammatical errors that make me want to wither and die, and on top of it all, every once in a while goes on about the New World Order and how the "global mafia" is in Switzerland. I assume that he is talking about the Davos forum, but that isn't what I'm talking about now...
Or take the English teacher, for example. She seems qualified, but I can tell that she is speaking - and teaching her students - fucked-up English. Now, I lived in America for a few years and speak, I guess, "American" English, but I know that even in British English people don't use the expressions she does.
Other teachers are just boring and can't hold the attention of the class - our Cultural History teacher makes Buddhism and Hinduism - among the most interesting of religions, in my opinion - sound like dull, lifeless terms and phrases.
Now, about my classmates. They're good people and all, and it could have been much worse with them, but I constantly keep getting the impression that they could give less than a fuck about History. Ie, a girl asking me whether there were trains in the 1970's, a guy who just sleeps in the History lessons(which are not boring, by the way). Th entrance exam into that class was a joke - nothing from French or world history, just Latvia in the 20th Century - a caricature of Stalin and Hitler and needing to tell them apart, a little bit of context, what happened on so-and-so date. In short - they were too easy, and total FUCKING idiots got in.

My main problems are uninterested, poor teachers, classmates uninterested in the main course lessons, pretty badly thought-out curriculums and lesson plans. What are the problems in your local education system and how could they be solved? :confused: We have ONE outstanding school in our city. ONE. Called the 1st Gymnasium, of course, and there they have a truly good education. But it is a math school, and I'm weak in that area, no hopes of getting in.

Little bit of context: 16 years old, Latvia.

Revvy
01-21-2009, 04:47 PM
Schools need to teach skills and things which are relevant, not bullshit content we'll forget.

Language:
Language
Foreign Language

Logic:
Maths + Science - self explanatory really.
ICT (not just word, excel, etc, but students should be taught about how to build computers, about different operating systems, how to do basic repairs, etc. Give students basic core knowledge)
Critical Thinking - very important for people to know how to think critically about things. CT is probably one of the most useful subjects, but it's never taught. It's bullshit. A free thinking society is a superior society.

Humanities:
Fuck in depth studies, everybody will forget the content. There should be 1 term for each area of humanities, so each student can be INSPIRED on the subject and will actually want to learn it out of class, and so that students will have a very basic, well rounded general knowledge. Also, it makes students able to make more rrational choices when it comes to specialising if they're clued up about the various different areas. I was never taught economics, psychology, sociology and some others in high school, so taking them subjects in college was a huge gamble.

Life Skills:
Accounting - why the fuck aren't we taught how to manage finances?!!
Law - it should be pretty obvious that in order for society to work smoothly, we should be taught the basics of law
Politics - again, every citizen should know the ins and outs of their nation's political system, otherwise it just feels like exploitation
Media Studies - the media is a powerful entity, thus it's extremely important that the population know how to differentiate between viewpoints and recognise bias.

These subjects should be rotated termly or something, as there's obviously a lot there to learn and there just wouldn't be enough time for everything. Rotating subjects also keeps things fresh for students.

Cliche Guevara
01-21-2009, 05:02 PM
So there are only 4 classes you can take?? History, English, Math and Chemistry?? (IN Canada you only have to take math until year 2, then you can choose if you want to take college math, calculas + advanced functions, or data management. For humanties, after yr 2 you can take world history, canadian history, american history, philosophy, etc. There are several English courses as well (writers craft, media studies,) not to mention a bunch of business and art electives. I think school should offer a wide variety of classes, and you are very very right in assuming that your school is very limited in how and what they teach. And science is only manadatory until year 2, but then you cna take bio, chem or physics if you want.

I really dont agree with the bread and water kind of educational system you seem to be going through, at least some aspects of school should be fun ( i had a blast in outdoor ed and photography)

I dont now anything about the latvian educational system (but it seems very inadequate), I seriously suggest you study outside of school, and I really hope you go to University of Latvia or w/e

Tamerlane
01-21-2009, 05:42 PM
Sorry, didn't make that clear - I have more classes than those 4 - Philosophy, Literature, Latvian, French, etc.
I really enjoy literature since the teacher we have for it is, I think, the best in the school, and philosophy as well, but here is another problem - we have only one lesson of philosophy a week, for 40 minutes. Tell me, do you think anything can be learned in that time span?

I'll post a more complete answer later.

Edit:

Alright, so where was I...
Right. We don't have a chance to do photography, writers craft, or media studies. Nope. Nada. We have theatre, choir, dancing, and basketball as out-of-school activities. I'm in the theatre group, but we're a measly bunch in any case... 8 people? 9? In any case, not too many. In my own time, really out of school, I go to Persian/Farsi lessons, but that is hardly a wide topic/activity. I'm thinking of starting to go to the pool or something like that after hours, but that takes money, which there is precious little of around here.
But enough moaning - what could be done about this?
I think a good place to start would be making it a bit more demanding to become a teacher. That way, if teachers are taught skills such as motivating students to learn and being an interesting speaker, the classes might get bigger(because of less available teachers), but the teachers themselves would be more prepared to handle them. Of course, an incentive would have to be offered as well - I think it is appalling how little teachers earn for their work.
What else? More freedom for the students to choose their courses/lessons, maybe?

Struwwelpeter
01-21-2009, 10:25 PM
Here's the best way to correct it: abolish it. All education is a privilege, not a right. All schools are private and under no one's jurisdiction. Attaining a degree does absolutely nothing to ensure one's economic success. Under these conditions education would be for just that, enlightenment.

Bender
01-22-2009, 02:05 AM
"Let me control the textbooks, and I will control the state." - Adolf Hitler

"I suppose it is because nearly all children go to school nowadays and have things arranged for them that they seem so forlornly unable to produce their own ideas."

"The millions of dollars which we devote every year to high-school education are, for the most part, money spent for the retarding of intelligence, the discouragement of efficiency, the stunting of character."

Cliche Guevara
01-22-2009, 03:27 AM
"Let me control the textbooks, and I will control the state." - Adolf Hitler

"I suppose it is because nearly all children go to school nowadays and have things arranged for them that they seem so forlornly unable to produce their own ideas."

"The millions of dollars which we devote every year to high-school education are, for the most part, money spent for the retarding of intelligence, the discouragement of efficiency, the stunting of character."



Yes, they should just make kids read like a few a month books from a huge compendium of preapproved authors (this may sound facshist, but the list could be very liberal) that makes you think and shit.

Tamerlane
01-22-2009, 10:11 AM
Yes, they should just make kids read like a few a month books from a huge compendium of preapproved authors (this may sound facshist, but the list could be very liberal) that makes you think and shit.

But see, that wouldn't work either - you're MAKING the kids read, and nothing changes. Just because they read Plato's and Cicero's works because you make them doesn't mean they'll remember them - indeed, they'll most likely forget about them after the test. I think giving children/students pretty free reign would be a better idea - encourage them to learn, tell them what good education and knowledge can give them in life, let them explore their interests, but for the love of god, DON'T make them learn Roman history or complex mathematics and physics if they don't want to.

Agent 008
01-22-2009, 11:10 AM
1). More Scholarships for able students.

The choice of a place to study should be made based on where the student wishes to study, and on his merit. Money should not come into the equation.

2). Stricter standards. The education programmes should not be based around the fact that the least able student should be able to pass it. The levels should be high, even if it means that only a few people will actually graduate and get a diploma. Money should not come into the equation.

3). Greater freedoms to the educational institutions to pick their students. I am not a big fan of nationwide exams. This may increase corruption, so this one is not that easy.


Regarding all you people talking about kids only reading the text-books - this is irrelevant. If a kid wants to read more, he will. It's up to parents to encourage them, really. Yes, most people don't care and will be satisfied with whatever is shoved down their throats, but you can't change that. Those who want more can get more, and that's the important thing.

Bender
01-22-2009, 03:40 PM
I'm in the 10th grade at the moment. And to be honest, what they teach about 70% I can say with a clear mind that I will never use. Especially on math. I was never a big fan of math, but I think all you need to have going threw life is your basics, unless your career path involves alot of math. Stem and Leaf Plots I will never use, Quadratic equations, thats another no. I think if in high school, or late middle school, they could break you into diffrent classes depending on job opportunity's and what you wanted to do. That would prep more students for the outside world, instead of this state requirement bullshit.:mad:

Agent 008
01-22-2009, 04:01 PM
I'm in the 10th grade at the moment. And to be honest, what they teach about 70% I can say with a clear mind that I will never use. Especially on math. I was never a big fan of math, but I think all you need to have going threw life is your basics, unless your career path involves alot of math. Stem and Leaf Plots I will never use, Quadratic equations, thats another no. I think if in high school, or late middle school, they could break you into diffrent classes depending on job opportunity's and what you wanted to do. That would prep more students for the outside world, instead of this state requirement bullshit.:mad:

I finished school around 3-4 years ago; I was a technical person, and naturally, maths interested me more than biology.

However, as much as I found annoying preparing (or rather, not preparing) and sitting (sleeping) through the humanities, I still think it was worth it. I learned bits and pieces about things that are worth knowing, and I "exercised" my brain in analysing things in those areas. E.g. learning to analyse historical events is good for you, even if you aren't particularly interested in history and won't remember a single historical date after you graduate. Same way as studying maths is just good exercise in logical thinking for your brains.

So, I'd say, really get into the subjects you are interested in (and learn things on them wayy beyond what school gives you), and just "get by" on the subjects you couldn't care less about (which, let's face it, doesn't require much effort).

Bender
01-22-2009, 05:02 PM
I finished school around 3-4 years ago; I was a technical person, and naturally, maths interested me more than biology.

However, as much as I found annoying preparing (or rather, not preparing) and sitting (sleeping) through the humanities, I still think it was worth it. I learned bits and pieces about things that are worth knowing, and I "exercised" my brain in analysing things in those areas. E.g. learning to analyse historical events is good for you, even if you aren't particularly interested in history and won't remember a single historical date after you graduate. Same way as studying maths is just good exercise in logical thinking for your brains.

So, I'd say, really get into the subjects you are interested in (and learn things on them wayy beyond what school gives you), and just "get by" on the subjects you couldn't care less about (which, let's face it, doesn't require much effort).


Thats very true. I'll take it from you, I guess seemingly nonsense math subjects do help the brain think threw things.

Mister B
01-22-2009, 10:26 PM
I really think they need to have better teachers. Teachers (good ones anyway) should be paid more to make their time more worthwhile. If you have a good teacher to teach material, more students will be inclined to learn. Having teachers who sound like Ben Stein does nothing to excite a student's desire to learn. All it does is make them want to go to sleep.

Cliche Guevara
01-22-2009, 10:59 PM
But the thing is, MOST educational systems in the world are mandatory for all kids, which means public funding is spread very thin.

I think they do a pretty good job in Canada, with their public education.

Agent 008
01-22-2009, 11:03 PM
I really think they need to have better teachers. Teachers (good ones anyway) should be paid more to make their time more worthwhile. If you have a good teacher to teach material, more students will be inclined to learn. Having teachers who sound like Ben Stein does nothing to excite a student's desire to learn. All it does is make them want to go to sleep.

The best teachers are often willing to teach for free.

I can vouch for that - the best school I ever went to was one which was founded to be "pro bono" - where the teachers were all ex-graduates from the school (with the exception of the founding teachers). They only gave a few lectures/classes each day in the evenings, so it worked.

The best things about that, was:

1). The students couldn't "demand" anything from the teachers. The teachers gave the information and set the classes. If it's too tough - well, deal with it.
2). They could get rid of a lot of students who weren't interested enough in the subjects to work hard and look up things themselves. In fact, 90% of the students enrolled dropped out before graduation.
3). All the teachers were really enthusiastic about what they were teaching - and so were the remaining students. It wasn't the kind of enthusiasm that you get from a student that's paid a small fortune for a course, and goes to the lectures just because he feels he has to since he paid for them.

Cliche Guevara
01-23-2009, 12:05 AM
Yeah for some people money is non factor in why they teach.

My high school chemistry teacher had a pH.d in fluid dynamics and my philosophy teacher was a lawyer doing pro bono work in some south american country.

Both of them realized the importance of teaching youth , and I think they are both very commendable people who gave up huge paying salaries for this responsibility.

Mister B
01-23-2009, 01:53 AM
The best teachers are often willing to teach for free.

I can vouch for that - the best school I ever went to was one which was founded to be "pro bono" - where the teachers were all ex-graduates from the school (with the exception of the founding teachers). They only gave a few lectures/classes each day in the evenings, so it worked.

The best things about that, was:

1). The students couldn't "demand" anything from the teachers. The teachers gave the information and set the classes. If it's too tough - well, deal with it.
2). They could get rid of a lot of students who weren't interested enough in the subjects to work hard and look up things themselves. In fact, 90% of the students enrolled dropped out before graduation.
3). All the teachers were really enthusiastic about what they were teaching - and so were the remaining students. It wasn't the kind of enthusiasm that you get from a student that's paid a small fortune for a course, and goes to the lectures just because he feels he has to since he paid for them.

Really? That's awesome. I really like the sound of that school.

Bilbo
01-29-2009, 05:30 AM
It appears that the main problem with the education system is the students.

The idea that most of what you learn in high school is "useless shit" has to be eradicated; high school students have this idea that what they should be learning are applied concepts, which they can use for "real life." However, they have no idea that high school is simply incapable of teaching applicable material; there are far too many options for high school to be able to cover them all. Therefore, there must be a lessened focus on general curriculum and leeway allowed for student's individual study on interesting subjects.

In addition, subclasses of students set up. Students that are obviously superior in intelligence need to be treated as such and be put in difficult, heavy theoretical work, which is naturally more appealing to the intelligent mind.

An emphasis on philosophy and sociology will also help. Then even normal kids will be able to think on a deeper level in regards to education, perhaps even learn to enjoy it. A general understanding of the world needs to be taught; though this may be seen as indoctrination, as long as a completely free environment in which the fledgling thinker may challenge the teacher without repercussion, philosophy and sociology classes would be a huge plus.

Now, college, on the other hand, is a rather good system imo. Students work hard or they are spending money and time on nothing.

BigSteamers
01-29-2009, 05:49 AM
High schools in America are day cares first, a social convention second and an education center thrid. However, kids need to be entertained and have some social contact. It shouldn't take a kid 12 years of school to begin learning algebra or trigonometry but it can often by the case.

Schools do not need a cirriculum change. Teachers are largely low payed educators but highly paid babysitters. Face it, kids at the high school age are horny, obnoxious and stink like shit. You try teaching them algebra.

Agent 008
01-29-2009, 08:26 AM
It appears that the main problem with the education system is the students.

Considering that the education system is there FOR the students...

The students that are actually interested in getting knowledge. I'm not a big fan of education being merely an "investment", that you get merely to start earning bigger bucks.

Cliche Guevara
01-31-2009, 02:36 AM
High schools in America are day cares first, a social convention second and an education center thrid. However, kids need to be entertained and have some social contact. It shouldn't take a kid 12 years of school to begin learning algebra or trigonometry but it can often by the case.

Schools do not need a cirriculum change. Teachers are largely low payed educators but highly paid babysitters. Face it, kids at the high school age are horny, obnoxious and stink like shit. You try teaching them algebra.

I think high school should be more specialized and go for 5 years. after 3 years of general knowledge, you get into more job specific courses, having classes like world issues in the last year of high school is bullshit.

ArmsMerchant
01-31-2009, 08:17 PM
First, abolish local school boards and establish national standards for cirricula.

Cupcake Cowboy
01-31-2009, 11:27 PM
First, abolish local school boards and establish national standards for cirricula.

Yeah, i think this would be a great start. I came from a small ass school in buttfuck, nebraska that was run by parents who wanted to increase our percentage of graduates by lowering the standards, it seems. I always got A's-A+'s, but the worst marks for effort, they never offered me any type of advanced classes because I would've been the only one in them, nobody else even tried and the school board didn't care.

I also think they should offer some sort of independent study program. I purposely misbehaved to get in-school suspension so I didn't have to sit in class. They put me in a back room by myself and gave me the day's assignments and my books. I always got everything done in 2 hours or less (then slept) and my grades even started going up. I would have done much better in independent study, I believe, and it would've saved me from sitting in class for 6 extra hours listening to the teacher explain shit to the other students. Time is precious in high school, I had to go to school/work 14 hours a day just to be able to pay for my car to even get to school.

BiggLJ
02-01-2009, 12:46 AM
I also think they should offer some sort of independent study program. I purposely misbehaved to get in-school suspension so I didn't have to sit in class. They put me in a back room by myself and gave me the day's assignments and my books. I always got everything done in 2 hours or less (then slept) and my grades even started going up. I would have done much better in independent study, I believe, and it would've saved me from sitting in class for 6 extra hours listening to the teacher explain shit to the other students. Time is precious in high school, I had to go to school/work 14 hours a day just to be able to pay for my car to even get to school.

There are online schools now where you can work at your own pace. I did one for a year and the work was definitely a lot less boring. Instead of having to listen to some teacher lecture or read from a book at a slow pace so everyone can follow along, you do the work at the pace you want. I had one of the laziest school schedules ever and I still managed to get all A's.

Phinehas
02-02-2009, 09:50 AM
Critical Thinking - very important for people to know how to think critically about things. CT is probably one of the most useful subjects, but it's never taught. It's bullshit. A free thinking society is a superior society

Perhaps the government doesn't want its serfs thinking critically?

Agent 008
02-02-2009, 11:17 AM
Critical Thinking - very important for people to know how to think critically about things. CT is probably one of the most useful subjects, but it's never taught. It's bullshit. A free thinking society is a superior society.


It shouldn't be a subject. A good teacher would encourage critical thinking in his subject anyway.

Example: maths. A good teacher would say, "Don't believe anything I say. I may be bullshitting you. Don't believe anything until you see a proof". And then tell the kids some bullshit without a proof, and ridicule them if they believe him for good measure.

Same in History. Physics. Literature. Encourage students to challenge you. Tricky in some subjects, but possible in most.

Even if you have one such teacher in a school, it will have an effect on the kids.

cadel
02-03-2009, 12:19 PM
ha school is strang i spent 1 year doing science and at the end of the year the teacher wrote evrything we needed to do the exam it was 1 page of notes thats what our school achived in 1 year, a page of notes i spent 150 hours of my life learning crap that wasent needed in real life or in school half the stuff we did was things that would neva ever come up in life example(finding out that dry ice can be used as a way of cleaning floors)..........
school is desighend to filll 12 years of ur life up until society thinks ur capable of been a good drone dont get me wrong we need school at a basic levle but many new subjects are a waste of time take switsland and germany they have a 8 year school year and are the best performing students around ,america and other countries have a 12 year thing going and are pretty much plain stupid compared to them the reason why these countrys educational systems work is because they focus on stuff thats usfull insted of romeo and juliet or shakes spear whices only benefit is raising teen suicide.

lostmyface
02-04-2009, 06:35 PM
i think a main fault, in the usa, is that we dumb down our public schools. we labor under the assumption that everyone should go to college. in order to meet that goal we make the course's easier so that more students have qualifying GPA's. the stark truth of the matter is that not everyone is cut out for college. some would rather go to technical schools. others simply dont want anything beyond a high school diploma. some dont even want that much. but as long as we try an make sure everyone has the grades to get into university out educational system will be lacking.

i think the quickest way to have a lasting change on the education system would be to raise the pay of teachers substantialy. you have to attract smart motivated individuals into the profession. an most smart an motivated people are attracted to money. you give teachers a good wage, some thing that compares with doctors or engineers, an i guarantee you will have more qualified an motivated people choosing to become teachers.

BiggLJ
02-04-2009, 07:09 PM
No way teachers should get a raise, they get a 3 month vaca every year and they have a much easier job than doctors and engineers.

Intoxicated Shaman
02-04-2009, 07:12 PM
I'm in the 10th grade at the moment. And to be honest, what they teach about 70% I can say with a clear mind that I will never use. Especially on math. I was never a big fan of math, but I think all you need to have going threw life is your basics, unless your career path involves alot of math. Stem and Leaf Plots I will never use, Quadratic equations, thats another no. I think if in high school, or late middle school, they could break you into diffrent classes depending on job opportunity's and what you wanted to do. That would prep more students for the outside world, instead of this state requirement bullshit.:mad:

Yeah, 10th grade was exactly the same for me (who's your teacher, by the way?). Tons of useless shit. I'm in Algebra 2 right now and we're doing factoring, which I learned way back in like 7th grade. It's the same pointless shit over and over again every year.

Bender
02-04-2009, 08:59 PM
Yeah i'm in Arts so I got this black lady that I had in 7th grade again named Mrs Towns. This is my second time having her and were learning the same shit. Teach me how to do my fucking taxes or balance a check book, not this bullshit.:mad:

Dog
02-04-2009, 11:19 PM
A big problem is that testing is tied to funding. Simply put, all the schools get tested, and if the students score well, the school gets more funding, and if they don't the school doesn't. As a result, you have a "teach to the test" mentality that's quite dominant, and schools that really do need the money don't get them.

Another issue is that for most students, education isn't the purpose of being in high school. You wonder why Asians do so well in academics? Contrary to what intellectually lazy people want you to think, it's because they generally come from a culture that values education. Improve our cultural values, and then I think we'll see an improvement in students, and the education system itself.

Barack is a great step in the right direction. I'm really excited that everyone in the young, untainted generation is going to have him as a role model for the next 4 to 8 years, instead of say...L'il Wayne and Pitbull. I mean, can you imagine just how many young minds have been utterly poisoned by the popular media in the past 20 years? Now the most popular man in the world right now is intelligent, articulate, and the president of a country. A lot of people think the idea that he'll significantly change the country, let alone the world, is absurd, but you're really missing the point. This country (and some parts of the world) need a massive cultural change, and this is a big step in how we're going to get there.

lostmyface
02-05-2009, 08:33 PM
No way teachers should get a raise, they get a 3 month vaca every year and they have a much easier job than doctors and engineers.



right, but who motivated those people to become the successful individuals that they are now? you would be quite foolish if you did not acknowledge the role of teachers in these peoples success.

and also, have you ever tried to teach a room of 20+ mouthy suburban teenagers? yeah try that out then get back to me on how easy it was.

Dog
02-05-2009, 09:10 PM
right, but who motivated those people to become the successful individuals that they are now? you would be quite foolish if you did not acknowledge the role of teachers in these peoples success.

and also, have you ever tried to teach a room of 20+ mouthy suburban teenagers? yeah try that out then get back to me on how easy it was.

I have (10+, not 20+, but still...). Suburban kids and teenagers aren't that hard to handle...after a few weeks it mostly just becomes routine, and you learn how to strike that balance between getting the kids to like you and respect you.

Urban kids would probably be hell though. I mean, some would essentially be just as receptive as suburban kids, but you'd also have a lot more kids who don't want to be there, and don't mind letting you know.

3 months of paid vacation isn't anything to scoff at either. A pay-raise incentive would be great in cities, but again, the benefits of having 3 months vacation is very valuable. I'd rather make 30k and have 3 months to myself than make 70 and have to work 5 days a week, every week.

Agent 008
02-05-2009, 09:13 PM
I have (10+, not 20+, but still...). Suburban kids and teenagers aren't that hard to handle...after a few weeks it mostly just becomes routine, and you learn how to strike that balance between getting the kids to like you and respect you.

Urban kids would probably be hell though. I mean, some would essentially be just as receptive as suburban kids, but you'd also have a lot more kids who don't want to be there, and don't mind letting you know.

3 months of paid vacation isn't anything to scoff at, so...I don't think all teachers need a pay-raise. A pay-raise incentive would be great in cities, but again, the benefits of having 3 months vacation is very valuable. I'd rather make 30k and have 3 months to myself than make 70 and have to work 5 days a week, every week.

How much do school teachers make in the US, anyway?

BiggLJ
02-05-2009, 11:50 PM
right, but who motivated those people to become the successful individuals that they are now? you would be quite foolish if you did not acknowledge the role of teachers in these peoples success.

and also, have you ever tried to teach a room of 20+ mouthy suburban teenagers? yeah try that out then get back to me on how easy it was.

They were motivated by money, plain and simple. Parents probably had an impact as well. The foolish are the ones who believe that Hollywood bullshit about teachers having such a huge impact on their student's lives. For most high school students, that just isn't the case.

I have no desire to be a teacher, so no I haven't done it before. However it's pretty easy to figure out that teachers have a MUCH easier job than doctors or engineers. I look at it this way: almost anyone can teach some info out of a text book (which is what most classes come down to). Not a lot of people can perform brain surgery.

Dog
02-06-2009, 12:00 AM
How much do school teachers make in the US, anyway?

According to google it ranges from about 35k to 50k on average. Cops make around 40k as their starting salary, which goes up toward ~60k after a few years. They have to work year-round and have a much more dangerous job.

Agent 008
02-06-2009, 12:18 AM
According to google it ranges from about 35k to 50k on average. Cops make around 40k as their starting salary, which goes up toward ~60k after a few years. They have to work year-round and have a much more dangerous job.

Not bad. Enough to live a decent life.

I eat kittens
04-24-2011, 07:47 PM
Grades should be abolished. The fact that a person's future is put at risk by their performance of school work when they are aged 14-18 is wrong. Also, teachers should be given better pay. Many qualified men and women who could go into teaching chose not to because of the shitty pay. Another thing, students in high school should be able to chose classes that focus on the career their heading for. Students wishing to become engineers shouldn't be stressed over a difficult English class that doesn't interest them.

Trix Are For Kids
04-25-2011, 03:46 AM
I don't think grades should be abolished, but them having any significance should. People should be allowed to do what they want, and grades should be for the student to know what they are good at. Everybody knows grades don't efficiently show knowledge anyway. It's not based on knowledge, it's based on what others expect from you. So what if I don't do homework? Should my future really be affected by that?