Counterfeiting coins

[eclipse]

I’ve recently become interested in counterfeiting coins. The coins I want to counterfeit are roughly 90% copper with some nickel and aluminum thrown in. Here are a bunch of questions in no particular order.

What sort of security features are found on standard coin?

Could high quality counterfeits be passed through vending machines?

What sort of material should I use to make an accurate and efficient mold?

What is a good way to heat the metal so that it may be shaped?

How would I go about making a copper nickel and aluminum mixture?

Could a metal other then copper be substituted (perhaps with a lower melting point and cost) and then plated with the copper?

Do I even need to heat the metal or could I simply make a mold out of extremely strong metal and then shape the copper by applying enough pressure?

That’s enough for now. I greatly appreciate any help.

Obviously this is all hypothetical and I have no intent to use said information.

[Mantikore]

first off, it might not be worth the expense. remember, were talking in the cents here.

but if you were going to do it, you could try just coating the coin in a really soft, cheap metal (like lead) then, stamping it. it would be easier than copper

[eclipse]

Some countries have coins worth over a dollar. Also the ease of laundering makes it very profitable if one were able to produce said coins in any sort of quantity.

[Vispilio]

I am intrigued by this thread. What's to stop someone from using a really cheap metal like iron and making a bunch of Sacagawea dollar coins or something like that?

[nostrumfiend]

I am intrigued by this thread. What's to stop someone from using a really cheap metal like iron and making a bunch of Sacagawea dollar coins or something like that?

I don't think machines take those for the most part. Also, people will think it's fishy when you pay in 20 1$ coins.

[.it]

there was a man who was arrested after counterfeiting millions of dollars worth of coins. He didn't counterfeit fucking quarters and dollar coins. He made replica's of expensive coins, coins worth thousands of dollars. His coins looked like exactly like the originals, that's why he was never caught for years, don't remember what got him caught though.

I think this would be a lot more worth it. simply make high value coins, maybe even start small with old pennies worth like 10 bucks, and sell hundreds of these. and work your way when you getting better machines and materials. you could easily make coins worth hundreds of dollars. i mean, wtf are you going to do with a bunch of fake quarters, stock your house with unlimited vending machine food?:hammer1:

[samguy700]

i would make a press type thing like a hole punch but have a heated cast aswell you can buy coins that are like 10 to the £1 which look like £1 except the design is wrong so a heated cast plus a press may be enough to put a new design onto it but the best part is its only pound coins so there is almost no suspicion and as 10% of pound coins in circulation are fake anyway according to the bank of england if you are cought with a few it wont matter just dont leave your machines in your shed and i would advise some sort of ageing process like putting them in muddy water and shaking them about in a box full of rough pebbles so it looks old and warn so any defects of the design are masked

[samguy700]

there was a man who was arrested after counterfeiting millions of dollars worth of coins. He didn't counterfeit fucking quarters and dollar coins. He made replica's of expensive coins, coins worth thousands of dollars. His coins looked like exactly like the originals, that's why he was never caught for years, don't remember what got him caught though.

I think this would be a lot more worth it. simply make high value coins, maybe even start small with old pennies worth like 10 bucks, and sell hundreds of these. and work your way when you getting better machines and materials. you could easily make coins worth hundreds of dollars. i mean, wtf are you going to do with a bunch of fake quarters, stock your house with unlimited vending machine food?:hammer1:


high value coins can be traced back to you and coins can be changed

[Phantasmal_fiend]

electronic pokie machines are a gold mine have a gamble and spend a short amount of time on a machine try to get it over $200 to force a payout ticket so you get paid in notes, either that or collect and half your money will be your counterfits back and the other half will be the real coins that are constantly topped up with, then jump to another machine and repeat, don't go into the bar again and don't stay long shit hits the fan when the first conterfit is seen, which can be either at the end of the night or when a fat indian prick trys to collect after only putting in $10....

[Valkyr]

Ok it depends upon what country your in. This would probably not work in America But if you live in Australia our government made one fatal flaw when desighning our coin. They made The one dollar larger than the 2 dollar. Seeing as the one and 2 dollar are made of the same metal and are only slightly different thicknesses with a basic press you could be knocking off 2000 2$ coins a day. If youre pressing them out of 1 dollar coins thats 100% profit. Oh and also if you live in australia you will find that 2 5c Pieces stuck together is the exact size as a 2 dollar coin (this only works on older vending machines).

Note: The knocked off 2 dollar coins would not work in a vending machine but no one outside the banks could detect them unless the were looking for them.

[totse]

Just make some obama coins and sell them to black folk it's 100% legal.

[eclipse]

Ok so their seems to be some confusion. I am not interested in forging expensive rare coins. I figure the people who buy those things have a greater knowledge of coins then I do and so exchanging them would be very risky. I also don’t really care about ways to pass fake coins. Haven’t you ever walked into a gas station and exchanged your coins for note simply to not carry around all that extra weight. I do this on a daily basis already as I hate carrying around coins. Who the fuck is gonna inspect coins which is the beauty of forging em.

Valkyr:

I really like your idea of taking coins of a low value and making a higher value coin of similar appearance. In your example of the Australian coins what would be required in a “press” to alter the coins. I’m thinking you’d need either some sort of furnace to melt the metal of the low value coins to the point where you could alter them or some sort of vice that could apply enough pressure to warp the metal into shape.

Thoughts?

[Valkyr]

Eclipse:

Hmmm the press would require some specialist knowledge which i do not have. All i can say is when you are stamping it i imagine you would have to run the coin through on both sides which would be a problem if there were any grooves on the side. Though im sure someone here has a better idea then me. The only way i can think of is to make a mould of some kind (out of clay ) and then use a fire (if you can get it to 400 degrees celcius you would be able to melt the coins) and do it that way. I expect these would pass for the real thing (perhaps even in a vending machine)
Also how do you plan to launder these because you can bet that once a whole lot of dodgy coins pops up the police will get involved. Perhaps you could forge old coins and sell them online to collectors. (Yes i know you dont want to but with some ash and dirt and a wire brush and cleaning acid you can wear them enough to fool a buyer)

What you have to understand about australian money is that there is NO WAY to forge the notes. due to the material (plastic sheet) that they are made of and their durability ( you cannot tear a note without first cutting it with scizzors and you can press a hot iron to it and it is still legible) so the only way to make money is to make coins and then trade them in for notes here.In the states a set of note plates is upwards of 100 000 grand so you cant forge enough money to make it profitable.

Edit : I checked it out on ebay and old coins can sell for like $300 each.

[sexualjesus]

hmmm, biggest problem i can see is how on earth are you going to make the stamp press, its like saying youll fly to the moon but ignoring the fact that youll need a spaceship. well maybe not.

a while back i had an idea to start forging fake warhammer plastic figurines (dont ask) i had an idea that concrete would do well under heat and i could just melt plastic into it, didnt pan out so well because i couldnt get the original figurines out without destroying the concrete mould. any metal you use as the press will melt as well unless you use some speciality metal or concrete but the coins will look like shit anyway you look at it, making copper coins the same shape as dollar coins would be good to use on vending machines i guess.

[sexualjesus]

an idea this thread has sparked is to buy fake coins and sell them on ebay, kind of like the wow scam only way cooler and more grown up, collectors have no souls anyway but where would you get replica coins.

what about replica post stamps, lol

[sexualjesus]

now i ran off and did a little research, in australia we have a coin thats worth a lot more then face value not because its old but our government is retarted and put more silver into them then there worth.

so now these 20 year old coins are going for 20 bucks each because there 80% silver, its the same size as our 50 cent coin and hell, even both sides look the same except for the year it says it was made in. same colour only instead of having 12 flat edges its round.

im slowly realising the futility of it, you cant carve off the edges and make it round and the big note is even if they get the fake coin we all know what there using it for and thats to melt down for the silver, when they open them up theyll file a dispute with paypal and all my cash will be sucked back out...

all the big rig replica's have copy printed on the tail of them making them completely useless unless you file the copy off and even then people will be able to tell.

fuck you op you had me thinking of a potentially good idea, im going to go back to stealing blue ray players...

[QuEsTiOn AuThOrItY]

Well I imagine that putting several thousand fake quarters in a coinstar machine, or sticking them in rolls, would net you a tidy profit.

Of course you wouldn't do more than 100$ at each machine....

[Cork]

how about just making slugs and putting them in vending machines everywhere, pressing coin return, grab the quarters and roll them so you can get some paper out of it?

This has the added bonus of fucking over those assholes who charge $2.25 for a bag of potato chips :mad:

[FireStarter]

Its not as easy as you think... Its all about getting the exact weight and size of the original coin. Do that, and it might work out. That said, vending machine and coin sorting machine companies are well aware that people will try to trick the machines with slugs, and they have become very sophisticated.

Edit: Here is a bit of info I found on how machines detect coins

In modern coin acceptors, a magnetic field is generated by sensors and
the coin passes through this field. The presence of the metal coin
causes changes in the magnetic field which are detected by the sensors
and converted into several readings (perhaps 10 each time a coin goes
through).

The accuracy of the coin acceptor then depends on how these readings
are used. In simpler coin acceptors there may be lower and upper
limits, for each reading, for each type of coin.

Take a particular type of coin - let's call it coin A. For coin A, the
acceptor will have upper and lower limits for all of the (say 10)
readings. When a coin comes in, the 10 readings are found. If each
reading falls within the allowed range for coin A, the coin will be
accepted as coin A. The process carries on for each different type of
coin the acceptor is programmed to recognise. If the coin does not
"look like" any of the coins it is programmed to recognise, the coin
is rejected.

More sophisticated coin acceptors use advanced statistical techniques
to define "what a coin is", based on the readings. These statistical
methods can more accurately "describe" what a coin actually is.

The acceptors are programmed by passing lots of coins through lots of
coin acceptors, averaging out all the readings and examining the data
to determine the best lower and upper limits for each coin. The limits
are set to accept as many real coins as possible, but accept as few
fake coins as possible.

[Red Roundup]

What sort of material should I use to make an accurate and efficient mold?

Coins and high quality counterfeits are not made in molds.


What is a good way to heat the metal so that it may be shaped?

A fire?
Could a metal other then copper be substituted (perhaps with a lower melting point and cost) and then plated with the copper?

Of course. Look into electroplating.

Do I even need to heat the metal or could I simply make a mold out of extremely strong metal and then shape the copper by applying enough pressure?

Of course, that's exactly what the mints do. Although that's not called "moulding." All real coins are made with a press.

[Djaqaver]

What sort of material should I use to make an accurate and efficient mold?


Try Mud. You are a MudFarmer so you should have no trouble finding some spare mud.

[BlackopsNinja]

LOL Y U NECROBUMP? Counterfeiting coins is the dumbest idea I've ever heard of. The time effort and energy put into it HEAVILY outweighs any financial gain. God pull your head OUT!