GloFish

[Vamp]

I don't know how well-known these fish are, so before I get down to it, let me explain.

GloFish are a genetically modified zebrafish (Danio rerio) in which the embryos are injected with a gene called green fluorescent protein (GFP), which was originally taken from jellyfish. The gene integrates into the zebrafish's genome, and causes it to glow under ordinary lighting, and even more vibrantly under black UV lights.

The purpose of this experiment was to engineer a fish that would fluoresce in polluted waters, and the first step was to get the fish to glow all the time, apparently. They've been around for about ten years, but have recently begun being sold as pets.

Here are some photos of the GloFish.

http://www.glofish.com/images/glofish_035_std.jpghttp://www.glofish.com/images/glofish_005_std.jpghttp://www.glofish.com/images/glofish_023_std.jpg

They come in three different colours, as you can see. The colours are called Electric Green, Starfire Red, and Sunburst Orange.

Now, the purpose of this thread- I'd like to ask you group of animal lovers a question. What do you think about the ethics involved? Is it wrong to use scientifically altered, genetically modified fish as pets? Was it wrong to develop them in the first place?

[slm33d]

I don't really see anything ethically wrong with this. Its no adding extra limbs , more meat capability all that's there doing is changing a few colours to try create a new species. IMO I think their AWESOME.

[dedraic]

They're illegal where I live. :mad:

I fucking love Danio's, ones that glow in the dark would just suit my psychedelic mindstate better.

[Vamp]

I don't really see anything ethically wrong with this. Its no adding extra limbs , more meat capability all that's there doing is changing a few colours to try create a new species. IMO I think their AWESOME.

That was pretty much my thought on the situation- The fish aren't bothered by it at all, from what anyone can tell. I've got six of them in my freshwater tank now, I've been thinking about putting together a whole tank of just the Glowies.

They're illegal where I live. :mad:

I fucking love Danio's, ones that glow in the dark would just suit my psychedelic mindstate better.

That's suckish! :(

Here's what you do... Go stab a jellyfish with a needle, hope you get the right part, and inject a Danio embryo with it.

Okay I'm kidding, hopefully they'll legalise them for you soon. :(

[T.K. Baha]

I havent seen those. I bought some painted glass fish once, the kind they inject with dye so they are colorful but they died a week after I got them. I wouldnt mind having some Glofish though as it doesent hurt the fish but I would rather just get something more natural looking.

[Hyper-dimension]

I'm gonna go ahead and say I don't like them, nor do I agree with their exsistence. Now, considering that these fish are genetically modified for the color effect(and therefore able to pass the coloring to successive generations), I think it is more acceptable(kind of) than say, painted or tatooed fish(which never live long after the procedure). And, I suppose it would be more appropriate to classify them with other genetic hybrids such as blood parrot cichlids, as opposed to painted fish.

They would look okay with clown puke:

http://www.pets-warehouse.com/pic-a/AES20509.jpg

I guess what I'm trying to say is they're ugly. :)

[Hyper-dimension]

I havent seen those. I bought some painted glass fish once, the kind they inject with dye so they are colorful but they died a week after I got them. I wouldnt mind having some Glofish though as it doesent hurt the fish but I would rather just get something more natural looking.

Never, never, never buy 'painted' or 'tatooed' fish. The coloring process slowly poisons them, and they rarely last more than a month.

I believe I've only ever seen glass fish, parrot cichlids, and zebra danios(painted zebra danios would be distict from glofish, in that glofish coloring is a genetic modification) that have been painted.

If people stop buying them, shops will stop selling them, and the fish will no longer be painted. In fact, I won't buy any fish from a shop that sells them. :)

[Vamp]

I havent seen those. I bought some painted glass fish once, the kind they inject with dye so they are colorful but they died a week after I got them. I wouldnt mind having some Glofish though as it doesent hurt the fish but I would rather just get something more natural looking.

As Friendo said, dyed and tattooed fish don't tend to live long. Granted, they're pretty cool looking, but it's a painful process and really not worth it. I generally prefer natural looking animals as well, but I'm kind of a fanatic for all things glowy and pretty, and I just love these fish.

I'm gonna go ahead and say I don't like them, nor do I agree with their exsistence. Now, considering that these fish are genetically modified for the color effect(and therefore able to pass the coloring to successive generations), I think it is more acceptable(kind of) than say, painted or tatooed fish(which never live long after the procedure). And, I suppose it would be more appropriate to classify them with other genetic hybrids such as blood parrot cichlids, as opposed to painted fish.

They would look okay with clown puke:

http://www.pets-warehouse.com/pic-a/AES20509.jpg

I guess what I'm trying to say is they're ugly. :)

Awwwe, but they glow! Things that glow aren't ugly! Nahh, thanks for your opinion.

What do you think about their being used for research, and not as pets, though?

[Lord Valuemart]

As Friendo said, dyed and tattooed fish don't tend to live long. Granted, they're pretty cool looking, but it's a painful process and really not worth it. I generally prefer natural looking animals as well, but I'm kind of a fanatic for all things glowy and pretty, and I just love these fish.

Me too, I'm a fan of bright colors :) I bought a new pair of sneakers the other day, and I can see them in the dark :) I love them

[Hyper-dimension]

As Friendo said, dyed and tattooed fish don't tend to live long. Granted, they're pretty cool looking, but it's a painful process and really not worth it. I generally prefer natural looking animals as well, but I'm kind of a fanatic for all things glowy and pretty, and I just love these fish.



Awwwe, but they glow! Things that glow aren't ugly! Nahh, thanks for your opinion.

What do you think about their being used for research, and not as pets, though?

I'm usually unopposed to scientific endeavors, as long as there is a meaningful reason for such research. But, I'm not sure I can agree with this.

...bred to help detect polluted water...

I can't see any practical reason for this, at least from an ecological view point. I don't think coloredy fish are an adequate substitute for a chemistry lab. A more worthwhile endeavor would be one that looks for efficient means of removing said pollution.

I also don't think such a fish should be released into the wild under any circumstances, if that was the intent of the researchers.

[Vamp]

Me too, I'm a fan of bright colors :) I bought a new pair of sneakers the other day, and I can see them in the dark :) I love them

Yes! I've got really tacky white platform boots with LED lights up the lacing that are pretty epic.

Now I'm gonna stop derailing my own thread. :)

I'm usually unopposed to scientific endeavors, as long as there is a meaningful reason for such research. But, I'm not sure I can agree with this.

I can't see any practical reason for this, at least from an ecological view point. I don't think coloredy fish are an adequate substitute for a chemistry lab. A more worthwhile endeavor would be one that looks for efficient means of removing said pollution.

I also don't think such a fish should be released into the wild under any circumstances, if that was the intent of the researchers.

That was the intent. They're trying to engineer fish that glow only under the effects of toxins and pollutants, to help more easily identify polluted areas. Though, you bring up an excellent point in that it would be more cost efficient and moral to come up with more efficient ways of reducing the pollution. I'm a bit ashamed to admit I hadn't really considered that, though I don't really think having ecologically safe pollutant detection systems is a bad thing. Then again, it may be another Melaleuca (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melaleuca) incident, like introduction of many non-indigenous species.

[Hyper-dimension]

Yes! I've got really tacky white platform boots with LED lights up the lacing that are pretty epic.

Now I'm gonna stop derailing my own thread. :)



That was the intent. They're trying to engineer fish that glow only under the effects of toxins and pollutants, to help more easily identify polluted areas. Though, you bring up an excellent point in that it would be more cost efficient and moral to come up with more efficient ways of reducing the pollution. I'm a bit ashamed to admit I hadn't really considered that, though I don't really think having ecologically safe pollutant detection systems is a bad thing. Then again, it may be another Melaleuca (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melaleuca) incident, like introduction of many non-indigenous species.

Something I forgot to mention in my post:

Another research project(with good intentions) that comes to mind: Africanized honey bees. :(

But they just wanted a bee that could live in the South American jungle. Well it could live in the jungle. And the desert.

[Vamp]

Something I forgot to mention in my post:

Another research project(with good intentions) that comes to mind: Africanized honey bees. :(

But they just wanted a bee that could live in the South American jungle. Well it could live in the jungle. And the desert.

And the forest, in town, the mountains... Yikes.

This is true, we better just keep them all as pets. :thumbsup:

:p You see what I did there?

[slm33d]

Friendo I've read what you wrote I but ireally disagree with it. Were dogs not bred to be domestic ? So why can't we colour fish? If they breed and the next gen are coloured are you against them?.

[reallystupidstuff]

A roommate of mine a couple years back had some of these guys with very alien looking plants and various other bizarre fish with black substrate and an outrspace backdrop. It was badass.

I don't see a damn thing wrong with the fish existing. Hell it could be pretty good to know that water is polluted just on sight and know not to swim in it and hopefully people who see it can take action and smash the corporation responsible for polluting it! :mad:

[Vamp]

A roommate of mine a couple years back had some of these guys with very alien looking plants and various other bizarre fish with black substrate and an outrspace backdrop. It was badass.

I don't see a damn thing wrong with the fish existing. Hell it could be pretty good to know that water is polluted just on sight and know not to swim in it and hopefully people who see it can take action and smash the corporation responsible for polluting it! :mad:

Hahaha, I like the way you think. :thumbsup:

That's pretty much what my setup looks like now, except the other fish. I've just got the Glo's in there, and a blacklight set up at the end of the tank so they all glow like made. It's really killer.

[Hyper-dimension]

Friendo I've read what you wrote I but ireally disagree with it. Were dogs not bred to be domestic ? So why can't we colour fish? If they breed and the next gen are coloured are you against them?.

You're comparing an animal that has been domesticated for thousands of years to one that has been domesticated for ~100 years.

Plus, adequate testing has obviously not been done to ensure there are no ill-effects. They are unknown.

[SHARP]

What do you think about the ethics involved?

I don't have a problem with it until some sort of evidence pops up, that shows they'll develop a condition that decreases their life quality. I have a huge problem with people breeding animals that are bred to have certain characteristics some people find attractive - like cats and dogs that looks like they've run full speed nose first into a wall every day for the first year of their life, and thus develops breathing problems. And it doesn't matter if they've been genetically designed that way, or if it's the result of selective breeding.

Ethically speaking.

Is it wrong to use scientifically altered, genetically modified fish as pets?

Yes, most certainly, because at some point some moron will set them free in a lake, stream, or where ever they might survive and reproduce, and that could mean disaster for the native species, as already mentioned.
In some lakes here in DK, we have a problem with Red Eared Sliders, and I know of a Brachypelma vagans (Bird Eating Spider) colony in Florida, if it were up to me, both species should be wiped away from the locations where they don't belong.
Now, if a species expands its range of distribution naturally, it's a whole other can of worms...

Was it wrong to develop them in the first place?

Not necessarily, not the act in and of itself, but to do it with the intentions of releasing them into the wild is so mindnumbingly stupid I'd love to beat the living shit out of whoever inbred imbecile came up with the idea in the first place, as well as the ones who should've stopped him before we got to this point.

But they still look neat though, in their own abominational way.:)

Yeah, I totally made up that word, "Frankenstein's monsteresque" would be too long.

[reallystupidstuff]

Sharp, I don't believe your spiders smiley is native to zoklet. Since he is your avatar it leads me to think that maybe you are responsible for introducing it! Why not give endangered smilies that are native to zoklet a chance? :rainbow_note: :pepsi: :smilie2: :1eye: :boxer: :red_indian: :taz: are all native to zoklet but rarely ever seen! Save the Smilies!!

[dedraic]

Yes, most certainly, because at some point some moron will set them free in a lake, stream, or where ever they might survive and reproduce, and that could mean disaster for the native species, as already mentioned.
In some lakes here in DK, we have a problem with Red Eared Sliders, and I know of a Brachypelma vagans (Bird Eating Spider) colony in Florida, if it were up to me, both species should be wiped away from the locations where they don't belong.

There's a couple of colonies of Jackson's chameleons in California, and some fucking idiot aquarium owner introduced piranha to a lake in the southern part of the state. I always found the latter kind of idiotic, but the former could lead to a free Jackson chameleon if one was determined to crawl over the areas they've been introduced...

I really can't see Glofish being able to breed though, zebra danio are tiny fish and being lit up at night would likely lead to their deaths rapidly in most freshwater areas.

Then again, I find genetic tampering fascinating. The long term implications of something does need to be studied before it's released however.

[SHARP]

Sharp, I don't believe your spiders smiley is native to zoklet. Since he is your avatar it leads me to think that maybe you are responsible for introducing it! Why not give endangered smilies that are native to zoklet a chance? :rainbow_note: :pepsi: :smilie2: :1eye: :boxer: :red_indian: :taz: are all native to zoklet but rarely ever seen! Save the Smilies!!

Originally it was a native smiley, but Fish (or Zok, can't remember which) cut down the number of smilies shortly after Totse went down and everyone migrated here, luckily I managed to save this one last specimen as I hate it when yet another species disappears off the face of the site.

And if you believe that part about the smiley being a native, I've got a Statue of Liberty, an Eiffel Tower, a Giza Pyramid, and a Golden Gate Bridge to sell you as well.:)

[SHARP]

There's a couple of colonies of Jackson's chameleons in California, and some fucking idiot aquarium owner introduced piranha to a lake in the southern part of the state. I always found the latter kind of idiotic, but the former could lead to a free Jackson chameleon if one was determined to crawl over the areas they've been introduced...

I'd be out there in a flash.

I really can't see Glofish being able to breed though, zebra danio are tiny fish and being lit up at night would likely lead to their deaths rapidly in most freshwater areas.

Good point dedraic, but as I know jack shit about the particular fish in question, I just went with a worst case scenario.:)

Then again, I find genetic tampering fascinating. The long term implications of something does need to be studied before it's released however.

Yup, but I'd be extremely cautious about releasing anything that wasn't a naturally occurring species, into the wild.
"Checking for pollution" isn't a valid reason in my opinion, as a laboratory can do that as well with no risk to the lab techies.
A different case though, is when a couple of my countrymen developed a plant that would sprout red leaves if the plant grew near a high explosive; the idea was to use it to map minefields for demining in Africa as the continent is heavily plagued by the results of countless wars, resulting in some of the hunger problems we see today.
The project ended when a consultant they'd hired to help out, decided to screw up the project for reasons still unclear, personally I think he was paid off by some landmine manufacturer.

But I digress.

That particular plant, should've been growing all over Africa by now.

[Method of Madness]

I see very good bait possibilities

[dedraic]

I'd be out there in a flash.

It's only about an hour's drive from here. :D I'm thinking about taking a trip out there sometime soon.


"Checking for pollution" isn't a valid reason in my opinion, as a laboratory can do that as well with no risk to the lab techies.


I'd agree with that. However, glowing aquarium fish are an interesting endeavor. I really have no problems with tampering at all, provided the animals/plants are kept within a controlled environment(i.e.an aquarium, lab or greenhouse) and studied extensively.


That particular plant, should've been growing all over Africa by now.

Now THAT is an interesting endeavor. Is it possible to find the studies done to create the plants?

[SHARP]

It's only about an hour's drive from here. :D I'm thinking about taking a trip out there sometime soon.

That sounds like a superb idea!

Now THAT is an interesting endeavor. Is it possible to find the studies done to create the plants?

I'm fairly certain they've kept their records, I'll take a look around, hold on.

EDIT: Here's the company website: http://www.aresa.dk/aresa_home_english2.html

It looks like they went ahead with the Africa project as planned, but I remember seeing on the telly that the project was terminated by that fucking fuck motherfucker of a fucking fuck.
Hmm, maybe this is Africa project #2...
One can always hope...

EDIT 2: Shit, looks like the company has ceased to operate, it says on the site (in Danish) that if they can't raise the funding to keep researching, the company will close by New Year, that was posted Dec 16 '08...:(

[Vamp]

SHARP, your opinion is very rational as always. I have to agree that the original project really wasn't well thought out or ecologically sound.

On the other hand, as pets (and as you said, unless it comes out that there are negative effects on the fish) they're great little guys.

[SHARP]

^^No harm done.:)

[Hyper-dimension]

There's a couple of colonies of Jackson's chameleons in California, and some fucking idiot aquarium owner introduced piranha to a lake in the southern part of the state. I always found the latter kind of idiotic, but the former could lead to a free Jackson chameleon if one was determined to crawl over the areas they've been introduced...

I really can't see Glofish being able to breed though, zebra danio are tiny fish and being lit up at night would likely lead to their deaths rapidly in most freshwater areas.

Then again, I find genetic tampering fascinating. The long term implications of something does need to be studied before it's released however.

Jackson's chameleons are also taking over Hawaii.

Let's not forget the cane toad epidemic in Australia. They were released with good intentions.

Or, the snakehead problem in the U.S.

[SHARP]

^^...Or rabbits, rats, and pigs in AUS...

[dedraic]

Or, the snakehead problem in the U.S.

Those have to be one of the nastiest fish on the planet. Kind of cool looking though. Until the bastard gets out of the aquarium and eats your cat or something.

[Alamo]

^^Harpoon Gatling gun.... non barbed tips though of course! "ANIMAL SAFE!!!"

As for the genetics side of testing ect yes, extreme testing to make sure no ill effects come out of it. As for the fish, does it know its even different? I mean no other fish is like, hey ted your really red/glowing you okay?

As for the fish,"taken from the FAQ on the glofish (http://www.glofish.com/faq.asp#TheScienceofGloFish) site"
Do you have to add a fluorescence gene to every fish before it hatches?
No. Today's GloFish® fluorescent fish are bred from the offspring of fluorescent zebrafish that were originally developed several years ago. Each new GloFish® fluorescent fish inherits its unique color directly from its parents, maintains the color throughout its life, and passes the color along to its offspring

At least from what they are saying the fish are completely fine and all I can see is lets get some glowing snakeheads... you never know.