Republican Response to the Obama Health Care Plan

[supperrfreek]

http://spectator.org/archives/2009/05/20/the-republican-health-care-alt
We've all heard about the health care issue. We've heard about Obama's proposition to transition to a universal system (slowly though). Now here's the Republican response.
It relies on freedom to choose the health care you want, as opposed to paying for crappy service. The choice would be assisted by statewide or regionwide healthcare markets offering a basic policy similar to what congressmen get. And much more (kinda skimmed the article).

[Vargus]

Foremost, don't link to a conserva-shill site when you intend to be taken seriously.

The bill would assure essential health coverage and health care to every U.S. citizen, without increased federal spending and taxes, and without the federal government taking over your health care. For precisely those reasons, today's left wing Democrats will not support it.

The goal was never to take over private enterprises. Obama's plan was to make a public insurance agency, similar to what we already have available for government employees. (It's not really that great anyway.)

The key to the bill is that it shifts the tax benefits for employer provided health insurance from corporations to all workers. As a result, every citizen not retired on Medicare will get a refundable tax credit of $2,300 per year for individual health insurance or $5,700 per year for family coverage. For workers who don't have insurance now or who pay for their own insurance, that is thousands of dollars a year they don't have today to help pay for health insurance. Workers with employer-provided coverage can keep that or use these credits to purchase their own preferred insurance instead.

Which is the exact same thing that McCain was talking about during the elections. Five grand is a drop in the bucket.

I think that is pretty much the bulk of the argument: ad verbatim of McCain's campaign promises. This solution doesn't even acknowledge the problem with medical insurance: there is not enough producers to meet the demand. Why is medical insurance so fucking expensive? It does address price gouging after someone is insured and then gets sick, but it doesn't say anything about those with prior medical disorders like heart disease, diabetes, et al.

Each state would also set up an uninsurable risk pool, ensuring that a coverage option is available even to the sickest consumers in their state. Those without coverage who suffer costly and serious illnesses could always obtain coverage from the pool. They would be charged what they can reasonably pay based on their incomes, with remaining costs covered by state payments into the pool. States could choose to use some of their federal Medicaid funds for such pools, which already operate successfully in many states.

I like this idea, but it's not going to fly with conservative voters since it is pretty much the same as welfare.

Since 2005, HSA coverage has increased 6 fold, growing at a rate of over 30% a year. With an HSA, the worker gets health insurance covering expenses over a high deductible chosen by the worker, usually $2,000 - $5,000. The enormous savings from such a high deductible policy is then kept in the HSA account, where it earns interest tax free. Funds in the account can then be used to pay for health expenses below the deductible, again tax free. The savings are frequently enough to cover almost the entire deductible, and would certainly do so by the second year of such coverage. Money left in the account at the end of the year rolls over to the next year, and can accumulate to substantial amounts over time. The worker can withdraw remaining funds for any personal use in retirement.

This sounds a lot like the social security privatization thing that Bush wanted to get into. Yea, it works great on paper, but we would have been fucked had we gotten into it because of the market crash.

The bill would also finance specific state programs to end lawsuit abuses and excessive malpractice costs. Each state's health commissioner could appoint an expert panel of three medical and three legal experts to recommend a quick, low cost resolution for each case. States could also establish specialized, expert health courts.

I doubt highly that this is going to bring down insurance premiums, although it is some step in the general right direction.

[supperrfreek]

conserva-shill site
As if CNN, MSNBC, CBS, and the New York Times are any different? It's just the shoe on the other foot. Aside from that, this was the first place I saw it.

Obama's plan was to make a public insurance agency, similar to what we already have available for government employees. (It's not really that great anyway.)
I don't know, I've heard it's comprehensive. The care to be put on the exchange will be the same in scope to what members of congress get.
Five grand is a drop in the bucket.

Perhaps if you have an HMO, yes it is. But if you're stashing the money in an HSA (like a health care IRA), as the plan allows, you'll have a lot more in case something goes wrong. You can deposit almost $6000 a year into an HSA. And on average a trip to the doctor doesn't cost $6000 unless you are terminally ill, which you can be insured for (insurance for diseases/injuries that could keep you from working is really all that is necessary when comparing "health care" policies).
those with prior medical disorders like heart disease, diabetes, et al.
Let me clarify:
Insurance offered on the state Exchanges would have to be open to everyone, regardless of age or health condition. A non-profit, independent board in each state would provide reinsurance risk adjustments among insurers, shifting funds from insurers with healthier patients to those with sicker patients. This would provide incentives and the essential financing for insurers to cover the sickest patients as well as the healthiest. No insurance company, whether offering coverage through an Exchange or not, would be allowed to cancel coverage or charge discriminatory premiums for a covered consumer after he became sick or suffered deteriorated health.
it is pretty much the same as welfare.

It's more like medicaid, in fact medicaid can be used to pay for it:To address this, in addition to the tax credits for health insurance, the bill would enable low income consumers to choose to receive additional funds from Medicaid to help pay for private insurance coverage, like a health insurance voucher. This would enable the poor on Medicaid to receive the same private coverage and care on the same terms as everyone else. Besides everyone is paying into it through what they're buying, and because patients are sandwiched together over different companies the healthy pay for the sick. It's also like insurance, people that don't need it don't get it, but pay for it just in case. It's not like welfare where people that don't pay anything still receive: people still pay what they can.

Overall I'm just happy they have a plan. It seems to be decent compared to a single payer system where there can be delays while bureaucrats figure out what people need as their well being is under attack.

[Vargus]

As if CNN, MSNBC, CBS, and the New York Times are any different?

Actually, yes. The story they present wouldn't get to be run through a liberal-ese filter before it gets posted.

[Fightgar]

I've gotten pissed over Obama's health care plans too much.

So I'll leave it at this:

If liberals want to pay for poor people's health care, that's great.

Just don't make me do it.

[the phantom stranger]

The majority of society already pay for the rich people's health care. But coming up with a system that covers them and doesn't include super profits for big pharma and big medical like the current system does, just wouldn't work. Right? After all, that would be "too bureaucratic". Nevermind that over 30% of healthcare costs under the current system go to cover bureaucratic overhead.

[Angry Blue Bird of Death]

Actually, yes. The story they present wouldn't get to be run through a liberal-ese filter before it gets posted.

Are you retarded or just stupid? MSNBC and NY Times are both extremely biased Liberal media.

It's not like it matters anyway. Mainstream media is so censored down and full of propaganda which you have to filter out, that it's not really worth watching.

[Vargus]

Are you retarded or just stupid? MSNBC and NY Times are both extremely biased Liberal media.

It's not like it matters anyway. Mainstream media is so censored down and full of propaganda which you have to filter out, that it's not really worth watching.

i gets all mah nooz frum limbaw and fawks. dont give me none o dat der librul meediuhh.

[Spam Man Sam]

Already the American healthcare system is flawed because of the bureaucratic overhead. Largely this is because of your sue-happy society. The doctors need a way to protect themselves, and they do this by having a legal team at the ready with their practice.

And there is a problem with too much freedom in healthcare. When given the choice people tend to lean towards nostrums or other questionable remedies to cure their problems. Because healthcare is so widely available the ability to get surgery, or drugs that are not really needed is a tendency. And don't forget about patent medicines.

Although the majority have been outlawed through the FDA, some have come back under the guise of naturopathic medicine.

[Zip]

So I'll leave it at this:

If liberals want to pay for poor people's health care, that's great.

Just don't make me do it.

Hate to break it to you: you already subsidize "poor people's health care," because in the current system the costs are so high that the uninsured simply don't pay the bill and the debt is eventually written off.

Either the McCain or Obama plans would be a massive improvement. The first is unfortunately no longer feasible since the end of the election, and the second doesn't seem to be much more than rhetoric at this point. I'm still waiting for the administration staff to answer a few simple questions: what is the healthcare reform plan, how are we going to pay for it, and when will it be implemented.

[Shrike]

I've gotten pissed over Obama's health care plans too much.

So I'll leave it at this:

If liberals want to pay for poor people's health care, that's great.

Just don't make me do it.

This is what it comes down to, essentially. Republicans and their supporters are selfish, greedy bastards. Also, they can never, for some reason, never see themselves being in a bad situation like losing their job or their insurance and thus benefiting for the proposals. They think everyone who can't afford insurance needs to work harder.

[Dog]

Obama could give into every last one of the things that Republicans claim to want, and they'd still bitch and whine every second of the day.

[Vargus]

Obama could give into every last one of the things that Republicans claim to want, and they'd still bitch and whine every second of the day.

And they wouldn't vote for it.

[Wooden Pints]

This is what it comes down to, essentially. Republicans and their supporters are selfish, greedy bastards. Also, they can never, for some reason, never see themselves being in a bad situation like losing their job or their insurance and thus benefiting for the proposals. They think everyone who can't afford insurance needs to work harder.
:rolleyes:
Yes, it's so wrong to want your own hard earned money! Never mind the fact that 85 percent of Americans can afford health insurance, it's all the big corporations fault if you can't afford insurance!

[Vargus]

sarcasm

So who's fault is it that %15 can't afford health insurance?

[Wooden Pints]

So who's fault is it that %15 can't afford health insurance?

It's their own fault.

[Vargus]

It's their own fault.

It's my own fault that I can't afford health insurance, much less the cost to see a doctor for a common hormone imbalance?

[Wooden Pints]

It's my own fault that I can't afford health insurance, much less the cost to see a doctor for a common hormone imbalance?

Yes. Go get a job instead of posting on zoklet all day if you can't afford health insurance. Although I can see why you support Obama care. Because your too lazy and think society should have to pay for you and you want to play the blame game.

[crackhead]

Does nobody realize that nationalized health care is an illuminati conspiracy?

[Rocko]

This is what it comes down to, essentially. Republicans and their supporters are selfish, greedy bastards. Also, they can never, for some reason, never see themselves being in a bad situation like losing their job or their insurance and thus benefiting for the proposals. They think everyone who can't afford insurance needs to work harder.

That's really all it is, the Republican party is the party of greed and selfishness. It's the party of rich white people and the dumbass rednecks they've roped in with their "Good principals and Christian values" bullshit. They've never had the lower class's interests at heart, all they care about is pocketing as much money for themselves as possible, and fuck everyone else.

As for the purpose of the thread, it's as vapid as their supposed alternative budget. Cut taxes, privatize Medicare, turn everything over to the market, etc. Nevermind the fact that if Social Security or Medicare actually did rest in the stock market, millions would have been left completely penniless and dying without healthcare after the market crash.

[Vargus]

Nevermind the fact that if Social Security or Medicare actually did rest in the stock market, millions would have been left completely penniless and dying without healthcare after the market crash.

It's almost as if such a thing didn't happen less than a century ago. Ironic that the party whose symbol is the elephant has poor memory.

[Rust]

:rolleyes:
Yes, it's so wrong to want your own hard earned money! Never mind the fact that 85 percent of Americans can afford health insurance, it's all the big corporations fault if you can't afford insurance!

"85 percent of Americans can afford health insurance"? Ha! No. A substantial part, if not the majority, of that 85% (and it's actually lower than that to begin with) couldn't afford health insurance on their own. They either get it through some government program (i.e. Medicare) or are dependent on their employer.

And that's just having insurance. That says nothing of the countless people that have insurance but are denied coverage when they need it, making them de-facto uninsured.