Ethics of Discussing Metaphysics

[Nachismo]

I really enjoy talking to others about metaphysics and making intellectual connections in general. I like working with new ideas others present to me, and their world view often validates my own experiance or brings new questions to light for me to consider.

Sometimes when talking with friends in particular, I wonder the best way to go about communicating certain ideas. I usually try to answer questions as directly as a possible using their paradigm, from how I see these concepts reflected in my own life. Analogy and imagination are usefull tools for explaining these things.

I sometimes wonder how these ideas will influence them. I know once they grasp it mentally, these ideas can be a bit of a double edge sword. I get the feeling that some teachers believe that you become personally responsible for the karma involved with how they use these tools. The conflict is that I know once somebody truely understands the value of the information, they will apply it to enrich themselves, yet they still need to learn it for themselves honestly.

What do you think is the best way to strike a balance between showing somebody what you learned and prodding them gently to take their own initiative?

I wonder how relevent this question is sometimes considering the wealth of information available now in our environment compared to eras when things were more subtle.......

[Reality Apologist]

I'm a big fan of the adversarial method in academia--I want my interlocutor to push me as hard as he can with his objections to my point, and I try to do the same for his points. The important thing to keep in mind, I think, is that the dialectic model is designed to do at one thing: get at the truth. If both sides push their points as hard as possible, the discussion is bound to approach the truth.

[Ambient]

Well Metaphysics is the science of that which transcends all other sciences... how can discussing transcadental nature be unethical?

The only issue i can see here is making sure they do not take your words out of context.

Perhaps you are using metaphysics as an umbrella term for politics/religion/spirituality/science/philosophy ? :confused:

That is the description of the forum, but not of metaphysics/

[ArmsMerchant]

I think Stephen Gaskin addressed OPs issue very well thusly--

No matter how hard you blow your mind, no matter what while light you have seen, no matter what unendurable ecstasies of power and knowledge you have gone through, what it all comes down to is that we are all One, and what are you going to do about it? With infinite patience, moving not so fast as to alienate anyone, carefully and gently let out the news.

[Reality Apologist]

No matter how hard you blow your mind, no matter what while light you have seen, no matter what unendurable ecstasies of power and knowledge you have gone through, what it all comes down to is that we are all One, and what are you going to do about it?


That seems to me to be something that it unequivocally does not "all come down to." The relative autonomy that we all have is part of what makes conscious things interesting.

[ArmsMerchant]

Reality operates at many different levels, which are equivalent to our states of consciousness, as we create our own reality using--among other things--our autonomy.

At the highest level--what Chopra calls the seventh level, which Huxley (in the Perennial Philosophy) calls the "unitive knowledge of the Divine Groiund of Being:"--we are All One.

Much of my life--when I'm not peddling guns and knives or watching videos or reading trashy novels or playing with my cats--is an on-going search for the holy. Having had a little taste of it, I intend to have more, and get closer to it.

[LiquidIce]

I'm a big fan of the adversarial method in academia--I want my interlocutor to push me as hard as he can with his objections to my point, and I try to do the same for his points. The important thing to keep in mind, I think, is that the dialectic model is designed to do at one thing: get at the truth. If both sides push their points as hard as possible, the discussion is bound to approach the truth.

QF-fucking-T. Discuss discuss discuss! Talk, throw the ideas around, brawl with them, pour beer on them, lit them up with christmas tree light. Never allow physical shit to come between you and an opponent - don't attack his person and such stuff, just attack his arguments. I love nothing more than a good discussion because, as Reality Apologist said, it brings us closer to the truth no matter what you do.

[Ambient]

^^

This can be verified linguistically also.

For instance if am to "review" a matter; this means "real view" or to establish a "realized viewpoint".

This is why education is best derived from discussion. The idea is if we communicate constructivly, then a real communionative paradigm of existance will be established; a spiritual platform.

[Reality Apologist]

Reality operates at many different levels, which are equivalent to our states of consciousness, as we create our own reality using--among other things--our autonomy.



I agree that a multilevel theory is the best way to talk about the world, but I think it's a mistake to suppose that the different linguistic Levels of Description correspond to actual ontologically independent things out in the world. When you get right down to it, the only things that really are out there in a robust sense are physical objects--quarks, strings, or something like that--and everything else is just one or another useful way of chopping those physical things up into groups and talking about them. Metaphysics--the study of the ontologically independent properties of the various levels--deserves to be deflated: most of its problems arise from taking our own carvings of this physical space too seriously.



At the highest level--what Chopra calls the seventh level, which Huxley (in the Perennial Philosophy) calls the "unitive knowledge of the Divine Groiund of Being:"--we are All One.



I'm not even sure what that expresses, if it expresses anything at all.

[Nachismo]

I'm not even sure what that expresses, if it expresses anything at all - Reality Apologist.

"unitive knowledge of the Divine Groiund of Being" This is refering to the concept that there is a point in ones progress where the aspirant is able to perceive the subtle connection that exists binding all things together. This is when the person feels a direct relationship with this force and information would become more of a two way street instead of just flowing outside constantly.

[Ambient]

One reason why i enjoy the geographical sciences is its appreciation of the relationship between nature and culture.

Unity consciousness could be summarized as understanding that we are biologically and culturally derived from nature. Without natural exsitance, biology cannot exist, culture cannot exist, and spirit cannot exist.

I dont know if objects have intrinsic functions or if meaning is just a projection, the jury is still out on that for me. But for me material nature is unquestionably real, unquestionably significant and unquestionably beautifal and majestic.

If you want proof smoke a joint under the stars on a cool summer night at a beach a weeks walk from civilisation.

[Nachismo]

So some time has gone by.......

In my daily life talking about the sorts of topics that bring us together here, I've noticed some things.Looks like semantics is a big challenge that hampers communication between those looking to talk about things with others who are looking.Symbolism seems to overcome this to a certain degree, but even then a purely intellectual grasp of these "otherworldy" topics is not sufficient for complete understanding.The imagination and the heart seem to play a large role in this.Really makes one appreciate the arts, for their true beauty.

There is definately some truth in the perspective that what the pure intellect creates tends to always have a polar opposite expressed.Communication stemming from the heart seems more effective, because those who don't get it, aren't offended as easily by sharing one's subjective experiences, as opposed to philosophical ideas.

Talking to a wide variety of people, I've gotten creative inspiration from some surprising sources.Often times people who seem shallow, or negative on the surface, share some great insights into the nature of life.It takes time, but when people open their hearts to you, and share their deep hopes, personal truths, and life lessons, there is far too much to be gained by listening respectfully, and sharing with each other.These can be magical moments in a sometimes mundane existence.

I am greatly impressed by some of the youth I talk too.Many have an intuitive understanding of the bigger picture, and are couragously putting together the pieces for themselves on their own initiative.I am inquisitve, and some of the things I hear them say, for their age, just make me smile to realize how far ahead of the game they are, compared to me at their age.Hopefully they continue to use their critical thinking skills, listen to their hearts, and abandon the more superficial messages that our modern times are shifting away from.....

As well, I noticed many people of different faiths, are very happy to share their beliefs, and spiritual gems of their religious background, when approached respectfully.People like sharing things that have made a difference, and their understanding of their faiths can often come from a different angle then those portrayed in the media or negative stereotypes that exist in our culture.

Use caution though, when discussing the mysteries, because those who understand them may feel insulted if you are sacriligious discussing them.Don't turn a fencing match into a swordfight!