Programming people through mathematics

[talonner]

This is my writing:



1/2 = .50
1/4 = .25
1/8 = .125

1 inch = 2.54cm

Think about it.

Metric:

10mm to 1cm, 100cm to 1m, 1000m to 1km etc.

1cm^3 is 1mL.

1000mL of pure water at sea level weighs 1kg. 1L = 1Kg.

It seems very simple. Too simple, the base 10 system.

Now, decimals.

0.1 is 10%, or 1/10.

0.125 is 12.5%, or 1/8.

Decimals and the metric system help rewire your thoughts, thinking and brain structure in to a very simple yet efficient 'machine'. It makes you less able to handle tasks involving a greater degree of thought, as everything is so structured and computer like.

The imperial system is superior, although I am not totally familiar with it.

I think it is 16 ounces to a pound, 28.25g to an ounce, 2.24lb to a kg, 2.54cm to an inch, 12 inches to a foot, 3 feet to a yard.

Because the weights are based of a unit of 16, and the measures off a unit of 12, 3, 18, 6, etc, and everything is not so rounded, it helps your brain grow and develop because more mental effort is required to get to the answers, rather than the stupidly simple metric system.

Working with such things as inches, feet, pounds, fathoms, ounces etc, make you actually smarter, as more effort is required to deduce and calculate the weights and measures of certain objects.

Using fractions is also vastly superior to using decimals. Converting decimals to percentages is insanely easy. Converting fractions to percentages/decimals is somewhat harder. Fractions are also more accurate than decimals. 1/3 is much smoother than 0.3333333333333333...... . 1/3 + 1/3 + 1/3 gives you 1. 0.333etc + 0.333etc +0.333etc does not give you 1. It gives you a number very close to 1, that is 0.999etc, which if rounded up will give you 1, but is still not 1.

Using decimals is not good for your thought patterns, nor is the metric system.

This isn't about doing maths.

This is about your mind/brain and the effects a system such as the metric system and using decimals instead of fractions, which are not helping your brain in any way whatsoever.

1 divided by 3, is 3 parts that make up 1, or 1/3.

3 parts of 0.333.... do not make 1, it is just very close.

It is infinitely far away from 1.

If the doors of the bus close instantaneously in exactly one second, and I make it on the bus before the doors close in 0.999... seconds, I managed to get on the bus.

That ellipse of 0.999......... is not the same as one second, as demonstrated by the fact I managed to get on the bus before the doors closed.

1/3 cannot be expressed as a decimal with complete accuracy.

Just like pi, at least for the present.

If pi one day does become able to be expressed as a decimal that has an end point, 1/3 still will not be able to.

0.333........... does not end.

1/3 is precise.

Decimals and the metric system are not the same, yes I know.

Decimals and the metric system, if they are the exclusive ways of doing maths and using numbers, are bad for your brain. They are too structured and computer like.

Imperial is a great system to learn to use because it does not computerise you.

If you find someone who is perhaps slightly smarter than average, or someone who enjoys numbers, or someone who thinks a lot, and only teach them decimals and not fractions, and they only use the metric system, then if they start thinking about numbers in their spare time, and doing decimals etc as they trail off to sleep, their mind could get stuck on that and cause irreversible damage and harm to themselves on those never ending decimals.

No matter what you write, 0.999........ will never be the same as 1.

Nor will 1/3 be the same as 0.333.....

THE BELOW EQUATION IS WRONG
x=0.99999......
(multiply by 10)
10x = 9.9999.........
(subtract x)
9x = 9
(divide by 9)
x = 1
THE ABOVE EQUATION IS WRONG

I also want to try that maths again.

THE BELOW EQUATION IS CORRECT
x = 0.999999............
(multiply by 10)
9.9999........ = 9.99999..........

Wow, amazing.

(subtract x)

9 = 9

Wow, amazing.

That does not make 0.99999999.......... = 1.
THE ABOVE EQUATION IS CORRECT

You're really an Oxford mathematician?

You're either incredibly stupid or you are jealous of those smarter than you and are very grandoise.

Do you have savants working for you or something?

I have no pity for you.

This is not my writing, however the bolded sections I agree with and are reponses to the deception of this alleged Oxford University mathematician. If it's not bolded I don't agree with it. This has gone around the world to various media and goverment departments, so if someone finds it interesting, who isn't as simple as animalmother, and I'm sure there are many, many people above his basic reasoning skills, then all is well. Certain websites have been taken down via malicious attacks after hosting this content, or have been told to remove it by powers that will soon cease to be.

They are the exact same value.

1/3 = 0.333...

They are just different ways of representing the same thing.

Take a look at "1/3". What you're really looking at is an operation that results in a scalar value, and that value is 0.3333.....

The same way the symbol for π implies an operation, which is the circumference of a circle divided by it's diameter. The result is a scalar ratio that remains constant no matter how large the circle is or what your measurement unit is. The value of the ratio, of course, is 3.141....... (expressed in decimal, of course)

HOW close? THAT is the magic question! This is what you need to ponder.

By all means, do try and write down the answer to 1 divided by 3.

I can see that your mind is starting to doubt what it's telling itself (please don't think of this as an insult - it's an observation). Go on, do the exercise. There is an important epiphany waiting for you, and you're going to love it, I promise.

HOW close?

I'm trying to get you to think about this. Let me phrase it another way. If you got THAT close (as close as you say it is), would it be possible to get closer?

If the answer is yes, then it means that you can take another step of a fixed size to close the gap completely.

If the answer is no, then it means that you can take another step of a fixed size to close the gap completely.


Does the above sound illogical because it's contradictory? Think about it for a while.



Nope, not dumb nor deliberately deceptive. I understand the mathematical principles in dispute fully, and I'm trying to get you to grasp it as well. Mathematics is the ultimate truth, and I would love for you to see the big picture.

I realise this sounds a bit like religious proselytizing, and that it perhaps even appears arrogant to you, but I can very clearly see the gaps in your thinking on this subject. THe difficulty for me is presenting the correct viewpoint in a way that you will intuit yourself, because nobody else can do it for you.


It's not less than one. It equals one. You are being fooled by the fact that there is a zero (call it an optical illusion if you will).

Numbering systems are funny animals in the sense that they can represent values in different ways.

An example would be Pi. It's an irrational magic number, and is trancendental to boot.

It's value is 3.141.....<etc>.

There's another way to represent that irrational value: π.

0.9999999..... and 1 are the same thing, they are just different ways of presenting the same value.

Remember that 0.999999999999999999999999999999 and 0.999999999999999999999999... (ellipses) are not the same.

The proof for it is very simple and if you google it you'll find many references.

As an Oxford mathematician and sane human being, I assure you that .99 repeating equals 1.

Your attempt to show otherwise was frankly hilarious, when you went from

10x = 9.9999999......
to, by subtracting x,
10 = 9.11111111......
where you have clearly divided by x on the left and subtracted .88888.... from the right. You are a moron. And .999~ = 1.
And .333~ = 1/3.
And your mum = fat.

You fail to understand the concept of an infinitely repeating decimal.

.9999999999... is defined as the sum of the infinite geometric series of 9/10 + 9/100 + 9/1000 + 9/10000 + .... + 9/(10^n) + ....... and so on.

The definition of "the sum of an infinite series" is "the value to which the partial sums converge".

.999~ = 1.0 by the definition of the notation.

If 0,99999... equals 1, then 0,89999... equals 0,99999... which equals 1

So... 0,89999... equals 1 as well?

If you were to follow this, 0 = 1

You people are idiots.

Infinity is only theoretical.

---------------

Oh I see.

You're saying

"0.99recurring = 1-a bee's dick."

This does not make any sense whatsoever.

What's 1/3?

The answer is obvious... 0.33333333333(etc).

So if 1 divided by 3 gives you the above result, multiplying the result by 3 should logically undo the operation, no so? In other words, 3 x 1/3 = 1.

So if 1/3 is 0.33333(etc), and 3 x 1/3 = 1, then 1/3 + 1/3 + 1/3 = 1!

Don't let the zero fool you.

Here's a deep question: HOW close to 1?

Or if you phrase it differently, how FAR AWAY from 1 is it?

"Infinitely close"?

There's no such thing, just like "Infinitely far away" implies that it's not close at all. What it boils down to is that the value difference is 0.

Trust me, you have a completely incorrect intuition of how it works, or you're not thinking it through properly.

Let's work it again step by step.

1) 1/3 is the same as saying 1 divided by three. Do you agree?
2) 1/3 is 0.33333333333....<etc>. Do you agree?
3) 1 divided by 3, then multiplied by 3, gives you 1 again. Do you agree?

If you agree on all three counts, then logically you cannot deny that 1/3 * 3 = 1. And if you agree to that, then you cannot deny that 0.33333333333....<etc> * 3 = 1.

Also... 0.9999999....<etc> divided by 3 gives 0.33333333333....<etc>.

So the same thing applies. The end result is that 0.9999999999999...<etc> = 1.0

There's no conspiracy here or an attempt to mislead. What you need to grasp is that the decimal system can confuse due to the way it is forced to present certain values as a result of a mathematical operation. Your mind is trying to put an arbitrary limit on how deep the rabbit hole goes (the infinite repetition of 3's or 9's), and that's why it's not intuitive for you. It's not truly possible for us to grasp infinity, and that's why it's odd for us.

Work with me here. Not trying to argue, I'm trying to get you to see things in a different light (and trust me when that light goes on you're gonna be amazed at how cool it is).

Okay, so you regard point #2 as false. (this appears to be the core of the disagreement)

If 1/3 is NOT equal to 0.3333333333....<etc>, then what is it equal to? You need to write the result down, please, in decimal. (it's part of the thought experiment).

The difference between 1/3 and pi, is that pi is an irrational number. That's why mathematicians don't use "3.141628.....<infinity>" every time they want to express the ratio "pi" in an equation. Instead, they have a very useful placeholder, which is the character π.

The result of 1/3 yields a rational fraction (when expressed in base 10). We don't have a convenient placeholder for it, because there's nothing really all that remarkable about the result of 1 divided by 3 (it's not a magic number), so we just represent it as a fraction "1/3". Nevertheless, decimal notation does allow us to represent the result without having to type an infinity of mantissa digits, by putting a dot over the repeating decimal fraction.

Regardless of how it "looks", 1/3 and 0.3(with dot on the 3) are just two ways of writing the same thing.

[Death_Merchant]

These are not good.

Think about it.

Metric:

10mm to 1cm, 100cm to 1m, 1000m to 1km etc.

1cm^3 is 1mL.

1000mL of pure water at sea level weighs 1kg. 1L = 1Kg.

It seems very simple. Too simple, the base 10 system.

Now, decimals.

0.1 is 10%, or 1/10.

0.125 is 12.5%, or 1/8.

Decimals and the metric system help rewire your thoughts, thinking and brain structure in to a very simple yet efficient 'machine'. It makes you less able to handle tasks involving a greater degree of thought, as everything is so structured and computer like.

The imperial system is superior, although I am not totally familiar with it.

I think it is 16 ounces to a pound, 28.25g to an ounce, 2.24lb to a kg, 2.54cm to an inch, 12 inches to a foot, 3 feet to a yard.

Because the weights are based of a unit of 16, and the measures off a unit of 12, 3, 18, 6, etc, and everything is not so rounded, it helps your brain grow and develop because more mental effort is required to get to the answers, rather than the stupidly simple metric system.

Working with such things as inches, feet, pounds, fathoms, ounces etc, make you actually smarter, as more effort is required to deduce and calculate the weights and measures of certain objects.

Using fractions is also vastly superior to using decimals. Converting decimals to percentages is insanely easy. Converting fractions to percentages/decimals is somewhat harder. Fractions are also more accurate than decimals. 1/3 is much smoother than 0.3333333333333333...... . 1/3 + 1/3 + 1/3 gives you 1. 0.333etc + 0.333etc +0.333etc does not give you 1. It gives you a number very close to 1, that is 0.999etc, which if rounded up will give you 1, but is still not 1.

Using decimals is not good for your thought patterns, nor is the metric system.

The imperial system is a relative system of measurement, while SI units are a constant system of measurement. Weight, which is measured in pounds/ounce etc... is the measurement of the force to counteract gravity. In space you weigh nothing, but with mass, it's the same amount on earth or in space. Mass never changes, which is what has allowed us to create standardized systems for physics and chem. The metric system isn't a simplified system of the imperial system, but rather an entirely different system of measurement altogether. Also, the Kelvin scale is the best measurement of temperature or heat, as it's a linear scale while Fahrenheit is curved. You're comparing apples to oranges, not apples to apples. Anyone with a grade 7 education should know this.

Edit: Anyone who can do chemistry or physics shouldn't have a problem with fractions.

[Name's Taken]

:facepalm:

[Rizzo in a box]

Well, it's not as stupid as most of the stuff in this forum.

[talonner]

This isn't about doing maths.

This is about your mind/brain and the effects a system such as the metric system and using decimals instead of fractions, which are not helping your brain in any way whatsoever.

[Valheru]

Fractions are also more accurate than decimals. 1/3 is much smoother than 0.3333333333333333...... . 1/3 + 1/3 + 1/3 gives you 1. 0.333etc + 0.333etc +0.333etc does not give you 1. It gives you a number very close to 1, that is 0.999etc, which if rounded up will give you 1, but is still not 1.

This does not make any sense whatsoever.

What's 1/3?

The answer is obvious... 0.33333333333(etc).

So if 1 divided by 3 gives you the above result, multiplying the result by 3 should logically undo the operation, no so? In other words, 3 x 1/3 = 1.

So if 1/3 is 0.33333(etc), and 3 x 1/3 = 1, then 1/3 + 1/3 + 1/3 = 1!

Don't let the zero fool you.


It gives you a number very close to 1


Here's a deep question: HOW close to 1?

Or if you phrase it differently, how FAR AWAY from 1 is it?

"Infinitely close"?

There's no such thing, just like "Infinitely far away" implies that it's not close at all. What it boils down to is that the value difference is 0.

[talonner]

You are wrong.

1 divided by 3, is 3 parts that make up 1, or 1/3.

3 parts of 0.333.... do not make 1, it is just very close.

It is infinately far away from 1.

If the doors of the bus close instantaneously in exactly one second, and I make it on the bus before the doors close in 0.999... seconds, I managed to get on the bus.

That ellipse of 0.999......... is not the same as one second, as demonstrated by the fact I managed to get on the bus before the doors closed.

You are wrong.

[Valheru]

Trust me, you have a completely incorrect intuition of how it works, or you're not thinking it through properly.

Let's work it again step by step.

1) 1/3 is the same as saying 1 divided by three. Do you agree?
2) 1/3 is 0.33333333333....<etc>. Do you agree?
3) 1 divided by 3, then multiplied by 3, gives you 1 again. Do you agree?

If you agree on all three counts, then logically you cannot deny that 1/3 * 3 = 1. And if you agree to that, then you cannot deny that 0.33333333333....<etc> * 3 = 1.

Also... 0.9999999....<etc> divided by 3 gives 0.33333333333....<etc>.

So the same thing applies. The end result is that 0.9999999999999...<etc> = 1.0

There's no conspiracy here or an attempt to mislead. What you need to grasp is that the decimal system can confuse due to the way it is forced to present certain values as a result of a mathematical operation. Your mind is trying to put an arbitrary limit on how deep the rabbit hole goes (the infinite repetition of 3's or 9's), and that's why it's not intuitive for you. It's not truly possible for us to grasp infinity, and that's why it's odd for us.

[talonner]

Trust me, you have a completely incorrect intuition of how it works, or you're not thinking it through properly.

You're wrong.

Let's work it again step by step.

1) 1/3 is the same as saying 1 divided by three. Do you agree?
2) 1/3 is 0.33333333333....<etc>. Do you agree?
3) 1 divided by 3, then multiplied by 3, gives you 1 again. Do you agree?

1) yes
2) no. Is violet the same as purple? No, they're pretty close though.
3) yes

If you agree on all three counts, then logically you cannot deny that 1/3 * 3 = 1. And if you agree to that, then you cannot deny that 0.33333333333....<etc> * 3 = 1.

I don't agree on all three counts. 0.333...... x3 does not equal 1. Are you being deliberately misleading or are you dumb?

Also... 0.9999999....<etc> divided by 3 gives 0.33333333333....<etc>.
Yes.

So the same thing applies. The end result is that 0.9999999999999...<etc> = 1.0
No.

There's no conspiracy here or an attempt to mislead. What you need to grasp is that the decimal system can confuse due to the way it is forced to present certain values as a result of a mathematical operation. Your mind is trying to put an arbitrary limit on how deep the rabbit hole goes (the infinite repetition of 3's or 9's), and that's why it's not intuitive for you. It's not truly possible for us to grasp infinity, and that's why it's odd for us.

I can tell you, that 0.999..... is infinitely different to 1.

[Valheru]

Work with me here. Not trying to argue, I'm trying to get you to see things in a different light (and trust me when that light goes on you're gonna be amazed at how cool it is).

Okay, so you regard point #2 as false. (this appears to be the core of the disagreement)

If 1/3 is NOT equal to 0.3333333333....<etc>, then what is it equal to? You need to write the result down, please, in decimal. (it's part of the thought experiment).

[talonner]

Oh an experiment?

1/3 cannot be expressed as a decimal with complete accuracy.

Just like pi, at least for the present.

If pi one day does become able to be expressed as a decimal that has an end point, 1/3 still will not be able to.

[Valheru]

Oh an experiment?

1/3 cannot be expressed as a decimal with complete accuracy.

Just like pi, at least for the present.

If pi one day does become able to be expressed as a decimal that has an end point, 1/3 still will not be able to.

The difference between 1/3 and pi, is that pi is an irrational number. That's why mathematicians don't use "3.141628.....<infinity>" every time they want to express the ratio "pi" in an equation. Instead, they have a very useful placeholder, which is the character π.

The result of 1/3 yields a rational fraction (when expressed in base 10). We don't have a convenient placeholder for it, because there's nothing really all that remarkable about the result of 1 divided by 3 (it's not a magic number (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/magic_number)), so we just represent it as a fraction "1/3". Nevertheless, decimal notation does allow us to represent the result without having to type an infinity of mantissa digits, by putting a dot over the repeating decimal fraction.

Regardless of how it "looks", 1/3 and 0.3(with dot on the 3) are just two ways of writing the same thing.

[Valheru]

P.S Let's ask a moderator to merge the varying threads about this into one.

[talonner]

They are not the same thing.

You are wrong.

[talonner]

P.S Let's ask a moderator to merge the varying threads about this into one.

Let's not and say we did. This needs to be spread around in the interests of humanity and public decency. This can cause serious damage to the minds of people if left unchecked. Decimals are really bad, as is the metric system.

People have to learn both.

[Valheru]

Let's not and say we did. This needs to be spread around in the interests of humanity and public decency. This can cause serious damage to the minds of people if left unchecked. Decimals are really bad, as is the metric system.

People have to learn both.


Hang on a minute, first.

You are conflating decimal with metric.

The IMPERIAL measurement system is still based on decimal (base 10).

When my apprentices ask me about this, I normally ask them this question:

"You have half a glass of water. How much water do you have?"

They normally roll their eyes and say "Doh, HALF A GLASS, idiot!"

Then I ask them (having fully expected the above answer), "Okay, so I throw that half a glass of water into a glass that is half the size of the current one. How much water do I have now?"

This gives them pause, because at that moment they usually realise that the UNIT of measurement is arbitrary, and what you should focus on are scalar values.

[Valheru]

P.S Unfortunately it's going home time, I'll continue this discussion with you tomorrow (I think it's important).

I'd like to suggest that you try and find some further reading on this. I get what you are trying to say (that decimal fractions imply innaccuracy), but it's only because your intuition about them is sorta dogmatic.

I'll convince you yet! :)

[talonner]

Um no.

This is more about the damage decimals and the metric system can cause to the mind, particularly that of the gifted individual.

[Trix Are For Kids]

While one would at first think that the Imperial system would be better, it is used by we Americans, who, unfortunatly, are too stupid not to use calculators, even for metric units...:facepalm:

[talonner]

It's not about maths it is about the mind.

[scovegner]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/0.999...
:facepalm::picard:
And imperial would make sense if we had a base 16 numbering system, but we don't.

[LavaRed]

The Imperial system is easier to understand intuitively, as in it gives a better sense of dimension. I know I can measure stuff in inches at a glance easier than centimeters, simply because my thumb digit is about an inch long. Same goes for feet.
There is no such comparability in metric.

[talonner]

I can do metric easier by eye because that is the system we have over here.

However, the thread is about the damage metric and decimals can cause compared to imperial and fractions.

[Death_Merchant]

You are wrong.

1 divided by 3, is 3 parts that make up 1, or 1/3.

3 parts of 0.333.... do not make 1, it is just very close.

It is infinately far away from 1.

If the doors of the bus close instantaneously in exactly one second, and I make it on the bus before the doors close in 0.999... seconds, I managed to get on the bus.

That ellipse of 0.999......... is not the same as one second, as demonstrated by the fact I managed to get on the bus before the doors closed.

You are wrong.

Except in math we use significant digits. In this case, your significant digits would be one place. When you round your answer accordingly, you find that the answer is actually 1, and you're simply ignoring mathematical rules to suite your point.

Also, decimals are simply fractions written a different way. When using math for calculating in most sciences, like chem, you use many fractions while using SI units. Also, it's pretty common in the trades to use decimal inches instead of fractions. They're used a lot when measuring materials. So even in the imperial system, you use decimals. Even when you use the metric system, you still use fractions too.

Also, a non-linear conversion scale when using the imperial system creates a larger failure rate when calculating things.

I'm not sure where you went to school, but I was taught metric, which also includes fractions. If you work in construction here, part of your training is learning to use both the imperial system as well as metric.

What are you basing your assertion that metric makes you stupid? It still uses fractions, but it's simply a linear scale system based off the meter and gram. If you don't understand what I'm talking about, you're an idiot.

[talonner]

This is my writing:



1/2 = .50
1/4 = .25
1/8 = .125

1 inch = 2.54cm

Think about it.

Metric:

10mm to 1cm, 100cm to 1m, 1000m to 1km etc.

1cm^3 is 1mL.

1000mL of pure water at sea level weighs 1kg. 1L = 1Kg.

It seems very simple. Too simple, the base 10 system.

Now, decimals.

0.1 is 10%, or 1/10.

0.125 is 12.5%, or 1/8.

Decimals and the metric system help rewire your thoughts, thinking and brain structure in to a very simple yet efficient 'machine'. It makes you less able to handle tasks involving a greater degree of thought, as everything is so structured and computer like.

The imperial system is superior, although I am not totally familiar with it.

I think it is 16 ounces to a pound, 28.25g to an ounce, 2.24lb to a kg, 2.54cm to an inch, 12 inches to a foot, 3 feet to a yard.

Because the weights are based of a unit of 16, and the measures off a unit of 12, 3, 18, 6, etc, and everything is not so rounded, it helps your brain grow and develop because more mental effort is required to get to the answers, rather than the stupidly simple metric system.

Working with such things as inches, feet, pounds, fathoms, ounces etc, make you actually smarter, as more effort is required to deduce and calculate the weights and measures of certain objects.

Using fractions is also vastly superior to using decimals. Converting decimals to percentages is insanely easy. Converting fractions to percentages/decimals is somewhat harder. Fractions are also more accurate than decimals. 1/3 is much smoother than 0.3333333333333333...... . 1/3 + 1/3 + 1/3 gives you 1. 0.333etc + 0.333etc +0.333etc does not give you 1. It gives you a number very close to 1, that is 0.999etc, which if rounded up will give you 1, but is still not 1.

Using decimals is not good for your thought patterns, nor is the metric system.

This isn't about doing maths.

This is about your mind/brain and the effects a system such as the metric system and using decimals instead of fractions, which are not helping your brain in any way whatsoever.

1 divided by 3, is 3 parts that make up 1, or 1/3.

3 parts of 0.333.... do not make 1, it is just very close.

It is infinitely far away from 1.

If the doors of the bus close instantaneously in exactly one second, and I make it on the bus before the doors close in 0.999... seconds, I managed to get on the bus.

That ellipse of 0.999......... is not the same as one second, as demonstrated by the fact I managed to get on the bus before the doors closed.

1/3 cannot be expressed as a decimal with complete accuracy.

Just like pi, at least for the present.

If pi one day does become able to be expressed as a decimal that has an end point, 1/3 still will not be able to.

0.333........... does not end.

1/3 is precise.

Decimals and the metric system are not the same, yes I know.

Decimals and the metric system, if they are the exclusive ways of doing maths and using numbers, are bad for your brain. They are too structured and computer like.

Imperial is a great system to learn to use because it does not computerise you.

If you find someone who is perhaps slightly smarter than average, or someone who enjoys numbers, or someone who thinks a lot, and only teach them decimals and not fractions, and they only use the metric system, then if they start thinking about numbers in their spare time, and doing decimals etc as they trail off to sleep, their mind could get stuck on that and cause irreversible damage and harm to themselves on those never ending decimals.

No matter what you write, 0.999........ will never be the same as 1.

Nor will 1/3 be the same as 0.333.....

THE BELOW EQUATION IS WRONG
x=0.99999......
(multiply by 10)
10x = 9.9999.........
(subtract x)
9x = 9
(divide by 9)
x = 1
THE ABOVE EQUATION IS WRONG

I also want to try that maths again.

THE BELOW EQUATION IS CORRECT
x = 0.999999............
(multiply by 10)
9.9999........ = 9.99999..........

Wow, amazing.

(subtract x)

9 = 9

Wow, amazing.

That does not make 0.99999999.......... = 1.
THE ABOVE EQUATION IS CORRECT

You're really an Oxford mathematician?

You're either incredibly stupid or you are jealous of those smarter than you and are very grandoise.

Do you have savants working for you or something?

I have no pity for you.

This is not my writing, however the bolded sections I agree with and are reponses to the deception of this alleged Oxford University mathematician. If it's not bolded I don't agree with it. This has gone around the world to various media and goverment departments, so if someone finds it interesting, who isn't as simple as animalmother, and I'm sure there are many, many people above his basic reasoning skills, then all is well. Certain websites have been taken down via malicious attacks after hosting this content, or have been told to remove it by powers that will soon cease to be.

They are the exact same value.

1/3 = 0.333...

They are just different ways of representing the same thing.

Take a look at "1/3". What you're really looking at is an operation that results in a scalar value, and that value is 0.3333.....

The same way the symbol for π implies an operation, which is the circumference of a circle divided by it's diameter. The result is a scalar ratio that remains constant no matter how large the circle is or what your measurement unit is. The value of the ratio, of course, is 3.141....... (expressed in decimal, of course)

HOW close? THAT is the magic question! This is what you need to ponder.

By all means, do try and write down the answer to 1 divided by 3.

I can see that your mind is starting to doubt what it's telling itself (please don't think of this as an insult - it's an observation). Go on, do the exercise. There is an important epiphany waiting for you, and you're going to love it, I promise.

HOW close?

I'm trying to get you to think about this. Let me phrase it another way. If you got THAT close (as close as you say it is), would it be possible to get closer?

If the answer is yes, then it means that you can take another step of a fixed size to close the gap completely.

If the answer is no, then it means that you can take another step of a fixed size to close the gap completely.


Does the above sound illogical because it's contradictory? Think about it for a while.



Nope, not dumb nor deliberately deceptive. I understand the mathematical principles in dispute fully, and I'm trying to get you to grasp it as well. Mathematics is the ultimate truth, and I would love for you to see the big picture.

I realise this sounds a bit like religious proselytizing, and that it perhaps even appears arrogant to you, but I can very clearly see the gaps in your thinking on this subject. THe difficulty for me is presenting the correct viewpoint in a way that you will intuit yourself, because nobody else can do it for you.


It's not less than one. It equals one. You are being fooled by the fact that there is a zero (call it an optical illusion if you will).

Numbering systems are funny animals in the sense that they can represent values in different ways.

An example would be Pi. It's an irrational magic number, and is trancendental to boot.

It's value is 3.141.....<etc>.

There's another way to represent that irrational value: π.

0.9999999..... and 1 are the same thing, they are just different ways of presenting the same value.

Remember that 0.999999999999999999999999999999 and 0.999999999999999999999999... (ellipses) are not the same.

The proof for it is very simple and if you google it you'll find many references.

As an Oxford mathematician and sane human being, I assure you that .99 repeating equals 1.

Your attempt to show otherwise was frankly hilarious, when you went from

10x = 9.9999999......
to, by subtracting x,
10 = 9.11111111......
where you have clearly divided by x on the left and subtracted .88888.... from the right. You are a moron. And .999~ = 1.
And .333~ = 1/3.
And your mum = fat.

You fail to understand the concept of an infinitely repeating decimal.

.9999999999... is defined as the sum of the infinite geometric series of 9/10 + 9/100 + 9/1000 + 9/10000 + .... + 9/(10^n) + ....... and so on.

The definition of "the sum of an infinite series" is "the value to which the partial sums converge".

.999~ = 1.0 by the definition of the notation.

If 0,99999... equals 1, then 0,89999... equals 0,99999... which equals 1

So... 0,89999... equals 1 as well?

If you were to follow this, 0 = 1

You people are idiots.

Infinity is only theoretical.

---------------

Oh I see.

You're saying

"0.99recurring = 1-a bee's dick."

This does not make any sense whatsoever.

What's 1/3?

The answer is obvious... 0.33333333333(etc).

So if 1 divided by 3 gives you the above result, multiplying the result by 3 should logically undo the operation, no so? In other words, 3 x 1/3 = 1.

So if 1/3 is 0.33333(etc), and 3 x 1/3 = 1, then 1/3 + 1/3 + 1/3 = 1!

Don't let the zero fool you.

Here's a deep question: HOW close to 1?

Or if you phrase it differently, how FAR AWAY from 1 is it?

"Infinitely close"?

There's no such thing, just like "Infinitely far away" implies that it's not close at all. What it boils down to is that the value difference is 0.

Trust me, you have a completely incorrect intuition of how it works, or you're not thinking it through properly.

Let's work it again step by step.

1) 1/3 is the same as saying 1 divided by three. Do you agree?
2) 1/3 is 0.33333333333....<etc>. Do you agree?
3) 1 divided by 3, then multiplied by 3, gives you 1 again. Do you agree?

If you agree on all three counts, then logically you cannot deny that 1/3 * 3 = 1. And if you agree to that, then you cannot deny that 0.33333333333....<etc> * 3 = 1.

Also... 0.9999999....<etc> divided by 3 gives 0.33333333333....<etc>.

So the same thing applies. The end result is that 0.9999999999999...<etc> = 1.0

There's no conspiracy here or an attempt to mislead. What you need to grasp is that the decimal system can confuse due to the way it is forced to present certain values as a result of a mathematical operation. Your mind is trying to put an arbitrary limit on how deep the rabbit hole goes (the infinite repetition of 3's or 9's), and that's why it's not intuitive for you. It's not truly possible for us to grasp infinity, and that's why it's odd for us.

Work with me here. Not trying to argue, I'm trying to get you to see things in a different light (and trust me when that light goes on you're gonna be amazed at how cool it is).

Okay, so you regard point #2 as false. (this appears to be the core of the disagreement)

If 1/3 is NOT equal to 0.3333333333....<etc>, then what is it equal to? You need to write the result down, please, in decimal. (it's part of the thought experiment).

The difference between 1/3 and pi, is that pi is an irrational number. That's why mathematicians don't use "3.141628.....<infinity>" every time they want to express the ratio "pi" in an equation. Instead, they have a very useful placeholder, which is the character π.

The result of 1/3 yields a rational fraction (when expressed in base 10). We don't have a convenient placeholder for it, because there's nothing really all that remarkable about the result of 1 divided by 3 (it's not a magic number), so we just represent it as a fraction "1/3". Nevertheless, decimal notation does allow us to represent the result without having to type an infinity of mantissa digits, by putting a dot over the repeating decimal fraction.

Regardless of how it "looks", 1/3 and 0.3(with dot on the 3) are just two ways of writing the same thing.

[Valheru]

Dude, you are a laugh-a-minute-generating fuckstick.

Did they teach you this crap in the SBS? Pffffffggngnnnnnnbwhahahahahahahaha!


Certain websites have been taken down via malicious attacks after hosting this content, or have been told to remove it by powers that will soon cease to be.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA WE TREMBLE IN AWE OF YOUR POWDERZ! :picard:

[talonner]

SBS? Special Boat Service? Special Broadcasting Service?

You suck at maths.

[Agent 008]

Not this shit again...

[scovegner]

0.899999... = 0.9 ..

[talonner]

Wrong.

How can anyone trust anything you write when you have a signature such as that under your post?

This is a website frequented by people of relatively young ages, and we all know what kids are like when you tell them "Don't".

Fuck off.

You suck at maths.

[Rust]

Using fractions is also vastly superior to using decimals. Converting decimals to percentages is insanely easy. Converting fractions to percentages/decimals is somewhat harder. Fractions are also more accurate than decimals. 1/3 is much smoother than 0.3333333333333333...... . 1/3 + 1/3 + 1/3 gives you 1. 0.333etc + 0.333etc +0.333etc does not give you 1. It gives you a number very close to 1, that is 0.999etc, which if rounded up will give you 1, but is still not 1.


You are fucking retarded.

[talonner]

You are fucking retarded.

Whose retarded? Is she good looking?

Harsh name though, kind of like the boy called Sue.

Is retarded your mother?

[Agent 008]

Whose retarded? Is she good looking?

Harsh name though, kind of like the boy called Sue.

Is retarded your mother?

You are fucking retarded.

[talonner]

You are fucking retarded.

Is retarded your mother?

[nooner]

haha, this thread is proof that it's not just the american school system that's gone to shit.

"gifted individuals" let me guess, you think you're one of them and you've been horribly maligned by being forced to live and operate by the metric system, right?

Tard.

[talonner]

haha, this thread is proof that it's not just the american school system that's gone to shit.

"gifted individuals" let me guess, you think you're one of them and you've been horribly maligned by being forced to live and operate by the metric system, right?

Tard.

The government thinks I'm a gifted individual.

[talonner]

If you believe in the Big Bang Theory, then you don't have any free will. Here is why, unless my very limited understanding of that crap is wrong:

All matter was condensed in to one tiny point that was very dense. It then exploded, creating space and elements and stuff like that.

Now, if all that matter, atoms and molecules and that kind of stuff, was compressed in to a single point, and space is a vacuum, and it exploded, a chemical reaction occurred within a closed environment, which is completely controlled.

Therefore, every atom and molecule is behaving according to how it is supposed to, and there is nothing that can be done to change that, and you have no free will.

[Agent 008]

If you believe in the Big Bang Theory, then you don't have any free will. Here is why, unless my very limited understanding of that crap is wrong:

All matter was condensed in to one tiny point that was very dense. It then exploded, creating space and elements and stuff like that.

Now, if all that matter, atoms and molecules and that kind of stuff, was compressed in to a single point, and space is a vacuum, and it exploded, a chemical reaction occurred within a closed environment, which is completely controlled.

Therefore, every atom and molecule is behaving according to how it is supposed to, and there is nothing that can be done to change that, and you have no free will.

_VxQuPBX1_U

[Rust]

unless my very limited understanding of that crap is wrong

Bingo.

[talonner]

If you use shapes for maths, such as triangles, and squares, and pyramids, and dodecahedrons for counting, you will be fine.

Eg, you have a tri plus a rectangle, you get a a sept or something.

If you use numbers for counting, and rely only on the metric system for weights and measures and the decimal system for numbering, and have no knowledge of shapes, fractions or imperial measurements, your brain will capsize.

The imperial system is better because it is more complex. Fractions are good too because they are not never ending.

[Agent 008]

If you use shapes for maths, such as triangles, and squares, and pyramids, and dodecahedrons for counting, you will be fine.

Eg, you have a tri plus a rectangle, you get a a sept or something.

If you use numbers for counting, and rely only on the metric system for weights and measures and the decimal system for numbering, and have no knowledge of shapes, fractions or imperial measurements, your brain will capsize.

The imperial system is better because it is more complex. Fractions are good too because they are not never ending.

WAOxY_nHdew

[lolocaust]

talonner, at first I thought you were just dumb. then I realized that you're clearly trolling, and that everyone would figure it out. I was wrong on both counts. you have far exceeded my expectations and gave zoklet the gift of epic lulz.

I just wanted to thank you for making my day a little brighter.

[talonner]

Why?

And, thank you, you are welcome.

[talonner]

Having a decent vocabulary is very important, however not many people are taught this thanks to modern education and the desire of some to create a slave society.

A look at certain print, radio and television news will show you this.

The removal of certain words, phrases and terminology by people considering themselves the 'elite' who need to babysit the 'unwashed masses', is making the general population dumber and more subdued, as well as being unable to effectively communicate or get across their ideas coherently or effectively.

Because far too many people don't reach their full potential in regards to attained knowledge or intelligence thanks to the effects of modern education, entertainment, and news media, things such as slang are actually beneficial to the mind, it teaches you to think in one language and communicate in two.

Simple slang like ebonics isn't very good for anyone though. It can increase empathetic communication though, which actually is beneficial, as a stranger overhearing conversation, thinking it is two idiots who can't hardly communicate with each other, will be completely unable to pick up on the empathy occurring between parties.

Rhyming slang can be very good for you. Rhyming in general is good for you if you have to think about it.

Automatic rhyming slang, where you and the people around you know what you are saying by just hearing it can be good/bad depending.

Eg, if I say "me plate'sa meat" and you think "feet" when you hear it, can be very good. If I say that and you associate that phrase with the imagery/feeling/thought of feet in itself, and not the word feet, you can be in trouble and lose vocabulary.

Shortening that phrase to "me plate'sa" is very bad. As is shortening "Me eu de cologne" to "me eu de". It is keeping the same meaning available, however the rhyme association is gone, and it makes you forget the original word you had to rhyme with, eg cologne and meat, thus helping you forget the original words that go with what you were trying to communicate and making you dumber.

Slang can be a very effective form of encrypted communication though, in the sense it doesn't matter who overhears it if they can't understand the slang.

[talonner]

www.dsd.gov.au

[talonner]

http://www.dsd.gov.au/_lib/img/logo.gif

[talonner]

http://afp.gov.au/__data/assets/file/18170/afp_logo.gif

[talonner]

http://aap.com.au/img/logo_aap.gif

[Valheru]

Aap is dutch for monkey. I.e you're a fucking baboon. Now fuck off.

[talonner]

http://www.defense.gouv.fr/var/dicodrefonte/storage/images/media/structure/bandeaux/bandeau_dgse/860273-1-fre-FR/bandeau_dgse_bandeau.jpg

[scovegner]

http://www.defense.gouv.fr/var/dicodrefonte/storage/images/media/structure/bandeaux/bandeau_dgse/860273-1-fre-FR/bandeau_dgse_bandeau.jpg

I lol'd at .gouv

[AngryOnion]

The beginning of this thread reminded me of something posted on TOTSE a while back.
Its a project call octomactics its all about binary number system check it out.
http://www.infoverse.org/octomatics/octomatics.htm