Lysergic Bliss [Archive]

Ford Prefect

01-28-2009, 10:16 PM

I think it's typically assumed that without a doctorate in organic chemistry and a field full of moldy wheat, LSD is an impossible feat. And because people feel that it is impossible, they perpetuate that stereotype by leaving LSD manufacture those with doctorates and wheat farms instead of theorizing new ways to the compound.

So, lets brainstorm. Or thought shower, if we were trying to be politically correct and British. (1 (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2162568/Council-bans-brainstorming.html))

It is my opinion that the easiest/best/only practical way to LSD at this point in time is pills. Either ala drone using bromocriptine, gringard then then adding water for ergocriptine. Hydrolyze then condense with diethylamine and you've got a couple sheets of sunshine.

Bromocriptine is easy enough to find, brand name Parlodel and all that. But it's also quite a bit more expensive then Cafegot, which contains ergotamine. And with ergotamine we would have no use for a gringard.

ergotamine + NaOH -> lysergic acid

DEET + NaOH -> diethylamine

lysergic acid + diethylamine + peptitde couple reagent -> LSD-25

It's not quite that simple, it'd be best if you did the hydrolysis under nitrogen and you'd likely want ethylene glycol present in the synthesis of your DEA but you get the point. It's far from impossible.

As for your peptitde coupling reagent, you have plenty acceptable choices. I've never heard of them being particularly watched, but if that was the case it'd be possibly, although a pain in the ass, to make one at home.

If you'd rather not fuck with pills, as I'm sure you all know LSA can be extracted from HBWR or morning glory. But that method is dirty, expensive and time consuming and in my personal opinion, not really worth your time.

Thoughts?

Lysergic Rain

01-28-2009, 11:02 PM

Uncle Festers guide to practical LSD manufacture
http://rapidshare.com/files/190892779/Uncle_Festers_guide_to_practical_LSD_manufacture.p df

I think LSD has become a thing of the past. Its difficult to manufacture, and if you spill just a little bit on your it absorbs through the skin and you die. Now that we have these new exciting RCs I think our time is better spent trying to find and sythesise the one that produces effects closest to LSD

EDIT:
Not to mention any retard can grow some mushrooms in their basement. The risk and effort to make LSD just isn't worth the reward; its not the most profitable of drugs. People these days are just looking to have a good time, not an eye opening experience. That said, I LOVE acid and wish there were more labs around. Sadly though, its time has passed (stock up while you still can).

Ford Prefect

01-28-2009, 11:09 PM

Uncle Festers guide to practical LSD manufacture
http://rapidshare.com/files/190892779/Uncle_Festers_guide_to_practical_LSD_manufacture.p df

Nice thought, but that's basically the book that inspired me to make the thread. Practical my ass!

EDIT:

I think LSD has become a thing of the past. Its difficult to manufacture, and if you spill just a little bit on your it absorbs through the skin and you die. Now that we have these new exciting RCs I think our time is better spent trying to find and sythesise the one that produces effects closest to LSD

No no no no no! Fuck man, the LD50 for that stuff is close to 12,000 ug. Good luck absorbing that through your skin. And sure, RCs are great, but why waste time trying to find the closest one to LSD when you can make LSD? 2C-I from anethole isn't much easier than LSD from cafegot anyways, infact it's harder in many ways. LSD is definitely not one of those chemicals that people forget about. It's not 4-mar, and I definitely don't see people just letting it die because it requires a bit of skill in the lab.

Not to mention any retard can grow some mushrooms in their basement. The risk and effort to make LSD just isn't worth the reward; its not the most profitable of drugs. People these days are just looking to have a good time, not an eye opening experience. That said, I LOVE acid and wish there were more labs around. Sadly though, its time has passed (stock up while you still can).

Still not buying it. You've got a point, using a traditional method such as culturing ergot it would be a dangerous and inefficient drug to make and probably not worth the risk. But that method is old, and not the only way to do it.

Spending a hundred buck on pills from an offshore pharmacy and then synthesizing a gram of acid seems like a VERY profitable endeavor. Shit, where I currently reside a single hit of blotter goes for $50-60. Considering a gram would be close to 10,000 doses a person would stand to make a considerable amount. It's time has in no way passed, I believe there is just as much as a demand as ever and chemists just need to devote themselves to new ways of producing it.

Hence this thread...

Lysergic Rain

01-28-2009, 11:25 PM

Fuck man, the LD50 for that stuff is close to 12,000 ug. Good luck absorbing that through your skin.

I only mentioned it because of this passage from the book:

The potency of LSD is truly phenomenal — 10,000 doses per gram — and is easily absorbed through the skin. This is how Albert Hofmann, the
discoverer of LSD, got his first trip. He was skilled enough that his boo-boo involved a small enough dose that his brain was not fried. Beginner chemists tend to get the stuff they are cooking all over themselves, and would not be so lucky

Regardless, the point still stands that people are looking for MDMA and similar drugs, not LSD. There are a few of us psychonauts left, but not many. And most the people I've talked to who want to try LSD don't really understand it. They don't understand the difference between hallucinogenics and deliriants and expect to see leprechauns and rainbows, now sit in a field and think about the meaning of life.

Ford Prefect

01-28-2009, 11:40 PM

Regardless, the point still stands that people are looking for MDMA and similar drugs, not LSD. There are a few of us psychonauts left, but not many. And most the people I've talked to who want to try LSD don't really understand it. They don't understand the difference between hallucinogenics and deliriants and expect to see leprechauns and rainbows, now sit in a field and think about the meaning of life.

Stop quoting fester! That motherfucker included propionic anhydride in that book because it is watched even in gram amounts. Fester figures that LSD is the only drug so potent that a gram would matter so suddenly propionic acid is key to making LSD!

Fester, that retard. :)

Yes, it can be absorbed trough your skin but you really shouldn't be a chemists if you knowingly manufacture LSD without gloves on.
Back to discussing how to MAKE the drug... if you've got ideas I'd love to hear them.

Irukanji

01-29-2009, 02:05 PM

You mean a field full of mouldy rye?

And LSD is too hard for even the most experienced chemist's. You need a fair amount of expensive glassware, loads of different chemicals(illegal to get), and where i live, just 0.01g of it will stick you in the slammer for possession with intent.

But if you have the ingredients and the equipment needed, then i should be a very profitable venture indeed. But make bad stuff, and they'll probably rat you out.

TheHerald

01-29-2009, 03:51 PM

On a topic very related to the subject of this thread - JoePedo was permabanned.

http://bbs.zoklet.net/member.php?u=1711

RIP 2009-2009.

And LSD is too hard for even the most experienced chemist's.

Nah. It's a level of complexity not too far off from RP/I, really. 'n there were some thoughts on the total synthesis of lysergic acid on &t, too... though none of the posters involved are on Zoklet, and those who did were b& for showing up...

Good luck in your LSD quest, and good day.

adam_777

01-29-2009, 03:58 PM

I like the sound of the Cafergot route.

Do you think it would be feasible, though?

Extract the ergotamine tartrate from the pils, throw in some NaOH to get some LSA. Then to that add your DEA and a coupling agent?

All seems a bit.... simple, no?

It might be interesting to get some Cafergot and see how things go.... Hmmm...

Also, TheHerald, I don't think that was the JoePedo. I think someone just reg'd his name before him, or something.

stateofhack

01-29-2009, 05:21 PM

ehh,

Lets please stay on subject..and i can't see the band thing, i will ask other mods wtf is this about :)

JoePedo aka IamtheJoepedo or whatever, is not banned or IP Banned just checked. So please back on subject and no more bullshit.:mad:

Ford Prefect

01-29-2009, 05:53 PM

On a topic very related to the subject of this thread - JoePedo was permabanned.

He hasn't even received an infraction. Why would you say he's banned?

Back on topic! You guys are horrible. ;)

I like the sound of the Cafergot route.

Do you think it would be feasible, though?

Extract the ergotamine tartrate from the pils, throw in some NaOH to get some LSA. Then to that add your DEA and a coupling agent?

All seems a bit.... simple, no?

It might be interesting to get some Cafergot and see how things go.... Hmmm...

Yeah, it's feasible. Of course you've got to watch your lab conditions, but you don't need expense glassware or exotic solvents.

I'd say the only piece of glass you would need that isn't absolutely standard is a chromatography column. And that's only to be nice.

Also, it would become to lysergic acid, not LSA.

TheHerald

01-29-2009, 06:09 PM

TUnless, you're implying that you're him and you made The Herald to find out why you were banned.

Bingo. No worries.

If the "email and password" function hid the old email and confirmed through email, I'd drop the password so y'all could see the b& message for yourselves, and just change the password later. When I finally give up, I might just do so anyway. The reason given was "Making Troll accounts and spamming" with expiry "Never"... complete with inexplicable capitalization on "troll."

Edit : fuck it.

username :
ImJoeThePedo

pass :
[EDITED by Ford, cuz he's on top of this :)]

Ritual account sacrifice :
the final solution to jam the censorship surrounding a clandestine ban-in-secret

The account is now inexorably dead, but y'all can view the b& message that "doesn't exist" for yourself. Worst that can happen is that whomever did it, undoes it, no?

incorporated

01-29-2009, 07:00 PM

How well would a helium atmosphere work in place of one which is nitrogenous in the reaction Ford was mentioning? I might go ask for my job back at the pharmacy ;x. I remember you mentioned the He thing in your LSA thread (which I regret not saving =\). If I ever feel like buying a lot of HBWR seeds, though, I may patronize you for a brief summary and continuation extraction.

Also, sorry for being a bit thick headed earlier.

adam_777

01-29-2009, 07:01 PM

Also, it would become to lysergic acid, not LSA.

Oops, that's what I meant, clearly not paying enough attention.

Anyway, is everyone just about ready to get back on topic now?

TheHerald

01-29-2009, 07:13 PM

How well would a helium atmosphere work in place of one which is nitrogenous in the reaction Ford was mentioning?

Should work pretty well. The purpouse of the N2 is pretty much to be inert, not to lyse, hydrogenate, and alkylate, 'n well... noble gases are pretty good at being inert. Technically, a bit better than nitrogen.

If you already have a massive industrial chem lab, buying tanks of nitrogen is probably a bit cheaper, unless you synthesize the helium yourself (HI NSA!!)... but if you're doing this in your basement, a tank of helium from the party store is probably cheaper, easier, and requires less chit-chatting about how, oh yes, you just really, really need to do your arc welding under N2 atmosphere to decrease corrosion or something...

If I ever feel like buying a lot of HBWR seeds, though, I may patronize you for a brief summary and continuation extraction.

:D

Y'know, if you've got a good way to isolate lysergic acid itself from veggie tea, you don't have to be quite as gentle on the pH. Might be able to get it down to a relatively simple two-pot synthesis.

Also, sorry for being a bit thick headed earlier.

No worries. It happens.

I'm just hoping our noble moderators can somehow, someday, track down the provenance on a censorship ban so secret, not even the mods forum knows about it. Hmm...

incorporated

01-29-2009, 07:40 PM

Y'know, if you've got a good way to isolate lysergic acid itself from veggie tea...

I was under the assumption that the tea would just have LSA in sol'n. I would be willing to devote some time to finding a means by which the isolation could be accomplished if I could receive some clarification on the above.

Ford Prefect

01-29-2009, 08:16 PM

I'm just hoping our noble moderators can somehow, someday, track down the provenance on a censorship ban so secret, not even the mods forum knows about it. Hmm...

Took me a little while to catch on but I realize now that you were definitely quite banned. Posted a thread in M&A about it and hopefully it'll get lifted soon.

How well would a helium atmosphere work in place of one which is nitrogenous in the reaction Ford was mentioning? I might go ask for my job back at the pharmacy ;x. I remember you mentioned the He thing in your LSA thread (which I regret not saving =\). If I ever feel like buying a lot of HBWR seeds, though, I may patronize you for a brief summary and continuation extraction.

Also, sorry for being a bit thick headed earlier.

Like Joe said helium would be just as dandy. Infact, my wizard has always used helium. He says to keep an eye on your glass so it doesn't float away though. ;)

Psychedelic Chemistry (http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/psychedelicchemistry/chapter7.html) has a nice bit of info on the extraction and hydrolysis.

I made an LSA thread? Or were you talking about someone else?

TheHerald

01-29-2009, 08:43 PM

I was under the assumption that the tea would just have LSA in sol'n.

Normally, yes. (and LSiPA, LSMA, and whatever other alkylamides the plant produced) However, as noted in the original unarchived thread - or more specifically, noted without any sort of verbose explanation of WTF is going on by m'homie Shulgin and quoted - it's also a little pH sensitive.

Which means that flooding the crap out of it with something like H2SO4 (or, hell, SO3, let it form in situ) after filtering veggie matter could leave one with a broth of free lysergic acid and various ammonium sulfates...

I would be willing to devote some time to finding a means by which the isolation could be accomplished if I could receive some clarification on the above.

:) Done!

You might wanna check the solubility of free lysergic acid in low-pH H2O. It looks like it might be a little lipophilic, for all I know.

Of course, decreasing LS-induced aqueous disassociation could also be accomplished in the "first pot" part of such a two-pot by tossing in some methanol and hoping the acid would promote the formation of the methyl ester of the acid...

Either way, there's a chance one can get the desired product to just instantly and automatically precipitate. Nice. Lazy. No effort...

Took me a little while to catch on but I realize now that you were definitely quite banned. Posted a thread in M&A about it and hopefully it'll get lifted soon.

Thanks. You might wanna mail a new password to the email addy associated with that account, though...

...seeing as the old password is now the domain of every internet undesireable who wanted to read my ban message, and all...

I made an LSA thread? Or were you talking about someone else?

Oh. When &t died, I was desperately composing the second half of the message in which I tried to encourage BLTC to engage in organized mass action to flood the world with psychedelics... which involved both encouraging mobs to throw morning glory seeds at every square inch of dirt they could find, and making crystalline alkaloidal extraction from the now-uncontrollable lysergic weed common knowledge.

The third stage - turning easy kitchen-chem LSD prep from "keep this a fucking secret" to "the DEA couldn't control the source materials no matter what the fuck they do" - was going to be done in clandestine communications and development in the chemistry community.

At that point, the LSD would flow like water... but until that happened, I was going to recruit BLTC to make chemically clean solutions of ipomea LSx as common as dandelions...

...just workers of the third eye.

DiamondX

01-29-2009, 08:56 PM

Oh. When &t died, I was desperately composing the second half of the message in which I tried to encourage BLTC to engage in organized mass action to flood the world with psychedelics... which involved both encouraging mobs to throw morning glory seeds at every square inch of dirt they could find, and making crystalline alkaloidal extraction from the now-uncontrollable lysergic weed common knowledge.

The third stage - turning easy kitchen-chem LSD prep from "keep this a fucking secret" to "the DEA couldn't control the source materials no matter what the fuck they do" - was going to be done in clandestine communications and development in the chemistry community.

At that point, the LSD would flow like water... but until that happened, I was going to recruit BLTC to make chemically clean solutions of ipomea LSx as common as dandelions...

...just workers of the third eye.

Was that the one where you put the HBWR in the refrigerator? I'm looking forward to the second half. Are you going to post the first half with it? I still don't have a totse archive.:(

TheHerald

01-29-2009, 09:08 PM

Was that the one where you put the HBWR in the refrigerator?

Yup!!

I'm looking forward to the second half. Are you going to post the first half with it? I still don't have a totse archive.:(

:)

I don't have an archive of that post either, but I could probably retype it. After all, if one takes the entertaining "children's science theater" out of it, it was pretty much just a very short list of things which destroy LSx, combined with a few strategies for working around it...

Ford Prefect

01-29-2009, 10:04 PM

I don't have an archive of that post either, but I could probably retype it. After all, if one takes the entertaining "children's science theater" out of it, it was pretty much just a very short list of things which destroy LSx, combined with a few strategies for working around it...

Please please do!

Jackketch and I are fighting for your account btw. Nobody's sure what happened just yet, but hopefully it's only a matter of time...

Other pills that might be worth looking into: Ercaf, Migranil, Ergomar and Wigraine. I haven't check the price/mg of alkaloid yet but they should all do the trick.

TheHerald

01-29-2009, 10:23 PM

Jackketch and I are fighting for your account btw. Nobody's sure what happened just yet, but hopefully it's only a matter of time...

:) Thanks. Not sure what I can do for ketch, but I might be able to pay ya back real quick here...

It's a level of complexity not too far off from RP/I, really.

1. Set fire to striker pad.

2. Pass smoke through LA solution.

3. ???

4. Lysergic acid anhydride.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosphorus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosphorus_pentoxide

Sure, it's all just untested, shaky theory 'n all... but between overacidifying tea and burning striker pads, LSD MIGHT fall on a level of cooking far, far beneath "chemistry."

Not good for a one- or two-pot, though, unless we can tell whether it would mutilate the dialkylamide like it mutilates an amide. It's obviously unlikely to form the nitrile through hyperdessication, but there's a risk it might do *something* if left in the LSD... so it's probably best to try to extract the lysergic acid anhydride before gassing with diethylamine for great justice. Luckily, removal of phosphorous pentoxide shouldn't be that hard to do...

...but that's currently my best speculative hypotheosis on unblockable OTC LSD synthesis without equipment. Lyse, anhydride, amide... pretty much self-assembling in a very forgiving and labor-unintensive fashion.

Yeah. Eat this, shulgin. Eat this. Not that he actually had too much difficulty either or anything...

stateofhack

01-29-2009, 11:07 PM

Peptide coupling is the way people.

Cheap and still widely avaible :)

Ford Prefect

01-29-2009, 11:17 PM

Peptide coupling is the way people.

Cheap and still widely avaible :)

Any suggestions as far as reagents go? My wizard friend always used DCC in his potions, but he tells me that with DCC alone the acid alpha carbon is apparently quite prone to racemization and epimerization.

Maybe BOP, HBTU or HATU would be preferable? Though quite a bit more expensive. :mad:

stateofhack

01-29-2009, 11:26 PM

I need to do some more reading but IIRC HBTU was the more selective one and the one with the nicer workup and less prone to making toxic by products.

/Not sure tho, leave me a few days and i can confirm it!

JoePedo

01-29-2009, 11:52 PM

...and I'm back in the saddle again...

I need to do some more reading but IIRC HBTU was the more selective one and the one with the nicer workup and less prone to making toxic by products.

Just out of curiosity, any ideas on home synthesis of HBTU with roughly nothing to start with?

Ford Prefect

01-30-2009, 12:15 AM

...and I'm back in the saddle again...

Just out of curiosity, any ideas on home synthesis of HBTU with roughly nothing to start with?

Good to seeya back.

"HBTU/HATU is actually relatively easy to make yourself if you have access to the required chemicals and have pretty good lab skills. To make it, you need oxalyl chloride, teramethylurea, toluene, ether, chloroform, ammonium hexafluorophosphate (or NH4BF4), DCM, HOBt, and triethylamine." (1 (http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/lsd.coupling.agents.html))

That's all I've got, though there's always an easier way. I'll look around.

DEA from DEET? Or how would you propose making our acquiring our amine as unstoppable and amateur-friendly as possible?

Or maybe an ethyl-something and ammonia?

stateofhack

01-30-2009, 12:53 AM

...and I'm back in the saddle again...

Just out of curiosity, any ideas on home synthesis of HBTU with roughly nothing to start with?

Working on it, paper getting and reading :)

JoePedo

01-30-2009, 12:56 AM

"HBTU/HATU is actually relatively easy to make yourself if you have access to...

Hmm. I think I'm going with the flaming distillates of my own piss, so far. I'll take a look at the ref, though, because... well, hey... there IS always an easier way.

DEA from DEET? Or how would you propose making our acquiring our amine as unstoppable and amateur-friendly as possible?

Or maybe an ethyl-something and ammonia?

I was thinking ethan...ol. Quick little fractionated aldehyde, quick little reduction to the amine... or, scattershot with the halide. But mostly, yeast is pretty hard to control; just go fruit-picking late-season...

Ironically, propionic anhydride would work... but, the hoffman rearrangement would only allow one to use it for the monoethylamine. The second ethylation would still require careful ethyl chloride use, or ethaldehyde use, or kinky actions involving vinegar and LAH...

...and it'd be a waste to use propionic anhydride, unless one had no free propionic acid to salt and destructively distill. Incidentally, somewhat possibly distantly-relative to this... there's a number of curious dehydrating reactions of alcohols that are decently selective which might be worth reading. I found it interesting going through simply because of the competing dehydrating agents used - phosphorous pentoxide, acyl halides, and DCC are all used to create bizzare radicals of DMSO...

...I found it an interesting group of compounds to be competing. Incidentally, are there any refs out there as to POI3 as an analog of POCl3 in the formation of acyl halides? LSD could be "easy as RP/I" in yet another way if so... seeing as the main difficulty of POCl3 is getting incompetent chemists - or even competent ones - playing with chlorine gas 'n all. Or even refluxing phosphorous in it...

...the intermediary in HI regeneration could just be a useful precursor to open the Shulgin route to the street.

Ford Prefect

01-30-2009, 02:57 AM

I'm still not sure I've wrapped my head around this tea you're proposing. This isn't morning glory tea, is it? Personally I'd rather fuck around with pills over plant matter any day of the week, but plants do have the uncontrollable aspect to them that makes the drug war seem like a game of connect four with three pieces.

Huh.

King Owl

01-30-2009, 03:06 AM

No no no no no! Fuck man, the LD50 for that stuff is close to 12,000 ug.

Disagree.

Ford Prefect

01-30-2009, 03:24 AM

Disagree.

You do that. Of course science would then have to disagree with you.
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_dose.shtml

sexualjesus

01-30-2009, 03:32 AM

this thread is pretty awesome.
my basic understanding of ergotamine is poisoned maize (corn), i always wondered how easy it would be just to grow corn and poison it after with the poison that turns it into ergotamine, i dont know much about this cafegot but i assume it would be expensive and wouldnt be in large quantities, not that you would need large quantities for a drug thats measured in micrograms.

the herald might be onto something with striker pads, it sounds easy enough that instead of theorising someone could waste a bit of money and actually test it out for shits and giggles.

lsa can be turned into lsd but i cant really trust the legitimacy
Example 1
A suspension is prepared from 5.0 g of isolysergic acid amide in 80 ml of anhydrous methanol; the mixture is cooled to about -50 deg. C. and, under agitation, 40 ml of a 13N solution of hydrogen chloride in anhydrous methanol is added thereto. The clear solution is allowed to warm up to room temperature and further stirred overnight. The primary amount of the thus-formed ester hydrochloride is thus crystallized. By cooling in an ice bath and adding ethyl acetate, the crystallization is completed, and the precipitate is vacuum-filtered.

Yield: 5.2 g (84% of theory) of lysergic acid methyl ester, hydrochloride.

alpha(D) =+94 deg. (0.5% in methanol).

http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/lysergic.amides.html

incorporated

01-30-2009, 03:49 AM

You do that. Of course science would then have to disagree with you.
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_dose.shtml

How does that make thumbprints possible?

Ford Prefect

01-30-2009, 03:54 AM

. . .

First of all, you've got to remember that ergot is a poison. It is very bad for your life. I personally would never attempt to culture it because I value my limbs too much but I suppose it could be done.

Cafergot is about a dollar a pill, meaning $1/mg ergotamine. 50 cents if you buy bulk. Pricey, but unavoidable. HBWR seeds will cost you just as much, if not more. And in the long run every mg of ergotamine WILL become a couple of LSD.

Second, check here (http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/psychedelicchemistry/chapter7.html) for a decent hydrolysis. You'd have better luck with that than trying to convert it to the methyl ester, I reckon.

Night y'all.

adam_777

01-30-2009, 12:17 PM

i always wondered how easy it would be just to grow corn and poison it after with the poison that turns it into ergotamine

I'd definitely not do that!

Ergot poisoning makes your limbs fall off and other such nasties.

As for the Cafergot, I had a quick look and seen some for 26p per pill, which is pretty damn good I'd say.

It seems that pills could indeed be the future of acid! :)

sexualjesus

01-30-2009, 12:57 PM

I'd definitely not do that!

Ergot poisoning makes your limbs fall off and other such nasties.

As for the Cafergot, I had a quick look and seen some for 26p per pill, which is pretty damn good I'd say.

It seems that pills could indeed be the future of acid! :)

ill hit up some malls tomorow to find the prices of cafergot, but if its as easy as ford says it is i say its time to make some fucking acid
ergotamine + NaOH -> lysergic acid
DEET + NaOH -> diethylamine
lysergic acid + diethylamine + peptitde couple reagent -> LSD-25
i have the naoh so tomorow ill shop around for prices on deet and this cafegot and then ill post, dear god im high right now i really do hope ill be able to read this peice of paper i wrote for myself.

evil[apostrophe]tree

01-30-2009, 01:14 PM

can someone tell me if i'm understanding this right?

so you hydrolysize your ergotamine and that breaks it at the nitrogen bond between the two 'halves' of it?

you then peptide couple DEA onto the LSA hydrate, right? so you'd need a peptide coupling reagent that would bond a R-NH to a R-COOH, right?

incorporated

01-30-2009, 01:34 PM

tree;74745']so you'd need a peptide coupling reagent that would bond a R-NH to a R-COOH, right?

I'm pretty sure that's the definition of a peptide coupling reagent.

Irukanji

01-30-2009, 01:47 PM

You can buy tanks of argon for arc welding. Im almost sure(unless i've become chemtarded all of a sudden), that it's a noble gas. I think you can buy 1kg cylinders for $10-15....

Von Bass

01-30-2009, 03:02 PM

You can buy tanks of argon for arc welding. Im almost sure(unless i've become chemtarded all of a sudden), that it's a noble gas. I think you can buy 1kg cylinders for $10-15....

Yeah argon is the ideal, IMO, and fairly easily acquired.

I like the sound of how available ergotamine is. It's just pretty damn obvious what your intentions are if you're ordering thousands of cafergot pills, and if it starts to pick up, that's the most obvious thing for an enterprising gentleman to watch should he or she wish to find the source.

micro

01-30-2009, 03:35 PM

Yes argon should work, and it is available rather everywhere otc no questions asked.
Hell, my local hardware store sells it in 1kg disposable cylinders.

Hmm, I could even check the price out while I'm at it. I have some hardware shopping to do anyways.

JoePedo

01-30-2009, 03:56 PM

Disagree.

Likewise. Unless you're a rabbit with anxiety disorders, it's way, way less toxic than that...

This isn't morning glory tea, is it?

It is! Of course, it's mostly being discussed because of the existance of a prior thread on crystal extraction from MG, but hey...

Personally I'd rather fuck around with pills over plant matter any day of the week, but plants do have the uncontrollable aspect to them that makes the drug war seem like a game of connect four with three pieces.

That they do! 'n while I wholeheartedly advocate pills over the issues of volume of extraction, which is crucially important in the amount of bitchwork and difficulty you'll be facing, ipomea does have one little advantage, little-known, that increases its attractiveness : leaves and stems are fully extractable.

This can quickly make it a much more lucrative target, as one or two of the weeds in your backyard magically turn into a few cubic feet of compressed, extractable vegetable matter and 10-50mg LSx instead of 2-10mg from a few cubic inches of painfully-harvested seed...

...the holy grail, of course, is ergot itself, commonly grown in plastic milk jugs filled with rye soup in the wholesale trade and capable of yielding 2-3g/l ergot alkaloids with enough careful work... but... the fact that you don't exactly want to drink it or bathe in it is sort of well covered in this thread. Gangrene is only fun when it's happening to someone else, 'n all.

So, I'd say they're all viable in surplus, each with advantages and disadvantages. Pills have the easiest extraction from the lowest volume, but run the risk of the DEA wondering why offshore pharmacies have shipped you 250g of ergotamine tartarate in the last 3 years. Ergot has fucktarded yields capable of supplying an entire hemisphere from a foot locker, but is signifigantly more critically dependent on lab saftey. MG has moderate yields with moderate effort - almost identical to any other wildcrafted vegetative alkaloid extraction, in fact - and while there's otherwise nothing especially advantageous or disadvantageous about it, it gains its advantage from the ease of aqquiring 50-lb bales of extractable, decently-yielding lysergic source material with jack shit for cost, effort, restrictability, difficulty in sourcing, or unwanted attention...

Personally, I lean towards the ipomea route just because it's so succeptible to leveraging the masses in a "johnny appleseed" direct-action pro-LSD protest with brutal results. I'm all down for mass entheogen-related social revolution... but if I just wanted to do a once in a lifetime nanoscale with the least work, I'd probably go with one box of migraine meds 'n call it good...

But... yes. I'm biased. I have a conflict of interest. My vision for the world involves millions of kilograms of uncontrolled lysergic acid source all over the world coupled with idiot-proof LSD routes. All three have viability, and each has a different set of advantages and disadvantages. Just pick the one easiest for your situation.

Leshrac

01-30-2009, 04:09 PM

"HBTU/HATU is actually relatively easy to make yourself if you have access to the required chemicals and have pretty good lab skills. To make it, you need oxalyl chloride, teramethylurea, toluene, ether, chloroform, ammonium hexafluorophosphate (or NH4BF4), DCM, HOBt, and triethylamine."

3/4 of these products being mighty expensive it would be cheaper to just buy the damn LSD...

Von Bass

01-30-2009, 04:11 PM

Thoughts on a nice clean lysergic acid extraction? I was under the impression that there's a whole soup of different lysergic based compounds in there, this indicates a large chromatography column might be a good place to start. But to get to an initial, fairly clean, preferably crystalline extract? Standard aqueous extraction, base & removal with a NP?

3/4 of these products being mighty expensive it would be cheaper to just buy the damn LSD...

Depends how much LSD you want :p

evil[apostrophe]tree

01-30-2009, 06:12 PM

costs $60 for 300 cf of argon...

ballon helium wont work, it's only 5% helium, however, welding gas suppliers have helium and i'm pretty sure it's pure...

so you'd wanna column chromatography your lsa crystals before the peptide coupling and then before or after salting? because isnt salting the LSD really important?

Ford Prefect

01-30-2009, 07:50 PM

All three have viability, and each has a different set of advantages and disadvantages. Just pick the one easiest for your situation.

Well put. Pills are an opportunity that might not last for very long, so I'd like to see as many people trying to get in on the action as possible in the short term.

EDIT:

Just a heads up people, because I've seen a bit of confusion...

This is lysergic acid amide or LSA or ergine:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/01/Ergine.png

And this is lysergic acid:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/80/Lysergic_acid_chemical_structure.png

Similar name, different chemicals.

evil[apostrophe]tree

01-30-2009, 07:53 PM

so LSA goes to LA in basic solution, right? and the LSA extraction from mgs would be similar to a DMT extraction with a cold anyh solvent xtalization, right?

JoePedo

01-30-2009, 08:27 PM

Thoughts on a nice clean lysergic acid extraction?

Yeah. Avoid the "larval" stage...

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/113336121/abstract

...not that the clavines are all that signifigant a contaminant normally...

http://www.zauberpilz.com/lsd/lsdfaq/lsdfaq.htm

Frankly, I wouldn't worry all that much about it. The clavines have a very interesting chemical property - they are remarkably unlikely to undergo amide lysis. Not being a lysergic acid amide, 'n all...

This would make it very unlikely for them to do...

the residual solids dissolved in 50 mL of 1% aqueous ammonia, and this solution was acidified as before with 2.5 N H2SO4. The precipitated solids were removed by filtration

^^ this. It's not an acid. Probably shouldn't dissolve in the ammonia in the first place, either.

(that line from shulgin pretty much answers the question about "performing the lysis in the crude tea," as well. Add acid to tea. Clean lysergic acid will precipitate. Solubilities solved, and are as projected).

In fact, that whole first paragraph is a godsend for how easy this is. Just in case anyone wants to read it...

http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/tihkal/tihkal26.shtml

...god damn. This is easy as pie.

But, yeah... clavines won't undergo amide lysis. Ergo, they will not perform as if they had.

JoePedo

01-30-2009, 08:48 PM

tree;75689']so you'd wanna column chromatography your lsa crystals before the peptide coupling and then before or after salting? because isnt salting the LSD really important?

Well, if you're still working with amide derivatives, it's definately before coupling the diethylamide, yes... personally, if I were going to go column, I'd want to be doing so on the precipitated and washed lysergic acid. 'cause, well, that's the natural stopping point, right before you take nice, clean lysergic acid and perform the final reaction.

As for post-rxn workup... yeah. I'd chromatograph the salt. Not the base. Bit of a bitch, though - UV-flourescent but also heavily UV sensitive. Probably better off just seperating into 10ml fractions and Erhliching an aliquot 'till you find the one you want. Definately want a long thin column for that...

Of course, one could just take the easy way. It's actually rather hard to force two seperate molecules to cocrystallize into a single coherent crystal. ("vaguely crystalline mush" is easy. One coherent shard not so much)

Might just wanna skip a lot of work and pick out ten-sheet shards from the cold ethanol.

In fact, it amazes me just how little god damn workup the whole procedure requires. Lysis is precipitation at high purity. A simple condensation (shulgin's route is a nice one-pot) and a single recrystallization, and it's done in high purity. Hmm...

Nice.

DiamondX

01-31-2009, 12:28 AM

In fact, it amazes me just how little god damn workup the whole procedure requires. Lysis is precipitation at high purity. A simple condensation (shulgin's route is a nice one-pot) and a single recrystallization, and it's done in high purity. Hmm...

Nice.

Pics?

incorporated

01-31-2009, 03:52 AM

Or maybe at least break it down just a bit more, perhaps with a little summary of the LSA sol'n from before? I promise I'll save it this time!

This is all making me want to :fap:

sexualjesus

01-31-2009, 12:51 PM

hey guys i went down town and saw the migraine pills, didnt get to the hardware store but im sure deet would be pretty easy to get, considering my limited biochem background i wanna throw my full ass into this, im willing to buy the stuff and see where it takes me but itd be good to know it has a chance to work and of course a basic recipe i guess.

lets keep this thread goin its great for the start of the new flaks and beakers (well beat those bastards in drug-forums yet) :D

Ford Prefect

01-31-2009, 08:21 PM

Ekstaz

02-01-2009, 02:22 AM

incorporated

02-01-2009, 05:37 PM

This thread makes me wish I knew more about organic chem. I'm picking it all apart and looking it up, but I'm still pretty much in the dark so I can't lend any advice. I can however lend my eyeballs and interest, which you seem to have taken against my will, haha.

This kind of thread is exactly what the psychedelic/chemistry community needs. Godspeed!

The way JP explained it, you don't even need to understand organic chem.

A friend of a friend bought five bags of Morning Glory seeds today. He said he will plant them later this month and harvest the leaves continuously until he has a few kgs, dry. He's looking into the argon tank, that definitely sounds like the way to go, especially if balloon helium is only 5%. He also has a really good glove box in which the reaction could run. He's hoping this will be a good summer.

How regulated do you folks imagine the peptide couplers are?

Edit: Also, looking for DEET, the natural choice is insect repellent. The guy sent an email to a bug spray distributor inquiring as to the remaining components of the 28.5% DEET bug spray. He'll be looking up bp's and seeing if he can distill the DEET out when he gets a response.. Any other ideas, in the mean time?

King Owl

02-02-2009, 12:37 AM

evil[apostrophe]tree

02-02-2009, 05:51 AM

http://www.amazon.com/Cutter-100%25-DEET-Insect-Repellent/dp/B000O8QANY/ref=pd_sbs_hpc_njs_2

100% DEET

so for the DEET to DEA you just mix with an eqimolar amount of NaOH and distill the DEA off?

so the synth would go

a/b of morning glory tea with cold acetone recrystalization --> column chromatography of morning glory extract using maybe DCM as the eluent, maybe MeOH, any input jp? [literature i've read says there are two long wave UV visable bands, they are lsa and iso-lsa, the brighter one being lsa] --> hydrolysis of lsa in MeOH with NaOH leaving lysergic acid --> peptide coupling with reagent of choice [under argon] --> chromatography [again MeOh as the eluent or what? thikal list benzene and carbon tet as the eluent but i wouldnt wanna fuck with that]--->salt with d-tartaric acid [watch by the fed IIRC] and then cold MeOH recrystalizations untiul desired purity is achieved

no?

oh shit, here's some stuff i wanted you guys to see

http://forums.mycotopia.net/misc-entheogens/9372-peptide-coupler-method-lsd-production.html

this link looks kinda dumb but it's a good copy pasta, it says do the whole lysergic acid --> lsd under DCM and argon.

http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/lsd.coupling.agents.html

"1eq. LSA is dissolved in a suitable solvent (must be fairly dry) at RT, 1.05 eq BOP-reagent is added. 2eq. of diethylamine is added and the rxn is stirred at RT until it goes to completion (15min-2hr). The solvent is removed under vacuum and the residue partitioned between EtOAc (or other suitable solvent) and saturated NaHCO3 (or NH4OH). The layers were separated and the organics were washed with NaHCO3 (or NH4OH), H2O, saturated NaCl, dried over MgSO4, filtered and concentrated in vacuo to remove the solvent and excess diethylamine. The crude LSD, which should be fairly pure, is then further purified by chromatography and converted to the tartrate salt."

now that says straight from lsa with no hydrolysis, do they really mean lysergic acid?

everyones favorite search engine reveals vendors of peptide coupling agents, I found vedors of Py-BOP and BOP. the limited research i've done says dont use BOP as it forms carcinogens.

hey, any college students with access to some e-library shit wanna let me onto the database in the name of acid?

Ford Prefect

02-02-2009, 06:00 AM

I'd use excess NaOH...

aaand if for some reason you can't isolate some tartaric acid, there's always LSD citrate.
http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/citricacid.txt

I've got something comin' friends. Be patient/excuse my preoccupation.

nshanin

02-02-2009, 06:14 AM

Tartaric acid can be fairly easily made from cream of tartar. Also, I'm seeing a few low pH reactions, wtf?:confused:

gastriclavage

02-03-2009, 10:34 AM

All of this is very exciting for this bee here, seems all that will stand in his way is moneys :p

Only a matter of time before the US and UK are riddled hehe

Then we can all :fap: in the sunshine :D

Irukanji

02-03-2009, 12:32 PM

Im sure you can buy citric acid in the shops, right next to tartaric acid(thats what the label said....wtf?)/cream of tartar.

gastriclavage

02-04-2009, 06:51 AM

So from what this'ere bee can gather,

If we extract ET from pills and hydrolyse with NaOH under a steady stream of argon and then chromatograph accordingly we have nice Lysergic Acid Hydrate.

The rest writes itself then? 'cause the peptide coupling part seems quite easy as long as light is kept to a minimum and the DEA is easy, or can be brought online by a trusty FOAF in this Bee's case mebbe?

Would any coupling reagent work, I have my eyes on HATU due to it's relatively low cost, looks like once pills are received it's not a big deal at all,

In my dreams at least ;)

How would one recommend seperating caffeine and ergotamine? Just run a column? Or is there an easier alternative?

The chromatography in a writeup I read mentioned alumina, will silica slurry in say pet ether/DCM mix not suffice?

Oh and :fap: to this thread, It's the best one on Z so far :D

Ford Prefect

02-05-2009, 06:34 AM

If we extract ET from pills and hydrolyse with NaOH under a steady stream of argon and then chromatograph accordingly we have nice Lysergic Acid Hydrate.

Oui.

The rest writes itself then? 'cause the peptide coupling part seems quite easy as long as light is kept to a minimum

Oui.

and the DEA is easy, or can be brought online by a trusty FOAF in this Bee's case mebbe?

Non. Not the easiest chemical, it turns out. I'm on the case, but not much liking what I've been finding so far. Long reaction times, mixed yields... But never fear, it'll bee figured out. I wouldn't suggest buying it personally, but that's just me.

Would any coupling reagent work, I have my eyes on HATU due to it's relatively low cost, looks like once pills are received it's not a big deal at all,

"1eq. LSA is dissolved in a suitable solvent(must be fairly dry) at RT, 1.05 eq HBTU/HATU is added. 2eq. of diethylamine is added and the rxn is stirred at RT until it goes to completion (15min-2hr). The solvent is removed under vacuum and the residue partitioned between EtOAc (or other suitable solvent) and saturated NaHCO3 (or NH4OH). The layers were separated and the organics were washed with NaHCO3 (or NH4OH), H2O, saturated NaCl, dried over MgSO4, filtered and concentrated in vacuo to remove the solvent and excess diethylamine. The crude LSD, which should be fairly pure, is then further purified by chromatography and converted to the tartrate salt." (1 (http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/lsd.coupling.agents.html))

The chromatography in a writeup I read mentioned alumina, will silica slurry in say pet ether/DCM mix not suffice?

Don't see why not.

Oh and :fap: to this thread, It's the best one on Z so far :D

:jazz_trump:

Dark Lord

02-05-2009, 06:33 PM

Really great. Thanks community:tt1:

incorporated

02-17-2009, 05:37 PM

nshanin

02-18-2009, 02:46 AM

Just to get this thread back on the front page: Since LSA has 3-10% the potency of LSD (1 (http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsa/lsa_dose.shtml)) and it differs by having a diethylamine group where LSA has, simply, NH2, would increasing the length of the alkyl chains bring about an even greater potency?

Not necessarily. Pharmacology is not the same sort of science as say, physics where, for example, the laws of gravity still apply if you're on another planet, the constants just differ. However, just using two examples that popped into my head, increasing the alkyl chain on the simple tryptamine series (DMT, etc.) will decrease potency. However, with cannabimimetic tryptamines like the JWH series, pentyl>hexyl>butyl>heptyl>propyl, which is a SAR that nobody could have predicted. The point is that drugs act on specific substrates and some are a better fit than others, and sometimes you want the "just right" amount of carbons on your compound to create the desired effects. One carbon too many in the JWH series decreases potency by an order of magnitude even though the general trend is that increasing substituents increase potency (at least up to amyl).

Short answer: No.

dawn_of_devastation

02-19-2009, 04:47 AM

People these days are just looking to have a good time, not an eye opening experience.

I have to disagree with you on that. There will always be people disinterested in psychedelics, and people that can't get enough. There are a lot of idiots that just want to get fucked up, but they'll get bored of that/die eventually. Not trying to sound like a capitalist pig here, but if marketed properly, acid has the possibility of making a comeback

delusional_reality

02-19-2009, 08:31 PM

and if you spill just a little bit on your it absorbs through the skin and you die.

I disagree, LSD-25 is not normally active transdermally, The creator of ''Bromo Dragonfly'', David Nichols, seems to back that claim up.

Read and learn:

http://www.erowid.org/general/conferences/conference_mindstates4_nichols.shtml

incorporated

02-25-2009, 01:30 PM

A good buddy was telling me about ow he has a friend who works in the wheatbelt and every year winds up with about a kilo of unsaleable ergot-infested grain... He's been doing some reading but would like to know if anyone else has any advice on culturing? Would he need to extract the ergot from the grain and innoculate a sterile growth medium, or could he jsut incubate the grain at the right conditions and wait for life to bloom back up?

#3: Ergot culture

NOTE: contact with ergot compounds can be dangerous. Only after a
basic understanding of the techniques employed in the handling of
dangerous or poisonous organisms is reached should one proceed with
the culture of ergot.

The need for absolute sterility cannot be overstressed. Consult
any elementary text on bacteriology for the correct equipment and
procedures. Avoid prolonged contact with ergot compounds, as they
are poisonous and can be fatal.

A) Get a source for Claviceps Purpurea fungus

If no source can be found, you can make a field trip to obtain
it from rye or other cereal grasses. Rye grass is the best
choice. The ergot will appear as a blackish growth on the
tops of the rye where the seeds are. They are approximately
the same shape as the seeds and are referred to as "heads" or
"ergot". From these heads or ergot sprout the Claviceps
Purpurea fungi.

They have long stems and bulbous heads when viewed under a
strong glass or microscope. It is these that must be removed
from the ergot, free from contamination, and used to inoculate
the culture material.

B) Make a culture medium

Combine the following ingredients in about 500 ml distilled
water in a 2 L small-neck flask:

Sucrose 100 g

Chick pea meal 50 g
Calcium nitrate 1 g
Ca(NO3)2
Monopotassium phosphate 0.25 g
KH2PO4
Magnesium sulphate 0.25 g
MgSO4
Potassium chloride 0.125 g
KCl
Ferrous sulphate heptahydrate 8.34 mg
FeSO47H20
Zinc sulphate heptahydrate 3.44 mg
ZnSO47H20

Add water to make up one liter

Adjust to pH 4 with ammonia solution and citric acid

Sterilize by autoclaving

C) Make a culture

Inoculate the sterilized medium with Claviceps Purpurea under
sterile conditions, stopper with sterilized cotton and
incubate for two weeks, periodically testing and maintaining
pH 4. After two weeks a surface culture can be seen on the
medium. Large-scale production of the fungus can now begin.

D) Large-scale production

Obtain several ordinary 1 gallon jugs.

Place a two-hole stopper in the necks of the jugs.

Fit a short (6 inch) tube in one hole, leaving two inches
above the stopper. Fit a short rubber tube to this. Fill a
small (500 ml) Erlenmeyer flask with a dilute solution of
sodium hypochlorite (NaClO). Extend a glass tube from the
rubber so the end is immersed in the hypochlorite.

Fit a long glass tube in the other stopper hole. It must
reach near the bottom of the jug and have about two inches
showing above the stopper. Attach a rubber tube to the glass
tube and fit a short glass tube to the end of the rubber tube.

Fill a large glass tube (1" x 6") with sterile cotton and fit
one-hole stoppers in the ends. Fit the small glass tube in
the end of the rubber tube into one stopper of the large tube.
Fit another small glass tube into the other stopper. A rubber
tube is connected to this and attached to small air pump
(obtained from a tropical fish store).

With this aeration equipment you can assure a supply of clean
air to the Claviceps Purpurea fungus while maintaining a
sterile environment inside the solution.

Dismantle the aerators. Place all the glass tubes, rubber
tubes, stoppers and cotton in a paper bag, seal tightly with
wire staples and sterilize in an autoclave.

Fill the 1-gallon jugs 2/3 to 3/4 full with the culture medium
and autoclave.

While these things are being sterilized, homogenize in a
blender the culture already obtained and use it to inoculate
the material in the gallon jugs. The blender must be sterile.

EVERYTHING must be sterile.

Assemble the aerators. Start the pumps. A slow bubbling in
each jug will provide enough oxygen to the cultures. A single
pump may be connected to several filters.

Let everything sit at room temperature (25 C) in a dark place
(never expose ergot alkaloids to bright light - they will
decompose) for a period of ten days.

After ten days, adjust the culture to 1% ethanol using 95%
ethanol under sterile conditions. Maintain growth for another
two weeks.

E) Extract ergot alkaloids

After a total of 24 days growth period, the culture should be
considered mature. Make the culture acidic with tartaric acid
and homogenize in a blender for one hour.

Adjust to pH 9 with ammonium hydroxide and extract with
benzene or chloroform/iso-butanol mixture.

Extract again with alcoholic tartaric acid and evaporate in a
vacuum to dryness.

The dry material is the salt (the tartaric acid salt, the
tartrate) of the ergot alkaloids, and is stored in this form
because the free basic material is too unstable and decomposes
readily in the presence of light, heat, moisture, and air.

To recover the free base for extraction of the amide or
synthesis to LSD, make the tartrate basic with ammonia to pH
9, extract with chloroform, and evaporate in vacuo.

I can't speak on the effectiveness, but I figured it might help. Source (http://www.matarese.com/matarese-files/4444/make/index.html)

Ford Prefect

02-25-2009, 09:41 PM

I figure deet -> dea might be a waste of time.

ethanol + sulfric acid + hbr -> ethyl bromide

ethyl bromide + ammonia -> dea

eaasier, cheaper, better yields...

Preperation of Ethylamine and Diethylamine.pdf - 0.25MB (http://www.zshare.net/download/561795640d3bd4b5/)

If sumone wanted to do a lettle bit o' research as to the best means of extracting the goods stuff from cafergot I'm be happy to compile it into a total synthesis. It should be simple enough, I just don't have time atm.

ballucks

04-27-2009, 05:15 AM

I cant find hbr(hydrobromic acid?) for less than 100 dollars for 100 ml. How is this going to be less expensive.

Any updates?

Also your link is dead.

Hydroponichronic

04-27-2009, 08:39 PM

I cant find hbr(hydrobromic acid?) for less than 100 dollars for 100 ml. How is this going to be less expensive.

Any updates?

Also your link is dead.
Ah...HBr:

NaBr (from ye olde pool shoppe) + 96% H2SO4 (from teh HW store, you know the brand ;)) --> A fuck ton of ~anhydrous HBr gas, bubble-able into water for whatever conc soln you need. Also, it might work just as well to use chloroethane to pump out the Et2N, which At various times in the past, ethyl chloride has also been produced from ethanol and hydrochloric acid

BTW, this thread's been dead for a bit, but IIRC, isn't there some route to DEA from EtOH and ammonia in reflux? Or possibly we build an aldehyde column and use EtO + NH3.

IDK, whatever works...

Ford Prefect

04-30-2009, 06:38 PM

IIRC, isn't there some route to DEA from EtOH and ammonia in reflux? Or possibly we build an aldehyde column and use EtO + NH3.

I'm PRETTY sure the EtOH + NH4 route is only feasible on an industrial scale. I've also heard the EtCl method is sluggish and no fun at home either, but don't quote me on that. I think they've had some progress on SM in the DEET hydrolysis though, and really, the ethyl bromide procedure isn't too bad either. Especially on a small scale.

It's been a while since I've seen this thing. What is this thread about again? :confused:

ALSO: I've decided that despite being a villainous chemical hydrazine is the best OTC at home method for making our LSA and DEA best of friends. Personally I'd rather buy some BOP or some shit, but N2H4 is really just too uncontrollably makeable at home to discount entirely.

Shall we put together a step-by-step Zoklet exclusive at home and OTC complete synthesis of LSD-25 when the morning glory thread is done?

I think yus. :hypnohai:

Hydroponichronic

05-01-2009, 12:32 AM

I'm PRETTY sure the EtOH + NH4 route is only feasible on an industrial scale. I've also heard the EtCl method is sluggish and no fun at home either, but don't quote me on that. I think they've had some progress on SM in the DEET hydrolysis though, and really, the ethyl bromide procedure isn't too bad either. Especially on a small scale.
Bummer. I figured this might be the case. No worries, EtBr is not hard.
It's been a while since I've seen this thing. What is this thread about again? :confused:
It was about weather LSD is a thing of the past. Take a guess at the conclusion it reached. lol
ALSO: I've decided that despite being a villainous chemical hydrazine is the best OTC at home method for making our LSA and DEA best of friends. Personally I'd rather buy some BOP or some shit, but N2H4 is really just too uncontrollably makeable at home to discount entirely.
:confused: I know how you make it, but how do you use it?
Shall we put together a step-by-step Zoklet exclusive at home and OTC complete synthesis of LSD-25 when the morning glory thread is done?

I think yus. :hypnohai:
I think yus as well

Ford Prefect

05-01-2009, 01:02 AM

:confused: I know how you make it, but how do you use it?

I suppose something like...

"Chill all reagents and have ice handy. Dissolve 2.82 g hydrazine rapidly in 100 ml 0.1 N ice-cold HCl using an ice bath to keep the reaction vessel at 0 C. 100 ml ice-cold 0.1 N NaNO2 is added and after 2 to 3 minutes vigorous stirring, 130 ml more HCl is added dropwise with vigorous stirring again in an ice bath. After 5 minutes, neutralise the solution with NaHCO3 saturated sol. and extract with ether. Remove the aqueous solution and try to dissolve the gummy substance in ether. Adjust the ether solution by adding 3 g diethylamine per 300 ml ether extract. Allow to stand in the dark, gradually warming up to 20 C over a period of 24 hours. Evaporate in vacuum and treat as indicated in the purification section for conversion of iso-lysergic amides to lysergic acid amides."

hxxp://www.egodeath.com/lsdsynth.htm

I think yus as well

Awesome.

It'll be eppppic.

HeaT

05-04-2009, 05:52 AM

Ford Prefect

05-05-2009, 02:32 AM

For those of you interested in hydrazides and such, here's Hoffman's original patent

http://www.google.com/patents?id=W4hQAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4&dq=2090429&source=gbs_summary_r&cad=0_0#PPA2,M1

Thx.

Here es a couple more of his-

http://www.evilshare.com/0b127ab0-8a6f-102c-8cae-0030489aabc6
http://www.evilshare.com/0b0b811a-8a6f-102c-8cae-0030489aabc6

Though I reckon the Kemp procedure might be slightly better for your average clandestine chemist, as I believe it can be preformed upon any ergot derived amide and not just lysergic acid. Worth a look I suppose.

...

Uh... what about forming the lithium salt of lysergic acid via KOH, and treating with two molar equivalents of sulfuric anhydride, followed by an excess of diethylamine?

HeaT

05-05-2009, 02:33 PM

Thx.

Here es a couple more of his-

http://www.evilshare.com/0b127ab0-8a6f-102c-8cae-0030489aabc6
http://www.evilshare.com/0b0b811a-8a6f-102c-8cae-0030489aabc6

Though I reckon the Kemp procedure might be slightly better for your average clandestine chemist, as I believe it can be preformed upon any ergot derived amide and not just lysergic acid. Worth a look I suppose.

...

Uh... what about forming the lithium salt of lysergic acid via KOH, and treating with two molar equivalents of sulfuric anhydride, followed by an excess of diethylamine?

I'd just about rather fuck with hydrazine than lithium. Well, I guess that wouldnt be bad at all, if its as straightforward as it sounds...
Has someone posted the paper on using DCC ghetto style?

this one is a little more thorough.... he uses HOBt or HOSu along with DCC, mentioning the problem of epimerization without, but also the possibility to use only DCC

http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/lsd.coupling.agents.html

this one uses PyBOP, a bit more pricey, but when you really thing about it a gram of peptide coupler makes ~a gram of lsd, which is ten thousand doses..... one thing i dont like is that it only references this Nichols bro (Nichols et. al 2002), and i'm too lazy to find that to reference, as i'm posting from bed on my phone. However, I'd like to mention that the do have a DEA synth on this page, and yes, they say "add NaOH to DEET, distill DEA into dilute HCl, bam"

http://forums.mycotopia.net/misc-entheogens/9372-peptide-coupler-method-lsd-production.html

dont ask me why, but i'm partial to the DCC HOSu method. followed by chromatography of course

Ford Prefect

05-05-2009, 03:46 PM

I'd just about rather fuck with hydrazine than lithium. Well, I guess that wouldnt be bad at all, if its as straightforward as it sounds...

Frankly, since the advent of peptide coupling I hardly think ANY of the other methods are worth looking at. That being said, I find preparation one (http://www.egodeath.com/lsdsynth.htm) in "Psychedelic Guide to the Preparation of the Eucharist" mildly interesting, but only because it uses any amide, or lysergic acid as starting material.

If somebody can explain the reasoning behind adding water to a solution containing hydrazine anhydride though I'd love to hear it.

Has someone posted the paper on using DCC ghetto style?

Nah, post up.

this one uses PyBOP, a bit more pricey, but when you really thing about it a gram of peptide coupler makes ~a gram of lsd, which is ten thousand doses..... one thing i dont like is that it only references this Nichols bro (Nichols et. al 2002), and i'm too lazy to find that to reference, as i'm posting from bed on my phone.

You can get PyBOP for about one to two dollars a gram. Not too bad mate. Be keen on checking out the Nichols ref as well, it'd be sweet to see this procedure performed on slightly smaller scale (ergot ain't cheap).

However, I'd like to mention that the do have a DEA synth on this page, and yes, they say "add NaOH to DEET, distill DEA into dilute HCl, bam"

I'd question the validity of that synth, considering it's more than likely the author has never preformed any of it himself.

Luls, reminds me why I don't post on WD.

Ford Prefect

05-06-2009, 05:11 PM

Double post:

one thing i dont like is that it only references this Nichols bro (Nichols et. al 2002)

The only thing I could find by Nichols in 2002 related to LSD...

Lysergamides of Isomeric 2,4-Dimethylazetidines Map the Binding Orientation of the Diethylamide Moiety in the Potent Hallucinogenic Agent N,N-Diethyllysergamide (LSD)

David E. Nichols,* Stewart Frescas, Danuta Marona-Lewicka, and Deborah M. Kurrasch-Orbaugh
Department of Medicinal Chemistry and Molecular Pharmacology, School of Pharmacy and Pharmacal Sciences, Purdue University, West Lafayette, Indiana 47907
J. Med. Chem., 2002, 45 (19), pp 4344–4349
DOI: 10.1021/jm020153s
Publication Date (Web): September 5, 2002
Copyright © 2002 American Chemical Society

Reagents: PyBOP, 2,4-dimethylazetidine, CH2Cl2, iPr2EtN. ...

Abstract

Lysergic acid amides were prepared from (R,R)-(−)-, (S,S)-(+)-, and cis-2,4-dimethyl azetidine. The dimethylazetidine moiety is considered here to be a rigid analogue of diethylamine, and thus, the target compounds are all conformationally constrained analogues of the potent hallucinogenic agent, N,N-diethyllysergamide, LSD-25. Pharmacological evaluation showed that (S,S)-(+)-2,4-dimethylazetidine gave a lysergamide with the highest LSD-like behavioral activity in the rat two lever drug discrimination model that was slightly more potent than LSD itself. This same diastereomer also had the highest affinity and functional potency at the rat serotonin 5-HT2A receptor, the presumed target for hallucinogenic agents, and a receptor affinity profile in a panel of screens that was most similar to that of LSD itself. Both cis- and the (R,R)-trans-dimethylazetidines gave lysergamides that were less potent in all relevant assays. The finding that the S,S-dimethylazetidine gave a lysergamide with pharmacology most similar to LSD indicates that the N,N-diethyl groups of LSD optimally bind when they are oriented in a conformation distinct from that observed in the solid state by X-ray crystallography. The incorporation of isomeric dialkylazetidines into other biologically active molecules may be a useful strategy to model the active conformations of dialkylamines and dialkylamides.

...

Anybody able to find something better or want to grab a full copy?

darkus

05-06-2009, 05:27 PM

I know this thread is old, but since it was bumped I had to address something (which has probably already been addressed.)

if you spill just a little bit on your it absorbs through the skin and you die.

lolwut. What highly educated, professional chemist do you know who synthesizes without utmost care and safety? Aside from meth cooks, that is.

its not the most profitable of drugs.

Are you kidding? LSD has some of the highest profit margins of any drug on the market. Not only that, but it's by far the easiest to transport and conceal. Also, the demand is still very high.

People these days are just looking to have a good time, not an eye opening experience. That said, I LOVE acid and wish there were more labs around. Sadly though, its time has passed (stock up while you still can).

The acid/tripper culture is still alive and very well, and it's not going anywhere. At the right places, LSD is not in short supply and can be found without even looking. Just because a culture stays out of the spotlight doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Zip

05-06-2009, 05:49 PM

want to grab a full copy?

http://www.sendspace.com/file/qjnty3

Ford Prefect

05-06-2009, 07:44 PM

Synthesis of Lysergamides. General Method. Lysergic
acid monohydrate (obtained from NIDA) (200 mg, 0.75 mmol),
PyBOP11 (426 mg, 0.82 mmol), and the appropriate 2,4-
dimethylazetidine (109 mg, 0.9 mmol) were suspended in 20
mL of CH2Cl2. Diisopropylethylamine (193 mg, 1.5 mmol) was
added, and the reaction was stirred for 3 h. The reaction was
then quenched by the addition of 20 mL of 7.5 M concentrated
NH4OH, the CH2Cl2 layer was separated, and the aqueous
phase was extracted with 10 mL of CH2Cl2. The organic layers
were combined and washed with H2O (2 × 30 mL) and brine
(15 mL) and then dried (MgSO4). Filtration and solvent
removal by rotary evaporation under reduced lighting, followed
by drying under high vacuum, produced a light golden foam.
This crude product was then subjected to purification by
centrifugal thin layer preparative chromatography (Chroma-
totron, Harrison Research) over a silica rotor and elution with
4:1 CH2Cl2/hexane under an N2-ammonia atmosphere. The
faster-moving blue fluorescent band was collected, and the
solvent was removed under vacuum in the dark. The normal
lysergamides were then dissolved in tert-BuOH and combined
with 0.5 equiv of (+)-tartaric acid dissolved in a minimum
amount of iPrOH. The solutions were stored at 0 °C overnight.
The crystalline products were collected by filtration and dried
overnight at 60 °C under high vacuum. In the absence of more
extensive heating, which caused gradual decomposition, these
conditions were not sufficient to remove all traces of solvent,
evident in the NMR spectra, and satisfactory elemental
analyses could not be obtained. Thus, purity was assured by
the fact that all of the compounds had first of all been purified
using the Chromatotron and were isolated as a single spot on
TLC analysis in two different systems with visualization using
Van Urk’s indole spray reagent. Subsequently, HPLC analysis
showed essentially a single eluting peak representing 99+%
of the sample for all final compounds. There were no contami-
nant peaks in the 1H NMR other than traces of solvents (tert-
BuOH, iPrOH), and the HR mass spectra were consistent with
the expected structures.

...

Aweeeesome. Thanks zip.

HeaT

05-06-2009, 07:55 PM

Nah, post up.

It may have been the PyBOP method I was referencing as "ghetto".... I've been fucked up lately, heh. If so.....

You can get PyBOP for about one to two dollars a gram. Not too bad mate. Be keen on checking out the Nichols ref as well, it'd be sweet to see this procedure performed on slightly smaller scale (ergot ain't cheap).

HOT DAMN!!! Where might one do so?

I'd question the validity of that synth, considering it's more than likely the author has never preformed any of it himself.

Luls, reminds me why I don't post on WD.

Someone posted a reference yeilding diethylamine in the 60-80 percent range, along with other ethylamides..... That will suffice.

Ford Prefect

05-06-2009, 08:47 PM

Someone posted a reference yeilding diethylamine in the 60-80 percent range, along with other ethylamides..... That will suffice.

From DEET? What ethylamides?

Ref?

nshanin

05-07-2009, 02:01 AM

Behold!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disulfiram

Not one, but TWO diethylamine moieties just waiting to be hydrolyzed.

HeaT

05-07-2009, 03:40 AM

From DEET? What ethylamides?

Ref?

ethylamine, diethylamine, and triethylamines. Those were the only listed refs. I'm almost positive it came from &Z..... I'll dig it up when i'm not on my phone.

HeaT

05-08-2009, 03:04 AM

ethylamine, diethylamine, and triethylamines. Those were the only listed refs. I'm almost positive it came from &Z..... I'll dig it up when i'm not on my phone.

Apparently this book has the referenced article in it somewhere, "preparation of ethylamine and diethylamine" by emil alphonse werner, 1916. It also looks like a decent book!

http://www.google.com/m/url?cd=4&ct=res&ei=G6QDSojfF5m4qgLCh8sV&eosr=on&oi=blended&q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.scribd.com%2Fdoc%2F14498819%2FO tto-Snow-LSD-chemistry-synthesis-production-2003&sa=X&uipref=OLYMPIC&usg=AFQjCNEPuA0pyvJgJXEs9E4WbqOKCJdPjg

Ford Prefect

05-08-2009, 03:30 AM

Apparently this book has the referenced article in it somewhere, "preparation of ethylamine and diethylamine" by emil alphonse werner, 1916. It also looks like a decent book!

Ohhh, gotcha. Yeah, I posted it earlier but it looks like that link is dead:
Prep of Ethylamine and Diethylamine (http://www.evilshare.com/97398d7c-8cd0-102c-8cae-0030489aabc6)

Ethyl Bromide seems like a lot of fuss for a few grams of DEA, though it wouldn't be the worst idea to prepare a quantity of mixed amines for future lab use as they're pretty handy chemicals. But for small scale I suppose we shouldn't quite give up on DEET. From what I've heard it sounds viable, it just requires a loooong reflux. Possibly an afternoon or so. I'd feel a little more confident in the reaction if I'd actually heard of a definitive success.

Nshanin: I like the way you think. Those pills are EXPENSIVE though. :(

And I'm definitely liking (http://www.evilshare.com/859fca08-8cd1-102c-8cae-0030489aabc6) the (http://www.evilshare.com/859f213e-8cd1-102c-8cae-0030489aabc6) sound (http://www.evilshare.com/8590826e-8cd1-102c-8cae-0030489aabc6) of PyBOP. Between Casey's and Nichol's references I'd suppose we'd have near enough to go on.

Does anybody have a reference for a small scale hydrolysis to lysergic acid? Fairly straightforward procedure but it'd still be nice to look at.

:)

HeaT

05-08-2009, 07:18 PM

Ohhh, gotcha. Yeah, I posted it earlier but it looks like that link is dead:
Prep of Ethylamine and Diethylamine (http://www.evilshare.com/97398d7c-8cd0-102c-8cae-0030489aabc6)

Ethyl Bromide seems like a lot of fuss for a few grams of DEA, though it wouldn't be the worst idea to prepare a quantity of mixed amines for future lab use as they're pretty handy chemicals. But for small scale I suppose we shouldn't quite give up on DEET. From what I've heard it sounds viable, it just requires a loooong reflux. Possibly an afternoon or so. I'd feel a little more confident in the reaction if I'd actually heard of a definitive success.

Nshanin: I like the way you think. Those pills are EXPENSIVE though. :(

And I'm definitely liking (http://www.evilshare.com/859fca08-8cd1-102c-8cae-0030489aabc6) the (http://www.evilshare.com/859f213e-8cd1-102c-8cae-0030489aabc6) sound (http://www.evilshare.com/8590826e-8cd1-102c-8cae-0030489aabc6) of PyBOP. Between Casey's and Nichol's references I'd suppose we'd have near enough to go on.

Does anybody have a reference for a small scale hydrolysis to lysergic acid? Fairly straightforward procedure but it'd still be nice to look at.

:)

I have been having trouble finding anything any smaller than pihkal. It's not too big.... a gram or two? I'd say it would scale to 500mg well.... I wouldnt want to go any lower than that! I'm gonna say that HWBR extraction, decent purification of alkaloids (remove coloration), hydrolysis and recrystalization would react-able lysergic acid hydrate. Does PyBOP creat iso-LSD too? I know HOSu helps prevemt that....

General Butt.Naked

05-20-2009, 12:51 PM

When &t died, I was desperately composing the second half of the message in which I tried to encourage BLTC to engage in organized mass action to flood the world with psychedelics... which involved both encouraging mobs to throw morning glory seeds at every square inch of dirt they could find

Same. Did it. Threw papaver somniferum and morning glory all around LAX (thats LA international Airport) until I ran out. Got a pretty good spread. Stuff grew in a few places, but i think they needed a little more care, especially with the climate here. It was funny seeing randomly placed white and blue poppies swaying in these arbitrary places around a major airport. Ill do more when I get ahold of another bag of seeds.

CaspeR

Exploration of Space

06-10-2009, 11:22 PM

People need to be very careful, explosions and fatal poisoning is not uncommon.

A) Get a source for Claviceps Purpurea fungus

If no source can be found, you can make a field trip to obtain it from rye or other cereal grasses. Rye grass is the best choice. The ergot will appear as a blackish growth on the tops of the rye where the seeds are. They are approximately the same shape as the seeds and are referred to as "heads" or "ergot". From these heads or ergot sprout the Claviceps Purpurea fungi.
They have long stems and bulbous heads when viewed under a strong glass or microscope. It is these that must be removed from the ergot, free from contamination, and used to inoculate the culture material.

B) Make a culture medium

Combine the following ingredients in about 500 ml distilled water in a 2 L small-neck flask:

Sucrose 100 g
Chick pea meal 50 g Calcium nitrate 1 g Ca(NO3)2 Monopotassium phosphate 0.25 g KH2PO4 Magnesium sulphate 0.25 g MgSO4 Potassium chloride 0.125 g KCl Ferrous sulphate heptahydrate 8.34 mg FeSO47H20 Zinc sulphate heptahydrate 3.44 mg ZnSO47H20

Add water to make up one liter
Adjust to pH 4 with ammonia solution and citric acid
Sterilize by autoclaving

C) Make a culture

Inoculate the sterilized medium with Claviceps Purpurea under sterile conditions, stopper with sterilized cotton and incubate for two weeks, periodically testing and maintaining pH 4. After two weeks a surface culture can be seen on the medium. Large-scale production of the fungus can now begin.

D) Large-scale production

Obtain several ordinary 1 gallon jugs.
Place a two-hole stopper in the necks of the jugs.
Fit a short (6 inch) tube in one hole, leaving two inches above the stopper. Fit a short rubber tube to this. Fill a small (500 ml) Erlenmeyer flask with a dilute solution of sodium hypochlorite (NaClO). Extend a glass tube from the rubber so the end is immersed in the hypochlorite.
Fit a long glass tube in the other stopper hole. It must reach near the bottom of the jug and have about two inches showing above the stopper. Attach a rubber tube to the glass tube and fit a short glass tube to the end of the rubber tube.

Fill a large glass tube (1" x 6") with sterile cotton and fit one-hole stoppers in the ends. Fit the small glass tube in the end of the rubber tube into one stopper of the large tube. Fit another small glass tube into the other stopper. A rubber tube is connected to this and attached to small air pump (obtained from a tropical fish store).
With this aeration equipment you can assure a supply of clean air to the Claviceps Purpurea fungus while maintaining a sterile environment inside the solution.
Dismantle the aerators. Place all the glass tubes, rubber tubes, stoppers and cotton in a paper bag, seal tightly with wire staples and sterilize in an autoclave.
Fill the 1-gallon jugs 2/3 to 3/4 full with the culture medium and autoclave.
While these things are being sterilized, homogenize in a blender the culture already obtained and use it to inoculate the material in the gallon jugs. The blender must be sterile.

EVERYTHING must be sterile.

Assemble the aerators. Start the pumps. A slow bubbling in each jug will provide enough oxygen to the cultures. A single pump may be connected to several filters.
Let everything sit at room temperature (25 C) in a dark place (never expose ergot alkaloids to bright light - they will decompose) for a period of ten days.
After ten days, adjust the culture to 1% ethanol using 95% ethanol under sterile conditions. Maintain growth for another two weeks.

E) Extract ergot alkaloids

After a total of 24 days growth period, the culture should be considered mature. Make the culture acidic with tartaric acid and homogenize in a blender for one hour.
Adjust to pH 9 with ammonium hydroxide and extract with benzene or chloroform/iso-butanol mixture.
Extract again with alcoholic tartaric acid and evaporate in a vacuum to dryness.
The dry material is the salt (the tartaric acid salt, the tartrate) of the ergot alkaloids, and is stored in this form because the free basic material is too unstable and decomposes readily in the presence of light, heat, moisture, and air.
To recover the free base for extraction of the amide or synthesis to LSD, make the tartrate basic with ammonia to pH 9, extract with chloroform, and evaporate in vacuo.

#4: Synthesis of LSD from ergot alkaloids or LSA
(including sections on isomerization, separation, purification & crystallization)

NOTE: the chemicals and reactions described below are potentially dangerous even to an organic chemist in a well-equipped laboratory.
The publishers therefore disclaim responsibility for any damage or injury resulting from the improper handling of the chemicals and techniques described, and strongly urge all persons unqualified to perform the reactions to use instead the comparatively easier, safer ergot culture and LSA extraction process.

A) Synthesis of LSD (iso- & dextro-lysergic acid diethylamide)

PREPARATORY: obtain one red and one yellow photographic safety light and one weak, long-wave ultraviolet light. These are used to prevent the hydrolysis of lysergic acid compounds.
NOTE: Aluminum foil must be used to cover the chemicals when light is present. Rubber gloves must be worn; these compounds are extremely poisonous.
[The source implies but does not state that one may replace "ergot alkaloid" in the following with the seed-derived semi- pure LSA concentrate from #2. --Ed.]

USING YELLOW LIGHT:
Place one volume of ergot alkaloid in a small roundbottom flask. Add 2 volumes of anhydrous hydrazine and reflux for 30 minutes, or the mixture may be heated in a sealed tube at 112 Celsius for 30 minutes. If the reflux technique is used, maintain atmospheric pressure by using an open container or fractionating column.
After heating/refluxing, add 1.5 volumes of water to the mixture and boil gently for 15 minutes. After boiling is complete, cool the mixture in a refrigerator until solidification. The solid material obtained is iso-lysergic acid hydrazide.
USING RED LIGHT:
Chill all chemicals (reagents) to be used to 0 Celsius. Place an open flask in an ice bath. Add 100 ml concentrated hydrochloric acid (chilled to 0 C).
Quickly add 2.82 g of the lysergic acid hydrazide to the hydrochloric acid, being careful to maintain a temperature of 0 Celsius.
Add 100 ml of a 0.1 N (1/10th Normal) solution of sodium nitrite (chilled to 0 C) and stir vigorously for 3 minutes.
Continue stirring at 0 Celsius and add dropwise 130 ml of the hydrochloric acid.
When the acid addition is complete, continue stirring for 5 minutes, then neutralize the solution with sodium bicarbonate, using a saturated water solution of the bicarbonate.
Extract the solution with ether, remove the water layer, and dissolve the gummy substance in ether. Add this to the ether layer.
Add 3 g of diethylamine for every 30 ml of the ether extract.
Let this stand in the dark, and gradually warm up to 20 Celsius for at least 24 hours.
Evaporate this solution in a vacuum.
The material remaining is a mixture of the inactive iso-lysergic acid diethylamide and the active lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD-25). The inactive isomer must now be converted (isomerized) to the active isomer to greatly increase the yield, since the inactive compound predominates in this synthesis.

B) Isomerization of iso-LSD into the active LSD-25

USING THE RED LIGHT:
Dissolve the synthesized material into the minimum amount of ethyl alcohol.
Mix a 4 Normal solution of potassium hydroxide in ethanol. The amount of solution needed is twice the volume of the iso-LSD/ethanol solution.
Add the two solutions together and let the mixture sit for 4 hours at room temperature.
Neutralize the mixture with dilute hydrochloric acid, then make it slightly basic with ammonium hydroxide.
Extract the mixture with chloroform, sparate the chloroform layer, and extract this four times with a 25% volume of water.
Evaporate the chloroform in a vacuum. Discard the water extracts. The material left after evaporation a mixture of iso-LSD and LSD-25, the active LSD predominating.
The mixture may now be separated by chromatography and the iso-LSD again isomerized by the above process.

C) Separation, purification & crystallization of LSD-25

USING A DARKROOM:
The material obtained from the isomerization process is now dissolved in a solution prepared from 3 parts benzene/1 part chloroform. Use 50 ml solvent per 1 gram LSD material.
Mix a slurry basic alumina in benzene. Pack it into a 1 inch chromatoghraphy column until it fills 6 inches.
When the slurry settles, drain the benzene/chloroform down to the level of the basic alumina, and carefully add an equal amount of the LSD/solvent solution.

USING A WEAK, LONG-WAVE ULTRAVIOLET LIGHT: (to follow the blue band only)
Drain the solution through the column. The fastest-moving, blue fluorescent band contains the LSD-25. Collect this fraction and evaporate in a vacuum. The syrup remaining will crystallize spontaneously, but slowly. Do not heat.
Use the UV light only whe necessary to follow the blue band in order to avoid decomposition of the compounds.
Dissolve the syrup or crystal in tartaric acid solution and recrystallize to form the stable end-product (dextro lysergic acid diethylamide tartrate).
The material remaining in the column may be removed with methanol, evaporated in a vacuum, and recycled through the isomerization and subsequent procedures by itself or combined with fresh material. Also, all leftover solutions and residues may be neutralized with socium bicarbonate, evaporated in vacuo, and extracted with ammoniacal chloroform, the extract evaporated to dryness, and the residue reused.

#5: Preparation of lysergic acid from the amide

NOTE: this synthesis is as difficult and dangerous as the rest, and is of use only if using one of the following two LSD synthesis methods, which require lysergic acid as the starting compound. The lysergic acid amide obtained from the extract of ergot or seeds need not be converted to the acid prior to its use in the synthesis of LSD providing that the synthesis used is #4 given above, and giving the starting material "ergot alkaloid".

Dissolve 10 g lysergic acid amide in 200 ml methanolic potassium hydroxide solution.
Remove the methanol by vacuum as soon as the amide is dissolved.
Dissolve the residue which is left into 200 ml of an 8% solution of potassium hydroxide in water.
Heat this mixture on a steam bath for 1 hour.
Pass a steam of nitrogen gas through the flask during the heating process. (The ammonia which is evolved in the gas stream may be titrated with hydrochloric acid in order to follow the reaction.)
Neutralize the mixture with tartaric acid (neutral to congo red) and run it through a filter paper.
Extract the mixture with ether in a separatory funnel. Save the water layer, discard the ether layer.
Filter the solution through a filter paper and evaporate.
Upon evaporation, dry crystals of lysergic acid will be obtained.

#6: Synthesis of LSD using lysergic acid the quickest way to make pure LSD-25 PREPARATORY: see #4
NOTE: The chemicals and techniques described are potentially dangerous. It is highly recommended that the physical and chemical properties of the reagents used be studied by those persons unfamiliar with them before the synthesis is attempted.

USING THE YELLOW LIGHT:
5.36 g of d-lysergic acid are suspended in 125 ml acetonitrile, and the suspension is cooled to about -20 Celsius in a bath of acetone cooled with dry ice.
To the suspension is added a cold (-20 C) solution of 8.82 g of trifluoracetic anhydride in 75 ml acetonitrile. The mixture is allowed to stand at -20 C for about 1 1/2 (one and one-half) hours.
(During this time the suspended material dissolves and the d-lysergic acid id converted to the mixed anhydride of lysergic and trifluoracetic acids.)
The mixed anhydride can be separated in the form of an oil by evaporating the solvent in vacuo at a temperature below about 0 Celsius.
Everything must be kept anhydrous.

USING THE RED LIGHT:
The solution of mixed anhydrides in acetonitrile from above is added to 150 ml of acetonitrile containing 7.6 g of diethylamine.
The mixture is held in the dark at room temperature for about 2 hours.
The acetonitrile is evaporated in vacuo, leaving a residue of LSD-25 plus impurities.
The residue is dissolved in 150 ml of chloroform and 20 ml of ice water.
The chloroform layer is removed and the aqueous layer is extracted with several portions of chloroform. The chloroform portions are are combined and, in turn, washed with four 50 ml portions of ice-cold water.
The chloroform solution is then dried over anhydrous sodium sulfate and evaporated in vacuo.
NOTE: following the completion of this synthesis, follow the procedures described for separation, purification, and crystallization of LSD-25. If a higher yield is desired, follow the procedure on isomerization after doing the separation, purification, and crystallization.

#7: Synthesis of LSD using lysergic acid high-yielding and fast

PREPARATORY: see #4
NOTE: The chemicals and techniques described are potentially dangerous. It is highly recommended that the physical and chemical properties of the reagents used be studied by those persons unfamiliar with them before the synthesis is attempted.
NOTE: the following procedure gives good yield and is very fast, with little iso-lysergic acid being produced. However, the stoichiometry must be exact or yields will drop

USING WHITE LIGHT:
Sulfur trioxide is produced in an anhydrous state by carefully decomposing anhydrous ferric sulfate at approximately 480 Celsius. Store under anhydrous conditions.
USING WHITE LIGHT:
A carefully-dried 22 liter RB flask fitted with an ice bath, dropping funnel, and mechanical stirrer is charged with 10 to 11 liters of dimethylformamide (freshly distilled under reduced pressure).
The condenser and dropping funnel are both protected against atmospheric moisture.
2 lb. of sulfur trioxide (Sulfan B) are introduced dropwise, very cautiously with stirring, during 4 to 5 hours. The temperature is kept at 0-5 Celsius throughout the addition.
After the addition is complete, the mixture is stirred for 1 to 2 hours until some separated crystalline sulfur trioxide- dimethylformamide complex has dissolved.
The reagent is transferred to an air-tight automatic pipette for convenient dispensing, and kept in the cold. Although the reagent, which is colorless, may change to yellow and red, its efficiency remains unimpaired for three to four months in cold storage.
An aliquot is dissolved in water and titrated with standard NaOH to a phenolphthalein end point.

USING RED LIGHT:
A solution of 7.15 g of d-lysergic acid monohydrate (25 mmol) and 1.06 g of lithium hydroxide hydrate (25 mmol) in 200 L of MeOH is prepared.
The solvent is distilled on the steam bath under reduced pressure.
The residue of glass-like lithium lysergate is dissolved in 400 ml of anhydrous dimethyl formamide.
From this solution, about 200 ml of the dimethyl formamide is distilled off at 15mm pressure through a 12-inch helices packed column.
The resulting anhydrous solution of lithium lysergate left behind is cooled to 0 Celsius and, with stirring, treated rapidly with 500 ml of SO3DMF solution (1.00 Molar).
The mixture is stirred in the cold for 10 minutes and then 9.14 g (125.0 mmol) of diethylamine is added.
The stirring and cooling are continued for 10 minutes longer, when 400 ml of water is added to decompose the reaction complex.
After mixing thoroughly, 200 ml of saturated aqueous saline solution is added. The amide product is isolated by repeated extraction with 500 ml portions of ethylene dichloride.
The combined extract is dried and then concentrated to a syrup under reduced pressure. Do not heat the syrup during concentration. The LSD may crystallize out, but the crystals and the mother liquor may be chromatographed according to the instructions in the synthesis of LSD #4

Exploration of Space

06-10-2009, 11:24 PM

Or for the lazy, http://store.usp.org/OA_HTML/ibeCCtpItmDspRte.jsp?item=19076&section=10559&beginIndex=40

ATG

06-11-2009, 09:58 PM

Exploration of Space, where did that come from?

Ivy Mike

06-12-2009, 04:47 AM

I hate to be the one to ask the stupid question but has anyone tested any of these methods yet? While the science seems solid and promising (particularly for the plant derived sources) I have a nagging feeling that there may be something unexpected that throws a wrench into the synth, like unexpected bacteria or some sort of unknown compound in the plant matter.

Also, I have a feeling that these precursors could be put towards some sort of novel -easier to synth-RC. While I'm not advocating this, one could theoretically make something profitable/eye opening/LSD like compound. Or failing that do something with the tryptamine backbone and possibly skirt the law while doing some research.

47 47 47

06-12-2009, 04:52 AM

Or for the lazy, http://store.usp.org/OA_HTML/ibeCCtpItmDspRte.jsp?item=19076&section=10559&beginIndex=40

lolwtfomfgbbq

But seriously, whats the deal with that? It has tartrate tacked onto to end, but that couldn't be too hard for you guys to change, right? and 600$ for 10mg? Im too lazy to do the math but is that legit?

nshanin

06-12-2009, 09:23 AM

lolwtfomfgbbq

But seriously, whats the deal with that? It has tartrate tacked onto to end, but that couldn't be too hard for you guys to change, right? and 600$ for 10mg? Im too lazy to do the math but is that legit?

About 200 hits (though I didn't account for the tartrate). $3 each. Beats prices 'round here.

sexualjesus

06-15-2009, 06:11 PM

holy shit when did this thread come back?

since its here jesus wants to offer his help, on a related forum i saw a copy of uncle festers lsd book, its long and people tend to say a lot of its bullshit (considering his meth books) but it has a hell of a lot of information on cultivation ergot and if you read far enough some pretty indepth synths of lsd, if you take it with a grain of salt its pretty helpfull.

that is if anyone desperately really wants it, itll be text format instead of pdf

nshanin

06-15-2009, 06:31 PM

PDFs are easily available through torrents, warez sites, and FTPs. But you're right about one thing--Fester's LSD book is a load of shit.

stateofhack

06-16-2009, 05:40 AM

PDFs are easily available through torrents, warez sites, and FTPs. But you're right about one thing--Fester's LSD book is a load of shit.

exactly.

Also back on topic enough talking about a damn link, we are not talking about BUYING it, but making it, so tinfoil/thinking hat back on please:mad:

hostie

06-16-2009, 06:43 AM

I am so glad that there is a forum here with some organic chem intellect that I will probably never get. Could I ask you something? What would be a good starting point for learning synthesis of... say LSD? I have very little knowledge in organic chemistry but have strong interest in the subject. Last time I dealt with organic chem was in my gr12 high school chemistry class. Now in uni, but discipline that has little to do with chemistry. Unafraid to read books or buy expensive equipment. What would you say I should start reading with a goal of LSD synthesis?

nshanin

06-16-2009, 07:57 AM

hostie

06-16-2009, 08:03 AM

There's a stickied thread for you in this forum.

... ?! That's all you have?

nshanin

06-16-2009, 08:49 AM

... ?! That's all you have?

Of course not; but that's all any of us are going to give you unless you come up with something on your own. Imagine walking into physicsforums.com and saying:

"I am so glad that there is a forum here with some physics intellect that I will probably never get. Could I ask you something? What would be a good starting point for learning the design of rockets? I have very little knowledge in physics and engineering but have strong interest in the subject. Last time I dealt with physics was in my gr12 high school physics class. Now in uni, but discipline that has little to do with physics/engineering. Unafraid to read books or buy expensive equipment. What would you say I should start reading with a goal of rocket design?"

You'd be laughed at. We're a lot nicer here; we actually give you resources.

Back on topic: has anyone seen evidence of peptide coupling in the clandestine manufacture of LSD yet? Any Microgram or J. Chem. Anal. articles? When the "OMG MEFF EPIDEMIC" was going on, it seemed like every other Microgram bulletin would have a lab analyzing a new byproduct, but I haven't seen this with LSD so far.

stateofhack

06-16-2009, 10:36 AM

Ok let me brake this down, a you ask a questions and got the answer you deserved! Now let me brake it down for you:

I am so glad that there is a forum here with some organic chem intellect that I will probably never get. Could I ask you something? What would be a good starting point for learning synthesis of... say LSD? I have very little knowledge in organic chemistry but have strong interest in the subject. Last time I dealt with organic chem was in my gr12 high school chemistry class. Now in uni, but discipline that has little to do with chemistry. Unafraid to read books or buy expensive equipment. What would you say I should start reading with a goal of LSD synthesis?

Do you see anything wrong in the statement you made there that i highlighted in bold? If you do congrats i think i have nothing more to say, if not, then gtfo, really! There is a damn sticky for a reason!

stateofhack

06-16-2009, 10:24 PM

Moving on..peptide coupling FTW!

hostie

06-17-2009, 01:41 AM

Moving on..peptide coupling FTW!

This motherfucker deleted my post!! Can't bare the fact that you're a piece of shit??? Shove that chromatograph up your dickhole, buddy.

nshanin

06-17-2009, 04:49 AM

This motherfucker deleted my post!! Can't bare the fact that you're a piece of shit??? Shove that chromatograph up your dickhole, buddy.

*Rolls on the floor laughing.*

Rizzo in a box

06-17-2009, 04:52 AM

*Rolls on the floor laughing.*

*wonders if typing out acronyms will be a new e-meme*

Oh, wait, this isn't the bullshit thread...

stateofhack

06-17-2009, 07:14 AM

This motherfucker deleted my post!! Can't bare the fact that you're a piece of shit??? Shove that chromatograph up your dickhole, buddy.

hahah epic, but can we please stick to topic? Your always diverting and causing havoc!

hostie

06-17-2009, 11:42 AM

Oh no i just did not do this? Am i really editing your thread? What is all this douchebagery?

JoePedo

06-17-2009, 12:23 PM

... ?! That's all you have?

Well, have you mastered everything in the n00bz thread yet?

Because you will need to.

hostie

06-17-2009, 12:35 PM

Well, have you mastered everything in the n00bz thread yet?

Because you will need to.

Thank you Joey for the artistic thread. I have at the level it deserved. Thanks for asking, also.

JoePedo

06-17-2009, 01:01 PM

Thank you Joey for the artistic thread. I have at the level it deserved. Thanks for asking, also.

Great, then you already know how to make LSD.

/tangent.

missingno

12-30-2009, 05:05 AM

Ergine aka Lysergic Acid Amide is found in the seeds of several varieties of Morning Glories in concentrations of approximately 10 µg per seed, as well as Hawaiian Baby Woodrose seeds, at a concentration of around .3%

LSA is known to have 1/10th the potency as LSD

Fractals

12-30-2009, 10:24 PM

missingno

01-22-2010, 06:51 AM

^ compliment?

stateofhack

01-22-2010, 07:45 PM

:facepalm: