Appeals to vanity

[Rizzo in a box]

Always, always work.

As long as you can pretend people are important you can get ANYTHING done.

[Stock Market Anomalies]

Bat Country is up there ^

[Rizzo in a box]

Hey, sorry, I'm starting a serious discussion regarding: vanity. My claim is that by appealing to the universal sense of vanity inherent to humanity one can accomplish any goal, because all goal-orientations are inherently self-serving to the point of vanity.

[Syphilis]

Arguing semantics and following the English language off on random tangents is never a valid argument.

EDIT: Looks like I didn't read your post correctly.
:facepalm:

[Rizzo in a box]

Arguing semantics and following the English language off on random tangents is never a valid argument.

Sorry, do you want me to use a different language?

The language of reason is the language of mathematical forumlae. Which is, essentially, what semantics is.

[Stock Market Anomalies]

No, we just want you to pull your dick out from your creative writing/journalism professor's ass for five fucking minutes and post something decent for a change.

[Nero]

God, who fucking cares how he writes? Yeah, it's turgid and annoying sometimes..But he's making a good point here. :mad:

[Tunicate]

I do think the man makes a valid point, at least. Jeez, you guys.

Personally, I don't WANT to believe that it's true. However, I've used that very ideal/principle (or lack thereof) to get what I needed from people in a jiffy. So the question becomes, how often to people exploit this with or without knowing that it's possible?

[Nero]

Yeah.

I noticed an easy way to win people over is to talk them up and say their name a lot. People fucking love hearing their own name.

[Tunicate]

l don't, but I'm emotionally unavailable and find it hard to accept the copious love people have for me so... that makes me an unusual case. Therapists even tell you to address people by " Hello, *name*" instead of just "Hi." because it makes them feel like you're paying them special attention.

[Nero]

l don't, but I'm emotionally unavailable and find it hard to accept the copious love people have for me so... that makes me an unusual case.

I am also unique and special.

[Dog]

I think you're going to have to provide more than that to get people (particularly our sizeable number of dumb posters) engaged. Some examples would be nice.

[Rizzo in a box]

I think you're going to have to provide more than that to get people (particularly our sizeable number of dumb posters) engaged. Some examples would be nice.

h'okay

Appeal to Vanity. Also known as apple-polishing, the strategy behind this fallacy is to create a predisposition toward agreement by paying compliments. The success of the strategy depends on a combination of the vanity of the target and the subtlety of the compliment, and it is usually more effect when the compliment is somehow related to the issue at hand. Consider these two examples:

"Gosh, officer, I know I made an illegal left turn, but you certainly look handsome in your uniform."

"Gosh, officer, I know I made an illegal left turn, but it was certainly perceptive of you to notice. You deserve a commendation."

Admittedly, for either of these appeals to succeed in the attempt to avoid a ticket, the officer would have to be remarkably vain. The second example would seem slightly more subtle and relevant, and therefore perhaps more effective, or at least less embarrassing when the officer writes the ticket anyway.

http://www.sjsu.edu/depts/itl/7/part3/emotion.html

It's really not that hard to figure out.

[FunkyZombie]

Personally the quickest way to make me skeptical of your motives is to attempt to appeal to my vanity.

I get suspicious when ever someone tries to convince me of something by telling me how clever, handsome, or special I am. It makes me think you're up to something.

I acknowledge that I am an exception and the rule however.

[Stock Market Anomalies]

God, who fucking cares how he writes? Yeah, it's turgid and annoying sometimes..But he's making a good point here. :mad:

How the fuck is this a good point, its common knowledge with a dramatic writing flair.

[LiquidIce]

Well it happens all the time. Some people are more prone to it and others are less prone to it.

Rizzo, what would happen if a gorgeous woman came up to you and said that your zine is the best thing in the world and she's willing to have your babies?

Everyone has their weak spots, some have more than others, some have easier to reach weak spots... But vanity is against reason, so I think I'll agree with you here and add that people should strive to become immune to this sort of bullshit.

[Nero]

How the fuck is this a good point, its common knowledge with a dramatic writing flair.

That covers about 95% of the threads here.

[Tunicate]

I am also unique and special.

*sigh* At least you're predictable. What I meant was, many people clamor for the kind of attention i receive. Dating/secksing multiple people takes a lot of appeals to vanity, but more in the sense that people must feel assured that they are important to the "equation", than anything else. In the same situation, however: I find it marginally important, if at all, to appeal to my vanity. I say this because I am so emotionally unavailable that I view most of those sexual or romantic relationships as disposable, even if the other person does not think the same way of me. In light of this lack of attachment to people who give me compliments, stay around, etc. i thought it might be recognized that this was not the "normal", instinctual, response.
Sheesh. Plz no makes fun of my 5 amz writing nomoes :confused:

How the fuck is this a good point, its common knowledge with a dramatic writing flair.

Sounds like all philosophy texts, to me...

[superspeedz]

Always, always work.

As long as you can pretend people are important you can get ANYTHING done.

hahaha, but what about if they are fundamentally lazy and don't like doing shit.

:P

[Syphilis]

An even better method is to make them think that you are important, and to make them try to win your approval.

[Rizzo in a box]

Rizzo, what would happen if a gorgeous woman came up to you and said that your zine is the best thing in the world and she's willing to have your babies?


I'd run away from her as quickly as possible. Most likely a CIA honey-potter. :thumbsup:

[chompchompchomsky]

Personally the quickest way to make me skeptical of your motives is to attempt to appeal to my vanity.

I get suspicious when ever someone tries to convince me of something by telling me how clever, handsome, or special I am. It makes me think you're up to something.

I acknowledge that I am an exception and the rule however.

:p right...

[LiquidIce]

I'd run away from her as quickly as possible. Most likely a CIA honey-potter. :thumbsup:

Rape fantasy imminent ;)

We're all a bit prone to this appeal to vanity, some people are just weak from different angles. You can win someone over if you say they are clever, but if you said they were strong they'd just get mad. It all depends on the individual.

[Nero]

*sigh* At least you're predictable. What I meant was, many people clamor for the kind of attention i receive. Dating/secksing multiple people takes a lot of appeals to vanity, but more in the sense that people must feel assured that they are important to the "equation", than anything else. In the same situation, however: I find it marginally important, if at all, to appeal to my vanity. I say this because I am so emotionally unavailable that I view most of those sexual or romantic relationships as disposable, even if the other person does not think the same way of me. In light of this lack of attachment to people who give me compliments, stay around, etc. i thought it might be recognized that this was not the "normal", instinctual, response.
Sheesh. Plz no makes fun of my 5 amz writing nomoes :confused:


What?

[Zay]

An even better method is to make them think that you are important, and to make them try to win your approval.

You know, I don't always love what you write but this is definitely the best post in the thread. The OP gives the vibe of having such a low self-esteem that he's concluded that ass-kissing is the key to success in life. It's part of the whole druggie psyche. Everyone/everything is false, nobody sees things my way, nobody strokes MY ego, etc.

OP, not all form of flattery is vanity. People earn respect for countless things, and it doesn't hurt to give respects where they're due. Druggies have shrinkage in the frontal lobes of the brain and the pleasure/reward centers that renders normal human activity as some loathsome task hardly worth bothering with and secondary to your "enlightenment", that's why you're abstracting basic human interaction in such a lifeless way.

Also, consider for a moment that the person who's ass your kissing isn't necessarily an asskisser himself, so your whole argument that asskissing is the key to success in life fails right there. The selfless sycophant who doesn't command his own respect doesn't earn equals.

[Rizzo in a box]

You know, I don't always love what you write but this is definitely the best post in the thread. The OP gives the vibe of having such a low self-esteem that he's concluded that ass-kissing is the key to success in life. It's part of the whole druggie psyche. Everyone/everything is false, nobody sees things my way, nobody strokes MY ego, etc.

OP, not all form of flattery is vanity. People earn respect for countless things, and it doesn't hurt to give respects where they're due. Druggies have shrinkage in the frontal lobes of the brain and the pleasure/reward centers that renders normal human activity as some loathsome task hardly worth bothering with and secondary to your "enlightenment", that's why you're abstracting basic human interaction in such a lifeless way.

Also, consider for a moment that the person who's ass your kissing isn't necessarily an asskisser himself, so your whole argument that asskissing is the key to success in life fails right there. The selfless sycophant who doesn't command his own respect doesn't earn equals.

You don't even understand what I'm saying, and I'm in no way a "druggie". You're a horrible, fail-troll psuedo intellectual that is constantly seeking external approval. I have no druggie "psyche" and I would love to tell you where my "ego" is and what it is made up, of what substance, on what manner of sustenance it thrives, the goals it has, and how it differs from a "non-ego".

I have no "self-esteem" because for me the "self" is so abstract as to be completely non-existent. Therefore all "self-referential" pats on the back, self-importance, vanity, and general pettiness of the human race stinks as a great pestilence to me.

I have no equals, and no peers.

[Kalamazoo]

this is such a good thread. I'm so glad the really good OP decided to make this really good thread. We'd all be lost without the goodness of this extremely good thread. I am so proud of it. Wow. Good stuff. Really, really, good stuff.

:thumbsup:

[Yggdrasil]

Meh. It's always nice to get a compliment or two, but I can read people like a book, and I can usually see through people's actions into their intentions. I really don't like people that try and butter me up for anything, and when they do try, I'll play along and then flat-out reject or deny them whatever they're trying to get at in the end. When people I'm not particularly interested in take a liking to me (women, other men) and get intensive with their cutesy-ness and compliments etc, it can tick me off, depending on how far they take their desires. My responses to it range from mildly playing along or letting them down to being a flat-out dick to whoever's trying to swoon me.

In short, don't bullshit me :o

[Ambient]

Meh. It's always nice to get a compliment or two, but I can read people like a book, and I can usually see through people's actions into their intentions. I really don't like people that try and butter me up for anything, and when they do try, I'll play along and then flat-out reject or deny them whatever they're trying to get at in the end. When people I'm not particularly interested in take a liking to me (women, other men) and get intensive with their cutesy-ness and compliments etc, it can tick me off, depending on how far they take their desires. My responses to it range from mildly playing along or letting them down to being a flat-out dick to whoever's trying to swoon me.

In short, don't bullshit me :o

Oh you go girl *snaps fingers back anf forth like an ghetto black women* haha.

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Rizzo I do think you have a druggie psyche, I say that as an ex-stoner and proponent of expiremental drug use.

[Mantikore]

both appealing to vanity and asserting your own interests work, but for different people. its just about choosing which one you think yield a better result

[-MC]

Personally the quickest way to make me skeptical of your motives is to attempt to appeal to my vanity.

I get suspicious when ever someone tries to convince me of something by telling me how clever, handsome, or special I am. It makes me think you're up to something.

I acknowledge that I am an exception and the rule however.

that's not an exception to the rule, that's the natural cynicism that you're brought up with. It's a modern instinct because every person has realized at some point that this is exactly the way people try to bend you to their will.
Obviously someone who tells you things like how 'clever, handsome or special' you are simply lacks the subtlety to properly flatter you. I however I'm willing to bet that you could easily be convinced with the right words. Perhaps an appeal to you sense of morality, or maybe just something more subtle than directly flattering you. Example when someone says: 'I've tried and I can't do it' you immediately want to assert your superiority over them by besting them at the task.
All successful con-artists are aware of every persons own egotistical nature and they will exploit it to their own gain in a similar manner.
Just because you are intelligent enough to spot blatant flattery doesn't mean that you are immune to all forms of persuasion.

I think that if any person was to question their own motives extensively, they would eventually reach the end of the chain which is simply: 'because I think this will turn out best for me'
A truly selfless simply cannot exist IMHO...
Except maybe if it was forced in the famously intoxicating grip of what we call 'true love' in which case the reasoning becomes 'because I think it will turn out best for my partner'
I don't think I have ever experienced 'true love' before, so I couldn't really say

Ultimately I could re-route such motivation to a purely selfish goal as well, because instinctively a person begins to relate the happiness of their partner to their own, but I think that belongs in another forum, or at least another thread.



tl,dr: FunkyZombie is not the 'exception to the rule', just smart enough to spot blatant flattery like everyone else, I agree with OP, I know nothing about love.

Edit: I have accidentally interchanged vanity with self interest or egotism. I'm sorry, I know there is a difference, but vanity is caused by egotism.

[Mr.Happy]

Personally the quickest way to make me skeptical of your motives is to attempt to appeal to my vanity.

I get suspicious when ever someone tries to convince me of something by telling me how clever, handsome, or special I am. It makes me think you're up to something.

I acknowledge that I am an exception and the rule however.

No offence, dude, but I bet it works great on you. You seem like you think you're a cut above, smarter than a lot of people, more perceptive or just less susceptible to shit like this. Not an uncommon way to think.

But I doubt you are. Most people will be suspicious if somebody tells you how clever, handsome or special you are. That kind of compliment is obvious, and people making them to try to win you over aren't very good at what they do.

See, what you don't realize is all the times it has worked on you and you don't notice. Nobody is immune to this stuff; like somebody up there said, everybody has their weaknesses. If I'd responded to this post with something like "yeah, me too. It's nice to be able to spot these things, it makes me laugh when I see how easily some people fall victim to cheap flattery", I doubt you'd be suspicious and you'd certainly be a bit more positively disposed towards me. I've given you a bit of confirmation that you're right, corroborating the positive way in which you think of yourself. See the distinction between that and guileless, generic compliments?

The best way to butter somebody up is to figure out what they're a little proud of in themselves, or to identify something that they're a teeny bit insecure about. I'll leave you to figure out what those are yourself, but that's the bulls-eye. If people are unsure about something themselves (like how new clothes or hair look), they'll be looking for validation that it does look good. If somebody's been working out to look good or using an acne treatment, noticing the different will go down well as long as you're not ludicrously heavy-handed about it ("dude, you're looking way buff lately!"). People aren't generally suspicious unless they have a reason to be.

Unlike you, I acknowledge that I am just as susceptible to this as everybody else. Sometimes I can spot when people are being insincere, but I'm plenty sure there are many times where I haven't and have fallen victim to an appeal to vanity.

But hey, it's all part of being a social animal.

(also, nothing personal)

EDIT: Didn't see Master_of_Ceremonies' post when I hit reply, but he's getting at some of the same things as I.

[-MC]

wow mr. happy, great minds think alike ;)

[Mr.Happy]

^ lol y u appeal to my vanity

[-MC]

nudy pikchers?

[The Methematician]

appeals ARE vanity ...

[Raziel]

I'm starting a serious discussion

I wish you the best of luck, unfortunately, you're gonna need it.

[i poop in your cereal]

This only works on people with down syndrome.

EDIT: And hysterically insecure females.