Macing LP's.

[driveby]

If I get caught for shoplifting, do you think I will be charged with maceing them? I got caught before, and threw them to the ground when they tried to whip me, but only got $500 fine. It is either a $500 fine, or up to 6 months in jail. I went through some kind of adult diversion before once, what will I get if caught? This is do, or die, but I don't want to go to jail for more them a few weeks.

[Syndicate Pie]

do you think I will be charged with maceing them?

Most definitely. You're fucking macing them.

what will I get if caught?

You will get kicked out and charged, arrested, fined...

[heroinbob]

You will get charged for macing the guy fined for stealing kicked out the store and arrested.. what ever happened to you wanting to rob an armed car..lol

[fishmonger]

If it's a one on one type of situation and you dont have any physical handicaps you should be able to mace him and get away but if they have multiple LP's/employees that rush you it might be game over.

[plutomic]

you should conceal a gun.. and if you think LP is lurking outside, whip it out.. they wouldn't even dare.. and if they don't know you have a gun until you leave, then you have like a 10 minute time frame to GTFO.

I've been caught shoplifting twice, and i have to say, the LP are a lot more noticeable than you think. If you happen to keep seeing the same person, everywhere you go, then you got yourself an undercover LP... Hell, even regular employees will try to be slick about following you...

and usually they will have 1 or 2 LP waiting outside, and then have another come from behind, so you could simply watch your back on the way out, and if you see anybody moving unusually fast towards you,run..

Also, if you happen to stop seeing employees in your area when you are about to lift, then they know, and the ordered the employees to leave the area so youll steal and will get caught..

So either bring a gun, or bust out an emergency exit:) youll take them totally off guard if you go through an emergency exit.

[stdismas]

Except then they've got you on camera *pulling out a gun* over a shoplifting charge, and will call the police with your license plate number, or description and last known direction you were heading on foot. :facepalm:

[a334jv2df]

Why would you need to mace anyone? Just take the item you want, walk to the front of the store as if to pay, and walk out the front door. Have a bike sitting outside that you can hop on and leave.

[driveby]

You will get charged for macing the guy fined for stealing kicked out the store and arrested.. what ever happened to you wanting to rob an armed car..lol

I was trying to find out if they had GPS, ect, they did, so not an option, plus, I have no gun, it was stolen by pigs, I caught a class 4 felony yesterday.

Except then they've got you on camera *pulling out a gun* over a shoplifting charge, and will call the police with your license plate number, or description and last known direction you were heading on foot.

Yes, because we're sure to make sure people see the car, since we know they can't get the license plate, or recognize you on camera if it is just shoplifting. :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:

you should conceal a gun.. and if you think LP is lurking outside, whip it out.. they wouldn't even dare.. and if they don't know you have a gun until you leave, then you have like a 10 minute time frame to GTFO.

I've been caught shoplifting twice, and i have to say, the LP are a lot more noticeable than you think. If you happen to keep seeing the same person, everywhere you go, then you got yourself an undercover LP... Hell, even regular employees will try to be slick about following you...

and usually they will have 1 or 2 LP waiting outside, and then have another come from behind, so you could simply watch your back on the way out, and if you see anybody moving unusually fast towards you,run..

Also, if you happen to stop seeing employees in your area when you are about to lift, then they know, and the ordered the employees to leave the area so youll steal and will get caught..

So either bring a gun, or bust out an emergency exit youll take them totally off guard if you go through an emergency exit.
One problem: Armed robbery. And the pigs took my gun yesterday.

[stdismas]

Seriously, though...if you did try to pull that (say at Target), when the undercover was coming up on you there'd most likely be a TPS zooming in on your face a few times to make sure they got a face shot. It's standard procedure. At the very least there'd be a few live cameras all pointed at the exit from close-up. When you pulled a gun enough for them to see it, the TPS would grab the phone and call the cops. Not to mention all the other people back at the registers that would probably see you draw the gun, scream, or whip out their cells. And as you left to your car, if it's anywhere near their parking lot, they'd be zooming in the camera to catch your plate. If you left on foot, they'd still have your description, clothing, race, gender, and direction you were heading. You'd be fucked, and there's nothing expensive enough you could carry by yourself worth that kind of arrest charge. I know what I'm talking about, I used to work their security, and we'd do it even if it was just a knife...and nobody ever slipped away after we called the cops.

[driveby]

They can't see the parking lot on camera from the store, if there's no visible cameras, can they?

[driveby]

I think I made this before, but didn't pay attention because I planned it, then got caught for something else.

I am on pre trial conference, so there can be absolutely no chance I will be caught for this. But it is the only way to make big money, instantly.

Will the small, blue thin spray line mace cannisters be enough to stop all of the LP? Will there be any there? Is LP a type of pig?

OK, they have a fuckload of 32 inch LCD TV's, for $1,000 each. My plan, is to put 3 to 5, or more, if I can fit, into a carriage, and leave. Then, if they try to follow me, spray them in the face, or if it is just one, beat him up. then, my car would be blocked by other cars, but parked relatively close to the front. No one who saw the incident, can see me load it up, and drive off. Then, I can probably stack them so they cant be seen in the car. Tehn, go to the library, and sell them at $750 each, on craigslist, and try to get everyone to meet me at the parking lot there at the same time, so I can get it all unloaded. I went there yesterdasy, and located what I wanted to steal. No one gave two shits about me, or watched me. So, I could grab the shit, and leave in seconds.

What are the odds I would get caught for this, if executed exactly as stated above?

[driveby]

I will go home, then come back tommorrow. I hope there is advice by then.

[Bender]

Macing LP and having a better chance of getting away>500$ fine 6 months in jail.

Or pay for your shit. =]

[stdismas]

They can't see the parking lot on camera from the store, if there's no visible cameras, can they?

I'm not sure what store you're planning on, but if it's Target, Walmart or one of those other major retailers, I've never seen one that didn't have cameras on the roof pointed at the lot. I know for definitely sure every Target and SuperTarget in the US has two movable, zoomable cameras up there, for exactly that reason.

[driveby]

Best Buy had no visible cameras. Wal Mart has them mounted on the streetlight poles. But none pointed at the lot, in the front. Dude that killed Pandora, I need this for money, and it is less time in jail then Robbery, but if I get caught, it isn't really. Are the LP definately going to chase, or is there a chance they won't? This is my only option. I can not get my gun back, for felony charges pending, I called them. I am going to try to scrape together enough cash to get a .22. But I need to do this. What percent chance is there I will be caught?

Like, there were 4, when I stole from a Mens wearhouse, I threw them all on the ground, but they grabbed my feet, and I dragged them on the parking lot as I walked. LOL The 5th one just pushed me slightly, and I lost my balance from them pulling. Then the pigs came like 10 minutes later. How does bear mace work? Does it make a huge cloud, incapacitating anyone within a 5 foot radius? I can spray the thin line mace from a distance, but it is a thin line, and what if I get jumped, before the line hits all their eyes, and noses.

What advice do you guys have?

[freeRadical]

Best Buy had no visible cameras. Wal Mart has them mounted on the streetlight poles. But none pointed at the lot, in the front. Dude that killed Pandora, I need this for money, and it is less time in jail then Robbery, but if I get caught, it isn't really. Are the LP definately going to chase, or is there a chance they won't? This is my only option. I can not get my gun back, for felony charges pending, I called them. I am going to try to scrape together enough cash to get a .22. But I need to do this. What percent chance is there I will be caught?

Like, there were 4, when I stole from a Mens wearhouse, I threw them all on the ground, but they grabbed my feet, and I dragged them on the parking lot as I walked. LOL The 5th one just pushed me slightly, and I lost my balance from them pulling. Then the pigs came like 10 minutes later. How does bear mace work? Does it make a huge cloud, incapacitating anyone within a 5 foot radius? I can spray the thin line mace from a distance, but it is a thin line, and what if I get jumped, before the line hits all their eyes, and noses.

What advice do you guys have?

My advice is to not feed the troll.
:facepalm:

P.S. I call bullshit on everything you've "claimed" to have done in this thread.

[LPonTheTake]

First of all, there's no charge specific to "macing". It all depends on, if caught, how hard the store and your prosecuting attorney want to push it. It's assault/battery at the least. If you really hurt the guy/girl, it's going to turn into A&B with aggravated circumstances. There's a whole variety of legal mechanisms they can push on you if they want to, and that's not even counting the civil suit the company or even the insurer may or may not bring on you for recovery of whatever they have to pay in worker's compensation costs, missed production, and so forth. On top of that, you're probably looking at a civil suit from the individual that you hit with mace also. Where are you trying to boost from? Most companies have policies that strictly forbid them to touch you, so if they do you have great grounds to sue and get a fuck ton of money.

[freeRadical]

First of all, there's no charge specific to "macing". It all depends on, if caught, how hard the store and your prosecuting attorney want to push it. It's assault/battery at the least. If you really hurt the guy/girl, it's going to turn into A&B with aggravated circumstances. There's a whole variety of legal mechanisms they can push on you if they want to, and that's not even counting the civil suit the company or even the insurer may or may not bring on you for recovery of whatever they have to pay in worker's compensation costs, missed production, and so forth. On top of that, you're probably looking at a civil suit from the individual that you hit with mace also. Where are you trying to boost from? Most companies have policies that strictly forbid them to touch you, so if they do you have great grounds to sue and get a fuck ton of money.

I am really starting to think you're a fucking fed. And what are you talking about? He's not planning on committing a crime because that is against the rules.

[driveby]

First of all, there's no charge specific to "macing". It all depends on, if caught, how hard the store and your prosecuting attorney want to push it. It's assault/battery at the least. If you really hurt the guy/girl, it's going to turn into A&B with aggravated circumstances. There's a whole variety of legal mechanisms they can push on you if they want to, and that's not even counting the civil suit the company or even the insurer may or may not bring on you for recovery of whatever they have to pay in worker's compensation costs, missed production, and so forth. On top of that, you're probably looking at a civil suit from the individual that you hit with mace also. Where are you trying to boost from? Most companies have policies that strictly forbid them to touch you, so if they do you have great grounds to sue and get a fuck ton of money.

Best Buy. I think you can help me. I live in the phoenix area, do you know what would be the best way to do this?

My advice is to not feed the troll.


P.S. I call bullshit on everything you've "claimed" to have done in this thread.

I wish someone would delete this post.

[driveby]

I am really starting to think you're a fucking fed. And what are you talking about? He's not planning on committing a crime because that is against the rules.

Shut the fuck up. You are another Pill Popper. Do you seriously have nothing better to do then make these posts?

Anyway, let's all just ignore this poster.

[Macgruber]

dude this guy admits he go caught trying to cash in a nigerian check, I think this guy is no bs

[driveby]

And that's why I can't get caught. I can't believe I didn't just ask for it back, and leave. But, I need money, I don't give a fuck about a felony case. I have pretrial conference, so if I violate, I go to jail for a few weeks, then, they throw the book at me, which I think is a year in prison.

Then my plan is to get a fake ID with some stolen info, and get like $5,000 in nigerian checks sent, and then, try to make like $5,000 a week.

[freeRadical]

Best Buy. I think you can help me. I live in the phoenix area, do you know what would be the best way to do this?



I wish someone would delete this post.

Cause you know I'm right.

[driveby]

About what? Why don't you just give me information?

[LPonTheTake]

I am really starting to think you're a fucking fed. And what are you talking about? He's not planning on committing a crime because that is against the rules.


I don't give a fuck if he is or if he isn't dude. He could be writing a cool new novel for all I care. Do you honestly think federal law enforcement officials give a flying fuck about shoplifting? Unless it can be construed into a RICO predicate, they don't. Good god you can't be this retarded, can you?


driveby: you're good to go on BestBuy. I can't think of a BB in the tri-state area of KY that has more than 2 LP on duty at a time. Of course if you're in a high-shrink city like Detroit or Atlanta, there's probably going to be a few more. But nothing significant, BB really doesn't take their LP program that serious. Some more advice is buy something on your way out. A CD, DVD, whatever. People don't realize how much this decreases the chance of a stop. It's almost full proof, honestly. Also, I'm going to assume you're a male. If you feel spooked, walk around for awhile and look for familiar faces in aisles or areas near you. Then, go to the bathroom and take a piss. If someone comes in that looks familiar and leaves shortly after you, chances are they are onto you. Go into a stall, too and about 3 seconds after you walk out, go right back in really quick and see if that guy is checking your stall for merchandise tags/boxes. Companies are very, very strict and wary of stops after someone has entered a bathroom or fitting room, because it disconnects the chain of continuous observation (a critical component in any LP-related stop.) BB can't use any type of force though. They can follow you to your car and snag your license # though. But if you wanted to be a real prick, park unusually far away (like across the street) I know of NO LP personnel in any store where the parent company authorizes them to walk any further than the parking lot. It creates too much liability on their part.

[freeRadical]

I don't give a fuck if he is or if he isn't dude. He could be writing a cool new novel for all I care. Do you honestly think federal law enforcement officials give a flying fuck about shoplifting? Unless it can be construed into a RICO predicate, they don't. Good god you can't be this retarded, can you?


driveby: you're good to go on BestBuy. I can't think of a BB in the tri-state area of KY that has more than 2 LP on duty at a time. Of course if you're in a high-shrink city like Detroit or Atlanta, there's probably going to be a few more. But nothing significant, BB really doesn't take their LP program that serious. Some more advice is buy something on your way out. A CD, DVD, whatever. People don't realize how much this decreases the chance of a stop. It's almost full proof, honestly. Also, I'm going to assume you're a male. If you feel spooked, walk around for awhile and look for familiar faces in aisles or areas near you. Then, go to the bathroom and take a piss. If someone comes in that looks familiar and leaves shortly after you, chances are they are onto you. Go into a stall, too and about 3 seconds after you walk out, go right back in really quick and see if that guy is checking your stall for merchandise tags/boxes. Companies are very, very strict and wary of stops after someone has entered a bathroom or fitting room, because it disconnects the chain of continuous observation (a critical component in any LP-related stop.) BB can't use any type of force though. They can follow you to your car and snag your license # though. But if you wanted to be a real prick, park unusually far away (like across the street) I know of NO LP personnel in any store where the parent company authorizes them to walk any further than the parking lot. It creates too much liability on their part.

I don't know why you keep saying loss prevention agents can't use force. They can and they will if they have to.


Professional loss prevention agents charged with the responsibility of taking people into custody should be trained in the concept of the Use of Force Continuum. This is the natural progression of the application of reasonable force as the circumstances dictate. Lawful force can escalate to a reasonable level and then deescalate as the situation calms. Handcuffs are sometimes used to restrain violent or aggressive shoplifters when escape and employee or customer injury is a REAL possibility. Handcuffs should be used with discretion. Loss prevention agents must be properly trained in the use of handcuffs and know when and how to apply handcuffs. Handcuffs should always be "double-locked" when it is safe to do so.

Source: http://www.crimedoctor.com/shoplifting2.htm


California Penal Code Section 490.5
Retailers have a qualified privilege to detain a suspected shoplifter. Penal Code section 490.5(f) contains the statutory privilege that allows retailers to detain for a reasonable time a suspected shoplifter for the purposes of conducting an investigation, including the use of a reasonable amount of non-deadly force to affect the detention of the suspected shoplifter. The qualified statutory privilege also allows the retailer to make a limited and reasonable search of bags or packages in the possession of the suspected shoplifter. The retailer's conduct is privileged provided they have probable cause to believe the suspect was shoplifting.

Source: http://www.specops-intl.com/loss-prevention.php


Even if an accused shoplifter can prove all the elements of a false imprisonment claim, the retailer might have an out: most American jurisdictions recognize a limited “shopkeeper’s privilege” exception to the false imprisonment tort. Many states have enacted the common-law privilege as positive law (for example, Oregon’s law is ORS 131.655). In either form, the shopkeeper’s privilege allows a retailer to detain suspected shoplifters and inspect their personal property for stolen items. Such a detention will not be punished as false imprisonment as long as it is limited to a reasonable (short) time, takes place in the store, if the force used to detain the suspect is reasonable, and if the retailer had the reasonable belief (often defined in this context as equivalent to probable cause) that the suspect was attempting to steal or had already stolen something from the store. In practice, this last condition generally means retailers must actually see someone take an item and exit the store without paying for it before they attempt to confront the suspected thief.

http://www.thelegality.com/archives/36

[LPonTheTake]

It took you long enough to google "loss prevention" and subsequently find your Ctrl+V function. Unfortunately for you, your shit can be refuted.

Legally speaking (which I know confuses you), sure they can use force. COMPANY FUCKING POLICY, as I said, prohibits many from doing so and thus they won't because of job security in an otherwise downtrodden economy, to say the least. Furthermore, I suggest you look up case law.. not the top 5 links from a simple Google search. There are certain circumstances in which an LPO can use force.

They aren't commissioned officers of the law, and thus law doesn't protect them in that way, especially tort law. Reasonable force is a very ambiguous phrase in terms of civil and criminal law. If I walk up to you and poke you in the chest, that's battery any way you slice it. In its most simplest terms, it's unconsented touching of another. Not only is that a crime, it's a tort (private wrong) as well. The burden of proof in civil law is "upon a preponderance of the evidence" whereas criminal law is "beyond a reasonable doubt". You really should look up procedural law and the difference it has in criminal and civil law. I'm not saying they won't take you down and you won't be arrested. I'm alluding to the likelihood, or lack thereof, of such a thing happening in a given chain (e.g. Macy's). Don't say shit, take it like a man, and hire a decent lawyer to sue. The good thing about tort lawyers is they don't ask for money up front. They take the case if they think they can win, and then take 1/3 (generally) of the damages recovered. The funny thing is, it never EVER goes to court hardly. Companies see lawsuits (against LP) as particularly bothersome both financially and in terms of company image. They'll settle. You referring to California Penal Code (CPC) is irrelevant because it only mandates shit in the state of California, not any other state or the US as a whole like federal statutes do. But to refute that law, the retailer must prove (BEYOND A REASONABLE FUCKING DOUBT) they had probably cause to search or do whatever it is to do. A jury typically consists of 12 (sometimes 9) people. Guess how many it takes to cast a reasonable doubt? Only 1.

The point is, a lot of states provide statutes that allow "reasonable/non-deadly force" to detain shoplifters that that doesn't mean it's smart and that retailers adhere to that. It's much easier for them to prohibit their LPOs from doing it than face a metric shit-ton of litigation and settlement costs from a measly $200 theft. It's cost-benefit analysis.

Elements of proving the tort of false imprisonment are as follows:

* An "Act". The act must be physical and volitional.
* An Intent to confine the other or a third person within boundaries fixed by the actor
* Confinement actually occurs
* The act caused the confinement
* The person confined is aware of their confinement or harmed by it

Furthermore, the plaintiff need only prove [in a civil suit] (1) willful detention; (2) without consent; and (3) without authority of law.

The test of liability isn't based on the booster's guilt or innocence, but instead on the reasonableness of the retailer's action under the circumstances; the trier of fact (read: jury) determines whether reasonable belief is established.


I suggest you read Prosser on Torts. You honestly know jack shit about the law, dude.

[driveby]

OK, so this "no touch policy" is pretty much nationwide, correct? And, do they have people watching the cameras? I am asking because I have no choice but to do this, and I want to make sure I have everything planned by the time comes when I will do it.

[Maitreya's Asassin]

O.K., if the merchandise is going to be blatantly removed from the store, in a shopping cart, for all to see will this make the LP do the chase/jump shit, or will they allow the person to leave the store, and just call the cops? Would they gather around the front door, or lock it?

[DEADBEATDAD]

What if a LP THOUGHT you were stealing and pursued you after you walked out the door and tried to use force to stop you? (you were just in the store buying some items, no shoplifting whatsoever.

If some faggot tried to force stop me without asking questions I would not think twice about macing or pulling my (legal) concealed firearm.

[b00m]

Get a fucking Job. Or at least apply for social security. Your a fucking retard. That LPonTheTake guy is obviously close to the legal system, since he can recite all that shit by heart. My guess is he is a Cop, but I want you to fail so you should listen to whatever he tells you to do. Even if it sounds to good to be true.

[Optionryder420]

What if a LP THOUGHT you were stealing and pursued you after you walked out the door and tried to use force to stop you? (you were just in the store buying some items, no shoplifting whatsoever.

If some faggot tried to force stop me without asking questions I would not think twice about macing or pulling my (legal) concealed firearm.

Legal concealed firearm in california? I call Shenanigans!

Not to mention, it'd be very illegal for you to pull your firearm on them, ESPECIALLY in California.

[driveby]

Get a fucking Job. Or at least apply for social security. Your a fucking retard. That LPonTheTake guy is obviously close to the legal system, since he can recite all that shit by heart. My guess is he is a Cop, but I want you to fail so you should listen to whatever he tells you to do. Even if it sounds to good to be true.

Give it up, retard. No matter how much you flame me, it will not compensate for your child-like idiocy.

On topic, shoplifting is a terrible idea, since it is impossible to sell the shit.

[totse]

Give it up, retard. No matter how much you flame me, it will not compensate for your child-like idiocy.

On topic, shoplifting is a terrible idea, since it is impossible to sell the shit.

LOL, you're fucking stupid.