Civilian ARs

[b00m]

I am wondering for those of you that have them, what you prefer?

I have read a lot about the S&W M&P15T Rifle. I am waiting to get to go to a range and shoot one though.

So just wondering on that.

Also, What does a Class 3 firearms license entail? Is that even the right license.

I am interested in the selling, owning, and handling of Law Enforcement and Military firearms. (Thats what I'm thinking the Class 3 License is.)

If I am way off please lead me to the correct Information.

I have no criminal record except some traffic violations. Other than that my record is clean.

Any and all help will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
-b00m

[senshido]

Ar15s are a wide and varied lot. The smith and wesson is a good choice as are the Bushmasters, DPMS, Rock Rivers, and many other brands. Ultimately it is your decision and also according to how much you are willing to fork out. There is no Class 3 permit, only Class 3 weapons, which include fully automatic weapons, short barrelled rifles and shotguns, suppressors, and calibers larger than .50, among other things. As long as you have no felonies you should be fine, provided your state has not banned the item you wish to purchase.

[b00m]

Ok, for the class 3 weapons is there anything I have to go through to get them? Like courses and such?

Thanks
-b00m

[reggie_love]

You need to look into the NFA (National Firearms Act of 1934). Class 3 items are just a modern division of NFA items.
Off of the top of my head the NFA regulates
•Short barreled rifles
•Short barreled shotguns
•"Destructive Devices"
•Full-auto firearms
•AOWs ("any other weapon," refers to nonstandard firearms like pen-guns and sneaky things like that).
•Suppressors

To get those things, you have to register them with the ATF, which means giving them your clean record, your fingerprints, things of that nature. You'll also need to get approval from your local sheriff or police chief or something, I'm a little fuzzy on those specifics, and NFA items may be banned by separately by state law, so you need to check that as well. You'll also need to send them a tax stamp and possibly a transfer fee, the price of which depends on the item.

Important caveat: fully automatic firearms are now essentially illegal, since you're not allowed to register anything made after 1986. This means that the only legally transferrable ones (for civilians) are leftovers from before 1986, which means that the supply pool is fixed and therefore you should expect to shell out $10,000+ for one of those.

The class 3 license comes into play for manufacturers and dealers. For regular individuals, you have to deal with the NFA (of course, law enforcement, private security, and even paramilitary companies are exempt :facepalm:).

[b00m]

What I am really looking into is start interning and learning the ropes with Bail Bondsmans and Bail Enforcement Agents, and I am going to be getting my Protective Agent license and then from there I am hoping to get into Private Security and Security Contracting.

btw, I am 18 right now, if you are wondering, and I have Web Design and Graphic arts to fall back on.

But, I am very familiar with most firearms (By reading, parents dont allow firearms in the house right now. I have shot a few rifles handguns and shotguns out in south dakota, I'm pretty good at trap.) I know my way around expl0sives and I am very familiar with tactics and operations.

thats a little background on me :)

anyways, thanks with the help so far I appreciate it greatly!
-b00m

[Random_Looney]

M&P15 AR-15 versions for Smith and Wesson use primarily CMT (Continental Machine and Tool) parts, which are the same parts that go into Stag, Rock River, etc.

They are excellent rifles.

[Mephistos Minion]

I am 18 right now

But, I am very familiar with most firearms (By reading, parents dont allow firearms in the house right now. I have shot a few rifles handguns and shotguns) I know my way around expl0sives and I am very familiar with tactics and operations.



Paraphrased, to get the important parts of what I am about to say.

1: You are going to need to be A LOT more familiar with "most firearms". I am a qualified soldier and recreational hunter, and the only firearms I am familiar enough to bet my life on are: My bolt action Mauser in 30-06, my Browing HP, and two firearms (both full auto) which I use in my job in the army. This is all practical experience, not from reading.

Don't get me wrong, read, know, do. It is a great motto, but as soon as you can mate, get to the range, choose a gun that fits you well, and get familiar with that sucker. I a talking every single malfunction it can possibly have, learn how to fix it and fast, learn how to shoot it instinctivly as well as deliberatly. You need to know everything you can about that firearm, even how it sounds when you go through various functions and stoppages, so you know what's wrong with it just by listening to it (think night time).

Explosives: Drop the zero mate, seriously. I doubt you are going to rig up claymores to take down a fugitive, or need to disarm an explosive yourself as a private security operator, but I suppose knowledge cant hurt. Get an explosives licence, or military experience with them, or you won't know the tip of the iceburg when it comes to them.


Tactics and operations: Of what? Minor infantry tactics? Armoured vehicle formations? Ambush? Harbours? Patrolling? This is not something you can read and expect to pull off. You need to shake it off on the ground and rehearse it with whoever you are working with, or it will all go to shit.

I'm not trying to shoot you down, as much as it may seem like it, but mate, you need to get more practical experience in all those fields, I suggest the military (I am not from the US army, and I'm not recruiting, but it makes sense).

[b00m]

^ I gotcha, you have alot of good points

- I put the 0 in expl0sives for other reasons than to look like a badass.

- I know you said you need to DO not so much read. But reading is a start and I have read almost every military oriented book at the Woodbury Public Library. And I Also have my own personal book collection on Military operations, I have subscriptions to most law enforcement and military magazines.

Now I AM NOT SAYING THAT I AM GOD OR AM SUPER FUCKING AMAZING BECAUSE I READ, but it is a good place to start.

I move out in a couple of months and I am already looking at some shotguns.

Also I am wondering I live in Minnesota, can I buy a used a handgun if I am under 21? What about AR? If it is used can I buy it if I am under 21?

The reason I ask is then because I can start getting familiar with the types of guns I am going to be handling.

If I sound like a poser, sorry, I have had a very sheltered life, over protective parents, but anyways I appreciate your help.

- b00m

[Mephistos Minion]

Like I said, read, know do, reading is the first part. Shit dude if it is a career you are seriously looking at you are talking the right steps, you can choose your family I understand that. I am lucky in that I was brought up with guns and the military, so I kinda just fell into it.

You can make yourself whatever you want. The only reason olympic athletes are at the level they are is the training they do. If you train hard enough, and are committed enough, you can do anything.

[b00m]

Lol, thanks =)

[Random_Looney]

Also I am wondering I live in Minnesota, can I buy a used a handgun if I am under 21? What about AR? If it is used can I buy it if I am under 21?

Federal law states you have to be 21 to buy a handgun from a dealer. You have to be 18 to purchase a longarm from a dealer. In some state, you can buy a firearm private party (private party sale), including handguns, after the age of 18.

State laws vary. Whether a firearm is used or not has absolutely no bearing on whether or not it can be sold to someone of any age.

Now, since state laws vary, start here:

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/statelaws/22ndedition/minnesota.pdf

[b00m]

Gotcha, thanks for the lead.

[Vargus]

I am wondering for those of you that have them, what you prefer?

I have what amounts to an M16A2 with a Century lower. As long as you don't get a cast piece of shit lower receiver I don't see the point of buying by brand. Well, that and whether or not you are buying non-milspec parts like uppers and bolt carriers and whatnot.

[ilovechronic]

No license is required in my state. All you need to do is pass a normal backround check(NICS) to get the rifle and it is cosidered a LONG GUN even if it is the carbine model.

i built my 2 ar15s from a kit orderd off the net. then I just go to the local gun shop and buy a stripped lower receiver and do the quick build.

Good luck finding one for a decent price and good luck finding any kits in stock. You are about 6 months too late man.

[Vargus]

You are about 6 months too late man.

Damn Obama and him banning guns before he even became President! :mad:

[Struwwelpeter]

I like to take it up the ass.

Obama supported a bill which restricted the ownership of firearms in his home state.

He's most likely going to sign one this year which will do the same at a national level.

deplorable

[AnalHerpes]

Some lowers have extremely tight mag wells and don't let certain mags drop free and if they're slightly out of spec (the mag well or the mag itself) they may not fit at all. Also, if you're looking to eventually install a RDIAS you need to get a low shelf lower.

[ilovechronic]

Some lowers have extremely tight mag wells and don't let certain mags drop free and if they're slightly out of spec (the mag well or the mag itself) they may not fit at all. Also, if you're looking to eventually install a RDIAS you need to get a low shelf lower.

you can file or grind down the mag catch(the bump on the mag) a tiny bit and it may fix the problem. But like you said it can also just be a tight lower.

[AnalHerpes]

I have a Superior Arms which is known for tight mag wells and I almost have to force one of my aluminum 20 rounders in there. It's not too big of a deal, just slightly annoying.

[Vargus]

I have a Superior Arms which is known for tight mag wells and I almost have to force one of my aluminum 20 rounders in there. It's not too big of a deal, just slightly annoying.

You can either file on the mag or the well to fix that. Usually the wells are broached when they are machined, and if it's common for that manufacturer to have tight wells it means their broaches aren't large enough to scrape enough metal out to get proper clearance.

[Vargus]

Been looking at figuring out a mold for mags, floor plates, and followers. It would be based on Thermold mags because they look really easy to make. Never have been too wild about the aluminum GI mags or expensive steel ones. If I could get my hands on a PMag that would be awesome to model.

[ilovechronic]

i just orderd 7 C-products steel magazines. 3, 20 rounders and 4,30 rounders. The 20 rounders are straight style and they have a more glossy black finish. They come magpul self level enhanced followers that are orange. They work pretty well. 2 did not drop free but that was fixed by grinding down the mag catch a little on the mag. And it seems that on a couple the follower pops the last round out and the bolt catch engages. But I think i can fix that. Over all they are great mags and like perfect mill spec besides the finish being different. And they are 13.99 for a mag and they are STEEL. Just as light weight as the aluminum mags. That is my little review on cproducts mags.
I bought them here.
http://palmettostatearmory.com/c-product-223.php
Also they have 5.7x28 uppers in stock and they function with p90 magazines i believe. Or atleast they are similar. They look really cool, I may get on just for kicks.
http://palmettostatearmory.com/57x28-upper.php

Oh and they have 5.45x39 uppers in stock if anyone is looking for a 5.45. I just emailed them about their uppers but they dont have any 5.56 uppers or .223.
This is just a source for you guys who are scurrying to get mags and uppers before any laws are passed.


i have one US GI mag with green follower and it did not drop free so I grinded the mag catch on the mag.

Another mag producer that have functioned flawlesly for me has been tapco magazines. I have both kinds of their mags(both finishes) and they work flawlessly. They drop freely and feed without any modification. They are my first choisce in mags and they are also in the 13 dollar range for aluminum mags. Their steels are a little more. however tapco has haulted retail sales on their website and have decided to become a wholesaler/manufacture and has expanded. I have not been able to find any tapco magazines for the ar15 on their magazine upgrade kits. Tapco was my first choice but i could not find them.

I have heard good things about magpul but never tried them.

So that is a little review on some of the magazines I have used. You cant really go wrong with the name brand colt bushmaster, dpms, mags but they are more expensive.

As for the upper, assuming you want to build one which i would suggest because it will be way cheaper. You are going to have to call around for a upper receiver where everyou can. Make sure you call and check that it is in stock so you dont end up waiting for weeks or months.
www.model1sales.com makes upper receiver kits which come with everything you need minus a stripped lower receiver. A stripped lower receiver even know it is not built up yet it is considered the firearm so you have to either order one and get it transfered through a ffl(local gun dealer)(which will probably have a wait unless you shop around) or find a local gun dealer that has one in stock. It may be hard to find one because of this current gun crisis. People are nuying stripped lowers by the dozen.

Good internals are important, I just bought a ar15 kit from M-aparts.com(they auit selling uppers) and it came with decent internals. But my second kit the trigger was out of spec. The upper and lower are basically parts holders, as long as they are in proper spec it really doesnt matter but things like the finish may vary which may be a big deal to some one wanting it to look cool. So it may be good idea to invest in name brand internals like the trigger and mayber even the bolt carrier.
My second kit was bult from a http://www.jtdistributing.net/index.html kit. i have never had a problem with the bolt carrier that came with it.

So when i day build a rifle what exactly do i mean?
I mean you order a completely assembled upper receiver and then you buy a stripped lower receiver from your local gun dealer(fll holder) or order one to be transfered by your local gundealer(ffl holder). Assuming it is legal to own in your state(check your local laws)
So the upper is complete so what do you build?
Well you actually do some assembling more than building, you assemble the stripped lower reciever with either your lower parts kit if you orderd a ar15 rifle kit like this: http://www.jtdistributing.net/store/kits_all.html or you buy a complete upper of your choice/bolt carrier group/and lower parts kit.
Now you assemble the lower parts kit into the stripped lower recever. You dont need many tools you just need a few hand tools and a good guide.
Here is a guide:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=4&t=226782
http://www.ar15.com/content/guides/assembly/lower/
If you have problems with your build you can post here:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/forum.html?b=3&f=4

Here is a index of guides for your ar15 rife:
http://www.ar15.com/content/index.html#guides
If you are getting into ar15 it may be a good idea to become a memeber here and these guys may be able to help your bcause there is alot more owners here:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/board.html?b=3
This is a list of dealers and vendors who sell parts,uppers,complete uppers, and ar15 kits. There are many more dealers you just have to searc around the web:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/board.html?b=2

It may be hard to find a upper and lower right now but you have to just shop around because someone will have them in stock. Research research research.
Good luck, I hope this helps. If you do not live in he US then you may not be able to get these ar15 kits.

My carbine which was built from a CAR15 kit has performed just as well as my friends factory bushmaster m4. I have had no issues with it. http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w148/rp1111_2007/IMG_0089.jpg
It has:
-costed about 650 with out the red dot and can cost alot more, all depends on the parts you get. You could still probably build a budget rifle.

-burris extreme tactcal reddot
-ergo grip
-originally camewith a CAR15 5position stock but i sitched it for my tapco 6 position stock but it is on the 5 position tube
this is the old stock:http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w148/rp1111_2007/IMG_0014.jpg
-dpms lower
-http://www.m-aparts.com/productsDetail.asp?id=109 upper receiver kit(no longer available)
-burris extreme tactical 30mm scope ring
-yhm riser to cowitness red dot with the stights
-promag flip up rear sight
-16inch heavy barrel, chambered in 5.56x45, 1/9 twist rate

My second ar15 build is a target/coyote rifle, it has:
costed about 1250 probably costs more now.
-24inch bull barrel(stainless steel, chambered n 5.56x45, 1-8 twist rate)
-aluminum freefloat handguard
-weaver classic v24 6-24x42 mil-dot recticle with objective.
-burris extreme tactical 1 inch scope rings
-CAA grip
-a2 stock
-harris bi pod
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w148/rp1111_2007/IMG_0022-1.jpg

[ilovechronic]

Been looking at figuring out a mold for mags, floor plates, and followers. It would be based on Thermold mags because they look really easy to make. Never have been too wild about the aluminum GI mags or expensive steel ones. If I could get my hands on a PMag that would be awesome to model.

c products mags are cheap and work pretty darn well. on 13.99 for steel ones.http://palmettostatearmory.com/c-product-223.php
All 7 of mine fucntion properly except the one mag that had the last round pop out of the mag and the mag catch caught. And the two that didnt drop free. Which is an issue i have had with usgi mags. i give them a 7.5 out of 10. c products makes decent mags for the money and they are in proper spec. i could send the 2 back but i am happy with how they work. they are much better than the fucking shitty national magazine brand mags I orderd from sportsmansguide, they had misleading reviews on their site. I sent those pups right back and got my 38$ back.
Tapco are great I give them 10 out of 10.

i wonder how the magpul pmags work. i have heard good things and when they are available they are pretty cheap.

[Vargus]

i wonder how the magpul pmags work. i have heard good things and when they are available they are pretty cheap.

I've heard the same thing. Have you seen the torture testing some army boys put on youtube? I've also heard that someone used an M249 and fed it 11 PMags before a case separation stopped the test, and the M16 mag port is nortoriously unreliable on that weapon.

I'd just sooner mold my own mags or bend my own out of sheet steel. The plastic mags are something I can hack because I've got two Thermolds, but no steel mags.

[b00m]

what about the new HK416, is that able to be obtained by civilians?

From what I have read it clears up alot of the problems that happens with the M16 in general.

[Random_Looney]

No, but it's just a gas piston stuck in an AR-15. There are plenty of alternatives out there.

That design concept has been around since at least the 70's if not 60's.

It has pros and cons. HK just slathers on the marketing hype as though it's the holy grail of service rifles.

[Random_Looney]

Oh, and he was talking about the M249 SAW, not the M16. Different weapon or weapon system.

[AnalHerpes]

They renamed the civilian version the MR223 (or something like that). It costs something like $3000 and I believe HK changed the positions of the takedown pins so they only work with HK lowers. HK wasn't the first one to come out with a piston upper which doesn't seem that necessary unless you're running a suppressor/SBR/full auto or don't really enjoy cleaning your weapon.

HK are basically a bunch of tossers who wank off to their own name.

[Random_Looney]

which doesn't seem that necessary unless you're running a suppressor/SBR/full auto or don't really enjoy cleaning your weapon.

Even here it's debatable. I'd say suppressor plus one of the above might warrant it if it's proven unreliable (I've seen plenty of combinations of two of the above work fine), or you just hate cleaning your weapon.

[Reyin]

get to the range, choose a gun that fits you well, and get familiar with that sucker. I a talking every single malfunction it can possibly have, learn how to fix it and fast, learn how to shoot it instinctivly as well as deliberatly. You need to know everything you can about that firearm, even how it sounds when you go through various functions and stoppages, so you know what's wrong with it just by listening to it (think night time).

To somewhat add to what Meph said; If you have a range near you that rents out firearms, they can be a great way to familiarize yourself with multiple weapons assuming you don't have friends with large collections.

[b00m]

I have asked around, and 2 of my friends own ARs. And a a few others have several different handguns. And then almost all my friends have either shotguns or deer rifles.

When spring hits we are going to all start going to the range. And out where I live, Woodbury lets us shoot shotguns on our property as long as we inform the police of it and the neighbors agree ( Which they do). So we can trap shoot (for fun) and just target shoot in general.

Question for Random_Looney, is it true that if you load your own rounds, and then end up using them in self defense, that it will usually just get twisted into that you made that ammunition specially to kill someone. So you should only use Pre-made rounds from a reputable company?

I've heard different takes on that question, so I figured i'd ask again just to check.

Again thanks a bunch guys for your help, it is greatly appreciated!

-b00m

[Reyin]

I do a good bit of reloading and I've never heard anything to that extent. I suppose if you were dipping them in cyanide or something, you might catch some flack, but that's about it. To the best of my knowledge, the Geneva Convention doesn't exactly apply to home self defense which is why cartridges such as the popular hydra-shok and others have sprouted up.

I suppose it's possible given a particular judge, or a specific law somewhere that using reloaded cartridges might cause problems, but I can't say I've ever heard of an actual case in which someone was charged with a crime because of it.

[AnalHerpes]

It shouldn't make a difference what ammo you use but a super ignorant jury or a DA who wants to make an example out of you could prove bad if you wish to use reloads for protection. I forgot the guys name but a guy used a 10mm Auto to defend himself and the prosecutor made it appear that he intentionally used an excessively powered weapon to make sure he killed the guy. He got charged with manslaughter. Kind of ironic because I'm pretty sure if the guy used a SxS 12 gauge there would have been no issue.

A popular idea is to find out whatever your local PD uses and use that.

[Random_Looney]

Question for Random_Looney, is it true that if you load your own rounds, and then end up using them in self defense, that it will usually just get twisted into that you made that ammunition specially to kill someone. So you should only use Pre-made rounds from a reputable company?
-b00m

Lawyers will say/try anything, generally speaking. As long as you're using a hollowpoint like Speer Gold Dot bullets in the reload, where they are designed for self-defense and may even be what your PD uses, I don't think that argument would last more than a second. Tell them you reload with such ammunition to save money so that you can practice with said ammunition more often to account for POI shift, etc. since after all, you are responsible for every shot you fire.

[b00m]

k, thanks for clarification

[Random_Looney]

You're welcome, however I do warn you it's not like I've used that one in court or anything. I can't even give you an anecdote about it working, though I would imagine a halfway competent lawyer, maybe even a public def- uh, I'd imagine you could get away with it.:bluerazz:

[Optionryder420]

For those of you saying that there aren't much difference between manufacture, you are very wrong... has nobody seen the chart from RobS?

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/070810-ar-chart.jpg

There are many differences... now, just because colts and LMT's have the most features doesn't make them the best... it all depends on what you want the rifle for. A real SHTF type rifle would probably be a Colt or LMT, where as something you just plan on shooting you could go with a DPMS.

Also, you can do a lot of the staking yourself if you look up how to do it.

[blue_monday]

I'd recommend building an AR, but it's not the right time to. I ordered my kit from model 1 in late december and it wont show up till ~april. Brownells still hasn't shipped my lower either.

god damn obama:mad:

[The English Gentleman]

god damn obama:mad:

It is only going to get worse... ... ... ... ...

[b00m]

Thanks a bunch for the response guys. I really appreciate it, you have pointed me in the right direction with what I am looking to do for my career.

Thanks again!

- b00m

[blue_monday]

It is only going to get worse... ... ... ... ...

i plan on spending 100% of my tax return on guns because of this. in the summer i'll get a few more too.

[Vargus]

For those of you saying that there aren't much difference between manufacture, you are very wrong... has nobody seen the chart from RobS?

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/070810-ar-chart.jpg

There are many differences... now, just because colts and LMT's have the most features doesn't make them the best... it all depends on what you want the rifle for. A real SHTF type rifle would probably be a Colt or LMT, where as something you just plan on shooting you could go with a DPMS.

Also, you can do a lot of the staking yourself if you look up how to do it.

So if I get X's AR-15, I can get more bells and whistles than Y's? Normally, I buy bells and whistles separately because I know what I want.

[smitty]

Thanks a bunch for the response guys. I really appreciate it, you have pointed me in the right direction with what I am looking to do for my career.

Thanks again!

- b00m

you're a fucking loser dude.

[Random_Looney]

For those of you saying that there aren't much difference between manufacture, you are very wrong... has nobody seen the chart from RobS?

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/070810-ar-chart.jpg

There are many differences... now, just because colts and LMT's have the most features doesn't make them the best... it all depends on what you want the rifle for. A real SHTF type rifle would probably be a Colt or LMT, where as something you just plan on shooting you could go with a DPMS.

Also, you can do a lot of the staking yourself if you look up how to do it.

Those only list finishing procedures, and aren't always accurate.

Besides, with staking... honestly it doesn't matter how you do it if the key stays in place. Some are obviously bad, some are likely superior to the standard staking practice.

[Optionryder420]

So if I get X's AR-15, I can get more bells and whistles than Y's? Normally, I buy bells and whistles separately because I know what I want.

Except you're a dumbass and that's not at all what it says, these things are not bells and whistles. I'd consider bells and whistles as say a free float handguard, rail systems, optics, etc. These are all about build quality from the different major brands. Staking will keep everything tight and not allow things to loosen up and all the other options on there are about pressure testing and other quality control issues.

And random looney, RobS has produced a new chart, I don't remember if this is the old or new one. And you are right, it's not entirely accurate, many people have posted in many different places that their rifles did come with certain features that the chart states otherwise, but "the chart" is a very good place to look when you want to know what comes with what.

Not to mention I'd trust a Colt or LMT over any of the other rifles on there if it came down to life and death.

[Random_Looney]

[QUOTE=Optionryder420;164901
And random looney, RobS has produced a new chart, I don't remember if this is the old or new one. And you are right, it's not entirely accurate, many people have posted in many different places that their rifles did come with certain features that the chart states otherwise, but "the chart" is a very good place to look when you want to know what comes with what.
[/QUOTE]

Completely agreed. I like things like the F marked front sights, but parkerization under the front sight might not be as big of a deal.

[Vargus]

Except you're a dumbass and that's not at all what it says, these things are not bells and whistles. I'd consider bells and whistles as say a free float handguard, rail systems, optics, etc. These are all about build quality from the different major brands. Staking will keep everything tight and not allow things to loosen up and all the other options on there are about pressure testing and other quality control issues.

If you can't stake a gas key you probably don't need to lecture me about this sort of stuff. I bet you get a mechanic to change your oil too? :rolleyes:

[Oral B]

I personally perfer the Colts.

[Optionryder420]

If you can't stake a gas key you probably don't need to lecture me about this sort of stuff. I bet you get a mechanic to change your oil too? :rolleyes:

Once again you prove you have the reading comprehension of a 7 year old.

Refer to my first post, where I blatantly say you can stake everything yourself.

[Vargus]

Once again you prove you have the reading comprehension of a 7 year old.

Refer to my first post, where I blatantly say you can stake everything yourself.

So then why is that such a big deal if some are staked properly or not? Just sounds to me like a lot of BAAAAWWWWing because you got silver bells and dog whistles because you didn't specify gold bells and didgeridoos. :rolleyes:

[Optionryder420]

Damn dude, you really couldn't be more of an idiot.

I never stated it was a big deal, I clearly said that in my first post.

Only reason I posted it is because it is information that I'm assuming nobody here knew, it wasn't posted already so I felt I'd post it to help out this guy looking for an AR.

[incorporated]

So then why is that such a big deal if some are staked properly or not? Just sounds to me like a lot of BAAAAWWWWing because you got silver bells and dog whistles because you didn't specify gold bells and didgeridoos. :rolleyes:

You should have died with &T. :picard:

[Freelance Tax Collector]

Hmmm.... Speaking from experience, I'd reach for a Rock River before I'd go for a Colt.

[Optionryder420]

Try saying that on AR15.com, you will get flamed to hell.

Really, I like my Stag, but if I ever get to build a new AR I'm going with an LMT.

Not a fan of Colts, too expensive and I just don't care for all the fanboys.

[ilovechronic]

supposedly LMT manufactured my upper.

it was from www.m-aparts.com and they claim this: "LMT (Lewis Machine and Tool) also manufactures and assembles our Barreled Uppers, utilizing the same stringent guidelines to meet or exceed current Military Specifications. Our receivers are Hard Coat Black Anodized as per Mil-Spec."

It also says this in their faq "Everything is US manufactured that goes into your AR15 rifle. Our upper receivers are manufactured by Lewis Machine and Tool, and LMT cuts and chambers the uppers using Wilson or Mike Rock Premium Barrel Blanks, which they then headspace and test fire. We do have some Rock River Barreled Uppers as noted. [The few foreign parts that are shown on this website are so noted in the descriptions – they do not come in any rifle/carbine kit, period.]"

So supposedly my m-a kit gun is made by LMT can anyone confirm this?
It does not have a LMT roll mark like their complete rifles do. But it is a good upper anyway i have never had any issues with that rifle and I have put about 3000 rounds through it. I have cleaned it of course. If it is a LMt built gun that is really cool because it is like a discount lmt. What it sounds like is lmt assembles and test fires them but I am not sure.

[Optionryder420]

If it's just the upper, there's nothing very special about it... I'm pretty sure a blank upper is a blank upper... read the chart, only thing you could possibly have on there would be the M4 feedramps.

Not to mention, I'm pretty sure there's only 4 real manufacture of uppers and lowers. CMT, LMT, LAR, MMS and then a few other smaller companies make them, but those are the main 4. Everything on the list is a part of the quality and finish the company will do out the door... LMT probably manufactures your upper, but doesn't finish it.

[ilovechronic]

If it's just the upper, there's nothing very special about it... I'm pretty sure a blank upper is a blank upper... read the chart, only thing you could possibly have on there would be the M4 feedramps.

Not to mention, I'm pretty sure there's only 4 real manufacture of uppers and lowers. CMT, LMT, LAR, MMS and then a few other smaller companies make them, but those are the main 4. Everything on the list is a part of the quality and finish the company will do out the door... LMT probably manufactures your upper, but doesn't finish it.

it came withh m4 feed ramps. I dont know but it is a decent rifle. Works just as good as a friends factory bushmaster but I have probably put more rounds through mine.

They assemble a complete upper I think, from what it says they manufacture,assembe and testfire the upper. I didnt just mean the upper receiver.
Also the finish looks better on the kit upper than my DPMS lower.

[Vargus]

You should have died with &T. :picard:

Uhh huh. God forbid I insult you for not doing your homework before buying a gun. :rolleyes:

[Optionryder420]

it came withh m4 feed ramps. I dont know but it is a decent rifle. Works just as good as a friends factory bushmaster but I have probably put more rounds through mine.

They assemble a complete upper I think, from what it says they manufacture,assembe and testfire the upper. I didnt just mean the upper receiver.
Also the finish looks better on the kit upper than my DPMS lower.

If you want a good guess, just see if things are staked or not.

[AnalHerpes]

Actually, I don't think Bushmaster started properly staking their carrier keys up until a few years ago.