Russian super car to become a dream ride?

[blankooie]

Originally Posted by 944

One word.....traction. With that much torque, you just wouldn't have enough.....Ever!

With each wheel being controlled by an individual motor, I think they could develop some pretty damn good traction control.

[ratfrink]

Holy unsprung mass, batman!

Lots of far future concepts seem to have electric motors in the wheels. Saves space etc. Even some of my own designs have it. Maybe electric motors will become really small and light by then.

[Kwinnie Bogan]

I don't think unsprung mass is really the biggest issue for electric cars because they work so differently. That and the engines probably surely don't weight that much. It's going to be very interesting seeing electric cars progress, as practically all cars ever have been designed around the ICE.

[ratfrink]

The in car entertainment?



Did you see that some tuning company (or maybe it was Tesla themselves) have made a kit for the Tesla Roadster that makes realistic ICE sounds?

[Kwinnie Bogan]

If that's the one that has a range of different exhaust sounds and came out a while ago, then I actually went to buy it for shits & giggles but stopped when I saw the price tag. I was much more satisfied with buying a public address system with 30+ built in sounds for $80 odd. I've still yet to live the boyhood dream of fitting me some airhorns that play 'La Cucharacha' to a car.

[ratfrink]

We used to sell them at work, one of the mechanics fitted some to his ancient Cherokee (which also had red mud flaps, split exhaust with 'performance' backboxes, little bleeper to tell you when he had left his lights on, remote locking and startup, chrome wiper arms, and every colour of Magic Tree... I think he bought every crappy accessory we sold)

[Kwinnie Bogan]

You used to sell air horns that played 'La Cucharacha' at Halfords?

[ratfrink]

No, at Motosave aka Motoslave, the place I worked after Hellfrauds. It was a bit like Halfords but smaller and I was a salesman, a bike salesman, an administrator, a mechanic AND a bike mechanic. I did all these jobs because I was the only person who knew both how to turn a spanner AND fill out a form.

Also Halfords don't have mechanics any more.

[Guywhorocksyou]

double the hp and then maybe it would be in the same class as the corvette, but until then its just a good looking slow sports car

[ratfrink]

You think that's good looking?


Wait...


You think the Corvette is a sports car?

[Kwinnie Bogan]

Good point. Corvettes are supercars. Bargain bin models for th most part, but then there's the big fish like the almighty ZR1.

[ratfrink]

You'd think I'd have worked out how to get around the '3char' rule by now.

[Kwinnie Bogan]

[Kwinnie Bogan]

Right click on the emoticon, copy the url listed under properties, and then whack it in image tags. Alternatively you can include 'hidden' links in your post by wrapping the emoticon's command (such as '(:' reversed) in url= tags.

[ratfrink]

[Vargus]

Originally Posted by blankooie

With each wheel being controlled by an individual motor, I think they could develop some pretty damn good traction control.

Control theory. If I bothered to actually go to those classes I could write out the equation to control the wheel. Such a problem is actually extremely rudimentary and could have been solved 250 years ago.

The real oddball when you look at independent electric motors is taking into account wheel slip across a turn. Although this can easily be taken care of as well. Even simple mods to GM's electric power steering column could provide the necessary information to the motor controller.

It's just that most people don't think of this problem as opposed to the reall obvious ones like traction.

[Guywhorocksyou]

Originally Posted by frinkmakesyouthink

You think that's good looking?


Wait...


You think the Corvette is a sports car?

How did I just imply the Corvette is a sports car? I said double the Russian cars hp and it'll be in the same class as the corvette. And the Russian car does look good, in a import kind of way.

I'd take a ZR1 over it anyday though, but then of course I'd take a M3,M5,M6, audi tt, audi r8 over the zr1. I've grown up around european cars, and will continue to.

[Kwinnie Bogan]

So you'll take a Trabant over a Cadillac, because the Trabant is a 'euro' (co-oincidentally about how much it's worth)?

[ratfrink]

^ I was just teasing the guy anyway. I've grown up around European cars too, ya know.

I think the Vette is a proper sports car. The latest few generations are, at least, maybe not so much the old ones. But at least even the old ones have character.

You'd take an Audi R8 over a ZR1 though? Boy you must be one soulless motherfucker.

PS Kwincent, in my current situation (i.e. student) I'd probably take a Trabant over a Cadillac too. I've been in eastern Europe for a month and they're absolutely adored over there, which has kinda rubbed off on me a bit.

Have you seen 'Everything Is Illuminated'? Since I watched that film I've wanted a Trabi.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=um2p4...eature=related
Probably a bad example as that scene doesn't actually contain a Trabant.

Reminds me a lot of a meal I was served in a 'hotel' in the middle of nowhere, near Zakopane in the south of Poland. Between four of us we got a massive plate of boiled eggs and a jar of pickled gherkins. That was a few years ago, I think now I need at least some creature comforts (such as running water on every floor and bed linen that doesn't have a hammer and sickle on it)

[Township Rebellion]

K, I'm kinda drunk and feeling quite opinionated right now. Scratch that, the alcohol I've had has already worn off; so, just opinionated. If I didn't know any better, I'd say I was being trolled. Whelp; prepare yourselves for a rant..

Originally Posted by KwinnieBogan

So you'll take a Trabant over a Cadillac, because the Trabant is a 'euro' (co-oincidentally about how much it's worth)?

....

you been drinkin or what? Wait, of course you have.

What does a Trabant have to do with anything? You seem to think exclusively preferring european cars is a bad thing... it isn't. I'll use myself as an example: I highly doubt I'll ever buy an American car. Imports only. So, German, Japanese, British, Italian, French.. there's a fuckton of nice cars that have come from and will continue to come from those places. Of course there's a few shitboxes, but the ratio of good to bad is fairly balanced. So, do you think I'm missing out? Because of my biases, I'm going to avoid pretty much all American cars. Maybe something made during the 60's or earlier, if I feel like something different and I have the time, money yadda yadda. The classics are pretty cool, and I like older american trucks as well. Anything with three on the tree, manuals with column shifters rule..

So, really I'm not missing out on anything. In reality, the big three haven't built anything worth driving in decades, just a very small, select few high-end cars that I don't really care for or about anyway.. because a whole bunch of companies from everywhere else are putting out machines that make the yank tanks look like shit.

You guys are bally-hooing the ZR1 a little too much. While it's commendable that GM have gone and actually built a world class performance car, what they've done is make it totally single-minded. The truth is any company can build a high-end sports car that can lap the 'ring in under 8 minutes. But to do so means compromising other important factors, such as day-to-day usability, build quality, safety, ride and overall comfort, visual and tactile appeal inside and out, and with these cars, a bit of engineering panache: do you guys really think the ZR1 possesses any or all of these qualities? At least, to the same level as for an example.. the Audi R8?

No. Absolutely not. The R8 is three billion times nicer than the Vette. To compare the two is like comparing a porn star that has gone through several cosmetic surgical procedures with the girl next door who was simply born a 10 out of 10. Sure, the porn star has bigger tits, but that doesn't mean she's hotter. That doesn't mean she's smarter, or more loving, or... faithful. At all.

"Soulless". What a total load of shit. I don't think you understand the emotion an R8 creates. Just because it isn't a roaring monster all the time doesn't mean it's "soulless". The ZR1... well, it looks and sounds like it creates fear. What the R8 creates, however, is joy, pure, unmolested joy in every sense of the word. Joy without fear. It is fast. It can be an almighty weapon, ready to do battle at the drop of a hat. But the R8 was designed as a supercar meant for the real world, not just a track monster. It settles down and will happily waft you across town in supreme style and comfort. Even the fuel mileage isn't as completely atrocious as you'd expect. And, it does all these things perfectly. Nevermind soul, I think you'd have to be stupid to want any Corvette over an R8!

Look, I'm not in any way trying to shit all over the vette for what it isn't, or even for what it is. I'm not trying to convince anyone to not like it; with cars like these, it's pretty much entirely down to subjectivity. I am, however, shitting all over those of you who don't really understand what a truly "nice" car is. Don't think this is specifically me getting all huffy about guys not liking Audis, either; if the R8 really was a boring dullard then I wouldn't be touting it. You don't hear me singing the praises of the TT* all day, now do you? No. I couldn't care less if you don't like Audis, but to not recognize the R8 as the masterpiece it is, well, that's your loss.

*In other news, apparently that luscious TT-RS with the turbo 5-pot that I was drooling over a few months ago... it handles like a bag of assholes. That is to say, no involvement whatsoever. There's only one thing to do: get one, tear out the engine, install it into an Ur! Problem solved.

[ratfrink]

Audi R8 is boring as hell. Fuel economy, 'waft you home', safety - I don't care about any of that shit! Day-to-day driveability is irrelevant because it's not a day-to-day car! I want my sports car to be noisy, uncomfortable and use loads of fuel. If your ideal sports car is 'unmolested' then why do you like the R8? It certainly has more than enough concessions to comfort and practicality?

All I want from a sports car is A)Lots of noise B)Lots of speed and C)Insane looks.

The Vette is noisier than the R8. It's also faster (in a straight line at least, possibly round the track too and almost definitely a damn sight more fun). The Corvette actually looks like a sports car too. The front end of the R8 could quite easily be confused with the front end of any other Audi. The rear end is just a blob. It looks like it was designed by the same people who designed the iPod, which is fine for a cool sophisticated gadget, but not for a sports car.

Even if the R8 satisfied my three requirements for a sports car (which aside from looks, it does), why on earth would I want anything else? Comfort, drivability, visibility, build quality, safety, reliability, fuel economy, traction control blah blah blah. I want that in my daily car. If I have it in my special car, then there's nothing special about it, I might as well drive the R8 every day. It's like having a really nice single malt and then taking the hangover away. You NEED the uncomfortable seats, you NEED to be deaf when you get out of the car and you NEED to be very slightly scared of it, otherwise it's not special. The R8 is like driving a sports car in a computer game - it has no drawbacks - and the Vette is like driving a sports car in real life, and a fucking good one at that.

You can't argue with me! I'm a car designer








(in training).

[ComradeAsh]

I wouldn't mind an R8.

My car today was nice enough to catapult me into a wall because one of the brakes locked up or something...I really don't know what happened, one second going down an onramp, up at about 60, see traffic up ahead, dab brakes and suddenly I'm facing the wrong bloody way.

But it would be nicer to have it back than the bloody yarris I borrowed.

[ratfrink]

^ Shit! Are you and the car alright?

[ComradeAsh]

Originally Posted by frinkmakesyouthink

^ Shit! Are you and the car alright?

I'm fine.

Everyone thinks I'm insane because my two primary complaints were:

Goddamnit, this is going to cost money to fix
Aww fuck! I'm going to be late for my coffee date.

Car is uglied, but as far as I can tell no mechanical damage - broken headlight, fucked bumper, slight knock to the bonnet and left quarter panel damage.

What I'm really concerned about though, is what the hell actually happened and if its going to happen again.

[ratfrink]

Maybe you hit a patch of oil. I don't know. Presumably it was your rears that locked up?

A few years ago my stepdad moved my car while I was away and left the handbrake on for nearly two months - I realised this as I was going down the motorway at 85 - I cruised into the slow lane and realised that I had no brakes - fuggen handbrake was jammed on causing it to overheat catastrophically (so hot I couldn't touch the wheel) and the brake fluid to boil. One of the many breakdowns in my MG...

[Township Rebellion]

Originally Posted by ComradeAsh

I wouldn't mind an R8.

My car today was nice enough to catapult me into a wall because one of the brakes locked up or something...I really don't know what happened, one second going down an onramp, up at about 60, see traffic up ahead, dab brakes and suddenly I'm facing the wrong bloody way.

But it would be nicer to have it back than the bloody yarris I borrowed.

Sorry to hear that, man.

Originally Posted by frinkmakesyouthink

You can't argue with me! I'm a car designer (in training).

I can argue with you all I like, sounds like there's a few lessons on car design you've yet to learn.

Audi R8 is boring as hell. Fuel economy, 'waft you home', safety - I don't care about any of that shit! Day-to-day driveability is irrelevant because it's not a day-to-day car! I want my sports car to be noisy, uncomfortable and use loads of fuel. If your ideal sports car is 'unmolested' then why do you like the R8? It certainly has more than enough concessions to comfort and practicality?

I've already addressed most of this in my last post. However, I can still find some things to pick over here:

You'll notice when I was discussing the R8, I was talking about the emotion it creates in the driver. 'Unmolested' refers to the feeling of joy without any mixture of fear of a lack of ultimate control or anger over a lack of overall quality. That said, the R8 still is pure and 'unmolested' because it's still a full-on drivers car, like the corvette, however it was designed and built in such a way that removes all of the drawbacks you get from less refined machines.

All I want from a sports car is A)Lots of noise B)Lots of speed and C)Insane looks.

That's cool. Sounds like the ZR1 is perfect for you: a single-minded car for a single-minded driver

The Vette is noisier than the R8. It's also faster (in a straight line at least, possibly round the track too and almost definitely a damn sight more fun). The Corvette actually looks like a sports car too. The front end of the R8 could quite easily be confused with the front end of any other Audi. The rear end is just a blob. It looks like it was designed by the same people who designed the iPod, which is fine for a cool sophisticated gadget, but not for a sports car.

You sound like you've never actually stood in front of an R8 and stared at it from every angle. Of course, this all goes back to the theory of taste; there's no real changing your mind if you really think it's ugly. Performance, on the other hand, can be argued: there's no denying the Corvette is much more powerful and, over a greater distance, ultimately faster in a straight line. A recent comparison in an issue of EVO magazine shows the Audi (5.2 FSI) is quicker off the line and posts barely faster quarter-mile times, though the ZR1 continues to accelerate at a much higher rate thanks to its higher power.

I'm not so sure it would be that much faster around a track, though. Depends on the track. They both have excellent balance, the vette having the engine crammed way back and down behind the front wheels, the Audi simply being mid-engined. But the R8 would probably be able to haul out of corners alot faster due to its superior grip, the evidence for that can be found in its acceleration times: the Vette channels all its power through the rear wheels, which equals a bunch of wasteful wheelspin. The Audi will also oversteer, however I think you'll find it'll be the much faster 4-wheel drift kind rather than just hanging the tail out.

As for "fun", I dunno.. I think you'll find the R8 is just as much fun if not more so than the vette because of its superior grip. The Audi:

[youtube]BA89eSeIl0Y[/youtube]

The ZR1:

[youtube]7mEz2kJPbec[/youtube]

That Vette video suffers from the usual american syndrome of clinical "perfect condition" tests without any actual in-car footage, so it's difficult to compare the driving experiences. What can be made out is that the Audi is hardly a snore, now is it?

Even if the R8 satisfied my three requirements for a sports car (which aside from looks, it does), why on earth would I want anything else? Comfort, drivability, visibility, build quality, safety, reliability, fuel economy, traction control blah blah blah. I want that in my daily car. If I have it in my special car, then there's nothing special about it, I might as well drive the R8 every day. It's like having a really nice single malt and then taking the hangover away. You NEED the uncomfortable seats, you NEED to be deaf when you get out of the car and you NEED to be very slightly scared of it, otherwise it's not special. The R8 is like driving a sports car in a computer game - it has no drawbacks - and the Vette is like driving a sports car in real life, and a fucking good one at that.

I can understand your logic of driving a special car regularly, and maybe getting sick of it. But, I don't think you quite understand the situation: the R8 is a car that never gets old. If anything, it's more special that it's that good to drive both normally and with your ass on fire, and it can do this all day every day. Again it's hard to argue taste but I think you or anyone with your opinion is crazy for not seeing the beauty in this car.

[ratfrink]

I do see some beauty of form in the car, and especially in the engineering that has gone into it. And I appreciate the quality of the design and the idea of creating an exceptionally high quality sports car that you can enjoy every day. They have an R8 parked up inside Stansted Airport and (you can ask my bored girlfriend this) I did spend literally an hour looking over it and talking about it to the Audi rep. The quality and engineering, however, is absolutely outstanding and it does feel like you are almost in the presence of something mystical. BUT I'm still not sold on the looks. I don't think it's ugly at all, more just slightly unexciting. It's like they've tried to make it understated and subtle, but just ended up with something uninspiring and anomalous. It had as much presence as the Ferrari to the left and the Aston to the right, but it wasn't a presence of passion or of power or of class like the other cars.

And still think, though, that if a sports car is easy enough to drive that it could be used every day, then it can't be appreciated as a sports car. Think of it like this - an Audi RS6 compared to say, a little Caterham. The Audi is just as fast in a straight line and round a track. But it's also a four-door saloon with air conditioning and it's comfortable and it's reliable. The fact that the Caterham is incredibly uncomfortable and noisy makes it a proper sports car, because the driving experience is completely uncompromised - the car is built purely for speed and nothing else, and it's going as fast as it possibly can.

The RS6 is slowed down and compromised by the practicality that has been designed into it. The RS6 may well be faster in a straight line (depending on what engine in the Caterham) but I'd be willing to bet that the Caterham is a lot more exciting. If you got the TGV from Paris to Lyon you'd be going much faster than either the RS6 or the Caterham, or any car for that matter, but you'd also be sitting at a table in near silence, which kinda takes away from the experience. The train could go faster if you stripped it out and made it into a proper uncompromised 'sports train' and would be much more fun to ride. Sort of like a roller coaster I suppose.

The Z06 is undoubtedly faster on the track by the way. It ran 7:49 at the Ring, while the R8 did 8:04, same driver.

Maybe I'm missing the point, and there are actually a lot of people who want a fast yet comfortable car. I don't think they want a sports car though, they probably want a GT car which will 'waft you home' when you want it to, but still give you brown trouser time if you push it. However, I don't like to think of a proper sports car as being 'single minded' as that's quite a negative term. I'd say that a proper sports car is 'uncompromised'. You can't argue that the R8 isn't compromised as a sports car. If it was built as a pure sports car, it would have beaten the Z06 round the Ring (an SL version of the R8 would be lighter than the Z06 and has a mid engine and 4wd too). If someone really cared about the ultimate sports car experience, like I do, they wouldn't buy an R8 because it's too soft.

If I had to sum up the R8, I'd say it's a masterpiece of engineering and probably one of the best mergings of performance and practicality in a prestige car (bar 911) ever made. I'd say that the whole car was designed around a Futurist ideal of the 'perfect' sports car, which I think is a very dangerous thing to aim for, as you may well end up with something as bland as a very fast comfortable train. I think the Z06, the Caterham or even my little old MG Midget is a more successful sports car, simply because the designers recognized that sports cars have to have flaws otherwise the sports car ideal has been compromised. The R8 is undoubtedly a spectacular car in terms of design an engineering, but it fails (in my mind at least) as a sports car. An admirable effort but not something I would be interested in myself.

I said I wasn't going to talk about passion and how a car makes you feel and stuff like that, but I think I'll have to - the R8 is like a photograph of something compared to the painting, or the whiskey without the hangover. These things much be technically better and easier to live with sometimes, but you end up with something soulless. This car is what the officials in Huxley's 'Brave New World' would drive.

I have actually come to like the R8 a lot more since I've written this.

[ComradeAsh]

Beats a fucking Yaris.

Which I suppose, beats the fucking train.

[ratfrink]

I dunno, I once hired a Yaris when I didn't have a car, and I wish I'd taken the train. The train probably gives more feedback despite lacking a steering wheel.

Hiring a Yaris and paying for petrol was actually cheaper though. That's how expensive the trains are in the UK if you don't book them two years in advance.

[ComradeAsh]

Originally Posted by frinkmakesyouthink

I dunno, I once hired a Yaris when I didn't have a car, and I wish I'd taken the train. The train probably gives more feedback despite lacking a steering wheel.

Hiring a Yaris and paying for petrol was actually cheaper though. That's how expensive the trains are in the UK if you don't book them two years in advance.

Hopefully my cressida won't be too much to repair.

Fucking irritating.

[ChinaCat]

Originally Posted by Vargus

Russia isn't exactly known for it's powerful engines, you know.





You were saying?



Or were you saying? (Protip: it doesn't come even close to 260 hp)

Those arent supercars.

I dont know about the honda, but the lotus sure as fuck doesnt need more than 260 horses....and im pretty sure the exige version does have about that.

[Aphid]

Originally Posted by talonner

http://russiatoday.com/Art_and_Fun/2...ar-become.html

You forgot to mention it does over 6km on a single tank of kerosene.

Dumbass .

[Township Rebellion]

Originally Posted by Aphid

You forgot to mention it does over 6km on a single tank of kerosene.

Dumbass .

lolwut?

[Guywhorocksyou]

Originally Posted by frinkmakesyouthink

^ I was just teasing the guy anyway. I've grown up around European cars too, ya know.

I think the Vette is a proper sports car. The latest few generations are, at least, maybe not so much the old ones. But at least even the old ones have character.

You'd take an Audi R8 over a ZR1 though? Boy you must be one soulless motherfucker.

PS Kwincent, in my current situation (i.e. student) I'd probably take a Trabant over a Cadillac too. I've been in eastern Europe for a month and they're absolutely adored over there, which has kinda rubbed off on me a bit.

Have you seen 'Everything Is Illuminated'? Since I watched that film I've wanted a Trabi.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=um2p4...eature=related
Probably a bad example as that scene doesn't actually contain a Trabant.

Reminds me a lot of a meal I was served in a 'hotel' in the middle of nowhere, near Zakopane in the south of Poland. Between four of us we got a massive plate of boiled eggs and a jar of pickled gherkins. That was a few years ago, I think now I need at least some creature comforts (such as running water on every floor and bed linen that doesn't have a hammer and sickle on it)

Can always sell it and buy a ZR1 and insurance for a few years