A discussion on the true implications of steroid use

[Daran]

I find steroid use to be multi-faceted. There are many different reasons one might decide to use them. Normally, when one decides to take the steroid plunge, there is much preparation that goes into it. World class bodybuilders have their diets down to a science, and prepare rigorous workout regimes in order to get the most out of their anabolic enhancement. For the common layman, acquiring steroids can be daunting. The pathways for even getting the anabolics are closely guarded by the online bodybuilding community. In order to even get to the point where you're able to find a source to buy them from, you'll have to be deeply ingrained in their culture. At this stage, one would likely know a thing or two about correct steroid use.

In recent years, new ways to acquire steroids online have permeated the mainstream. Kids are now able to buy steroid derivatives online. These steroid derivatives are closely related deviations of known steroid compounds like Masteron, Testosterone and Turinabol. The difference between them and the traditional illegal anabolic compounds is that one is illegal (traditional) and one is not (derivatives). It's quite commonplace now that one can browse on a message board to read the sob story of a teenager who took steroids for too long and can't get an erection.

Herein lies the main point of this thread. Steroid use by itself has traditionally been a calculated endeavor. Those who were able to even acquire them were very well versed in their usage and how to avoid endocrine issues. Recently, more and more kids are using them as an easy means to gain muscle. Short term, it will certainly work. Long term though, there will be many consequences. Let's talk about the consequences of steroid use.

Consequences vary from person to person and by anabolic steroid cycle length. Someone younger (<30 yrs. old) taking their first cycle of anabolic steroids for a reasonable length of time will experience minimal symptoms after cessation. Generally, anabolic steroid use is safe if used for a minimal length of time and if spaced apart long enough. There is, however, cause for concern for those who cycle more frequently. Users who cycle several times per year will inevitably experience hypogonadism in their later years.

Hypogonadism is, as the name implys, a deficiency in gonadal output. Generally, when one goes on a steroid cycle and returns to homeostasis, testosterone levels will be lower than they were before. The effects will not immediately be apparent, but eventually they will surface if one cycles too many times. But there are always caveats, and the compound used will affect the rate at which one degrades their receptors/testosterone producing capabilities.

On the morality standpoint, I see no reason why steroid users should be singled out just for trying to improve themselves. I personally think that steroids are the only illicit compounds that have more positives than negatives. For those who haven't touched the needle, it is impossible to understand. The feeling that one gets from steroid use comes not from the compound itself, although it does certainly have an effect on disposition, but from the sense of self accomplishment. When I used to cycle, I would look in the mirror and pour over myself for 10, 20, even 30 minutes at a time. I was amazed at the progress I was making and was genuinely enthusiastic for what the future weeks held, I felt as if I were truly improving myself.

However, before this gets any longer than it already is, I'll sum up my thoughts on the implications of steroid use. There are many negatives to using steroids, and many positives. Abuse of this class of compounds yields pretty bad consequences in the long term, so judicious use of them is mandatory. I see steroids as a tool for genuinely improving oneself, not as a way to cheat the whole process. I think it is better for one to not touch them at all if inclinations for use aren't apparent. If one is dead set on using them, proper research is required.

Healthy discussion is encouraged and I will answer any questions that are posed. To all who will spam this thread with "steroids r 4 fags", well, fuck all you niggers.

[pimpstrocity]

I wouldn't waste my money on that junk... but then again I have balls and a work ethic so I dont need that shit to get bigger and stronger. Sucks for all you that lack the testicular fortitude to do shit right.

[Daran]

Originally Posted by pimpstrocity

I wouldn't waste my money on that junk... but then again I have balls and a work ethic so I dont need that shit to get bigger and stronger. Sucks for all you that lack the testicular fortitude to do shit right.

God damn, you are fucking retarded. Nobody "needs" the steroids to get stronger, it's a personal decision influenced by a wide variety of reasons. It may not have occurred to you, but you can have a solid work ethic and still use them. As a matter of fact, the guys I know who do use probably have 10x the work ethic you do.

[master killer]

I'm planning to do my first cycle later on (I'm still researching it deeply), and I have a few questions:

What is the most effective anabolic, cost/benefit wise?

What was your PCT?

How the hell you determine the best diet/workout regime for you during a cycle? I daresay what works for you off the juice might not work as well on it?

I've also read you should take test with every cycle, what is your personal experience?

Have you ever noticed any side effects, like gyno? Did you take Nolvadex along with the roids?

What kind of gains you had during your first cycle?


Sorry for all those questions, but you said you would answer everything you were asked.

[Daran]

Originally Posted by master killer

I'm planning to do my first cycle later on (I'm still researching it deeply), and I have a few questions:

What is the most effective anabolic, cost/benefit wise?

I'd say cost/benefit wise, the most effective anabolic is the enanthate ester of testosterone. However, for a first time user, you may want to go with testosterone propionate. Prop clears much quicker than enanthate and that will help you recover faster, which is good for a fresh HPTA.

What was your PCT?

I've done many cycles, and the most effective PCT regiment I've encountered thus far is nolvadex and clomid together. That shit will work miracles. I did an 8 month cycle (well, more like HRT) and it brought my HPTA back from the brink.

20mg of nolvadex per day and 20mg of clomiphene per day. The clomid can be taken every other day if side effects are bothersome.

How the hell you determine the best diet/workout regime for you during a cycle? I daresay what works for you off the juice might not work as well on it?

I used to just play it by ear. You'll notice that you have MUCH more energy and stamina in the gym, so you'll probably be able to hit every single muscle group and not over train.

I've also read you should take test with every cycle, what is your personal experience?

Test is something you're going to want when you start getting into oral steroids/progesterone agonist steroids. However, you don't need it for everything. Testosterone by itself is moderately suppressive, so adding it to every cycle isn't always necessary. I once did a short cycle of anavar (6 weeks) only, and had little to no shutdown.

Have you ever noticed any side effects, like gyno? Did you take Nolvadex along with the roids?


Gyno is something you're going to have to anticipate if you take steroids. Luckily, I didn't catch it too bad. I have no lumps because I was judicious in my use of letrozole, but I would be lying to you if I didnt say I have puffy nips. I took nolvadex after my cycles and it didn't do a thing for my gyno. The only class of estrogen inhibiting drugs that have ever worked for my gyno are the aromatase inhibitors.

What kind of gains you had during your first cycle?

Splendid gains, absolutely splendid. I added almost 100 lbs. on my deadlifts, 50 lbs. on squats, and 50 lbs. to my max bench. My total weight gain was something like 20 lbs., and I lost some bodyfat to boot.

Sorry for all those questions, but you said you would answer everything you were asked.
Glad to help.

Questions are answered above in blue.

I hope I doesn't seem like I glorified steroid use. Although they are incredible drugs, I would advise staying away from them if you're under 21. Really, your never quite the same when you're off them. I think that they may have caused me some degree of adrenal fatigue, because I have way less energy and stamina in the gym than I used to, even before the juice.

The way I see it, it's short term vs. long term. In the near future, you will gain a good amount of strength and hopefully not suffer any long lasting side effects. However, like I alluded to in my original post and just above, you're never quite the same. Take it from someone who knows.

[master killer]

Originally Posted by Daran

Questions are answered above in blue.

I hope I doesn't seem like I glorified steroid use. Although they are incredible drugs, I would advise staying away from them if you're under 21. Really, your never quite the same when you're off them. I think that they may have caused me some degree of adrenal fatigue, because I have way less energy and stamina in the gym than I used to, even before the juice.

The way I see it, it's short term vs. long term. In the near future, you will gain a good amount of strength and hopefully not suffer any long lasting side effects. However, like I alluded to in my original post and just above, you're never quite the same. Take it from someone who knows.

Thanks a lot for your answers.

Well, I've been thinking about steroids for a while now. I've had splendid gains on a "natural" regime, focused more towards strength than size. (still, I gain weight easily, don't know why)
My lifts are pretty decent, but now I wanted to get a lot more muscle which will in turn increase my lifts even more.
And a while ago my progress started to get slower, and I'm feeling like I may stall soon, so I'm planning ahead before it happens.

I know steroids ARE dangerous, but so is electricity, it's a matter of being careful and plan ahead.

Thanks for your answers, you seem to know what you're talking about, so I'll push the bar a little and ask another question:

Have you ever taken Somatotropin along with the steroids?
Do you feel cycling was worth it? If you could go back, would you still do it?

I didn't know roids "changed" you after you stopped taking them. Of course you'll lose some strength and size, but the fact that you feel different is sort of..scary, if anything.

[Daran]

Originally Posted by master killer

Thanks a lot for your answers.

Well, I've been thinking about steroids for a while now. I've had splendid gains on a "natural" regime, focused more towards strength than size. (still, I gain weight easily, don't know why)
My lifts are pretty decent, but now I wanted to get a lot more muscle which will in turn increase my lifts even more.
And a while ago my progress started to get slower, and I'm feeling like I may stall soon, so I'm planning ahead before it happens.

I know steroids ARE dangerous, but so is electricity, it's a matter of being careful and plan ahead.

Thanks for your answers, you seem to know what you're talking about, so I'll push the bar a little and ask another question:

Have you ever taken Somatotropin along with the steroids?
Do you feel cycling was worth it? If you could go back, would you still do it?

I didn't know roids "changed" you after you stopped taking them. Of course you'll lose some strength and size, but the fact that you feel different is sort of..scary, if anything.

I feel that it has truly changed me, in some ways positive and some ways negative. Negatively, my balls are like half the size they used to be, although that is really just aesthetic. Also, my libido is terrible, much worse than it should be for someone my age. Positively, it seems like my thought process is now much more fluid. I never really engaged in many intellectual pursuits until taking the testosterone, although this could possibly be attributed to my lack of interest in sex.

As for GH, never taken it myself. In my opinion, and as studies have shown, the claims are somewhat dubious. It's just not necessary for anybody younger than andro/menopause. If you were to get bloodwork done, you'll see that your IGF-1 levels are still plenty high and that there is no reason for using it. Plus, it is way too damn expensive. I had the chance many times to use it because my brother was prescribed, but I passed.

Like I said, I'm mixed on whether it was a good decision for me or not to even try the juice. It was a fantastic run while I was on it, but I wish I would have held off a bit longer. I started when I was 17, so I wasn't even finished growing yet. Oftentimes, I find myself at the gym yearning to stick the needle in again. The satisfaction of being strong as hell never gets old. Although, I know that if I touch the juice again, I will likely need it for life.

[Daran]

master killer,

There are many ways yet for you to exploit muscle growth naturally. I think the biggest factor is just how much calories you consume. I grow like a weed if I stick to my 4000-5000 calorie per day regiment.

Just curious, how old are you?

[master killer]

I'm 19.


You started cycling at 17? Did you know what you were doing?
Wow, that took some balls.

[Daran]

Originally Posted by master killer

I'm 19.


You started cycling at 17? Did you know what you were doing?
Wow, that took some balls.

Yeah, it did take some balls.

But seriously, 19 years old? You're in your prime man, there's no need for you to touch anything hormonal. However, knowing that these warnings oft go ignored, I'll tell you what you should do. Anavar, 6 weeks, 60mg/day. Buy enough nolvadex for one month and dose it at 20mg/day for PCT. Do not touch anything else until you're older. You will wreak some serious havoc on your HPTA and ruin the prime years of your sex life.

Edit: I've been on the internet reading bodybuilding/steroid websites since I was 15, so I thought I had it all locked down. Just know, there is a reason for waiting until you're older.

[SteamPunk]

I have a friend who had to take medical steroids. He's really short and hairy.

Steroids are fucking stupid.

[master killer]

Originally Posted by Daran

Yeah, it did take some balls.

But seriously, 19 years old? You're in your prime man, there's no need for you to touch anything hormonal. However, knowing that these warnings oft go ignored, I'll tell you what you should do. Anavar, 6 weeks, 60mg/day. Buy enough nolvadex for one month and dose it at 20mg/day for PCT. Do not touch anything else until you're older. You will wreak some serious havoc on your HPTA and ruin the prime years of your sex life.

Edit: I've been on the internet reading bodybuilding/steroid websites since I was 15, so I thought I had it all locked down. Just know, there is a reason for waiting until you're older.

I intend on waiting a bit longer, but I'll probably end up cycling way before what is recommended. Thanks for your advice, though, I really appreciate it.

How old are you now, by the way?

[Daran]

Originally Posted by master killer

I intend on waiting a bit longer, but I'll probably end up cycling way before what is recommended. Thanks for your advice, though, I really appreciate it.

How old are you now, by the way?

For the sake of anonymity, in my early 20s.

I'm glad that you're not rushing into this, but I was just like you back in the day. I researched tirelessly and then just decided to let my temptations get the best of me. 60mg of anavar for 6 weeks will make a huge difference in your lifts. Anavar was actually my second cycle, and although it did a number on my lipid panel, my strength went through the roof and I gained about 10 lbs. If you want a good source for it, PM me. I'd rather you get the cycling out of the way and use good shit rather than underground crap with rat poison.

Edit: By temptations, I mean a 500mg/wk testosterone cycle stacked with various orals including anavar and methyl-masteron. That cycle lasted 16 weeks.

[Machine Messiah]

Steroids should be mandatory for all black children in so that football and basketball can be more interesting sports.

[Daran]

Originally Posted by Honeybbq

Steroids should be mandatory for all black children in so that football and basketball can be more interesting sports.

They kinda already are mandatory. I can say with confidence that 99% of the NFL players juice and many basketball players use some weaker orals and injectables.

[master killer]

Originally Posted by Daran

They kinda already are mandatory. I can say with confidence that 99% of the NFL players juice and many basketball players use some weaker orals and injectables.

Juice in pro sports is almost mandatory.
If you ain't on the juice, you lose.


People complain about steroid use in sports, but they still want a good show.
They should just shut the fuck up and realize that.

[Machine Messiah]

^^^ Fair point (daran and master killer). All of the football players from my old high school who are currently playing D1 were on steroids. But to be fair, these were all white rich kid athletes and I have no idea whether or not urban blacks are using steroids to the same extent. I get the strange sense that blacks are more "straightedge" when it comes to using drugs and performance enhancers and such.

[Daran]

Originally Posted by Honeybbq

^^^ Fair point (daran and master killer). All of the football players from my old high school who are currently playing D1 were on steroids. But to be fair, these were all white rich kid athletes and I have no idea whether or not urban blacks are using steroids to the same extent. I get the strange sense that blacks are more "straightedge" when it comes to using drugs and performance enhancers and such.

They use that ghetto juice, test and deca all day. I guess blacks just have better genetics when it comes to strength sports, Jimmy the Greek taught us exactly why that is. But yeah, I go to the same gym that a certain African American Mr. Olympia contestant frequents and his whole entourage is juiced to the gills.

[master killer]

Originally Posted by Daran

They use that ghetto juice, test and deca all day. I guess blacks just have better genetics when it comes to strength sports, Jimmy the Greek taught us exactly why that is. But yeah, I go to the same gym that a certain African American Mr. Olympia contestant frequents and his whole entourage is juiced to the gills.

I love how Ronnie Coleman, Jay cutler and company deny the obvious.

Do they actually think they're fooling anyone?

[Daran]

Originally Posted by master killer

I love how Ronnie Coleman, Jay cutler and company deny the obvious.

Do they actually think they're fooling anyone?

I'm pretty sure they're sick of denying it too, but it is illegal. The funniest thing I've ever seen was a video of Ronnie Coleman showing what "supplements" he takes in the morning.

Vid:

[youtube]1bXxYKEh7FE[/youtube]