Growing Liver

[Irukanji]

Is it possible, say, in vitro? There are alot of people who die because they get diseases like Hepatitis, Cirrhosis, etc usually from unprotected sex, sharing needles or drinking WAAAAAY too fucking much. Also, some bacteria/virii have been shown to cause cirrhosis. So, could you say take a piece of a liver and then grow it in vitro for the purposes of being able to save alot of people's lives? Maybe...

Discuss.

[Biggie Smalls]

Its possible... Maybe.

[Method of Madness]

It's not possible at the moment

[JoePedo]

Originally Posted by Irukanji

Is it possible, say, in vitro?

Yes.

The next question is whether it is within the realm of human technology at the moment.

Originally Posted by Irukanji

So, could you say take a piece of a liver and then grow it in vitro for the purposes of being able to save alot of people's lives?

Me?

No.

Thanks to a little primer I picked up recently, I should be able to grow functioning synthetic liver layers on glass 'n such, though. Which... is about state of the art atm, I believe.

Turns out the in vivo arrangement is vital to the intracellular signaling. Otherwise, they tend to dedifferentiate.

"Lump with arterial structures" from scratch, otoh, is a tad beyond me at the moment sadly. Best I could do is attempt a plastic arterial network with hepatolithography on micron pores, or something, and see if it can do anything from there...

Personally.

[Irukanji]

Originally Posted by Vanilla Guerilla

It's not possible at the moment

Copy/pasta of irc ramble(without most of chainhits random shit)

<Irukanji> i know you can grow stem cells and skin cells and the liver is just the next step. You can cut 1 liver in half, and it will grow back, being a gland not an organ
<chainhit> joepedo
<chainhit> is like the dissociative of forum posts
<Irukanji> so then you grow it to maximum size, then cut it in half again and regrow it to a bigger sizes
<Irukanji> you could theoretically have a bank of human livers of all possible blood types, etc
<Irukanji> then when someone wants one you sell it to them for whatever
<Irukanji> cause cirrhosis is one of the top reasons people die from alcohol
<Irukanji> then you could engineer it to produce more of a metabolite ^.^

It would need to be suspended in a liquid, something like a saline solution or something which wont dry the liver out, will keep it 100% sterile and etc. Then you would need to pump blood through it to allow the cells to have their noms and get jiggy with it and make more liver cells. Apparently if 2/3rds of the liver is destroyed it can grow back, but half is a better option to increase success rates. It is a gland, not an organ. Much like the lymph nodes(also glands) used by your immune system and also your skin, you damage it, it repairs itself.

I think JP thought i meant from scratch

[JoePedo]

Oh, hell...

...if you're talking from whole chunks, just use a heart/lung machine. They've been around since the 50s, lol.

[Irukanji]

Originally Posted by JoePedo

Oh, hell...

...if you're talking from whole chunks, just use a heart/lung machine. They've been around since the 50s, lol.

But i want to be able to harvest them, like they grow back to full size, then keep cutting bits off.

[JoePedo]

Originally Posted by Irukanji

But i want to be able to harvest them, like they grow back to full size, then keep cutting bits off.

As long as you keep leaving a large, intact-enough structure to hook up a good blood supply, it should - theoretically - work.

You'll have to find a biotically-friendly warming bath, and you might be dependent on blood donations for an infusion medium for all I know, if you're not really good at simulationg natural blood... but - again, at least in theory - as long as you've got a hookup connection, you should be able to take cuttings like you were growing a freaking plant, 'till the cows come home.

Because cows like to eat frankenlivers, you know.

[Irukanji]

Originally Posted by JoePedo

As long as you keep leaving a large, intact-enough structure to hook up a good blood supply, it should - theoretically - work.

You'll have to find a biotically-friendly warming bath, and you might be dependent on blood donations for an infusion medium for all I know, if you're not really good at simulationg natural blood... but - again, at least in theory - as long as you've got a hookup connection, you should be able to take cuttings like you were growing a freaking plant, 'till the cows come home.

Because cows like to eat frankenlivers, you know.

Haha cows. Could some sort of synthetic blood work? Like, without the cells but it still has all the nutrients the cells require. Unless my brain isnt function properly, the cells take moisture from the plasma right? So in the process of taking up plasma, it takes up the oxygenated liquid. Would seem more logical this way because using blood donations would seem like a waste(considering it can be used to save more peoples lives ya know...).

Something like a saline solution, with an air pump from a fish tank(lol) and a tank to stick the(hopefully) water soluble nutrients the liver cells require and a means to filter out dead cells from the liquid(shouldnt be too difficult considering a dissolved particle should be smaller then the average liver cell)

[Snoopy]

There is one way to heal your liver, but it's considered by most people to be pretty disgusting. Basically it involves drinking the sour watery discharge that manifests when milk solidifies into cheese. It looks greenish, taste very sour and is full of good bacteria. If consumed daily for long periods of time, it could cure a wide variety of liver diseases.

I'm not shitting you here. This is practiced in many cultures and there have been really impressive results.

[Horsebox]

Originally Posted by Irukanji

Is it possible, say, in vitro? There are alot of people who die because they get diseases like Hepatitis, Cirrhosis, etc usually from unprotected sex, sharing needles or drinking WAAAAAY too fucking much. Also, some bacteria/virii have been shown to cause cirrhosis. So, could you say take a piece of a liver and then grow it in vitro for the purposes of being able to save alot of people's lives? Maybe...

Discuss.

Do you watch the show NextWorld? There are people working on these things, they're even developing 3D biological printers which they speculate will be used to "print" organs in the future.

[Horsebox]

Originally Posted by Snoopy

There is one way to heal your liver, but it's considered by most people to be pretty disgusting. Basically it involves drinking the sour watery discharge that manifests when milk solidifies into cheese. It looks greenish, taste very sour and is full of good bacteria. If consumed daily for long periods of time, it could cure a wide variety of liver diseases.

I'm not shitting you here. This is practiced in many cultures and there have been really impressive results.

First time I've heard of this but honestly if your gonna speak use the appropriate words. We both know thats not the "one way" to heal the liver.

[Snoopy]

I didn't say it was the one, mud farmer.

[simonov]

i know 2 pepole who have had liver transplants as in a compatible person gives them half of their liver then it grows back with no ill effects to either party

[Tybalt]

Its this type of thread which I come into expecting answers ranging from 'Not my field' to 'Not possible with the type of equipment you'd have available'

What I've found is somewhat entirely more scary.

[stateofhack]

Originally Posted by Tybalt

What I've found is somewhat entirely more scary.

Welcome to F&B

[Horsebox]

Originally Posted by Snoopy

I didn't say it was the one, mud farmer.

Sorry I was stoned when I wrote that reply.

[Irukanji]

Lol. 3D printers? I'll assume the "ink" is either stem cells or all the different types of cells in the liver. And an easy way to "heal" a liver, assuming only one portion is affected(like when it goes green from copper poisoning) is to simply cut it off. The liver stores lots of different chemicals, and it can store copper(and lead and some other not-so friendly chemicals) but not excrete it. So you cut it off and it wont cause it to die(necrosis?).

But this is an option to have a large quantity of livers available for transplant as soon as required. But then again, as soon as the public and those faggot politicians make stem cells from embryos legal for widespread research and/or use, then this will no longer be required. Seriously, if stem cells are as good as they say, we could potentially live forever.

[Horsebox]

Originally Posted by Irukanji

Lol. 3D printers? I'll assume the "ink" is either stem cells or all the different types of cells in the liver.

I don't think they're stem cells they were talking about just a variety of different cell types. They actually have biological printers already and if I'm not mistaken they're coming close to being able to print simple epithelial tissue. May be a long time before they can print organs though.

[not a troll account]

Originally Posted by JoePedo

Yes.

The next question is whether it is within the realm of human technology at the moment.



Me?

No.

Thanks to a little primer I picked up recently, I should be able to grow functioning synthetic liver layers on glass 'n such, though. Which... is about state of the art atm, I believe.

Turns out the in vivo arrangement is vital to the intracellular signaling. Otherwise, they tend to dedifferentiate.

"Lump with arterial structures" from scratch, otoh, is a tad beyond me at the moment sadly. Best I could do is attempt a plastic arterial network with hepatolithography on micron pores, or something, and see if it can do anything from there...

Personally.

Why does everything have to be so black and white? In vivo? In vitro? Why not both? What if you wore a backpack and the new liver was grown using your own blood supply outside your body, surrounded by a skin graph? We've already been tapping into and rerouting peoples blood supplies externally for a long time for things like hemodialysis and cancer treatment. For a while the problem with growing cells externally was that they grew into dense masses, like a caner, but we've solved this problem lately by growing the cells around a matrix which can be changed to suit the application. Still, it's not