Would China be a democracy if sun yat sen lived longer?

[Lord hang man]

Originally Posted by Erich Von Mangstein

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Enlightenment

You're going to try and argue that i'm a dumbass because I didn't specifically say this particular movement? Are you going to try and pretend that what I'm arguing is that democracy is an idea for only the 'enlightened'? It must feel really good having your head in the sand when it suits.

Anyway, THANKYOU for bringing it back to the topic, I never elabroated on any of it with you because its derailing from the thread.

blahblahblahblah

The thread is not implying that democracy is a better way, its just asking if something closer to resembling democracy would exist in China today, had sun yat sen led the nationalist movement longer, won the support of the people and had consented authority throughout the region (remember social contract?)

No, it wouldn't. That's stupid because China needs democracy like I need some noob with a hard-on for "what-ifs" clogging up my zokletz with banal threads.

[THIS IS IMPORTANT GODDAMNIT]

Originally Posted by 老脏私生子

blahblahblahblah


No, it wouldn't. That's stupid because China needs democracy like I need some noob with a hard-on for "what-ifs" clogging up my zokletz with banal threads.

You are such a dumb ass its mind blowing. Mind yourself not to swallow mouthfuls of sand when you blurt open that mouth of yours.

[Lord hang man]

Originally Posted by Erich Von Mangstein

You are such a dumb ass its mind blowing. Mind yourself not to swallow mouthfuls of sand when you blurt open that mouth of yours.

mega-FAIL

[THIS IS IMPORTANT GODDAMNIT]

keep the rolleyes coming dude, anything is easier than actually arguing coherently and with clarity.

[Lord hang man]

Originally Posted by Erich Von Mangstein

keep the rolleyes coming dude, anything is easier than actually arguing coherently and with clarity.

See previous post.

[靠rent-a-jew輩]

Originally Posted by Erich Von Mangstein

keep the rolleyes coming dude, anything is easier than actually arguing coherently and with clarity.

You are a fucking idiot.

Good day to you sir.

[Star Wars Fan]

You're all still arguing over this? >_<

Well I can't say i'm any better given the flamewars i've been dragged into &how long they lasted.

Originally Posted by 老脏私生子

a summary of my opinion (aka TL;DR): why would China need democracy when they're already so successful, especially compared to the 100's of democratic and struggling countries of our world.

Because its' citizens should not be subject to hierarchy & authoritarian ncontrol, whether from the state or from its' "native culture". China is successful simply because of its' sheer mass and population for breakneck industrialization. Remember the United States had a similar period in its' time, and it was more democratic at that time than China is.

Don't those countries actually, need China (or China's way of governing)?

No. Neo-confucianism has a lot of shit, the only 'good' thing would possibly be things like a more stringent set of ideals that government bureaucrats go through - and even then I see a bad side to that.

How can one philosopher sabotage a country simply by living longer? I am

If the persons' philosophy is shitty and the persons' shitty philosophy grows based off his time alive to preach it, well that's a hypothetical example.

Originally Posted by 靠rent-a-jew輩

There was no revolution. The KMT under lee tung hui voluntarily liberalized. As was the fashion amongst various dictatorships in the US orbit in the early 90's. It was done mostly to make Taiwans position in international relations more superior.

I was referring to the native Formosan insurgents who rose up against the Republic of China some time after Japan surrendered & Taiwan was returned to China in retrocession. They were native Taiwanese who wanted to separate from the ROC and become an independent nation, they considered themselved different from "mainlanders". The KMT was made of mainlanders who crushed that rebellion & suppressed native Taiwanese languages until the 1990s. The native taiwanese wanted to overthrow the KMT & become an independent country basically and they failed - thats what I was referring to.

To make possible more righteous finger pointing over the Taiwan straits.

"look at those savage communists, we have democracy, this is the righteous way long live sun yat sen etc. etc."

lol, the ROC ideals & flag is bad-ass but Kai-Shek sucked. But Yat-Sen had no problem getting involved in the civil wars & forming military governments as well.

Originally Posted by Erich Von Mangstein

Anyway, THANKYOU for bringing it back to the topic, I never elabroated on any of it with you because its derailing from the thread.

Anyone want to respond to me

The thread is not implying that democracy is a better way, its just asking if something closer to resembling democracy would exist in China today, had sun yat sen led the nationalist movement longer, won the support of the people and had consented authority throughout the region (remember social contract?)

I'd say yes for the stuff mentioned earlier even if Yat-Sen had no problem setting up military governments (yes it was a civil war/warlordism time period of cliques and whatnot). For the stuff he wrote down ("three principles of the people")

I forgot this.

EDIT:

Mínzú
The Principle of Mínzú (民族主義, Mínzú Zhǔyì) is commonly rendered as "nationalism", literally "the People's relation" or "government of the People." By this, Sun meant freedom from imperialist domination. To achieve this he believed that China must develop a "civic-nationalism," Zhonghua Minzu, as opposed to an "ethnic-nationalism," so as to unite all of the different ethnicities of China, mainly composed by the five major groups of Han, Mongols, Tibetans, Manchus, and the Muslims (such as the Uyghurs), which together are symbolized by the Five Color Flag of the First Republic (1911–1928). This sense of nationalism is different from the idea of "ethnocentrism," which equates to the same meaning of nationalism in Chinese language. To achieve this he believed that China must develop a "national conciousness" so as to unite the Han in the face of imperialist aggression.He argued that "minzu", which can be translated as "people", "nationality" "race", were defined by sharing common blood, livelihood, religion, language and customs.
[edit]Mínquán
The Principle of Mínquán (民權主義, Mínquán Zhǔyì) is usually translated as "democracy"; literally "the People's power" or "government by the People." To Sun, it represented a Western constitutional government. First, he divided political life of his ideal for China into two sets of 'powers':
[edit]Powers
[edit]Politics
The power of politics (政權, zhèngquán) are the powers of the people to express their political wishes, similar to those vested in the citizenry or the parliaments in other countries, and is represented by the National Assembly. There are four of these powers: election (選舉), recall (罷免), initiative (創製), and referendum (複決). These may be equated to "civil rights".
[edit]Governance
The power of governance (治權, zhìquán) are the powers of administration. Here he expanded the European-American constitutional theory of a three-branch government and a system of checks and balances by incorporating traditional Chinese administrative tradition to create a government of five branches (each of which is called a Yuan (院, yuàn) or 'court'). The Legislative Yuan, the Executive Yuan, and the Judicial Yuan came from Montesquieuan thought; the Control Yuan and the Examination Yuan came from Chinese tradition. (Note that the Legislative Yuan was first intended as a branch of governance, not strictly equivalent to a national parliament.)
[edit]Mínshēng
The Principle of Mínshēng (民生主義, Mínshēng Zhǔyì) is sometimes translated as "the People's welfare/livelihood," "Government for the People". Through this, Sun meant socialism (democratic socialism) and communism, though the government of Chiang Kai-shek and onward shied away from translating it as such. He defined this principle of saying in his last days "it's socialism and it's communism.". The concept may be understood as social welfare as well. Sun understood it as an industrial economy and equality of land holdings for the Chinese peasant farmers. Here he was influenced by the American thinker Henry George (see Georgism) and German thinker Karl Marx; the land value tax in Taiwan is a legacy thereof. He divided livelihood into four areas: food, clothing, housing, and transportation; and planned out how an ideal (Chinese) government can take care of these for its people.
Members of the Kuomintang said that mingsheng zhuyi itself meant socialism.[1] Dr. Sun and the Kuomintang defintely defined Minsheng as socialism, using the term as another word for socialism when referring to socialist parties in Europe.[2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_P..._of_the_People

[Lord hang man]

Originally Posted by Star Wars Fan

You're all still arguing over this? >_<

Well I can't say i'm any better given the flamewars i've been dragged into &how long they lasted.

Because its' citizens should not be subject to hierarchy & authoritarian ncontrol, whether from the state or from its' "native culture". China is successful simply because of its' sheer mass and population for breakneck industrialization. Remember the United States had a similar period in its' time, and it was more democratic at that time than China is.

That's just an opinion. China has either the most successful or the second most successful economy in the world. It's a leader of business, culture, trade, military, and probably many other fields as well. How would democracy enhance what they are already doing so well (if I may ask)???

No. Neo-confucianism has a lot of shit, the only 'good' thing would possibly be things like a more stringent set of ideals that government bureaucrats go through - and even then I see a bad side to that.

But they're literally fucking us up the ass in most ways. Surely you can't deny this?

If the persons' philosophy is shitty and the persons' shitty philosophy grows based off his time alive to preach it, well that's a hypothetical example.

Oh thank you that's exactly what I was suggesting but you so succinctly...repeated me.