Why YOU Believe in God(s) - Cognitive Neuroscience of Religion

[Gun Lover]

I just came across this excellent video that briefly lays the foundation for why humans believe the way they do.

Why YOU Believe in God(s)

Why YOU Believe in God(s)
Video: click to display

I dare YOU to watch it, R&S.

[Nigger-8]

Bump, come on faggots. Scared of a little science?

[Danger]

Originally Posted by Wernher von Braun

"They challenge science to prove the existence of God. But must we really light a candle to see the sun?"

"My experiences with science led me to God"

"For me, the idea of a creation is not conceivable without invoking the necessity of design. "

"One cannot be exposed to the law and order of the universe without concluding that there must be design and purpose behind it all."

"It is in scientific honesty that I endorse the presentation of alternative theories for the origin of the universe, life and man in the science classroom. It would be an error to overlook the possibility that the universe was planned rather than happening by chance."

"Science does not have a moral dimension. It is like a knife. If you give it to a surgeon or a murderer, each will use it differently. "

..

[Ambient]

This video has some neuro-theology in it:

Linguist George Lakoff on Rationality and Politics - YouTube

Linguist George Lakoff on Rationality and Politics - YouTube
Video: click to display

[Hydroponichronic]

Got halfway through, struck me as utterly commonsense. Worth finishing?

[Nigger-8]

*inhale* Alright. Time for a real post.

"They challenge science to prove the existence of God. But must we really light a candle to see the sun?"

I don't really see how this shows anything. Is he trying that whole "the existence of God is self-evident" shit?

"My experiences with science led me to God"

Oh, that's nice. I'm certainly convinced. His experiences with science led him to God! It's all so obvious now.

"For me, the idea of a creation is not conceivable without invoking the necessity of design. "

That would make sense, if the universe was created.

"One cannot be exposed to the law and order of the universe without concluding that there must be design and purpose behind it all."

There is no design or purpose other than what you impose. So fuck him.

"It is in scientific honesty that I endorse the presentation of alternative theories for the origin of the universe, life and man in the science classroom. It would be an error to overlook the possibility that the universe was planned rather than happening by chance."

Hooray! Creationism! Yes, let's teach a theory with no evidence along with the theory with evidence! Brilliant. Go fuck yourself.

"Science does not have a moral dimension. It is like a knife. If you give it to a surgeon or a murderer, each will use it differently. "

Yup, that's true. And self-apparent.

tl;dr - faggot

[Gun Lover]

Originally Posted by Hydroponichronic

Got halfway through, struck me as utterly commonsense. Worth finishing?

You're smart enough to realize what the fuck's going on without the video. It was all pretty obvious to me also, but I couldn't have put it as succinctly as Thomson did. I didn't address this video to people such as yourself, mostly just the R&S fanatics

[Obbe]

Why do people believe in their own individuality? Is it something in the brain?

[Figure-8]

Don't let them fool ya.

[Darkhunter]

Originally Posted by Figure-8

Don't let them fool ya.

So what do or don't you believe in that video?

[Danger]

Originally Posted by Darkhunter

So what do or don't you believe in that video?

I believe that video has a narrow "definition" of god. the video literally made me fall asleep, there's no way I could watch all that shit...

[Danger]

God is the transcendent reality of which the material universe and human beings are only manifestations

^/thread

[Gun Lover]

Originally Posted by Danger

God is the transcendent reality of which the material universe and human beings are only manifestations

You can define God however you want, but it still doesn't make the definition correct.

God =/= Reality

Reality = Reality

[Danger]

Originally Posted by Gun Lover

You can define God however you want, but it still doesn't make the definition correct.

You've been brainwashed by naive realist pan-atheists.

The Tao that can be told is not the
eternal Tao.
The name that can be named is not the
eternal name.
The nameless is the beginning of
heaven and Earth.
The named is the mother of the ten
thousand things.

[Gun Lover]

Originally Posted by Danger

You've been brainwashed by naive realist pan-atheists.

I disagree. I am only adhering proper English definitions.

Calling a door a toaster doesn't change anything. It just reveals one's failure to grasp the language.

[Danger]

Originally Posted by Gun Lover

I disagree. I am only adhering proper English definitions.

Calling a door a toaster doesn't change anything. It just reveals one's failure to grasp the language.

You've never heard of pantheism or taoism?? they are among the worlds oldest "religions"

Language is constantly evolving & this "definition" of god has been around for thousands of years..


you're using semantics to separate yourself from reality...

Everything is energy, we're all connected.. Matter is energy condensed to a slow vibration & quantum physics has proven that electrons travel in waves.. they are litterally everywhere connecting everything.....

[Darkhunter]

Originally Posted by Danger

I believe that video has a narrow "definition" of god. the video literally made me fall asleep, there's no way I could watch all that shit...

Well according to Ate you aren't religious and believe in the lie.

[Danger]

Originally Posted by Darkhunter

Well according to Ate you aren't religious and believe in the lie.

[Obbe]

Originally Posted by Gun Lover

I disagree. I am only adhering proper English definitions.

And the idea that "you" are an actual individual. Why do you believe that? Is it something in the brain?

[Darkhunter]

Originally Posted by Danger

Read his posts; if you don't believe in what he does you have demons and are acting out of spite rather than truth.

[Obbe]

Originally Posted by Darkhunter

Read his posts; if you don't believe in what he does you have demons and are acting out of spite rather than truth.

What does your obsession with ate have to do with you believing in the idea that you are actually an individual? Is it something in your brain?

[Danger]

Originally Posted by Darkhunter

Read his posts; if you don't believe in what he does you have demons and are acting out of spite rather than truth.

it dosn't really concern me, ate's cool & I call bs.. it's completely off topic anyway which is why I posted the

Why are you so obsessed with ate anyways? live & let live bro...

[Darkhunter]

Originally Posted by Obbe

What does your obsession with ate have to do with you believing in the idea that you are actually an individual? Is it something in your brain?

Originally Posted by Danger

it dosn't really concern me, ate's cool & I call bs.. it's completely off topic anyway which is why I posted the

Why are you so obsessed with ate anyways? live & let live bro...

It actually has to do with the on-topicness; he believes in a convoluted definition of God that isn't logical.

[Obbe]

Why do you believe the idea that you are an actual individual? Is it something to do with the brain?

[Darkhunter]

Originally Posted by Obbe

Why do you believe the idea that you are an actual individual? Is it something to do with the brain?

Do you believe me and you are the same or are one?

[Gun Lover]

Originally Posted by Danger

Everything is energy, we're all connected.. Matter is energy condensed to a slow vibration & quantum physics has proven that electrons travel in waves.. they are litterally everywhere connecting everything, everywhere.....

I understand what you're getting at.

What I still don't get is why you choose to deem this phenomenon "God." It better fits the definition of the English word, "reality."

Originally Posted by Obbe

And the idea that "you" are an actual individual. Why do you believe that? Is it something in the brain?

Indeed it is "something in the brain." Specifically the prefrontal cortex which is responsible for humans' sense of self and overall consciousness.

I am not you, and you are not me. I think it's preposterous to imply that you and I and all the other humans are the same being.

[Obbe]

Originally Posted by Darkhunter

Do you believe me and you are the same or are one?

I believe that it is a matter of perspective, and that from a certain perspective, yes.

Originally Posted by Gun Lover

Indeed it is "something in the brain." Specifically the prefrontal cortex which is responsible for humans' sense of self and overall consciousness.

So you agree that "individuality" is just a sensation produced by the brain?

Originally Posted by Gun Lover

I am not you, and you are not me. I think it's preposterous to imply that you and I and all the other humans are the same being.

It is simply a matter of perspective. While you might think that suggestion is preposterous, another might think the suggestion that we are all individuals is preposterous.

[Danger]

Originally Posted by Gun Lover

I am not you, and you are not me. I think it's preposterous to imply that you and I and all the other humans are the same being.

Like Obbe said, its a matter of perspective, when you look at bacteria do you look at each single-cell as an individual?

[Obbe]

Originally Posted by Gun Lover

What I still don't get is why you choose to deem this phenomenon "God." It better fits the definition of the English word, "reality."

I don't understand why it matters what he calls it. You understand the meaning, but you're hung up on his sociolect?

God is the correct term for a pantheist to use.

[Gun Lover]

Originally Posted by Obbe

So you agree that "individuality" is just a sensation produced by the brain?

I agree that everything that makes you and I conscious is "just a sensation in the brain."

Originally Posted by Obbe

While you might think that suggestion is preposterous, another might think the suggestion that we are all individuals is preposterous.

You're correct. However, some perspectives are flat out wrong.

For instance, it is the perspective of some that the Earth is less than 10,000 years old or that the Earth is flat. I don't care if it's their perspective, it's just flat wrong.

In the immortal words of the Great Billo, "Tides come in, tides go out. You can't explain that."

[Obbe]

Originally Posted by Gun Lover

I agree that everything that makes you and I conscious is "just a sensation in the brain."

So then why does it matter if someones sensation is a little different than your own?

Originally Posted by Gun Lover

You're correct. However, some perspectives are flat out wrong.

Believing that you are an individual, or believing we are all one, or believing that the whole issue is just a matter of perspective isn't wrong or right.

[Gun Lover]

Originally Posted by Obbe

So then why does it matter if someones sensation is a little different than your own?

When someone's demonstrably wrong, I seek to help them by correcting them and thus spreading knowledge.

I expect the same from other people when I am demonstrably wrong.

Believing that you are an individual, or believing we are all one, or believing that the whole issue is just a matter of perspective isn't wrong or right.

I disagree. Human individuality is founded in psychology and anthropology. "We are all one" is not founded by any empirical principles that I am aware of. Please educate me.

It is all perspective, but not all perspectives are correct.

[Obbe]

Originally Posted by Gun Lover

When someone's demonstrably wrong, I seek to help them by correcting them and thus spreading knowledge.

They may be different than you, but no, you haven't shown how anyone is wrong.

What is wrong about believing in God?

Originally Posted by Gun Lover

I disagree. Human individuality is founded in psychology and anthropology.

Human individuality is nothing more than an idea. The sciences can be used to support that idea, but they can also be used to support that idea that "all is one", as well. Physics, biology, etc. can be used in this way.

You are the one who is claiming that individuality is more correct than other perspectives. You have a burden to prove that.

Oh, and you missed this:

Originally Posted by Obbe

I don't understand why it matters what he calls it. You understand the meaning, but you're hung up on his sociolect?

God is the correct term for a pantheist to use.

[Danger]

Originally Posted by Gun Lover

When someone's demonstrably wrong, I seek to help them by correcting them and thus spreading knowledge.

I expect the same from other people when I am demonstrably wrong.


I disagree. Human individuality is founded in psychology and anthropology. "We are all one" is not founded by any empirical principles that I am aware of. Please educate me.

It is all perspective, but not all perspectives are correct.

The scientific truth is that we are deeply connected to the cosmic flow of everything. We are inside the Universe, the Universe is inside of us, it surrounds us, it constitutes our very being, it sustains our existence, it will someday destroy us to make room for something new, and we're co-creators with the natural flow of things (whether we prove ourselves worthy is yet to be seen).

We are the intelligence and personality of the Universe so, in this very real sense, it cares as much as we care about one another, other life, and the rest of the cosmos. You can't talk about the Universe without incorporating us into the equation. We are the evidence that the Universe cares or doesn't care. The choice is ours. You see what I mean about cultural conditioning, we still talk about ourselves as if we're something separate from the cosmos. It's helped us by bringing the sun into existence and allowing the Earth system to form in a way suitable for life. It may not have consciously done this, but trees don't consciously produce fruit. It's up to us to create something new and harmonious with the rest of the system using our "cosmic-given" intelligence and personality.

What do we give in return? Well, for one thing intelligent beings are really good at maximizing net entropy over the long term and the Universe follows the Second Law of Thermodynamics strictly so I guess we do offer it that. Some postulate that the central focus of cosmic activity is to create black holes, which could then spawn new universes in some sort of cosmic reproductive cycle. We simply don't know yet. We don't have to know what is it though, because we're fulfilling our "natural niche" by virtue of our existence.

Are you made of atoms, molecules, and chemicals? Where did they all come from? The interactions of subatomic particles and quantum fluctuations in the beginning (or before the beginning) of the Universe, nuclear fusion in the center of stars, and chemical evolution in Earth's system within the Universe. I didn't mean the entire Universe is inside you, but there's literally nothing that constitutes your being that hasn't been produced through the Cosmic system.

[Gun Lover]

^cool post, I'll read it in a bit

Obbe: It's wrong to misuse the English language.

I'm done for now. The game's on, and I have some beers to drink

[Obbe]

Originally Posted by Gun Lover

Obbe: It's wrong to misuse the English language.

It's wrong to say that someone is wrong, when you understand the meaning they are trying to communicate to you but can't grasp or cannot get past the fact that they are simply using a different sociolect than you are used to, and that there is actually nothing wrong with that.

Originally Posted by Gun Lover

I'm done for now. The game's on, and I have some beers to drink

That's it. Go get drunk and try not to think about how pretentious you have been here.

[Figure-8]

Originally Posted by Gun Lover

You can define God however you want, but it still doesn't make the definition correct.

God =/= Reality

Reality = Reality

Reality =/= Senses

[Darkhunter]

Originally Posted by Figure-8

Reality =/= Senses

Sense = How you perceive reality.

[AdMech]

Originally Posted by Obbe

That's it. Go get drunk and try not to think about how pretentious you have been here.

Gun Lover is possibly the least pretentious individual () who has posted in this thread so far, and most open to discussion and new ideas. See how he doesn't insult his opponents, and gamely considers their positions, and gives every appearance of enjoying what he is trying to make an honest exchange of ideas?

[Obbe]

Originally Posted by AdMech

Gun Lover is possibly the least pretentious individual () who has posted in this thread so far, and most open to discussion and new ideas. See how he doesn't insult his opponents, and gamely considers their positions, and gives every appearance of enjoying what he is trying to make an honest exchange of ideas?

No, it didn't really appear that way to me. Looked more like he's trying to rub something in R&S's collective face. But if he's actually considering our positions while sleeping off his hangover, well, that's good, and I really anticipate his reply.