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  #1  
Old 11-02-2011, 06:03 PM
LavaRed LavaRed is offline
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Default I need a gun law proposal for my country

Through some twists and turns of fate, I was asked by a very good friend who workes for a gun-rights organization to help him draft a gun-law proposal for my country.
The idea is to have a working initiative that truly allows for keeping the guns out of criminal hands while allowing law-abiding citizens to posses and carry guns for self-defense, sports, recreation, and collecting.
So I need examples of measures that have worked in other countries towards these purposes. Documented examples are a must.

Thanks,
LavaRed
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  #2  
Old 11-02-2011, 06:31 PM
Gun Lover Gun Lover is offline
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Default Re: I need a gun law proposal for my country

Quote:
Originally Posted by LavaRed View Post
The idea is to have a working initiative that truly allows for keeping the guns out of criminal hands while allowing law-abiding citizens to posses and carry guns for self-defense, sports, recreation, and collecting.
I'm not sure this is possible.

If gangs/cartels can get any other illegal item, what kind of law is going to stop the flow of RPGs and other surplus military hardware? Meanwhile, "gun control" just prevents law-abiding citizens from protecting themselves, recreational shooting, or hunting.

Prohibition doesn't work, plain and simple.
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  #3  
Old 11-02-2011, 07:08 PM
LavaRed LavaRed is offline
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Default Re: I need a gun law proposal for my country

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Originally Posted by Gun Lover View Post
I'm not sure this is possible.

If gangs/cartels can get any other illegal item, what kind of law is going to stop the flow of RPGs and other surplus military hardware? Meanwhile, "gun control" just prevents law-abiding citizens from protecting themselves, recreational shooting, or hunting.

Prohibition doesn't work, plain and simple.
Oh no, prohibition is not the point. Legalization is the idea. But in such a way as to make sure that if people use guns to commit illegal acts, they can be quickly brought to justice.

Prohibition only makes it easier to obtain illegal arms.

I don't know if that makes sense?
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Old 11-02-2011, 07:22 PM
Gun Lover Gun Lover is offline
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Default Re: I need a gun law proposal for my country

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Originally Posted by LavaRed View Post
But in such a way as to make sure that if people use guns to commit illegal acts they can be quickly brought to justice.
Personally, I can't see any way that this could happen.

If the wealthiest, most technologically advanced "police" in the world (FBI, CIA, NYPD, etc.) can't reliably do it, I don't see how it could happen Guatemala, my friend. The lack of funds and proper infrastructure would make it incredibly difficult.

Perhaps my views are myopic and overly pessimistic. I'd definitely love to see a solution to this problem.

I've always applauded your noble work to do legitimate good for the people of your country. From G.O.G. to this, it's apparent the world could use more people like you
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  #5  
Old 11-02-2011, 07:46 PM
ratfrink ratfrink is offline
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Default Re: I need a gun law proposal for my country

This is pretty interesting. I'd be very happy to support less restrictive gun laws in the UK, so long as it was designed to suit the nature of crime in our country. What are the gun restriction laws like to begin with?

What would the primary use of legal guns be, self defence or hobby use? The UK doesn't allow concealable weapons; rifles and shotguns for hobby use are all fine and dandy. We had a looooong old thread about gun laws in the UK about 18 months ago - IIRC by far the greatest use of illegal weapons in this country is for on-street armed robbery (mugging) and gang-related violence - and pistols are the most common weapon for both. Property invasion (especially armed property invasion) is, compared to the US, extremely rare. Criminals are unlikely to wander around in public with a fecking huge shotgun, but it's very practical to keep the same weapon at home for self defence. Consequently, if mugging-type incidents (where a concealable pistol would be the ideal weapon, both for the attacker and defender) are relatively rare, but property invasion is relatively common, then you might consider keeping concealable weapons illegal*, and legalising non-concealable weapons for property defence (and hobby use).

I don't have any examples, though.

*presumably because the majority of hobbyists use rifles and shotguns, rather than pistols - and therefore there's no need to make concealable weapons legal and therefore easier for criminals to obtain.

Last edited by ratfrink; 11-02-2011 at 07:49 PM.
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Old 11-02-2011, 08:09 PM
LavaRed LavaRed is offline
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Default Re: I need a gun law proposal for my country

Current law allows for the possesion of semi-automatic, bolt action, single shot, rifles and shotguns. It also allows for the possesion and carry of semi-automatic, revolver, and single shot handguns. They'll also allow for the carry of defensive shotguns but not rifles.
Each weapon has to be registered, and a registration license issued. For carrying, a separate license must be applied for and issued.

You can not legally buy ammunition without pesenting your registration license, and then only 200 cartridges a month. The gun store has to ask the Gun Control Agency for authorization before going forward with the sale.

Military-grade weaponry is forbidden. Silencers are a gray area.

The problem with the system is that it's very discretionary, and therefore it makes it very hard to obtain a weapon legally. To the point that the illegal weapons market is far cheaper and simpler and complete. The illegal ammunition market is also very vast.

Also, I'm not just doing this from the goodness of my heart. I have a vested interest, specifically, to promote the creation of a collector's category for MachineGuns and suppressors and military-grade weaponry, so that I can legally possess my collection. So it's not exactly noble. It just happens to be a cause that aligns with my beliefs.

It's a very complex problem because my country has a very high rate of muggins and petty crime, but also a lot of organized crime. And total prohibition is obviously not going to cut it down.

Last edited by LavaRed; 11-02-2011 at 08:20 PM.
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Old 11-04-2011, 05:32 AM
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Default Re: I need a gun law proposal for my country

Finland has very sane gun laws, notes Rolf. The only difference Rolf would make to such laws is an allowance for firearms for self-defence; however Rolf can see why in countries with low crime rates why self-defence is not considered a legitimate reason, states Rolf.
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Old 11-04-2011, 05:36 AM
LavaRed LavaRed is offline
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Default Re: I need a gun law proposal for my country

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Originally Posted by Rolf View Post
Finland has very sane gun laws, notes Rolf. The only difference Rolf would make to such laws is an allowance for firearms for self-defence; however Rolf can see why in countries with low crime rates why self-defence is not considered a legitimate reason, states Rolf.
Would you be able to supply me with a detailed overview of those laws?

Thank you,
LavaRed
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Old 11-04-2011, 05:52 AM
944 944 is offline
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Default Re: I need a gun law proposal for my country

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Originally Posted by ratfrink View Post
*presumably because the majority of hobbyists use rifles and shotguns, rather than pistols - and therefore there's no need to make concealable weapons legal and therefore easier for criminals to obtain.
Pistol shooters outnumber serious long gun shooters by a lot from a target shooter standpoint, I'm not taking hunters into consideration with this, just talking about the competitive shooting world.


Just pulling this from my ass, but I wouldn't surprised if there are 10 pistol guys for every trap shooter, and 10 trap shooters for every precision rifle guy
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  #10  
Old 11-04-2011, 05:55 AM
LavaRed LavaRed is offline
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Default Re: I need a gun law proposal for my country

I would be especially grateful for links and files to studies about how better gun laws prevent crime and create more positive societies. This is a serious project and it took me a lot of effort and networking to get involved.

Thanks,
Lava
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  #11  
Old 11-04-2011, 06:01 AM
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Default Re: I need a gun law proposal for my country

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Originally Posted by LavaRed View Post
Would you be able to supply me with a detailed overview of those laws?
Rolf will not go into too much detail; as that is available on websites such as Wikipedia, states Rolf.

The basics are:
  • Firearms require a license, valid reason (hunting, sports, there is quite a few) needed,
  • Concealed carry allowed basically only by those with professional requirements and special training,
  • Each firearm must be licensed, though there is no limit on the amount of firearms one can own though a certified safe is required if one owns five or more firearms,
  • Handguns are quite easy to obtain, automatic firearms are difficult to obtain,
  • Crossbows are considered air rifles in legal categories, air rifles are not licensed,
  • Suppressors are not considered weapon parts, therefore are completely legal, lists Rolf.
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  #12  
Old 11-04-2011, 06:07 AM
LavaRed LavaRed is offline
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Default Re: I need a gun law proposal for my country

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolf View Post
Rolf will not go into too much detail; as that is available on websites such as Wikipedia, states Rolf.

The basics are:
  • Firearms require a license, valid reason (hunting, sports, there is quite a few) needed,
  • Concealed carry allowed basically only by those with professional requirements and special training,
  • Each firearm must be licensed, though there is no limit on the amount of firearms one can own though a certified safe is required if one owns five or more firearms,
  • Handguns are quite easy to obtain, automatic firearms are difficult to obtain,
  • Crossbows are considered air rifles in legal categories, air rifles are not licensed,
  • Suppressors are not considered weapon parts, therefore are completely legal, lists Rolf.
Thank you Your Rolfness . This has been most helpful.
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