Zoklet.net

Go Back   Zoklet.net > Entertainment > Book & Language Nook

View Poll Results: Do you read your books on kindle?
Yes I do read books on kindle or something similar 22 36.67%
No I read a classic paper book 32 53.33%
I don't read at all, I just wanted to visit this thread 6 10.00%
Voters: 60. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #41  
Old 03-13-2012, 06:19 PM
Shrike's Avatar
Shrike Shrike is offline
Slightly Grander Duke
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Let's get scratchin'
Thanks: 449
Thanked 916 Times in 630 Posts
Default Re: Kindle vs Classic book

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanny View Post
So what? What's a "timeless format"? What benefit does it confer? I'm sorry but all this dead-tree book nostalgia is just a bunch of superstitious magical thinking, as though paper bound with glue is some sort of magical token that protects you from the demons of ignorance or some shit like that. The format doesn't matter, any intelligent person knows that, it's the content. And the kindle is a cheaper more efficient way of delivering identical content.

Will any given kindle still exist in a hundred years? No, probably not, but the files will. Text files, especially widely distributed ones, are a lot more persistent than rotting paper. Also you're "lasts a hundred years" claim (which is still poorer than digital text) doesn't hold true any more. Maybe when we were printing books on cotton paper or similar high quality material but the pulp we print on now? I doubt it would last 50 in a readable state.
You should probably read the article I quoted and linked, it's good. A book is as timeless a format as we've currently got, seeing as you can still read books from hundreds, even thousands of years ago. And things are not just about content, format is very important too. Context to the content, if you like.

Digital formats die out pretty quickly you know. And then if you want to read an old file in a dead format, you either have to port it to the new one, or emulate it etc, which isn't always possible.

As for your 'more widely distributed' point, yes that may be increasingly the case with greater internet adoption, but it's certainly not infallible. Websites get shut down all the time, hard drives get corrupted, data lost. I'm glad at least you didn't try and invoke "the cloud", which is a completely bullshit term meaning essentially "stuff stored on other people's hard drives accessed over the internet." Yeah a company like Google or whoever is storing this data is unlikely to go offline within 5 or 10 years, but after that- who can say? How many companies that are players today were around a century ago? Not many.

Your last point is bullshit though. I have a book in my hands from 1911 and it's a massmarket printing of some Dickens stories, still perfectly readable if a bit musty. And how can you be sure that that's "poorer than digital text". We haven't had digital text for that long! We don't even know how long the rewritable ink lasts in CD-RWs for god's sake because they haven't been around long enough for us to find out.

Last edited by Shrike; 03-13-2012 at 06:24 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 03-13-2012, 06:24 PM
broseph's Avatar
broseph broseph is offline
Marquis
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: england
Thanks: 337
Thanked 315 Times in 249 Posts
Default Re: Kindle vs Classic book

who says it's up to the general reader to concern themselves with all that stuff?
__________________
there may be diamonds in that hill in my dream,
but the people who live there still complain...
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 03-13-2012, 06:26 PM
Shrike's Avatar
Shrike Shrike is offline
Slightly Grander Duke
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Let's get scratchin'
Thanks: 449
Thanked 916 Times in 630 Posts
Default Re: Kindle vs Classic book

Quote:
Originally Posted by broseph View Post
who says it's up to the general reader to concern themselves with all that stuff?
It isn't, just if literally everyone goes over to e-readers, I think we will have lost something valuable.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 03-13-2012, 10:53 PM
Lanny Lanny is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Tarth
Thanks: 1,377
Thanked 1,868 Times in 1,338 Posts
Default Re: Kindle vs Classic book

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caramello Koala View Post
In my opinion that's the worst part about the Kindle; it means that authors, who already get paid jack shit for their work, will potentially earn even less, and therefore have less incentive to write more great books. Talk about a lose/lose situation.
I saw a video of Paul Graham talking about this, and he made a really good point. Basically he said that good books have almost always been written for their own sake, and poor ones for money. Obviously there are exceptions, but this tends to be the rule. Most artists don't collect significant dividends on their writings in their lifetimes anyway. I don't really see literature piracy as anything other than getting more knowledge to more people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrike View Post
You should probably read the article I quoted and linked, it's good. A book is as timeless a format as we've currently got, seeing as you can still read books from hundreds, even thousands of years ago. And things are not just about content, format is very important too. Context to the content, if you like.
And what "context" does a mashed up tree add to literature?

Quote:
Digital formats die out pretty quickly you know. And then if you want to read an old file in a dead format, you either have to port it to the new one, or emulate it etc, which isn't always possible.
That's why we distribute in plain text, UTF-8, god of all formats .

Quote:
As for your 'more widely distributed' point, yes that may be increasingly the case with greater internet adoption, but it's certainly not infallible. Websites get shut down all the time, hard drives get corrupted, data lost. I'm glad at least you didn't try and invoke "the cloud", which is a completely bullshit term meaning essentially "stuff stored on other people's hard drives accessed over the internet." Yeah a company like Google or whoever is storing this data is unlikely to go offline within 5 or 10 years, but after that- who can say? How many companies that are players today were around a century ago? Not many.
Yeah, but there are usenet files from aaaages ago that are still floating around the web. You're right, digital media fails more often than hard media, generally. However, you can make an arbitrary number of clones of digital media. Fast too. I have no fear of digital copies of books ever disappearing.

[quoteYour last point is bullshit though. I have a book in my hands from 1911 and it's a massmarket printing of some Dickens stories, still perfectly readable if a bit musty. And how can you be sure that that's "poorer than digital text". We haven't had digital text for that long! We don't even know how long the rewritable ink lasts in CD-RWs for god's sake because they haven't been around long enough for us to find out.[/quote]

Again, individual copies don't have to last a long time. As long as we have one, somewhere in the world, we can make a million copies in a day. A lot better than you can say for any dead tree out there. It also doesn't take massive warehouses to store digital literature. I could store the written works of man in a harddrive you could carry in your pocket.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 03-13-2012, 11:50 PM
Shrike's Avatar
Shrike Shrike is offline
Slightly Grander Duke
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Let's get scratchin'
Thanks: 449
Thanked 916 Times in 630 Posts
Default Re: Kindle vs Classic book

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanny View Post
And what "context" does a mashed up tree add to literature?
Design of the book, the typesetting, the feel of it, any illustrations etc. Margin notes left by previous readers etc.

Quote:
Yeah, but there are usenet files from aaaages ago that are still floating around the web. You're right, digital media fails more often than hard media, generally. However, you can make an arbitrary number of clones of digital media. Fast too. I have no fear of digital copies of books ever disappearing.
Why not though? Home movie buffs have had to re-buy their collections several times as technology updated, from VHS to DVD to Blu-Ray (and that's not even counting the several failed formats they might have bought into like Betamax, Laserdisc, HD-DVD etc). Why wouldn't the same be true for e-books? You're not looking at it from a long enough perspective.

Quote:
Again, individual copies don't have to last a long time. As long as we have one, somewhere in the world, we can make a million copies in a day. A lot better than you can say for any dead tree out there. It also doesn't take massive warehouses to store digital literature. I could store the written works of man in a harddrive you could carry in your pocket.
You can't make a million copies in a day of a file sitting around on someone's old piece of shit computer, assuming the computer even works after sitting in an attic for however long.
Yeah you can store a lot of stuff on a hard drive, though if that drive breaks you're fucked. Also, with technology ever progressing, who's to say that one day there's not some war and someone develops a virus that gets out of control and spreads over every networked computer and wipes everything? Or even just good old-fashioned EMP from nuclear war. It's not completely far-fetched, is it? In your future with no hard copies of anything we'd be completely screwed.

Also what is with the shitty "dead tree" insults? You sound like someone from 1995 talking about "snail mail". Give it a rest.

Last edited by Shrike; 03-13-2012 at 11:53 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 03-13-2012, 11:57 PM
mizled's Avatar
mizled mizled is offline
Badministrator
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: overlooking the lunatic fringe
Thanks: 2,344
Thanked 2,627 Times in 1,663 Posts
Default Re: Kindle vs Classic book

Bad poll. No option for IPad.
(if you think it's similar to a Kindle.. whateva baby..)
I've got lot's of paper though.
__________________
--

--
Self loathing is the fate of all great iconoclasts.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 03-14-2012, 12:08 AM
broseph's Avatar
broseph broseph is offline
Marquis
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: england
Thanks: 337
Thanked 315 Times in 249 Posts
Default Re: Kindle vs Classic book

reading on an ipad is reading on a PC screen.

kindles replicate the non-glare surface of a book well enough, an ipad doesn't. it's a different experience all over again.
__________________
there may be diamonds in that hill in my dream,
but the people who live there still complain...
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 03-14-2012, 02:10 AM
Caramello Koala's Avatar
Caramello Koala Caramello Koala is offline
Knight
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: a witty saying proves nothing
Thanks: 248
Thanked 145 Times in 101 Posts
Default Re: Kindle vs Classic book

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanny View Post
I saw a video of Paul Graham talking about this, and he made a really good point. Basically he said that good books have almost always been written for their own sake, and poor ones for money. Obviously there are exceptions, but this tends to be the rule. Most artists don't collect significant dividends on their writings in their lifetimes anyway. I don't really see literature piracy as anything other than getting more knowledge to more people.
Fair enough, that is true to an extent, but even on a subconscious level those authors want to receive monetary recognition for the time and effort of their work, and they want to see sales, as sales show them how much of an audience is reading their work. I'm not against piracy, I would be a hypocrite if I said I was as I download music and movies all the time, but books don't cost much, and writers make squat, I think it's only fair to at least support them?
__________________
endofthegame.net
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 03-14-2012, 04:21 AM
Lanny Lanny is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Tarth
Thanks: 1,377
Thanked 1,868 Times in 1,338 Posts
Default Re: Kindle vs Classic book

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrike View Post
Design of the book, the typesetting, the feel of it, any illustrations etc. Margin notes left by previous readers etc.
. If you _really_ want typsetting X, you can go ahead and turn the levers or knobs you need to get that on your digital display. We can already handle illustrations fine. What's more is the digital format is far better suited to augmented media. You can put as many pictures in your ebook as you want, it doesn't increase the cost of distribution at all. That's not true of paper books.

Quote:
Why not though? Home movie buffs have had to re-buy their collections several times as technology updated, from VHS to DVD to Blu-Ray (and that's not even counting the several failed formats they might have bought into like Betamax, Laserdisc, HD-DVD etc). Why wouldn't the same be true for e-books? You're not looking at it from a long enough perspective.
You clearly don't understand some fundamentals of how computers work. That's fine, I understand how you can get that idea. Let me tell you though, so long as we have computers that have anything to do with text, we will have the encoded text format. It's just not a format that will go out of style. It _can't_ even go out of style if we wanted it to. It's too atomic to everything we do on computers, and it's too universally used at too low of a level to ever stop existing. Arguing that encoded text will be a "failed format" is just wrong, I'm sorry.

Quote:
You can't make a million copies in a day of a file sitting around on someone's old piece of shit computer, assuming the computer even works after sitting in an attic for however long.
That's the point of distributed, do you not get that? There are thousands of copies in the hands of thousands of people. Only one needs to make it accessible for everyone in the world to have access to it.

Quote:
Yeah you can store a lot of stuff on a hard drive, though if that drive breaks you're fucked. Also, with technology ever progressing, who's to say that one day there's not some war and someone develops a virus that gets out of control and spreads over every networked computer and wipes everything? Or even just good old-fashioned EMP from nuclear war. It's not completely far-fetched, is it? In your future with no hard copies of anything we'd be completely screwed.
Firstly, where did I propose a "future with no hard copies of anything"? Secondly, I've already explained how a distributed system solves the issue of media failure. And thirdly, if we have nuclear war/EMP/whatever unlikely event then we're going to have a lot bigger issues than an absence of hard copy literature.

Quote:
Also what is with the shitty "dead tree" insults? You sound like someone from 1995 talking about "snail mail". Give it a rest.
I don't mean it as an insult, I just think it's kinda catchy and clearly shows I'm talking about paper/ink books.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caramello Koala View Post
Fair enough, that is true to an extent, but even on a subconscious level those authors want to receive monetary recognition for the time and effort of their work, and they want to see sales, as sales show them how much of an audience is reading their work. I'm not against piracy, I would be a hypocrite if I said I was as I download music and movies all the time, but books don't cost much, and writers make squat, I think it's only fair to at least support them?
Right, and I think as we see more prevalent piracy we'll see a more direct donation-to-artists feedback system like we see emerging with music. More so, IMO, since bibliophiles have even bigger hardons for their favorite authors than audiophiles
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 03-14-2012, 04:27 AM
Akagi's Avatar
Akagi Akagi is offline
Baron
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Thanks: 106
Thanked 295 Times in 193 Posts
Default Re: Kindle vs Classic book

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Pat-Man View Post
i cant afford to spend 70 bucks on some thing thatll let me read shit when theres a goddamn entire library for free.
You'll burn more than that in gas going back and forth from the library if you drive whereas you can bootleg books for free. You don't even need a book reader to do it, just a PC.
__________________
Totse Username: Dark_Magneto
Join Date: 2000-10-20
Total Posts: 8,203
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 03-14-2012, 04:54 AM
Caramello Koala's Avatar
Caramello Koala Caramello Koala is offline
Knight
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: a witty saying proves nothing
Thanks: 248
Thanked 145 Times in 101 Posts
Default Re: Kindle vs Classic book

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanny View Post

Right, and I think as we see more prevalent piracy we'll see a more direct donation-to-artists feedback system like we see emerging with music. More so, IMO, since bibliophiles have even bigger hardons for their favorite authors than audiophiles
You make a good point! And I guess, with the rise of electronic books, paper books will be harder to come by and therefore become more collectible for book lovers; if that happens then they will be worth more and authors might make more revenue from those sales. I guess at the end of the day, e-books are actually doing a hell of a lot for authors in terms of sales as it's getting more people reading, and due to ease of download, they are buying more books now than at any time in history. Piracy is unavoidable, but it's existed with books way before the Kindle; in Vietnam they sell counterfeit books which look like they've been printed on someones home computer! I've scanned a couple pics of one these books I bought, for 10,000 Dong (50 cents)!

http://imageshack.us/f/213/ontheroadcounterfeit1.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/f/545/ontheroadcounterfeit2.jpg/
__________________
endofthegame.net
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 03-14-2012, 05:06 AM
Lanny Lanny is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Tarth
Thanks: 1,377
Thanked 1,868 Times in 1,338 Posts
Default Re: Kindle vs Classic book

^Lol, I've never seen that before.
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 03-14-2012, 05:14 AM
Michael Scott's Avatar
Michael Scott Michael Scott is offline
Regional Manager
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: NYC
Thanks: 657
Thanked 1,017 Times in 663 Posts
Default Re: Kindle vs Classic book

I just got a kindle and I like it because I have book ADD and I like hopping from one book to another and kindle makes that easier.
__________________
I crush more pussy than a steamroller rollin through a pet store, nigga
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 03-14-2012, 08:23 AM
Shrike's Avatar
Shrike Shrike is offline
Slightly Grander Duke
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Let's get scratchin'
Thanks: 449
Thanked 916 Times in 630 Posts
Default Re: Kindle vs Classic book

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanny View Post
. If you _really_ want typsetting X, you can go ahead and turn the levers or knobs you need to get that on your digital display. We can already handle illustrations fine. What's more is the digital format is far better suited to augmented media. You can put as many pictures in your ebook as you want, it doesn't increase the cost of distribution at all. That's not true of paper books.
Publishers/editors make stylistic choices for a reason. You can blurf all you want, but the format something is presented in does make a difference. Reading a book in physical form, in it's original binding is a different experience to reading it on a screen. Just like how playing a game on it's original console and controller is different to playing it on an emulator.

Quote:
You clearly don't understand some fundamentals of how computers work. That's fine, I understand how you can get that idea. Let me tell you though, so long as we have computers that have anything to do with text, we will have the encoded text format. It's just not a format that will go out of style. It _can't_ even go out of style if we wanted it to. It's too atomic to everything we do on computers, and it's too universally used at too low of a level to ever stop existing. Arguing that encoded text will be a "failed format" is just wrong, I'm sorry.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compari...e-book_formats

Hepderp i'm Lanny and I think proprietary formats are plaintext

Reply With Quote
The following users say "It is so good to hear it!":
Ph0x (09-21-2012)
  #55  
Old 03-14-2012, 08:39 AM
Shrike's Avatar
Shrike Shrike is offline
Slightly Grander Duke
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Let's get scratchin'
Thanks: 449
Thanked 916 Times in 630 Posts
Default Re: Kindle vs Classic book

In fact, just read this damn article and notice how the 'Disadvantages' section is like three times longer than the 'Advantages' section.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-book
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 03-14-2012, 04:49 PM
broseph's Avatar
broseph broseph is offline
Marquis
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: england
Thanks: 337
Thanked 315 Times in 249 Posts
Default Re: Kindle vs Classic book

that's a lot of hot air about a problem you'll probably never live to see.

reminds me of how they thought television would kill off radio, which turned out to be bullshit since radio has its own demographic and purpose.

academic texts, for instance. i think that most people find it easier to learn from a physical paper copy than a screen, and will continue to.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Caramello Koala
In my opinion that's the worst part about the Kindle; it means that authors, who already get paid jack shit for their work, will potentially earn even less, and therefore have less incentive to write more great books. Talk about a lose/lose situation.
tell that to the thousands of writers who are making a name for themselves by being able to distribute their titles through these new avenues. this new industry is still in its infancy, so who knows how big internet/electronic publication could be in 20 years.

do you think that most people would be against anti-piracy measures being put into force for writing? i'm of the opinion that government-led copyright enforcement for books and literature would be supported on the whole. it's not like these guys can appear on television or go on tour to roll in the bucks, like a musician, right? the market will have to be controlled, and the consumers will allow it.

that's the future from what i can see, anyway.
__________________
there may be diamonds in that hill in my dream,
but the people who live there still complain...

Last edited by broseph; 03-14-2012 at 05:02 PM.
Reply With Quote
The following users say "It is so good to hear it!":
Caramello Koala (03-15-2012)
  #57  
Old 03-14-2012, 04:50 PM
benny vader's Avatar
benny vader benny vader is offline
Count
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Męth Island
Thanks: 115
Thanked 478 Times in 340 Posts
Default Re: Kindle vs Classic book

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caramello Koala View Post
In my opinion that's the worst part about the Kindle; it means that authors, who already get paid jack shit for their work, will potentially earn even less, and therefore have less incentive to write more great books. Talk about a lose/lose situation.
Hey .... it was them who said they *LOVED* to write remember ?????

Its not like we put them at gun point point to type out some books for us. &T would've never come to being if all the contributors charged.

A true writer is just like a Templar knight, he will write to the very end despite his proverty, becos he loves to write, and any writter who wants to make big money out of what they wrote are justr whores. Literary prostitutes.

Book whores.
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 03-14-2012, 04:54 PM
benny vader's Avatar
benny vader benny vader is offline
Count
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Męth Island
Thanks: 115
Thanked 478 Times in 340 Posts
Default Re: Kindle vs Classic book

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrike View Post
You should probably read the article I quoted and linked, it's good. A book is as timeless a format as we've currently got, seeing as you can still read books from hundreds, even thousands of years ago. And things are not just about content, format is very important too. Context to the content, if you like.

Digital formats die out pretty quickly you know. And then if you want to read an old file in a dead format, you either have to port it to the new one, or emulate it etc, which isn't always possible.

As for your 'more widely distributed' point, yes that may be increasingly the case with greater internet adoption, but it's certainly not infallible. Websites get shut down all the time, hard drives get corrupted, data lost. I'm glad at least you didn't try and invoke "the cloud", which is a completely bullshit term meaning essentially "stuff stored on other people's hard drives accessed over the internet." Yeah a company like Google or whoever is storing this data is unlikely to go offline within 5 or 10 years, but after that- who can say? How many companies that are players today were around a century ago? Not many.

Your last point is bullshit though. I have a book in my hands from 1911 and it's a massmarket printing of some Dickens stories, still perfectly readable if a bit musty. And how can you be sure that that's "poorer than digital text". We haven't had digital text for that long! We don't even know how long the rewritable ink lasts in CD-RWs for god's sake because they haven't been around long enough for us to find out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanny View Post
I saw a video of Paul Graham talking about this, and he made a really good point. Basically he said that good books have almost always been written for their own sake, and poor ones for money. Obviously there are exceptions, but this tends to be the rule. Most artists don't collect significant dividends on their writings in their lifetimes anyway. I don't really see literature piracy as anything other than getting more knowledge to more people.



And what "context" does a mashed up tree add to literature?



That's why we distribute in plain text, UTF-8, god of all formats .



Yeah, but there are usenet files from aaaages ago that are still floating around the web. You're right, digital media fails more often than hard media, generally. However, you can make an arbitrary number of clones of digital media. Fast too. I have no fear of digital copies of books ever disappearing.

[quoteYour last point is bullshit though. I have a book in my hands from 1911 and it's a massmarket printing of some Dickens stories, still perfectly readable if a bit musty. And how can you be sure that that's "poorer than digital text". We haven't had digital text for that long! We don't even know how long the rewritable ink lasts in CD-RWs for god's sake because they haven't been around long enough for us to find out.
Again, individual copies don't have to last a long time. As long as we have one, somewhere in the world, we can make a million copies in a day. A lot better than you can say for any dead tree out there. It also doesn't take massive warehouses to store digital literature. I could store the written works of man in a harddrive you could carry in your pocket.[/quote]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrike View Post
Design of the book, the typesetting, the feel of it, any illustrations etc. Margin notes left by previous readers etc.



Why not though? Home movie buffs have had to re-buy their collections several times as technology updated, from VHS to DVD to Blu-Ray (and that's not even counting the several failed formats they might have bought into like Betamax, Laserdisc, HD-DVD etc). Why wouldn't the same be true for e-books? You're not looking at it from a long enough perspective.



You can't make a million copies in a day of a file sitting around on someone's old piece of shit computer, assuming the computer even works after sitting in an attic for however long.
Yeah you can store a lot of stuff on a hard drive, though if that drive breaks you're fucked. Also, with technology ever progressing, who's to say that one day there's not some war and someone develops a virus that gets out of control and spreads over every networked computer and wipes everything? Or even just good old-fashioned EMP from nuclear war. It's not completely far-fetched, is it? In your future with no hard copies of anything we'd be completely screwed.

Also what is with the shitty "dead tree" insults? You sound like someone from 1995 talking about "snail mail". Give it a rest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caramello Koala View Post
Fair enough, that is true to an extent, but even on a subconscious level those authors want to receive monetary recognition for the time and effort of their work, and they want to see sales, as sales show them how much of an audience is reading their work. I'm not against piracy, I would be a hypocrite if I said I was as I download music and movies all the time, but books don't cost much, and writers make squat, I think it's only fair to at least support them?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanny View Post
. If you _really_ want typsetting X, you can go ahead and turn the levers or knobs you need to get that on your digital display. We can already handle illustrations fine. What's more is the digital format is far better suited to augmented media. You can put as many pictures in your ebook as you want, it doesn't increase the cost of distribution at all. That's not true of paper books.



You clearly don't understand some fundamentals of how computers work. That's fine, I understand how you can get that idea. Let me tell you though, so long as we have computers that have anything to do with text, we will have the encoded text format. It's just not a format that will go out of style. It _can't_ even go out of style if we wanted it to. It's too atomic to everything we do on computers, and it's too universally used at too low of a level to ever stop existing. Arguing that encoded text will be a "failed format" is just wrong, I'm sorry.



That's the point of distributed, do you not get that? There are thousands of copies in the hands of thousands of people. Only one needs to make it accessible for everyone in the world to have access to it.



Firstly, where did I propose a "future with no hard copies of anything"? Secondly, I've already explained how a distributed system solves the issue of media failure. And thirdly, if we have nuclear war/EMP/whatever unlikely event then we're going to have a lot bigger issues than an absence of hard copy literature.



I don't mean it as an insult, I just think it's kinda catchy and clearly shows I'm talking about paper/ink books.



Right, and I think as we see more prevalent piracy we'll see a more direct donation-to-artists feedback system like we see emerging with music. More so, IMO, since bibliophiles have even bigger hardons for their favorite authors than audiophiles
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caramello Koala View Post
You make a good point! And I guess, with the rise of electronic books, paper books will be harder to come by and therefore become more collectible for book lovers; if that happens then they will be worth more and authors might make more revenue from those sales. I guess at the end of the day, e-books are actually doing a hell of a lot for authors in terms of sales as it's getting more people reading, and due to ease of download, they are buying more books now than at any time in history. Piracy is unavoidable, but it's existed with books way before the Kindle; in Vietnam they sell counterfeit books which look like they've been printed on someones home computer! I've scanned a couple pics of one these books I bought, for 10,000 Dong (50 cents)!

http://imageshack.us/f/213/ontheroadcounterfeit1.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/f/545/ontheroadcounterfeit2.jpg/
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanny View Post
^Lol, I've never seen that before.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrike View Post
Publishers/editors make stylistic choices for a reason. You can blurf all you want, but the format something is presented in does make a difference. Reading a book in physical form, in it's original binding is a different experience to reading it on a screen. Just like how playing a game on it's original console and controller is different to playing it on an emulator.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compari...e-book_formats

Hepderp i'm Lanny and I think proprietary formats are plaintext

whoaa !!!!!!111!! I was alf uei thru this thread when the phaggottries got so heavy ...


that my modem dropped the packet.
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 03-14-2012, 05:25 PM
Lanny Lanny is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Tarth
Thanks: 1,377
Thanked 1,868 Times in 1,338 Posts
Default Re: Kindle vs Classic book

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrike View Post
Publishers/editors make stylistic choices for a reason. You can blurf all you want, but the format something is presented in does make a difference. Reading a book in physical form, in it's original binding is a different experience to reading it on a screen. Just like how playing a game on it's original console and controller is different to playing it on an emulator.
Lol, whatever dude. If you're that butthurt about georgia over times or whatever particular typesetting hardon you have, go ahead and keep overpaying for books that take up way too much space.

Quote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compari...e-book_formats

Hepderp i'm Lanny and I think proprietary formats are plaintext

Herpderp, I'm Shrike and I think that Lanny was talking about commercially distributed ebooks.

Since you're clearly ignorant about this, let me explain. The "ebook industry" does have DRM'd books for sale, and these are in proprietary formats, yes. However pirated ebooks are almost always in encoded text or HTML (or a derivative thereof) and therefore are easily convertible, distributable, and persistently readable across time. Also, I can convert from just about any of those formats to plain text pretty darn easily and using OCR and some time, I can convert from literally any of them.
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 03-14-2012, 06:30 PM
Shrike's Avatar
Shrike Shrike is offline
Slightly Grander Duke
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Let's get scratchin'
Thanks: 449
Thanked 916 Times in 630 Posts
Default Re: Kindle vs Classic book

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanny View Post
Lol, whatever dude. If you're that butthurt about georgia over times or whatever particular typesetting hardon you have, go ahead and keep overpaying for books that take up way too much space.
You clearly have no idea what i'm talking about, you still think i'm talking just about the font or something. Overpaying for books? I dunno, the books I buy are pretty cheap being that I rarely buy hardbacks. Space is a minor consideration, but you know I like having a bookcase to look at and make my living room look more lived in.

Quote:
Herpderp, I'm Shrike and I think that Lanny was talking about commercially distributed ebooks.

Since you're clearly ignorant about this, let me explain. The "ebook industry" does have DRM'd books for sale, and these are in proprietary formats, yes. However pirated ebooks are almost always in encoded text or HTML (or a derivative thereof) and therefore are easily convertible, distributable, and persistently readable across time. Also, I can convert from just about any of those formats to plain text pretty darn easily and using OCR and some time, I can convert from literally any of them.
Yes, that's generally what a person thinks of when you talk about e-books. Being that the thread is actually titled Kindle vs classic books. But oh now apparently you're talking about pirating them off torrents and reading them on your monitor, or tablet or whatever the fuck.

Just go away you horrible retarded child.
Reply With Quote
  #61  
Old 03-14-2012, 06:45 PM
broseph's Avatar
broseph broseph is offline
Marquis
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: england
Thanks: 337
Thanked 315 Times in 249 Posts
Default Re: Kindle vs Classic book



your opinion on the internet angers me!
__________________
there may be diamonds in that hill in my dream,
but the people who live there still complain...
Reply With Quote
The following users say "It is so good to hear it!":
Caramello Koala (03-15-2012)
  #62  
Old 03-14-2012, 06:52 PM
ArmsMerchant ArmsMerchant is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Alaska
Thanks: 2,722
Thanked 2,885 Times in 1,760 Posts
Default Re: Kindle vs Classic book

You could not pay me enough to own an electronic book. (Okay, this is hyperbole, but still. . . .) One would probably last about twenty minutes at my place--I can see the cats playing with it.
__________________
Condemn and you are made a prisoner. Forgive and you are freed. -- ACIM
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 03-15-2012, 12:57 AM
Lanny Lanny is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Tarth
Thanks: 1,377
Thanked 1,868 Times in 1,338 Posts
Default Re: Kindle vs Classic book

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrike View Post
You clearly have no idea what i'm talking about, you still think i'm talking just about the font or something. Overpaying for books? I dunno, the books I buy are pretty cheap being that I rarely buy hardbacks. Space is a minor consideration, but you know I like having a bookcase to look at and make my living room look more lived in.
I pay nothing for my books aside from what I choose to donate to writers. When it's that easy, I call everything else overpaying. And if space is no consideration, that's great mr. moneybags, but some of us don't have room for giant stacks of books. Also, books as a fashion statement (and yes, "makes it look lived in" is a fashion statement) are dumb.

Quote:
Yes, that's generally what a person thinks of when you talk about e-books. Being that the thread is actually titled Kindle vs classic books. But oh now apparently you're talking about pirating them off torrents and reading them on your monitor, or tablet or whatever the fuck.

Just go away you horrible retarded child.
The kindle displays plain text. /your retarded point
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 03-15-2012, 01:47 AM
Shrike's Avatar
Shrike Shrike is offline
Slightly Grander Duke
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Let's get scratchin'
Thanks: 449
Thanked 916 Times in 630 Posts
Default Re: Kindle vs Classic book

Writers don't get book deals from donations, they get it from sales figures.

Giant stacks of books? It's called a bookcase, dipshit. You can make one yourself or buy one from Ikea.

Having a bookcase with books in is not a fashion statement, that's fucking ridiculous. It's a thing people put in their houses, to fill an alcove or whatever and store books in. Next you'll be telling me sofas or a coffee table are a fashion statement. No, dipshit, that's where you sit and put stuff while you're sitting.

The Kindle may display plain text, but most people buying a Kindle will buy their books from the Amazon digital store. I mean that's not even in doubt. I seriously hate people like you who in online arguments find some tiny, irrelevant facet that you left out because you didn't feel the need to point out every possible permutation, and then act like they've won some big point over you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrike View Post
Just go away you horrible retarded child.

Last edited by Shrike; 03-15-2012 at 01:51 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 03-15-2012, 02:42 AM
Caramello Koala's Avatar
Caramello Koala Caramello Koala is offline
Knight
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: a witty saying proves nothing
Thanks: 248
Thanked 145 Times in 101 Posts
Default Re: Kindle vs Classic book

Quote:
Originally Posted by benny vader View Post
Hey .... it was them who said they *LOVED* to write remember ?????

Its not like we put them at gun point point to type out some books for us. &T would've never come to being if all the contributors charged.

A true writer is just like a Templar knight, he will write to the very end despite his proverty, becos he loves to write, and any writter who wants to make big money out of what they wrote are justr whores. Literary prostitutes.

Book whores.
So you're saying writing is pretty much the only profession where you're expected to work for the love of it and for not money. You're not a writer, how would you know? They say the same thing about musicians - that it's all about the music, and not the money - but guess what, it's about the money for the majority of musicians! I agree with you though, don't get me wrong; no profession should be about the money, a career should be something that you enjoy doing, cos you don't want to spend the rest of your life working a shit job you don't like, just to support your existence so you can continue to wake up and go to work. But, eventually, you should get payed appropriately for the amount of work you do, otherwise writers will never get to quit their day job, and they won't be able to dedicate their whole life to their passion...
__________________
endofthegame.net
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 03-15-2012, 03:13 AM
Lanny Lanny is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Tarth
Thanks: 1,377
Thanked 1,868 Times in 1,338 Posts
Default Re: Kindle vs Classic book

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrike View Post
Writers don't get book deals from donations, they get it from sales figures.
If we moved to a purely piracy based system, writers wouldn't have to worry about getting book deals.

Quote:
Giant stacks of books? It's called a bookcase, dipshit. You can make one yourself or buy one from Ikea.
Some of us live in apartments, some of us don't have room for a book case. Eat a dick.

Quote:
Having a bookcase with books in is not a fashion statement, that's fucking ridiculous. It's a thing people put in their houses, to fill an alcove or whatever and store books in. Next you'll be telling me sofas or a coffee table are a fashion statement. No, dipshit, that's where you sit and put stuff while you're sitting.
I agree, a book case is for putting books in. But saying "I like the look of a bookcase" is not a cogent argument for paper/ink books. Book cases have become obsolete.

[quote]The Kindle may display plain text, but most people buying a Kindle will buy their books from the Amazon digital store. I mean that's not even in doubt.[quote]

What format people choose to read their books in has exactly zero relevance to what we're talking about. As long as plain text has some modicum of popularity among kindle users, all the benefits of a distributed book storage system still exist. And hell, even if the only ebook format that existed was whatever amazon decided to use, it would still be a better mass market format than paper and ink, for all the reasons I've outlined.

Quote:
I seriously hate people like you who in online arguments find some tiny, irrelevant facet that you left out because you didn't feel the need to point out every possible permutation, and then act like they've won some big point over you.
Lol, says the guy who's damning the kindle despite the fact that it's better than dead tree books in nearly every way and has to nitpick over format nuances to justify his irrational ideas.
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 03-15-2012, 04:57 AM
Caramello Koala's Avatar
Caramello Koala Caramello Koala is offline
Knight
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: a witty saying proves nothing
Thanks: 248
Thanked 145 Times in 101 Posts
Default Re: Kindle vs Classic book

Guys, come on. You both have strong preferences for different things, and nothings going to change that! On one hand, ebooks are convenient for those who want to have easy access to their book collection, but don't see the point/don't have the room to store them in a shelf, and on the other hand, paperbacks are nice for the person who enjoys owning and displaying their books physically, because they have the room to accommodate them, and they find it opens up their room - much like, say, a painting on a wall might. It doesn't matter how we read our books right? As long as we actually read and enjoy them, and don't buy them just to fill up a shelf for aesthetic reasons, or download them simply to fill up a hard drive.
__________________
endofthegame.net
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 04-27-2012, 06:19 AM
Captain Politik Captain Politik is offline
Baron
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Thanks: 362
Thanked 130 Times in 84 Posts
Default Re: Kindle vs Classic book

Ok let me try to get a few things set straight


People think authors will get fucked with Ebooks are wrong on so many levels. First of all and the most obvious benefit is the profit margin on a Ebooks is probabliy fucking 90% or even higher. Secondly with amazon introducing self publishing where you don't gotta get fucked by penguin publisher or any of the top dogs eventually authors will simply upload there own books or pay a small fee for a company to do it for them.


Now anyone saying iPad comes close to kindle n terms of reading experience is dead wrong. I am a pretty Big apple fanboys and I can tell you after reading about Tweny books on my kindle the iPad or any non eink Device is worthless to read big long books.


Also I can't touch myself while reading a hard copy which automatically makes kindle e choce for me
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 04-27-2012, 12:18 PM
Euda Euda is offline
Confusationalist
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Canada
Thanks: 421
Thanked 627 Times in 485 Posts
Default Re: Kindle vs Classic book

So far, I've lost two Kindles and broken one, but I've never lost or broken a book.

I prefer books.
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 04-27-2012, 12:59 PM
The"Her0-in"me The"Her0-in"me is offline
Serf
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Thanks: 14
Thanked 15 Times in 13 Posts
Default Re: Kindle vs Classic book

So many people take this shit so seriouslyzs.... Lol; I really hopes they realize to release the book of zoklet! So I can have myyy plain text booox and my kind ell esqe sportin zok 4lyfe nukka$!

Omgroflbbqwtfcoptor!!!1!1!1!11!!!
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 09-21-2012, 05:47 AM
Shrike's Avatar
Shrike Shrike is offline
Slightly Grander Duke
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Let's get scratchin'
Thanks: 449
Thanked 916 Times in 630 Posts
Grin Re: Kindle vs Classic book

My dad bought me a Kindle Touch for my birthday.

It's actually kind of cool, though i'm still getting used to reading on it and holding a cold piece of metal instead of a book. I bought The Eye of the World for a fiver on it to re-read, since all my old fantasy books are boxed up at my mum's.
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 09-21-2012, 06:06 AM
The Pat-Man's Avatar
The Pat-Man The Pat-Man is offline
Grander Duke
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Thanks: 2,596
Thanked 2,897 Times in 2,016 Posts
Default Re: Kindle vs Classic book

lanny is so weird.
__________________
everything i post is fantasy
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 09-21-2012, 06:53 AM
Toroid Toroid is offline
Mud Farmer
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default Re: Kindle vs Classic book

Remember when they deleted 1984 off of peoples kindles without asking them?
I do.

I'll stick to paper back.
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 09-21-2012, 07:50 AM
Mor3BL7's Avatar
Mor3BL7 Mor3BL7 is offline
Duke
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Southern Ontario
Thanks: 664
Thanked 896 Times in 539 Posts
Default Re: Kindle vs Classic book

Why not just read a book like a normal human.... oh wait... hipster.
__________________
Grammy Award Winning Gynecologist.
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 09-21-2012, 08:45 AM
Area 11 Area 11 is offline
Peasant
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Thanks: 24
Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Default Re: Kindle vs Classic book

Nook > Kindle, but also, Book > Nook

I like the real thing.
Reply With Quote
  #76  
Old 09-21-2012, 09:26 AM
Proots's Avatar
Proots Proots is offline
PROOTS
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Thanks: 1,215
Thanked 2,251 Times in 1,527 Posts
Default Re: Kindle vs Classic book

I prefer the real thing, too. That said, my brother bought me a Kindle Fire and I do enjoy it. It's nice being able to cart around dozens of books all in one small setting.

Books are awesome, though. They're a medium that can't be beat.
__________________
PROOTS
Reply With Quote
  #77  
Old 09-21-2012, 04:53 PM
benny vader's Avatar
benny vader benny vader is offline
Count
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Męth Island
Thanks: 115
Thanked 478 Times in 340 Posts
Default Re: Kindle vs Classic book

mY GOTT YOU FAGGARDS ..... books and kindles, as Adolf Hitler *sig heil* had so succinctly laid itt ....

are just means to an end.

But what are the ends ???? my faggard ????

Your ends, what are they ?????? Kindle or hard copies, it doesnt really matter, really as long as they lead you to your end. So what are your ends ..... people ??????
__________________
This is Benny Vader, I AM YOUR GOTT DAMN JOHN CONNOR

if your reading this shit .... then your the resistance ...
Reply With Quote
  #78  
Old 09-21-2012, 05:11 PM
SIdt SIdt is offline
Wealthy Merchant
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Thanks: 46
Thanked 34 Times in 27 Posts
Confused Re: Kindle vs Classic book

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caramello Koala View Post
I like to proudly show off my books, books are a very personal thing and they reflect one's character and history, they also add a certain vibe to any room. Seeing books on my shelf inspires me to read, and I doubt a kindle would have the same effect.

Here's a pic of one of my bookshelves.

You are proud of being a social (I can't even bear to append scientist to that word)?
Reply With Quote
  #79  
Old 09-21-2012, 07:34 PM
Lanny Lanny is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Tarth
Thanks: 1,377
Thanked 1,868 Times in 1,338 Posts
Default Re: Kindle vs Classic book

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Pat-Man View Post
lanny is so weird.
Am not
Reply With Quote
  #80  
Old 09-21-2012, 08:37 PM
DaSkipper DaSkipper is offline
Count
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: NOWHERE, FBI.
Thanks: 266
Thanked 327 Times in 239 Posts
Default Re: Kindle vs Classic book

I can't stand reading a novel, script, comic, etc on a computer or kindle. I need fucking paper.
__________________
Looking for a 1BTC Loan.

1NyNGFcCNpWLUQE8WwcPqbpfmjKL7jeUTU
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
book, classic, kindle

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Kindle Kanimi Book & Language Nook 27 02-13-2012 03:59 AM
so i got a kindle for xmas HelloClarice Book & Language Nook 15 12-26-2011 05:24 PM
Let's talk Kindle Yggdrasil Book & Language Nook 164 10-11-2011 04:56 PM
Gawd I want a kindle.... Tinted Glass Bat Country 26 12-21-2010 05:39 AM
Kindle Book Piracy Lanny Book & Language Nook 16 01-03-2010 04:02 AM


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:02 PM.


Hot Topics
Join our Chatroom!
Users: 8
Messages/minute: 0
Topic: "Only rule: be nice or I'll cut your fucking face off, dumbshit"
Users: 27
Messages/minute: 1.6
Topic: "http://codelove.org :: Below is above in 2 codes 1 love. :: wh..."
Users: 18
Messages/minute: 5
Topic: "http://www.literotica...."
Advertisements
Your ad could go right HERE! Contact us!

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.