BOB suggestions- Survival readiness

[General Butt.Naked]

This question mightve been better suited elsewhere, but I figured the W&C crew would probably share my mindset and have better ideas than others.

This question is also kind of broken into a few parts... (TL;DR below)

With the way things have been going in the world culturally, economically- as well as the general feeling I think most people have that something is wrong with the world and that some major catastrophe is just on the horizon- Ive decided to make a small effort to begin learning basic survival and outdoors skills and buy the hardware and equipment needed to be prepared in a variety of situations. Most recently I bought a few things to be the basis for my BOB...

ALPS Cascade 85 liter internal frame pack-carrying
$500 cash-trade, food/ item procurement, bribes
1/2 oz gold - same as above
1 quart 91% Isopropyl alcohol- fuel, firemaking, sanitation
1 prepaid phone w/ min- communication
Alcohol camping stove- food prep, heat
16x AA batteries-
12x AAA batteries
2x 9v batteries
6x rechargable AA batteries
4x rechargable AAA batteries
Steel wool
2 bandanas- 1 black, 1 red- tourniquet, signalling
200 tabs multivitamin/ antioxidant- health, well being
Ben's 100% Deet bug repellent
50-pack mil=spec chemical lights (glowsticks)- signalling, light
2x 30 pack Katadyn water purification tablets
LifeStraw water purifier
Hammock/ fishing net- shelter/ water procurement
Thomas Guide/ mini road atlas- navigation
15x 40 gallon heavy-duty trash bags- shelter, storage, waterproofing, water holding
hand sanitizer
Esbit stove with 12 fuel cubes- heat, food prep
30 vaseline-dipped cotton balls- firemaking
20 yards sterile gauze- medical
SPF 40 sunblock
1 Leatherman Wave with 40-piece bit set-tools
2 Black Diamond climbing carabiners- suspension, shelter, climbing
Light My Fire Swedish Firesteel Army- firemaking
Magnesium/ Flint block-firemaking
Goal Zero -Escape 150 Solar Panel and Battery Pack/ inverter- light, power
"SAS guide to Tracking"
3x 9-hour lantern candles- light, firemaking, kindling
duct tape- shelter making, medical, repair
"Edible and Medicinal Plants of the West"
"Identifying and Harvesting Edible and Medicinal Plants..."
"Forager's Harvest- Guide to Identifying and Harvesting Edible Wild Plants"
2x Bic lighters-firemaking
30x waterproof matches-firemaking
Smith's Pocket Pal Multifunction Sharpener
SOG Seal Pup Elite, Black TiNi w/ Nylon Sheath
Silva Polaris compass-navigation
1 ESEE knives IZULA-II w/ Kydex sheath
Fenix E11 LED flashlight
2x Clear Vinyl ponchos
2x 32 oz. Wide-mouth Nalgene Canteen
Olicamp 32 oz. Space Saver cup- food prep, water sanitation
500 ft mil-spec 550 paracord olive drab- shelter, toolmaking
5 packs Quik-Clot- medical

Im sure there are some other things I got that Im not remembering.

I didnt realize what size the SOG Seal Pup would be in my hand until I actually got it, so Im not shopping for a larger knife for batoning and watnot. I cant really find any fault or negative review with the KA-BARs but they just look kind of flimsy when it comes to prying and stuff. The ESEE-5 and above and the Junglas look good too, but although I dont know a whole lot about knives from what I understand, 1095 is a high carbon steel- which gives it a good edge, but can also make it brittle under stress. So any suggestions for a knife around 7 inches? I was also wondering wether I should try to get a machete or axe/hatchet? It seems a machete would be useful, but the thin weighted blade is better used for vines and slashing as a backup weapon. In my area of the southwest, Id probably have more use for a small axe to take down and process smaller trees for building or firewood. A machete couldnt do that same task, and trying to baton that with a smaller knife would be a pain in the ass.

Then, the good stuff- firearms. I have an XD-9, which is a good utility gun. However in a TEOTWAWKI sitch, id want a sidearm that packs a little more punch. Im not wild about .40,, but I wouldnt mind a .45. Ive been looking at the RIAs, and havent been able to find much fault with them. The Springfield 1911s are a bit pricier but Im liking them too. Here comes a tie-in...

Ive been contemplating getting into reloading- which could be a valuable skill when the SHTF. I dont need or want a multi-thousand dollar kit. I was looking the basic Lee Reloading kit at around $100 USD. It seems to have positive reviews across the board. But then again I dont have a bench to use with the bench press, and likely wouldnt when Im out on the move, so I was thinking the LEE hand-press might be more appropriate. Ideas? Whats a good book that breaks down reloading basics for a beginner?

With reloads, Im told revolvers and bolt-actions are a lot more forgiving than semis. So a sidearm or backup sidearm could also include a small-barrel revolver in a relatively easily reloadable cartridge.

Im also going to need some sort of long gun for hunting/ perimeter defense. Again, it looks like bolt action is the way to go for simplicity, ease of use, etc. Outfitting a group of 10 with SKSs wouldve been perfect a few years ago when they were dirt cheap, but thats not as practical now. For MY rifle, Im looking at the Savage AXIS in .308 ( common caliber, good punch) or the Tikka T3. Im also looking at some Mosins as extra weapons to outfit my family and friends with but the ammo would be a lot harder to find here in the US where .223 and .308/ 7.62 rule. So what do yall think? Is .308 the best caliber for a situation like this? Is a bolt gun a better bet than an AR-10 or -15, considering the possible need to use reloads?

There are a lot of different ways one could go with this. Both a shotgun or .22 would be just as useful for food procurement. The shotgun would also be good for defense, but cant reach out like a .308. The .22 isnt as good at defense, but its light, cheap, and the ammo is cheap, quiet and plentiful. If you choose .22, do you get a rifle, or would a pistol be sufficient? I realize i am probably going to need to have different weapons for different tools, but In the interest of NOT carrying around 350lb of equipment, I need to figure out what weapons can take care of as many of those tasks as possible.

TL;DR

1. Besides the obv. clothing/ toiletries, what would you add to the kit? (Southern California, desert/beach climate)

2. Whats a good larger LED flashlight that wont drain my wallet?

3. Comprehensive survival first-aid kit?

4. Good sidearm(s)? Revolver?

5. Good reloading kit for beginner/ manual?

6. Best survival weapon combos/ calibers? Bolt or AR? .22 pistol or rifle? Shotgun?

7. Good, STURDY knife around- greater than 7 inches? Machete or hatchet? Axe or tactical tomahawk?

8. Good rations/freeze-dried foods/ supplements for 2 people for a week or so?

9. Paracord and grommeted tarp or lightweight tent?

10. Items for comprehensive small fishing kit?

11. Should buy ready made snares, snare wire, or other trap type?

12. Good, relatively inexpensive binocular/ monocular?

Any help would be appreciated. I think its a good idea for everyone to get in this mindset every once and a while.

[&Zenith]

Relevant to my interests.

[Mantikore]

Ive beaten the shit out of 1095 knives before with no problem and are actually pretty tough. Although ive never tried it in super cold environments. But really most knvies around 7" and non-hollow ground these days are built for survival use and are sturdy enough. Even knives with fairly brittle steels like the ontario sp43 should do well. Just look for one made by a reputable knife company.

For blade options I reckon a saw/big knife or axe/small knife system should get most tasks done. Theres a bunch of different saws both folding or manual chainsaws.

For fire options, I like butane jet torches backed up with ferrocerium. Vaselined cotton balls work well, but also consider wax as well. I think they burn longer.

Consider packing an extra pair of socks or two as well

[5.56 SS109]

5. Lee Challenger Press and Lee dies. Use Ramshot TAC or Hodgdon Benchmark for powder and Hornady 55gr Softpoints for projectiles. Use whatever brass you can scavenge at the range.


6. AR15 Carbine in 5.56 with a CMMG .22 rimfire kit, so you have one gun with 2 uses. Or, use Hodgdon Titegroup to load low power .223 rounds if you don't want to spring for the .22 kit, with Hodgdon lists Titegroup loads that launch a 55gr Softpoint at 1100 feet per second.

Low noise and no recoil, but you have to cycle the AR15's charging handle each time.

[is all mememememe with me]

not saying you don't, but having the kit without having the know how to use it is pretty pointless. a lot of people buy up all the fancy kit then get out there and haven't the first clue to survive. then others can go out with nothing more than a good knife and survive brilliantly simply cause they know how to. so if you do have the knowledge then great. if not i'd say go out and practice some field craft. learn to fish and hunt/trap. learn how to find water, learn how to build shelter and make fire. and it's always best to learn how to do this without all the shiny baubles cause quite often that fancy stuff will soon get lost in the field. usually just when you need it most.

[is all mememememe with me]

btw, sounds like a seriously heavy bit of kit to carry about. wtf is with all those batteries? and all those books about identifying plants. you'll never use them. if you want to identify if a plant is edible or not then take a small sample and rub it into the inside of your arm. if its poisonous it will cause itching or rash. if it hasn't after a few hours then do the same on your lips and wait a few more hours. if no rash then try eating a small piece and see how you go after a few more hours. if you've had no problems then you should be pretty much good to go, but still be wary of eating too much at first. also be wary if it has a very nasty taste as that is usually a good indicator if poison.

[General Butt.Naked]

Originally Posted by Mantikore

Ive beaten the shit out of 1095 knives before with no problem and are actually pretty tough. Although ive never tried it in super cold environments. But really most knvies around 7" and non-hollow ground these days are built for survival use and are sturdy enough. Even knives with fairly brittle steels like the ontario sp43 should do well. Just look for one made by a reputable knife company.

For blade options I reckon a saw/big knife or axe/small knife system should get most tasks done. Theres a bunch of different saws both folding or manual chainsaws.

For fire options, I like butane jet torches backed up with ferrocerium. Vaselined cotton balls work well, but also consider wax as well. I think they burn longer.

Consider packing an extra pair of socks or two as well

Ok thats good to know. They just made it sound like 1095 was really high maintainence and easy to damage if you abuse it. In that case, the ESEE-6 might now be half bad. But then again, a KABAR would be like 1/5 the price. And I suppose the coldest Itd get anyplace where I might migrate to would likely be in the 30's...not anywhere cold enough to compromise good knife steel.

Originally Posted by 5.56 SS109

5. Lee Challenger Press and Lee dies. Use Ramshot TAC or Hodgdon Benchmark for powder and Hornady 55gr Softpoints for projectiles. Use whatever brass you can scavenge at the range.


6. AR15 Carbine in 5.56 with a CMMG .22 rimfire kit, so you have one gun with 2 uses. Or, use Hodgdon Titegroup to load low power .223 rounds if you don't want to spring for the .22 kit, with Hodgdon lists Titegroup loads that launch a 55gr Softpoint at 1100 feet per second.

Low noise and no recoil, but you have to cycle the AR15's charging handle each time.

So does the handpress work about the same and produce the same quality cartridges? You may not have used one yourself, but do you know about tem in general? I just dont have anyplace to mount a bench press. And what about a manual for someone beginning? And what do you think about what Ive read that reloads are not the best to use with semi-autos? Then again they might just mean maintainence wise- which could be made a moot point by cleaning and care.

So youd definitely favor the AR platform over a bolt? I was even looking at a bolt .223 for simplicity and ammo weight. I dont know how practical that is though. I suppose its worth mentioning that Im a fairly new shooter. I can field strip my handguns and reassemble them fine, but stripping them completely would probably result in an inoperable gun unless I had a step-by-step pictorial on how to reassemble it.

Also, being in California, an AR doesnt mean anywhere near what it would mean for someone in Arizona, Nebraska, Montana etc. We can only have 10 round magazines, and they require the mag-tool. Of course in a SHTF situation, laws would mean nothing- but in the meantime, owning it could be a problem. The extended mags and hardware might be an issue, but i suppose any shooter familair with the platform, or any military man would probably be able to mod it for full-auto without much trouble. Select fire wouldnt be possible on it then, would it?

Originally Posted by is all mememememe with me

not saying you don't, but having the kit without having the know how to use it is pretty pointless. a lot of people buy up all the fancy kit then get out there and haven't the first clue to survive. then others can go out with nothing more than a good knife and survive brilliantly simply cause they know how to. so if you do have the knowledge then great. if not i'd say go out and practice some field craft. learn to fish and hunt/trap. learn how to find water, learn how to build shelter and make fire. and it's always best to learn how to do this without all the shiny baubles cause quite often that fancy stuff will soon get lost in the field. usually just when you need it most.

Originally Posted by is all mememememe with me

btw, sounds like a seriously heavy bit of kit to carry about. wtf is with all those batteries? and all those books about identifying plants. you'll never use them. if you want to identify if a plant is edible or not then take a small sample and rub it into the inside of your arm. if its poisonous it will cause itching or rash. if it hasn't after a few hours then do the same on your lips and wait a few more hours. if no rash then try eating a small piece and see how you go after a few more hours. if you've had no problems then you should be pretty much good to go, but still be wary of eating too much at first. also be wary if it has a very nasty taste as that is usually a good indicator if poison.

I wouldnt call myself a master outdoorsman by any means, but Im vastly better equipped for a survival situation than the average person- but ive still got a lot to learn. I know where to find and how to purify water, how to watch and learn from animals, how to make fire, build shelter, etc. Ive been kind of a camping and survival enthusiast since I was a kid. Admittedly though, I havent got a lot of chances to put it to practice. But when I have, I faired well. I just think outside the box and find solutions to problems. For example, a friend and I went on a group camping trip. During the trip, we decided we'd dleave the group and go for a hike. We ended up quite a ways out, and found that we hadnt brought enough food and were still hungry. We could see fish among the rocks at the bottom of a fast moving stream, but we had nbo rod or bait and hooks,and they were too fast to spear fish. So, I took my knife and created 20-something pointed sticks, and then hammered them into the river bottom with a rock. I spaced them about an inch apart, and then left a space of about a foot in the middle of the "dotted line" of sticks. Behind the space in the sticks, I built a little holding tank out of rocks. My friend was convinced it wouldnt work, but when we headed back, lo and behold there were 3 good sized fish and some smaller ones. I just have a survival mindset when it comes to a lot of things.

And heavy? Not too bad. Of course I havent added a lot of things yet, but when I filled up my pack and woe it around, it wasnt horrible. The heaviest thing is the solar panel kit and inverter, but thats probably something that'd be carried by car. If it was just me personally, Id travel by bicycle to maintain gas independence, and give me more speed and carrying efficiency than walking. Im actually considering outfitting a comfortable bike with a carrying rack and such, and create an "In-the-Shit-mobile". It really is the most efficient form of transprtation in a situation like that. And I didnt think I had much "flashy" stuff. I was kind of going for the essentials. Thats why I got the books ( which i wouldnt be bringing with me probably...just to learn in the meantime). I figured instead of buying a .50 cal rifle to take down water buffalo, id probabaly be better served learning what plants to gather and eat...a much for efficient means of obtaining food, while burning minimal calories. And yeah, I know the 5 method test- its just easier to know whats okay, rather than eating a nibble of every leaf and grass in the forest, and then waiting 5 hours between each. The batteries were kind of an oversight. They are necessary, but after my solar panel - which also serves as a battery charger- I suppose they became redundant. They werent even that heavy though.

Flashlights are pretty much a necessity though, and electricity will likely be out. My flashlight provides 105 lumens with 1 AA battery (i chose it because of that), but i know how quickly those go. I figure in an urban environment- where Im likely to be stuck until I can evacuate the city- "survival" will involve using whats around me...which instead of leaves, sticks, water, wood, dirt, vines...will probably mean metal, bolts, screws, sheet metal,,, plastic, drywall, concrete. So im considering including a few tools to dissassemble and process things. For example- stoip signs and construction sign would make good lightweight armor to attatch over passenger car windows, or on the outside of shelter.

So what would you guys amend about my list- add, subtract, change?

Oh yeah- and then in addition to whatever first aid/ medical items and medications, I was gonna bring an oz of heroin and coke. 1) The prices would skyrocket, like everything else, after a disaster. Heroin could be used as a powerful painkiller, which is sure to be needed, and cocaine would be a valuable alertness aid, and could be used as a topical anesthetic.

Oh yeah- and you guys have any idea what a readily available, effective, bread spectrum antibiotic would be? I imagine something like that would also be really valuable/ helpful, both for trade, or for treating infections from water, or from cuts or gashes from falling debris, etc.

And I totally usemy books on edible plants. Theyre in my stack of "taking a shit books", along with gun magazines, video game stuff, and porn.

[is all mememememe with me]

ok cool. it's just surprising how many people think surviving in a wilderness environment means having the right kit(which often means carrying way too much anyway), then don't have the first clue how to put all that stuff into practice when they get there.

also wasn't sure about whether you intended to pack that stuff into a vehicle, but if society goes to pot then the fuel issue would soon make the vehicle nothing more than a glorified shelter. that's something that needs to be considered, as well as the fact that all electronics are going to fail eventually. especially with regular use.

[Spence_tron]

Originally Posted by is all mememememe with me

btw, sounds like a seriously heavy bit of kit to carry about.

Seriously. How much does the OP's pack weigh anyways?

I have a "SHTF" pack and weight is one of the major concerns. I have food/water (and water purification), fire starting equipment, plastic sheeting and emergency blankets for shelter building, first aid/trauma kit/antibiotics, a compass, battery-less flashlight, a few (good) knives, some cloths, paracord/fishing line/hooks, and many types of 5.56/12ga ammunition for various game or for self defense. I will add a good gas mask and potassium iodide pills to the kit too soon in case of the remote possibility of nuclear fallout/biological attack.

If I need to pick up my shit and flea to a "safe" location to "survive", I would have no problem carrying my gear as far as I would need to go. Battery powered stuff will do you no good in the long run (or at all if there's a crazy solar storm/EMP attack) so don't waste space and carry weight by assuming you will need it. I will be carrying what I will need to survive, and nothing else (minus some spices for obvious reasons).

Edit: I have aluminum pots/pans/cups in the pack too, obviously.

[General Butt.Naked]

Originally Posted by is all mememememe with me

ok cool. it's just surprising how many people think surviving in a wilderness environment means having the right kit(which often means carrying way too much anyway), then don't have the first clue how to put all that stuff into practice when they get there.

also wasn't sure about whether you intended to pack that stuff into a vehicle, but if society goes to pot then the fuel issue would soon make the vehicle nothing more than a glorified shelter. that's something that needs to be considered, as well as the fact that all electronics are going to fail eventually. especially with regular use.

Yeah I would end up probably being by myself, so Id probably steal a car and gas until i couldnt anymore, and then take my bike the rest of the way. A bike is more efficient and less detectable anyway. Yeah Im by no means an expert on anything, but I know how to use solar stills and all that jazz. Theres still always a to learn though, so I bought a good survival book. For those hardcore minimalists, all one should really need is the clothes on their back, a good knife, a container or vessel of some kind, and MAYBE a fire-starting implement. Its good to be able to do that, but if some of the "flashy" things can make life easier, or improve your chances for survival, why not do it? For example, you could easily boilf all your water to make it potable- no problem. But for 20 dollars plus shipping, I have LifeStraw- something that at less than 2 ounces, can filter 1000 liters of water. I dont need a fire or a metal container...you just have to stick the straw in the muddy puddle or lake and drink. If what we're all talking about finally does come to pass, its not going to be a camping trip. So the way I see it, whhatever you can afford to get that will make life easier, more bearable, or improve your chances or do something else more efficiently- then do it.

[Rodrat]

I really don't even know what half the stuff in your list is, but I would say you're carrying way too much stuff. Minimal is better, you don't need a lot of clutter on you weighing you down and most likely being noisy I would imagine.

I'd ditch the books, and carry two guns, a pistol and rifle of your choice (.308)?

maybe a carry a kukri type machete? they're good for chopping or a small axe.

[is all mememememe with me]

i suppose what you need to consider is how often and quickly are you likely to need to move. more kit will slow you down and in some situations you might find you'll need to move quicker than you can even pick it all up. might be at least worth looking at it and getting in mind what you consider to be the most important items in case that situation ever happens. least then you'll know what to grab first and what you really don't want to be leaving behind.

[General Butt.Naked]

Originally Posted by is all mememememe with me

i suppose what you need to consider is how often and quickly are you likely to need to move. more kit will slow you down and in some situations you might find you'll need to move quicker than you can even pick it all up. might be at least worth looking at it and getting in mind what you consider to be the most important items in case that situation ever happens. least then you'll know what to grab first and what you really don't want to be leaving behind.

Yeah the way I hae it broken down is that theres a smaller pack inside my main pack, and that carries the bare essentials- knife, 10 water purification tabs, 4 MREs, lighters and firesteel, poncho, compass, gun, etc.

I still dont really have any other suggestions from yall though.

Im thinking since I live along a coastline, a fishing kit wouldnt be a bad idea. Super lightweight- could fit in an tin of mints.

I think Im gonna order my KA-BAR on Amazon right quick. I like the seal pup, but the handle is just too slick. Maybe ghetto rig it with some electrical tape?

I guess youre right- I should start changing my mindset. Ive been working under the assumption that I would leave the city, and go someplace remote and set up shop. I figured with the solar and maybe a crank generator or small gas I could run lights, a computer, etc... i dont know how active it'd be then, but my friend has a satellite phone, and said you can connect to the internet off of it. So with a small netbook, I could be trolling you fagsand calling you limp-wristed weiner-worshippers long after youre all dust.

When I look at the list again, I dont think you guys understand how small most of those things are. The list looks long, but the majority of those things are miniscule, less than an oz. and can fit in the palm of your hand. The guns would take up the most weight, and of the things on the list besides the inverter- which would be carried separately obviously- the paracord is the heaviest. And even that will pobably be cut in half for the bag.

[is all mememememe with me]

you know in most shtf situations there wouldn't be any phone or internet networks running for long tho?

[Infrared]

Signal mirror!

Good light: Coleman makes an LED one that's cheap, sturdy, pretty bright, good on batteries and also has red and blue LEDs (to preserve your night vision and track blood respectively), look for it in a good outdoors store. Forgot the model name, sorry.

First aid: best to get a rugged watertight box and make your own. I won't list EVERY item to put in it, but be ready to treat:
Cuts/scrapes
Burns (sun or fire)
Broken bones (sturdy bandages, break-down splints)
Fish hook sticks (needlenose pliers or hemostats, small end nipper)
Hypothermia/shock (space blanket)
Pain (tylenol/ibuprofen/etc..my personal fave is BC powder)
Animal bites (sterile/antibio irrigation solution, it's out there. Also prayer, lol, for rabies prevention)
Minor shit like splinters, poison ivy, etc.
And maybe more...try to pack things that have a couple uses, like sutures: good for mending clothes, improv fishing line, mending you. Read up on how to properly suture wounds. Would teach you here, but takes too long. PM if needed) just one example.

Sidearm: Glock 20 10mm or any simple, sturdy .44 mag from Ruger, SW, etc. 4" bbl minimum.

Reloading: can't help there, sorry

Survival longarm: That new breakdown semiauto .22 where all the pieces fit in the watertight stock. Mind you, this is for smaller game, not bears. Lol. You know that.

Knife: SEAL Pup is good, but a Cold Steel SRK is my preference.

Rations: military MREs or those foil packets of water and those bricks of emergency ration cubes. I believe the brand name is "The Ark" or something.

-Tarp or tent: Paracord and tarp is my preference, or maybe a milsurp rollup emergency ground shelter.

-Fishing: Some line, several hooks, a couple of basic all-around lures, rubber cheese worms, and weights will take care of most survival fishing needs and will fit in a prescription pill bottle.

Snares: Just buy a good length of snare cord (white, smooth, silky-feeling stuff that feels softer than rope does. It is designed to both slide smoothly with snare slipknots and also tie solid, tight knots whem needed. Most importantly, learn how to use it if you don't know already!)

Binocs: Whatever it is, make it rubber-armored and shock resistant. I assume you don't want to spend thousands on Zeiss or Steiners, so in light of that, I say any of the Nikon/Minolta higher-priced ones from Wal Mart. The best from Walmart would be the lowest starting point at a real hunting outfitter, but they should serve for survival's sake.

Oh, and I DID read your whole post! Lol. It's just late so I am sticking to your bullet points for now. Ask me anything else you like, though, here or via PM. Not that I'm so fucking smart or anything - I'm just making myself available. I can help bigtime with the medical/first aid stuff though, given my profession (could teach you to suture, for example, and which method for a given wound, etc).


Great kit though! What do you keep it all in? I may have missed it, if you already told us, sorry.

[L33tz]

do not forget the development of body and mind

[Infrared]

^ He's right, this is perhaps the most important addition to your "kit"!

Also, make sure you know how, when and when NOT to use all of your equipment! And I don't mean just google it real fast: I mean, for example, practice making a small fire wih your mag firestarter (and shaving wood for tinder and all that), learn different snare construction techniques and actually practive making them in your backyard or something, know how to tie knots...the list goes on and on!

I'm sure you're a smart guy and probably understand the importance of all this anyway, but hey, ya never know...I always have had a fire steel and/or magnesium firestarter (not the exact same things) with me through the years, but I only finally tried to make a fire with one about 6 months ago. Lemme tell you, it was harder than I thought! The mag one was fairly easy since it provides its own volatile fuel (the shavings) which burns very hot, but the cylindrical ferrocerium rod (aka "fire steel" or "flint", although it is not flint) took more skill. You gotta get your tinder VERY fine and you have to do a lot of blowing once you get an ember...Just like your momma does for me!! Oh SNAP!! jk.

Anyway. Practice makes perfect, and knowledge will keep you alive.

[encroach]

-Water
-Rifle and ammo
-Tin foil hat
-Food

[General Butt.Naked]

Originally Posted by Infrared

Signal mirror!

Good light: Coleman makes an LED one that's cheap, sturdy, pretty bright, good on batteries and also has red and blue LEDs (to preserve your night vision and track blood respectively), look for it in a good outdoors store. Forgot the model name, sorry.

First aid: best to get a rugged watertight box and make your own. I won't list EVERY item to put in it, but be ready to treat:
Cuts/scrapes
Burns (sun or fire)
Broken bones (sturdy bandages, break-down splints)
Fish hook sticks (needlenose pliers or hemostats, small end nipper)
Hypothermia/shock (space blanket)
Pain (tylenol/ibuprofen/etc..my personal fave is BC powder)
Animal bites (sterile/antibio irrigation solution, it's out there. Also prayer, lol, for rabies prevention)
Minor shit like splinters, poison ivy, etc.
And maybe more...try to pack things that have a couple uses, like sutures: good for mending clothes, improv fishing line, mending you. Read up on how to properly suture wounds. Would teach you here, but takes too long. PM if needed) just one example.

Sidearm: Glock 20 10mm or any simple, sturdy .44 mag from Ruger, SW, etc. 4" bbl minimum.

Reloading: can't help there, sorry

Survival longarm: That new breakdown semiauto .22 where all the pieces fit in the watertight stock. Mind you, this is for smaller game, not bears. Lol. You know that.

Knife: SEAL Pup is good, but a Cold Steel SRK is my preference.

Rations: military MREs or those foil packets of water and those bricks of emergency ration cubes. I believe the brand name is "The Ark" or something.

-Tarp or tent: Paracord and tarp is my preference, or maybe a milsurp rollup emergency ground shelter.

-Fishing: Some line, several hooks, a couple of basic all-around lures, rubber cheese worms, and weights will take care of most survival fishing needs and will fit in a prescription pill bottle.

Snares: Just buy a good length of snare cord (white, smooth, silky-feeling stuff that feels softer than rope does. It is designed to both slide smoothly with snare slipknots and also tie solid, tight knots whem needed. Most importantly, learn how to use it if you don't know already!)

Binocs: Whatever it is, make it rubber-armored and shock resistant. I assume you don't want to spend thousands on Zeiss or Steiners, so in light of that, I say any of the Nikon/Minolta higher-priced ones from Wal Mart. The best from Walmart would be the lowest starting point at a real hunting outfitter, but they should serve for survival's sake.

Oh, and I DID read your whole post! Lol. It's just late so I am sticking to your bullet points for now. Ask me anything else you like, though, here or via PM. Not that I'm so fucking smart or anything - I'm just making myself available. I can help bigtime with the medical/first aid stuff though, given my profession (could teach you to suture, for example, and which method for a given wound, etc).


Great kit though! What do you keep it all in? I may have missed it, if you already told us, sorry.

Good call on the signal mirror. That reminds me that I should also include a mini magnifying glass for firemaking and identification of plants and such.

And this is the pack I bought to put everything in:

http://www.amazon.com/Mountaineering...3269455&sr=8-1

And SHiiiiiittTTT. I loved the Cold Steel SRK from the second I saw it. Its just simple, beefy, sturdy, beautiful...looks like a pocket knife got raped by a crowbar. When I was trying to make a knife decision before I bought the Seal Pup, I researched the sRK and for some reason I only found them around $185 bucks. Now Im on Amazon and seeing it for $65...Wanna kick myself. I might have to buy it. But then Ill have 2 knives at around 6 inches. Grrrrrr. I need one longer knife- 7 inches or above- and a good hatchet or small axe. Still have to research that last one too.

Oh man- youre awesome. Thats exactly what I was looking for. YEAH I saw that flashlight and was thinking of getting it. I know exactly what youre talking about. This Fenix E11 i got is about 4 inches long and the girth of a quarter, runs on 1 AA battery at 105 lumens for 3 hours on the highest setting, and then you can twist the top for a slightly lower setting at someting like 85 lumens for 5 hours. Im loving it. My friend said the 4-color flashlight was kinda gimmicky- and it may be. But the ability to track wounded animals and stuff might come in kinda handy. I was thinking of getting a bigger flashlight, but now that you guys have got me started thinking about weight, ill probably just try to keep this baby juiced with recharged batteries, and use fire for any light i need at light, maybe paired with the light from the LED on the emergency radio.

Thats a good basis for a medical kit too. My friend is an EMT and I asked him to get a list together for me, but he keeps forgetting. Im thinking the quik clot, lots of gauze, the duct tape could be used with gauze to make band-aids for cuts, and with sturdy branches for a brace for broken limbs. The isopropyl could also be used as a sterilizing agent. Aspirin, ibuprofen for basic pain reliever, fever reducer. Heroin and/or hydrocodone for more extreme pain ( i get norcos dirt cheap). A few safety razors also wouldnt be a half bad idea- theyre ultra sharp ( im talking one of the sharpest things ive ever seen) used to put into the old single-blade razors. Theyre double-sided, super thin, and very flimsy. You could carry like 50 of them in a small matchbox, and use them for fine cutting work, shaving, or in a medical capacity- individually or fastened to a stick- as a scalpel. Tweezers, super glue, Needles and thread, maybe a bit of surgical tubing, 2 or 3 insulin syringes, an isreali bandage, The most important, basic things would probably be a shit-ton of gauze, a bunch of tape, needles and thread, quick clot, the razor blades and antibiotics.

The weapons- 10mm would be an awesome defense round, but im thinking of something that id be able to scavenge pretty easily if need be. I most likely wouldnt be running into polar bears or grizzlies to warrant .44 or .50, but im thinking a .45 might not be horrible, or since ive been toying with the idea of getting a S&W .38 snubbie, maybe I could instead get that in .357, and fire .38 out of it for practice. 10mm is just such an underappreciated round. I imagine if I walked down any street in america and started rummagine through people's houses, I'd be able to find at least a handfull of .45 ACP in at least one of those houses. I dont think I could say the same for 10mm.

I think the .22 youre talking about is the Papoose. Ive heard nothing but good things about it. Im still wondering if A pistol like the Ruger Mk. III couldnt do the same job with less space, and with added concealability- if that becomes necessary. Then again, having that stock and longer barrel are going to increase accuracy and velocity, and with the papoose, in a pinch you could lend it out to a friend to help ward off an attack by thieves or somesuch.

I guess ive come to the conclusion that a .22 is almost a necessity. For all around utility, I was looking at the Marlin 795(?). Although I like my friends 10/22 with synthetic stock, its almost twice the price, and performs the same, but is heavier. Too bad there's not some .22 pistol with a fold- back stock..or one where the holster could attach to the back and double as a stock- te way some of the Germa.n semiautos did. Thatd be perfect.

I havent decided on survival food yet. All the Mountain House stuff looks good - 'Beef and Cheesey Noodle", "Lasagna with Meat Sauce", "Beef Stroganoff" etc- and I know a lot of people say that tasty food is important to morale- but I could probably do just fine with MREs or those food block things- just a fucking square packed with, fat, sugar and calories. Truth be told, I could probably survive for 2 or 3 weeks on my body fat alone. Ive obviously been serious about survival for a long time. lol. So MRE's or emergency food blocks with a few Mountain House meals thrown in wouldnt be bad, and maybe a pouch of Gatorade mix- for sugar and electrolytes. I also included the multivitamins in case I end up eating boiled tree roots and garden snails for 3 months.

Shelter- Yeah I was thinking bringing a couple of tarps because their uses are so varied, but they also dont protect from wind much, so youd have to supplement them with branches or debris as a wind-brake. They sell Army pup-tents online for pretty cheap, but i dont know how big they are, and how effective theyd be/ how much they weigh...since Im a big dude, and since I imagine a roll of canvas could end up being pretty heavy. My pack actually has a compartment for a sleeping bag, so I started looking at bivvy sacks. I had no idea what they were at first, but its actually a great idea- basically a super sturdy sleeping bag with a little mesh dome built over the head. Basically instead of you going inside a tent, they built a tent around you. Itd actually be perfect in situations were I didnt want to o couldnt chop branches/ collect leaves to fashion a makeshift shelter....but again, I dont know how heavy/ bulky those things are, and theyre also fairly expenisve. Im confident that with my skills, I could fashion some type of shelter, but if I can compactly stow it, id prefer to pack some small 1 or 2 person tent.

Traps- For the snares, I was just going to buy some 10 or 12 gauge brass wire (If im not shooting it, chances are its going to be small- squirrels, opossums, etc) I read up on how to tie snares, but it looks like more goes into it than I once thought. When you think about it, an animal thrashing around is likely to bend the wire around until it snaps. I suppose that might be why you said use rope-like material, but i get the feeling they'd chew through that or even see it if its too fat (unless youve used it effectively?) I decided itd probably be best to buy a small assortment of professionally made snares. They have locks around the loop to make sure it doesnt come undone, and snare swivels to allow the snare to twist without breaking. Theyre made of aircraft grade aluminum cable, and from the photos they proudly showed on their site- they work. Id probably buy a handful of those in small and medium sizes, and then a spool of small gauge wire for myself. After all- cordage always comes in handy. And then , i could make stuff like an ojibwa bird pole (see- I AM a survival nerd).

For the optics, I was looking at the Brunton Echo Zoom model. Small, cheap, and rubber coated. These dont need to be precision optics. I dont need a spotting scope for sniper shots. I have 20/20 vision, so even just a little bit of magnification will help me out, to see whats just ahead. A monocular is small and compact, but from what I read (which makes perfect sense), binos give you better depth perception, which could become vital wen trying to plot landmarks, potential dangers, points of interest or a particular spot on a map. Still havent deicded yet. As with most stuff on this list though, I will probably end up buying the cheapest thing that will reliably do the job, and then upgrade stuff as I go along.

And thanks for reading it. Im always down to get some survial talk in, and I'd really like to refine the contents this bag.

Im looking at lightweight emergency radios now. They include a light on them, as well as a crank, battery and solar power. They say theyre able to charge phones and USB devices. That makes me tink that with some basic mods, you could make a little battery pack and power other stuff. Obviously youd have to crank until your dick falls off to get any real juice out of it, but itd still be good to have. Should I get the version with the 2-way radio on it or the one without?

And memememem- I know in the most extreme situations, major utilities and internet wouldnt be up forever- but depending on the exact situation, severity, etc...theres a good chance that government sites and major stuff would still be up. Obviously most servers would go down, but Im thinking that like ham radio there must be some very primative means of computer communication that could be accomplished without the internet as we know it. I could just be talking out of my ass too though.

[General Butt.Naked]

Originally Posted by Infrared

^ He's right, this is perhaps the most important addition to your "kit"!

Also, make sure you know how, when and when NOT to use all of your equipment! And I don't mean just google it real fast: I mean, for example, practice making a small fire wih your mag firestarter (and shaving wood for tinder and all that), learn different snare construction techniques and actually practive making them in your backyard or something, know how to tie knots...the list goes on and on!

I'm sure you're a smart guy and probably understand the importance of all this anyway, but hey, ya never know...I always have had a fire steel and/or magnesium firestarter (not the exact same things) with me through the years, but I only finally tried to make a fire with one about 6 months ago. Lemme tell you, it was harder than I thought! The mag one was fairly easy since it provides its own volatile fuel (the shavings) which burns very hot, but the cylindrical ferrocerium rod (aka "fire steel" or "flint", although it is not flint) took more skill. You gotta get your tinder VERY fine and you have to do a lot of blowing once you get an ember...Just like your momma does for me!! Oh SNAP!! jk.

Anyway. Practice makes perfect, and knowledge will keep you alive.

Yeah Im not one of those people who just buys a bunch of flashy shit to have around. Im actually trying to play though scenarios in my head, and what kind of skills would be needed to get out of Lon Angeles, and to a safe area with viable resources. Ive been practicing trap making, solar stills, plant identification, tying knots and hitches, woodcraft and weaving, firemaking, how to dress and skin a killed animal, building different types of shelter, making rope out of plants and grasses, methods of finding/ purifying/ storing water, the importance of different vitamins and nutrients on the mechanical operation of the body, as well as water rationing. Soon im going to try to learn ow to use my compass, and navigation/map making, topography, and some more basic medical stuff. I naturally have a petty varied knowledge on a wide variety of topics, which is why I think id be kickass at Jeopardy.

Yeah Its really easy to think that you can buy the hardware and that things are gonna just fall into place, without practicing or learning the techniques and skills. When I opened up my package with the firesteel in it, I went outside and found the driest leaf I could find, and started showering sparks onto it. Nothing. I was like "Wtf?! It said this thing produced sparks of 3000 degrees. What the shit?"for like 20 minutes I scraped sparks into a pile of dried leaves without success. Finally I realized that I had to grind the leaves into almost a snuff-like powder before anything would catch. Hopefully ill use my lighters sparingly enough though that my ferro rod will not be often needed.

Oh- lol- and anyone that thinks theyre just gonna saunter out into the forest and build a raging fire with a bent stick, a board and a shoestring- is seriously mistaken. I sat with the fire bow for like an HOUR...all for a hot piece of wood and no fire. Without a notched cup on top, its almost impossible to hold the spindle steady and in the correct location. Also, they usually have to be made from separate woods- the fire board being a softer wood and the spindle a harder wood. Theres a ton of little things that make these methods work. Its not as simple as just doing...

I actually wish there were some people out here in the LA area thatd be down for some practice runs/ minimalist camping and stuff. None of my friends want to have anything to do with this, and think im crazy for spending money on this stuff and enjoying planning for it. I actually find myself praying every once and a while for some global cataclysm so that i can put these skills to use. I dont know what it is about survival stuff- I guess its just very basic. Everything you do is to meet an immediate need. Every act has meaning and importance. You cant say that of most of the stuff we do everyday- its mostly just monotonous bullshit designed to keep us busy and to-task. If you gave me like 2 weeks in the woods with a bunch of recyclable trash and a few tools, i would have some rudimentary shelter with running water, beds, a shower, an over and stovetop, cooler, etc- and id have fun doing it. A couple of my favorite shows on Netflix are The Colony and Out of the Wild.

And thank you for noticing. My mom does give good ember, doesnt she?always thinking of others, makaing sure their fire gets lit. Truly a selfless woman.

[is all mememememe with me]

Originally Posted by CASPER

Now Im on Amazon and seeing it for $65...Wanna kick myself. I might have to buy it. But then Ill have 2 knives at around 6 inches. Grrrrrr.

i know i said about keeping it light, but hell that's probably the one thing you can't have too many of. knives easily get lost out there. i'd say if you can spare the room then keep one on your person and one in the bottom of your kit.

also just a heads up, if you are out there and you do have extra kit, and you do feel like your camp could be compromised. then burying some kit that you could come back for later wouldn't be a bad idea.

[is all mememememe with me]

Originally Posted by CASPER

When I opened up my package with the firesteel in it, I went outside and found the driest leaf I could find, and started showering sparks onto it. Nothing. I was like "Wtf?! It said this thing produced sparks of 3000 degrees. What the shit?"for like 20 minutes I scraped sparks into a pile of dried leaves without success. Finally I realized that I had to grind the leaves into almost a snuff-like powder before anything would catch. Hopefully ill use my lighters sparingly enough though that my ferro rod will not be often needed.

nother heads up, cotton wool lights from the tiniest of sparks so fucking easy it's unreal, and it can be crammed into the tiniest of spaces. you can even fluff cotton wool off those cotton sweaters, you know the ones with the white fluffy type insides. times i've got a cigarette or something going from a bit of fluff and a tiny bit of cw picked out my top, lol.

[General Butt.Naked]

Yeah when I was bored in class I used to shave my blue jeans with my knife and get little piles of lint that I could set on fire. Same with cotton socks- you hold a lighter to one of those things and it goes up like a little torch for a second.

[is all mememememe with me]

yep, i used to use the inside of my prison sweater and a spark from a lighter to smoke gear in my cell when i ran out of gas. 1 or 2 flicks to a little fluff sitting on the end of a toilet paper wick was all i needed. also cotton wool can be dried so easily if it gets wet. dragging a small piece thru your hair can do it if your hair is clean and dry, just from the static electricity. but failing that, just place a small piece inside your clothes and your body heat will dry it in an hour or so.

[General Butt.Naked]

lol....convicted felons would totally be the most well equipped people for the apocalypse.

[5.56 SS109]

Originally Posted by CASPER

So does the handpress work about the same and produce the same quality cartridges? You may not have used one yourself, but do you know about tem in general? I just dont have anyplace to mount a bench press. And what about a manual for someone beginning? And what do you think about what Ive read that reloads are not the best to use with semi-autos? Then again they might just mean maintainence wise- which could be made a moot point by cleaning and care.

So youd definitely favor the AR platform over a bolt? I was even looking at a bolt .223 for simplicity and ammo weight. I dont know how practical that is though. I suppose its worth mentioning that Im a fairly new shooter. I can field strip my handguns and reassemble them fine, but stripping them completely would probably result in an inoperable gun unless I had a step-by-step pictorial on how to reassemble it.

Never used a handpress, but other than the greater effort to resize your fired cases it should be the same.

With my cheap Lee Classic Cast press and Lee .223 Dies (cheapest dies I could find) I make ammo that is just as good as factory ammo, and that's if I half ass it. If I get really into it I can make stuff that outshoots factory match ammo for about 25% of what it would cost to buy it. I clone Hornady 60gr TAP for 23 cents per shot instead of over $1 a round it would cost to buy it.

So, if you follow the proper procedures, reloaded ammo would be (at worst) just as good as factory ammo the main advantage is that it is at least 50% of the price of buying factory stuff.

I haven't fired anything but my reloads through my AR15s in over a year and, so far, I have loaded and fired over 1300 trouble free rounds that cost less and group better than comparable factory ammo.

AR15s are fairly maintenance free, so you won't have any issues with having to clean it all the time.

But, since you may or may not have easy access to standard AR15 magazines, maybe a good bolt gun would work better for you.

Tikkas are really sweet rifles, I would get one in .308 if I were going the bolt gun route.

Regardless of what you buy, make sure it is high quality. I would rather have a top shelf bolt gun like a Tikka than a crappy AR15 clone from DPMS.

I just prefer the AR15 over the bolt gun because it is way more versatile in terms of what you can do with it.

[Cerberus]

Who's Bob?

[Infrared]

Another bolt-action rifle suggestion - The Steyr Scout Rifle in .308, the one designed to Col. Jeff Cooper's specs. It is basically an all-purpose, bug-out rifle by design. If not the actual Steyr Scout, get one from any reputable company that fits Cooper's criteria. Some say his ideas for what a rifle should be are outdated, but I say they are timeless. Just my opinion, and I am not saying there's anything wrong with a semiauto: I'm just in a traditional, bacon-and-eggs, bolt-action rifle-y kind of mood today.

Edit: Oh, and for info on Jeff Cooper and his rifle specs I spoke of, just hit Wikipedia and search for his name. It's a good, informative read.

[is all mememememe with me]

Originally Posted by CASPER

lol....convicted felons would totally be the most well equipped people for the apocalypse.

i detect a hint of sarcasm in you there, however what you say couldn't be more true in many cases. not all convicted felons are what you see on america's dumbest criminals. in fact the dumber ones are probly the only ones the cops allow the tv companies to show.

[tuer502gt]

Carry the least amount of shit that you can.

Don't look tactical, it makes you a target.

You can seriously survive with nothing.

Fire gives away your position with thermal and sight.

You can eat anything raw if it is fresh, eg, rare steak, or steak that has been just sealed on either side.

You don't need anything.

Anything someone has you need, don't barter or use cash, just kill them.

I would wear combats/khakis/cargo pants.

Take shit like string, a compass, a knife, even then not much because you don't want to look tactical.

Maybe a razor and scissors and soap so you don't look rough in towns and cities.

Maybe a hand held pocket size desalinator.

I don't know what you need, apart from quality clothes that don't look tactical.

If they wear out or break steal new ones off living or recently deceased people.

[reggie_love]

Originally Posted by tuer502gt

You can seriously survive with nothing.

You don't need anything.

Anything someone has you need, don't barter or use cash, just kill them..

If they wear out or break steal new ones off living or recently deceased people.

Thanks! Your contribution has been noted.

[tuer502gt]

You don't want to carry anything. You want to be camouflaged. In a city that means carry nothing.

Anything you need just kill to get.

Survivalism is easy. Living in comfort can be harder.

You can eat grass. And bugs. It's not hard. Fire is pointless it gives you away with scent and sight.

It is really easy. Don't over complicate it.

[tuer502gt]

My survival kit is:

Good pair of cargos that are in a fashionable colour that have a NSN, good socks, good shoes, not boots, t shirt, hoodie.

I can pass as a street dude but can hide in the bush if necessary.

In one pocket I have a pouch that has a blastmatch, swedish fire steel, small double edge chisel ground knife with a finger hole, 100m of 8kg IGFA rated line on a spool, 15m of paracord, about 20 fish hooks of small to medium sizes, various split shot lead, a really, really good compass, a small hook stone and a small knife stone. I think that's it. Oh and a packet of Sparklites that has been overloaded. Oh and condoms.

Whole thing is about 6 inches by 4 inches by 2 inches. Soft case.

Same pocket has a multi tool and a small LED torch. It's waterproof and has different coloured lenses.

Different pockets have:

$1500 cash

a very small amount of pure gold

a mini cologne bottle.

Expensive shower gel in a small tube (wash a shirt in it and don't rinse and it will smell nice for a long time. Can give you away in the bush).

Unopened razor.

That's about it. You can put anything else you want in other pockets.

[tuer502gt]

Oh and the small knife is in a leather sheath, and I've wrapped the handle and knife in hootchie cord for extra cordage. Probably got about 3m or so of extra cord on that, but I've tied it in a way that it provides grip and a wrist cord or neck cord.

[tuer502gt]

Oh wait put different socks in another pocket, like one thick, one thin, wear mediums. I also wear a singlet vest.

All good.

Throw a beanie in a pocket if it's fashionable in your area or it gets that cold.

Kill with hands, don't rely on a knife or gun. Don't carry in case searched by hostile forces. Reduce risk of detainment.

[tuer502gt]

Oh and the magnifying glass has a compass on it. It's not a lensatic either.

It's a flat orienteering type.

[is all mememememe with me]

Originally Posted by tuer502gt

Anything you need just kill to get.

that's the stupidest piece of advice ever. just because the authoritarian law has broken down doesn't mean you can just go around killing people or stealing and committing many crimes willy nilly. mob law will take over and every group will dish out their own style of justice and revenge. in fact as an outsider in an area you are likely to get the blame by the mob of any crimes committed, especially if someone is murdered. so killing someone would still be something you'd want to do only as a last resort. something you should do if there really isn't any other option to ensure your own survival.

[MAYOR]

So: temperature (climate);

I have encountered minus forty-seven degree celcius temperature in some regions of Canada. I don't know what that is in farenheight but I assure you gentlemen it's brutal. Along with that comes ice and snow which is water. So water proof coverings to essentially just keep your own bodyheat from being stolen from you and moisture away. If your circumstance is better for you in a place on Earth that's opposite of an August in Virginia.

[Jerk.]

Becker Bk2 </thread>

[Jerk.]

But seriously I would choose a BK2 or better an ESEE 5 as my main blade. In a real SHTF situation I don't want to have to be careful with my knife or risk having it break. That's the problem with KA BAR USMC and equavalents. They break so easily at the tang. 1095 isn't as brittle as harder steels such as D2 which are brittle in cold weather.

The best idea is to have different methods for each thing such as water purification. Tablets are okay but don't kill all bacteria/viruses (although it really depends on your environment). Basic filter (cloth, sand, charcoal, rocks in a bottle), solar disinfection, chlorine disinfection, boiling, distillation, using a filter.

Starting a fire: ferro rod, flame, magnification, battery, socket and spindle, bow, socket and spindle etc

If you can become reasonably able to survive with little then you will learn to know what is important for you and what is a waste of time and space.

Torch wise I love my fenix ld20. like 5 modes. AA batteries, I use eneloops. Lowest has like 100 hours or something which is suitable for night lantern with the lantern accessory. High is like 5 hours and bright. I have a dummy AA battery which can turn it into a single AA light and can extend the lowest mode.