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  #1  
Old 04-11-2012, 08:49 AM
neosade neosade is offline
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Default Post apocalypse: Qeustions about weapons in that world.

Hello everyone. Im not gun savy at all, o I apologize in advance for any "noob" things I might say lol Im about to start writing a story that takes place in a post apocalyptic setting, I think it's a great place to tell story's. It's like the wild west or even the dark ages with a perfect excuse to incorporate some modern flavor. Such as weapons! Anyway, I do plan on doing some more research besides just asking you guys but I would still love your help. I would really really appreciate it

Let's see, What would be the most common types of weapons found in a post apocolyptic society? Say 20 years after "The event"? By that I mean, What types of guns do you think would be easiest to maintain for that long or find replacement parts for or even improvise upon? what guns or types of guns do you think would be easiest to find?

How easy is ammo made or found for these weapons? Specifically, I want to know if ammo would be so incredibley scarce that more people would have to start resorting to melee weaponry again 20 years down the road?

Are melee weapons going to become an essential part of battle again at all?

What kind of armor would people be wearing? obviously not everyone is going to be able to find Kevlar. What kind of DIY protection do you see people wearing to stop bullets? How would you go about making some armor to protect yourself from a machete even?

All in all, What do YOU think society would start using against eachother in 20 or 30 years after the fall of "civilization" and "technology"? Feel free to speculate more and even elaborate on any any types of qeustions I might not have thought of.

Also, Go ahead and let me know specific gun names and types that would be in a large number all over the world.
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Old 04-11-2012, 08:53 AM
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Default Re: Post apocalypse: Qeustions about weapons in that world.

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  #3  
Old 04-11-2012, 09:05 AM
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Default Re: Post apocalypse: Qeustions about weapons in that world.

Yep, That's from mad max alright...
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Old 04-11-2012, 09:09 AM
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Default Re: Post apocalypse: Qeustions about weapons in that world.

Plasma weapons, laser rifles and sawed off shotgun.
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Old 04-11-2012, 09:13 AM
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Default Re: Post apocalypse: Qeustions about weapons in that world.

Yeah, Ive played fallout as well. I look to those games and movies like mad max of course but im aiming more toward realism.
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Old 04-11-2012, 09:14 AM
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Default Re: Post apocalypse: Qeustions about weapons in that world.

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Originally Posted by neosade View Post
Yeah, Ive played fallout as well. I look to those games and movies like mad max of course but im aiming more toward realism.
My response was completely legitimate.
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Old 04-11-2012, 09:18 AM
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Default Re: Post apocalypse: Qeustions about weapons in that world.

hmmm, Sure it was. Regardless, I don't remember saying it wasn't. Dont get so defensive
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Old 04-11-2012, 09:19 AM
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Default Re: Post apocalypse: Qeustions about weapons in that world.

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hmmm, Sure it was. Regardless, I don't remember saying it wasn't. Dont get so defensive
My buttcheeks got hard I got so defensive.
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Old 04-11-2012, 09:28 AM
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Default Re: Post apocalypse: Qeustions about weapons in that world.

To stay on topic, I think any weapon we have today would be available but in sparsity. Kalishnakov style weapons would obviously be more widespread and available.
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Old 04-11-2012, 03:56 PM
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Default Re: Post apocalypse: Qeustions about weapons in that world.

AKs and ARs will be around for a long, long time. Plus there is so much ammo for these (military and civilian), they will be a hot commodity in a post apocalypse situation. In Afghanistan we are still digging up AKs and 7.62 rounds that were captured during the soviet invasion
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  #11  
Old 04-11-2012, 05:57 PM
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Default Re: Post apocalypse: Qeustions about weapons in that world.

It all depends on how bad of an apocalypse.
Total loss a political structure, or total loss of manufacturing and distribution?
In the US, there will be ample casings for .22, 5.56, 9mm, .45cal and 7.62 nato because they're so prevalent in the marketplace already. Ditto with .410 and 12 gauge.
Guns last a long time if well maintained, a machete never runs out of bullets, and a good axe will always be useful.
Kevlar has a limited shelf life.
Lack of antibiotics, clean water, and food will probably thin the population by quite a bit.
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  #12  
Old 04-11-2012, 09:11 PM
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Default Re: Post apocalypse: Qeustions about weapons in that world.

Get a few .22's, rifles and pistols, stockpile hyper velocity, ultra high velocity, subsonics and ultra low velocity.

Stockpiling over 10k rounds of .22 doesn't take much space.

Keep a bit of .223 and .308 around for use against big dangerous things like wild dogs and people.

Use sparingly and mainly rely on .22.

You can kill people with .22 if you have to.
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  #13  
Old 04-11-2012, 09:28 PM
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Default Re: Post apocalypse: Qeustions about weapons in that world.

ammunition is easy to cast, gunpowder is easy to make. Once weapons production has ceased, it will still be easy to cast new parts and make rounds.

Also, just read through this forum, most gun owners have the same shit. So anything we reference all the time is something fairly common.
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  #14  
Old 04-11-2012, 10:18 PM
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Default Re: Post apocalypse: Qeustions about weapons in that world.

Gun powder is hard to make.

Black powder is easier to make, but still not easy.

I want to know how someone discovered black powder all that time ago. It's not as simple as throwing the ingredients together.

It was probably a gift from the fire gods.
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  #15  
Old 04-11-2012, 10:33 PM
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Default Re: Post apocalypse: Qeustions about weapons in that world.

Meh, I'm more worried about seeds than guns.

Note: You will die as a rugged individual. We are a communal species, thus to survive and beyond that thrive, you must be part of a community.
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  #16  
Old 04-11-2012, 11:50 PM
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Default Re: Post apocalypse: Qeustions about weapons in that world.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yawanur View Post
Meh, I'm more worried about seeds than guns.

Note: You will die as a rugged individual. We are a communal species, thus to survive and beyond that thrive, you must be part of a community.
My story isnt about action. There will no doubt be gangs of people who would take advantage of this world and people will need to protect themselves. That's but a small aspect of what im writing. I dont know what you mean by "rugged individual" though.

Again everyone, Im writing a story. Im not trying to come up with a "plan" for living in a fictional apocalypse. lol
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Old 04-12-2012, 03:17 AM
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Default Re: Post apocalypse: Qeustions about weapons in that world.

I have a laser cannon that shoots beams of aids.
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Old 04-12-2012, 03:25 AM
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Default Re: Post apocalypse: Qeustions about weapons in that world.

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I have a laser cannon that shoots beams of aids.
You mean nigger semen?


Semi-related to thread: I dont know why people stockpile gold and silver for the apocalypse. To me, that will worthless in such a situation. I've always thought ammo would be a much more powerful bargaining chip
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  #19  
Old 04-12-2012, 04:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p6867 View Post
ammunition is easy to cast, gunpowder is easy to make. Once weapons production has ceased, it will still be easy to cast new parts and make rounds.

Also, just read through this forum, most gun owners have the same shit. So anything we reference all the time is something fairly common.
Casting bullets and making gunpowder may be easy but may not be completely practical when making ammo for modern weapons. The issues I see when running somehting like an AK on lead nosed projectiles are fouling the barrel with lead (as their is no copper jacket) and serious carbon build up due to black powder burning much dirtier than modern smokeless. Also unless smokeless powder (and primers for that matter) are able to be produced, I'm not entirely sure that modern semi automatics would be comparable with black powder ammunition because they may not generate enough pressure in the chamber to cycle the action. (Though I could be totally wrong about that, you may just need to load the black powder rounds "hot" to get the weapon to cycle.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by roasted View Post
I've always thought ammo would be a much more powerful bargaining chip
True, trading practically useful items will likely have more value immediately following a disaster. However something to consider when trading arms and ammo is do you want to barter something to someone who can turn around and shoot you with it?



Neosade, The answer to your question is largely dependent on the nature of the disaster...
Something like a nuclear or massive conventional war would likely destroy much of the industrial infrastructure and means to produce these weapons and ammo.
A super virus on the other hand might leave most of the weapons production technology and would have the benefit of leaving a large surplus of ammunition that could last for year.

Most firearms would remain functional for 20 years if oiled and cleaned after use. It is possible to "shoot out" a barrel after several thousand rounds however unless you were in constant combat it seems unlikely that this would happen. More probable is maybe 5 rounds a day for hunting or with the occasional gunfight thrown in.

That said, post disaster I think people will quickly realize that most gunfights will be loose / loose, simply unless "group A" is much larger, better trained, more heavily armed or more completely desperate than "group B" they would be wise to avoid confrontation.

The weapons that I see becoming big in the PAW...

Pump shotguns: Simple function, easy to cycle through "dud rounds", really build for acuracy so it will continue to retain its original roll of "powerful up close"

AK-XX: The classic, stamped parts allow for a little "play" in the parts so rust and dirt may not effect the weapon as much. Gas piston action may also be more reliable with various types of ammo that Gas impingement systems (debatable).

AR-15 style: A tone of these floating around the US make it possible to fine a good deal of compatible parts, its modularity will also make it popular for its adaptability, IE normally running a .223 for defense but having a .22LR bolt and magazines for hunting small game.

Bolt actions: like pump actions since you manually cycle the action unreliable ammo can still be used, and it remain a practical option for hunting larger game.

On armor, While Kevlar has a "shelf life" IIRC the reduction of tensile strength is negligible, over 30+ years it may become an issue but inside 20 they should still preform well enough. Ceramic plates however should suffer no degradation due to time however they can be cracked if dropped or slammed.

So long story short, we'll probably be using the same things that we use today, though guns that are less popular may start to disappear because of lack of replacement parts (calico, Thompson, Styer aug)
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  #20  
Old 04-12-2012, 04:26 AM
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Default Re: Post apocalypse: Qeustions about weapons in that world.

Making smokeless powder is easy. i probably won't be the only chemist to survive whatever your ragnarok du jour is. Why can't you jacket your rounds? and if it gets fouled, clean it.
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Old 04-12-2012, 05:26 AM
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Default Re: Post apocalypse: Qeustions about weapons in that world.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbonbased View Post
So long story short, we'll probably be using the same things that we use today, though guns that are less popular may start to disappear because of lack of replacement parts (calico, Thompson, Styer aug)
Not if I have anything to say about it



But seriously, good post.
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Old 04-12-2012, 06:35 AM
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Default Re: Post apocalypse: Qeustions about weapons in that world.

It really all depends upon the type of apocalypse.

I can tell you one thing for sure: Carbon steel will most likely be around.

You don't need fancy gadgets to craft a sword. You just iron, charcoal, a forge, hammers and tongs.

Even if most of the knowledge dies out, a couple hundred years of trial and error will restore smithing to its former glory.
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Old 04-12-2012, 11:30 AM
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Default Re: Post apocalypse: Qeustions about weapons in that world.

I can imagine in areas where guns and ammo are plentiful that theyll probably still be used, but ammo will obviously be old and pretty much only found in people's hoarded supplies. Theyll probably use them sparingly.

I would guess bows and arrows might make a comeback. Even slingshots can do a bit of damage. Also, perhaps distilled ethanol molotovs?
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Old 04-12-2012, 12:06 PM
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Default Re: Post apocalypse: Qeustions about weapons in that world.

again, nothing about ammo is hard to make.
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Old 04-13-2012, 11:49 AM
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Default Re: Post apocalypse: Qeustions about weapons in that world.

Quote:
Originally Posted by p6867 View Post
again, nothing about ammo is hard to make.
Explain??

Things like nitrocellulose and casting lead seem fairly straight forward but what about machining the casing and making primers?
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Old 04-16-2012, 04:05 AM
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Default Re: Post apocalypse: Qeustions about weapons in that world.

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Originally Posted by tuer502gt View Post
I want to know how someone discovered black powder all that time ago. It's not as simple as throwing the ingredients together.
No, but without TV and the internet to keep you busy all the time you find inventive ways to use your time. And yea, it was made by some guy in his house throwing things together and seeing what happened. Remember alchemy? Some guy was probably dicking around and spilled some over an open flame.

And it's actually quite easy to make, once you know where to get the saltpeter. I'm not giving out my source, but you can literally find it at a store. Sulphur is just there to make it easier to light up, and adds minimal power to the reaction.

The secret to making proper black powder is proportions, type of wood you make the charcoal from, how hot you cooked the charcoal, how finely everything is ground before mixing, and then the corning size. Thats only if you make it to the corning stage without blowing yourself up in the process.

Also, don't even think about reloading semi-autos with black powder rounds unless you run them without oil. I researched a little about this for a black powder 1911 and it was observed that the lube quickly turned to gunk and jammed up the action. Better to use it in revolvers, pump shotguns, lever guns, break actions, and muzzleloaders.

Primers aren't too hard to reload either, but their performance is rather weak. Matches and some other common explosives could be used. Flintlocks or electronic muzzleloaders would be a great thing to have around.

After total catastrophe, I'd imagine a large amount of violence ensuing, especially in cities. Rural areas would probably see mostly violent marauder bands. Wild game would quickly be destroyed within a matter of months, violence might flare up again as those who have thus far survived would start killing off neighbors in search of food, or possibly even as food.

Keeping to rural areas, since that's where I live, marksmanship is not that high, on average. Most people keep a few guns, but are not that proficient in their usage. 6 MOA is enough to kill a deer at 100 yards, and most people are content with setting up in blinds or stands to get close kills, not needing a lot of skill. High degree of working and expensiveness of ammo leaves little time or ammo for practice. Few practice long range .22 shots, content to pop cans at shorter ranges.Propensity to kill intruders is very high, although propensity to murder is mild. You can expect to see a wide variety of hunting weapons and cartridges, especially .22. Intermediate cartridges will be found almost exclusively with military-style hardware and likely not as common, house-to-house, as posters might like to think. Emergency preparedness is lax, as is expectation of armed stakeout and assault, although in an emergency alertness will be elevated. High amount of religiousness may mitigate alertness as prayers are substituted for awareness. High degree of diabetes will mean many casualties early on into the disaster, as insulin will not last long without refrigeration. Fair amount of well-water users in the area. Lower intelligence and lack of diversified knowledge will mean few will know how to properly distill water on a large scale or preserve food.

No other notes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mantikore View Post
Explain??

Things like nitrocellulose and casting lead seem fairly straight forward but what about machining the casing and making primers?
Casings are barely machined, and not machined at all for rimmed cases, and doing so would be a huge waste of brass. Casings are drawn or extruded in several stages and the parts required would require very high precision and quality to make anything close to usable. As well, drawing and extrusion dies require a lot of specialized knowledge, much to be learned on the fly.
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Old 04-16-2012, 04:17 AM
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Default Re: Post apocalypse: Qeustions about weapons in that world.

All you need to do is have a plan B.

Plan A is having weapons.

Plan B is having a hot broad to whore off
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Old 04-21-2012, 07:09 PM
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Default Re: Post apocalypse: Qeustions about weapons in that world.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.56 SS109 View Post
Not if I have anything to say about it



But seriously, good post.
That Calico in .22 or 9mm? Either way - pretty badass.
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