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  #1  
Old 04-12-2012, 09:30 PM
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Default Best CQB sight for under $400?

Here's a question for you guys with AR and/or military experience - I know there's more than a few of you here.

What's the best CQB scope option for under $400.00? It's for an H&k clone in 5.56, 16" barrel - 1 in 7 twist, and a picatinny rail on top. The gun is quite accurate with iron sights, but I'd like to upgrade to something fast and crisp.

Need something that will acquire easily at relatively close ranges (25 - 200 meters). I've no experience with red dot or holographic sights so I'm asking those of you who know.
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Old 04-12-2012, 09:35 PM
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Default Re: Best CQB sight for under $400?

Aimpoint comp m3 or micro H-1
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Old 04-12-2012, 09:45 PM
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Default Re: Best CQB sight for under $400?

Id get the 1,600 rounds of ammo that will buy and practice with my irons.
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Old 04-12-2012, 10:10 PM
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Default Re: Best CQB sight for under $400?

Aimpoint PRO is $400 and it comes with a mount.
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Old 04-12-2012, 10:28 PM
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Default Re: Best CQB sight for under $400?

I am very pleased with my EOTech XPS. Its a little above 400, but I think its worth it. For CQB, the target acquisition of the EOTech is hard to beat. Its also parallax-free. I would take it over a Aimpoint any day.
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Old 04-12-2012, 11:01 PM
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Default Re: Best CQB sight for under $400?

Get an EOTech even if you pay $200 more for it you'll still be happy with it. I own three different models at this time and they're hands down my favorite optics.
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Old 04-12-2012, 11:47 PM
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Default Re: Best CQB sight for under $400?

Aimpoint blows EOTech out of the water.

Better controls because all you have to do is rotate a brightness knob up or down, instead of having to push Up or Down buttons to cycle through the brightness settings like on an EOTech.

Aimpoint PRO comes with a quality quick detach mount that is better than anything there is for EOTechs.

Aimpoint battery life is measured in years, my HD gun has an Aimpoint ML3 and I haven't turned it off in close to a year.

Plus Aimpoints have higher quality glass and don't get pixelated like EOTechs do.
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Old 04-13-2012, 08:15 AM
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Default Re: Best CQB sight for under $400?

You are just an argumentative fuck arent you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.56 SS109 View Post
Aimpoint blows EOTech out of the water.

Better controls because all you have to do is rotate a brightness knob up or down, instead of having to push Up or Down buttons to cycle through the brightness settings like on an EOTech.
This is irrelevant because if you've ever used an EOTech, you'd know that a mid-range brightness setting will work in 99% of time. You set it to about 10 and leave pretty much leave it there. Unless you are in absolute pitch black or in a snowfield, you dont have to mess with the brightness settings. If you do need to adjust brightness, its usually within 1-2 clicks of what you want

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.56 SS109 View Post
Aimpoint PRO comes with a quality quick detach mount that is better than anything there is for EOTechs.
Why do you need a quick detach mount? Why would this be a deciding factor? When you mount the EOTech it isnt going anywhere unless you want it to. Mounting is irrelevant. Even if you are an anal fuckbag (such as yourself) the EXPS comes with a quick detach mount

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.56 SS109 View Post
Aimpoint battery life is measured in years, my HD gun has an Aimpoint ML3 and I haven't turned it off in close to a year.
Depending on the model, EOTechs have a 600-1000 hr battery life. Any button will turn on the EOTech, its not like booting up a computer before battle. It takes about .005 seconds to turn it on after you hit the bolt catch, your hand is already right there

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.56 SS109 View Post
Plus Aimpoints have higher quality glass and don't get pixelated like EOTechs do.
Um yeah, thats completely false. If your EOTech is pixelated, thats because you dont know how to use it. The resolution of an EOTech reticle is only limited by the operators eyesight, so you are either blind or dont know how to aim a gun (hint: you focus on the target, not the reticle...look past the sights)
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Old 04-13-2012, 09:46 PM
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Default Re: Best CQB sight for under $400?

1000 hours is a little under 2 months. I don't want to be fucked with even a half a second of bullshit if someone starts shooting me.

A quick detach is especially important for an EOTech for when it breaks because you bumped it against a pillow or something you'll want to detach it quickly and transition to BUIS.

The more you know
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Old 04-13-2012, 09:58 PM
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Default Re: Best CQB sight for under $400?

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Originally Posted by SteamPunk View Post
1000 hours is a little under 2 months. I don't want to be fucked with even a half a second of bullshit if someone starts shooting me.

A quick detach is especially important for an EOTech for when it breaks because you bumped it against a pillow or something you'll want to detach it quickly and transition to BUIS.

The more you know
It sounds like you've never used an EOTech before. Thats ok. You dont have to project your insecurities as hatred. Go to BassPro, they'll let you play around with an EOTech.

Any time you spend turning on an EOTech sight will be regained with the much quicker target acquisition. Sighting with two eyes is pretty useful in CQB

See, the great thing about an EOTech is, you dont have to remove it to use BUIS. No part of the EOTech blocks the iron sights, and it still works with a obstructed/cracked lens.

Side note: This kinda looks like a quick detach to me...I could be wrong though, I only own two of them...

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  #11  
Old 04-14-2012, 01:17 AM
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Default Re: Best CQB sight for under $400?

The issue is the quality of the QD mount.

The Aimpoint QRP2 mount is fantastic, EOTech's QD is cheesy and the lever feels like it's pot metal. Granted you can get a Bobro for the EOTech, but the Aimpoint PRO comes from Aimpoint with a great mount.

I like the EOTech reticle better and the wider FOV increases speed. But the durability of the Aimpoint wins, hands down.

EOTechs are cool for 3-gun or whatever, but Aimpoint is the only reflex sight I would trust my life to.

Hell I would take a Trijicon RX30 over any EOTech.
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  #12  
Old 04-14-2012, 03:53 PM
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Default Re: Best CQB sight for under $400?

i know little about this stuff
but i think the fact that the aimpoint can stay on for years is pretty damn cool. and also that some use a standard size battery. i believe theres even one that takes a standard AA?

i think in a WROL situation, that could be pretty useful


on a side note, i dont like how tritium on trijicon sights only lasts 10 years
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Old 04-14-2012, 11:14 PM
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Default Re: Best CQB sight for under $400?

These guys are right so far, but allow me to present a really cheap option: the Sightmark QD Ultra. It's basically an EOTech clone, but costs only about $75-100. It has 4 reticles, is decently bright and will be adequate for pretty much any recreational needs. Mind you, it will not be as durable or have the battery life of better sights, but as long as you don't plan on throwing it against the wall, it'll be fine. Holds zero well too. I got mine for Xmas and I am pretty happy with it. Just another option
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  #14  
Old 04-15-2012, 01:01 AM
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Default Re: Best CQB sight for under $400?

5.56: Do all Aimpoints have that long battery life? I know that the Aimpoint CS (swedish army issue) do have a 10 year battery life, but it uses a special battery and must be replaced at the factory, but i know nothing about the other models.
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Old 04-16-2012, 03:22 AM
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Default Re: Best CQB sight for under $400?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Swede View Post
5.56: Do all Aimpoints have that long battery life? I know that the Aimpoint CS (swedish army issue) do have a 10 year battery life, but it uses a special battery and must be replaced at the factory, but i know nothing about the other models.
Aimpoints have always had vastly longer battery life than any other electronic sights.

Aimpoints from 20 years ago have battery life that compares to EOTech's current offerings.

Ever since Aimpoint went with the new ACET diode technology starting with the M3 series, there really can't be a fair comparison with ANY other electronic sight.

Aimpoint's "entry level" red dot still has 30,000 hours of constant on.

So, think of it like this, the battery you will use to replace the one that burnt out hasn't even been made yet.
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Old 04-16-2012, 03:55 AM
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Default Re: Best CQB sight for under $400?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.56 SS109 View Post
Aimpoints have always had vastly longer battery life than any other electronic sights.

Aimpoints from 20 years ago have battery life that compares to EOTech's current offerings.

Ever since Aimpoint went with the new ACET diode technology starting with the M3 series, there really can't be a fair comparison with ANY other electronic sight.

Aimpoint's "entry level" red dot still has 30,000 hours of constant on.

So, think of it like this, the battery you will use to replace the one that burnt out hasn't even been made yet.
Thats because they are fundamentally different sights. Aimpoints use LEDs and EOTechs use laser diodes. Of course a laser isnt going to match a LEDs power consumption, but there are many other advantages to the laser...mainly the infinitely focused rectile and the parallax-free sight picture (thats pretty important for engagements 25-100 yards).

It should also be noted that aimpoint is still using the same technology from 20 years ago. They are just fancy reflex sights, EOTechs are in a whole different ballpark. And its not like one day out of the blue an eotech wont turn on. It has pretty good battery life and it has built in battery indicators. A $2 battery isnt a deciding factor in my choice of sights

I'll put it this way, I went to war twice with an eotech, and I'd do it again. The only sight that I would take over an eotech is an ACOG (which is 3x the price)
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Old 04-16-2012, 06:03 PM
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Default Re: Best CQB sight for under $400?

Quote:
Originally Posted by roasted View Post
Thats because they are fundamentally different sights. Aimpoints use LEDs and EOTechs use laser diodes. Of course a laser isnt going to match a LEDs power consumption, but there are many other advantages to the laser...mainly the infinitely focused rectile and the parallax-free sight picture (thats pretty important for engagements 25-100 yards).

It should also be noted that aimpoint is still using the same technology from 20 years ago. They are just fancy reflex sights, EOTechs are in a whole different ballpark. And its not like one day out of the blue an eotech wont turn on. It has pretty good battery life and it has built in battery indicators. A $2 battery isnt a deciding factor in my choice of sights

I'll put it this way, I went to war twice with an eotech, and I'd do it again. The only sight that I would take over an eotech is an ACOG (which is 3x the price)
Not from my experience.
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Old 04-16-2012, 06:22 PM
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Default Re: Best CQB sight for under $400?

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Not from my experience.
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Old 04-16-2012, 08:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Infrared View Post
These guys are right so far, but allow me to present a really cheap option: the Sightmark QD Ultra. It's basically an EOTech clone, but costs only about $75-100. It has 4 reticles, is decently bright and will be adequate for pretty much any recreational needs. Mind you, it will not be as durable or have the battery life of better sights, but as long as you don't plan on throwing it against the wall, it'll be fine. Holds zero well too. I got mine for Xmas and I am pretty happy with it. Just another option
On that note, I'd also like to talk about another cheaper option than a EOTech or Aimpoint. I looked into just about every sight in the $120-$200 range, looking at all the customer reviews on opticsplanet.net, eventually deciding on the Vortex Strikefire. It is pretty much a Aimpoint clone (like that Sightmark is to the EOTech) with different controls. Vortex also makes a Aimpoint Micro clone called the Sparc, but the Strikefire has a better adjustment graduation (.5moa instead of 1moa) and somewhat better reviews. They are both shockproof, waterproof, fogproof, have 2moa dots, are rated for .357 H&H magnum at 1000rds, and have a battery life around that of a EOTech.

I really like the Strikefire I got, its real solid, has easy controls, and holds zero great. The only complaint I have is that the brightness settings are rather bright, so I end up using just the lowest 2-3 settings usually. It is not an issue though, if I had to aim towards the sun or something its nice to know the dot can get that bright. People complain that the sight is too easy to turn on accidentally, but I've never had a problem with this and there is a 6hr auto-off anyways. I'd recommend it if you are looking into cheaper options. I will probably still buy a EOTech someday but unless I'm going to war, I'd still trust my shit using the Strikefire.

If you are mounting on a AR, you can also get iron sight co-witnessing with the Strikefire if you order it with the high mount: http://www.opticsplanet.net/vortex-riflescope-sfrd.html
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Old 04-16-2012, 09:14 PM
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Default Re: Best CQB sight for under $400?

Quote:
Originally Posted by roasted View Post
Haven't used that one. Hence "Not from my experience". Not my experience with some silly model you yanks use, but from my experience with the best motherfucker there is.
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Old 04-16-2012, 09:31 PM
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Default Re: Best CQB sight for under $400?

what model do you have experience with? From what I can tell from their website, pretty much everything they make is a reflex
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Old 04-17-2012, 07:37 PM
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Default Re: Best CQB sight for under $400?

The A2 ghost ring sighting device is the best under 500 USD sighting option out there imo that i have experience with. If i'm going to be putting fast acquire sights on my weapon, i'm going to spend a little bit of money and get an aimpoint.

I've never used the Aimpoint Patrol Rifle Optic Red Dot Sight, but it costs 400 dollars and it might be good. I like all of their stuff i have used.
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Old 04-17-2012, 10:28 PM
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Default Re: Best CQB sight for under $400?

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Originally Posted by p6867 View Post
The A2 ghost ring sighting device is the best under 500 USD sighting option out there imo that i have experience with. If i'm going to be putting fast acquire sights on my weapon, i'm going to spend a little bit of money and get an aimpoint.

I've never used the Aimpoint Patrol Rifle Optic Red Dot Sight, but it costs 400 dollars and it might be good. I like all of their stuff i have used.
Aimpoint PRO is pretty much an M2 (M68 CCO, prior to the new AA battery M68) except the PRO has a 2MOA dot instead of the 4MOA dot that the M2 had.

Other than the AA battery Aimpoint M4 and the Micro series, all of the 30mm tube model are extremely similar.
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Old 04-18-2012, 03:35 AM
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Default Re: Best CQB sight for under $400?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.56 SS109 View Post
Aimpoint PRO is pretty much an M2 (M68 CCO, prior to the new AA battery M68) except the PRO has a 2MOA dot instead of the 4MOA dot that the M2 had.

Other than the AA battery Aimpoint M4 and the Micro series, all of the 30mm tube model are extremely similar.
In that case, this is a boss sighting device for the money
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Old 04-18-2012, 05:22 AM
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Default Re: Best CQB sight for under $400?

Also, miz, you're going to want to think about getting a good back up iron sight (especially if you choose an EOTech).

Two points to consider would be:

-Fixed or folding rear sight.

-Lower 1/3rd or absolute cowitness.


If you want a fixed rear sight (LaRue LT103 or DD A1.5) you almost have to go with lower 1/3rd cowitness to avoid a cluttered sight picture. Lower 1/3rd basically means you can get a full iron sight picture in the lower third of your optic's lens.

Folding can obviously remove a cluttered sight picture when using a mount that gives absolute cowitness as the rear sight can simply be folded out of the way. Absolute cowitness means you get a full iron sight picture through the center of the optic's lens.

Probably the best folding rear sight would be something made by ARMS. They have several different sights with different click values and same plane apertures so if you go with folding you can pick the one that works for you.

I like lower 1/3rd cowitness because it allows me to instantly use my iron sights by just lowering my head a bit.

Here is my Colt 6920 with an Aimpoint ML3 in a mount set up for lower 1/3rd cowitness with a fixed LaRue rear sight (excuse the poor quality photos).

Typical sight picture when using the red dot:



View through irons set for lower 1/3rd cowitness:

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  #26  
Old 04-20-2012, 01:56 AM
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Default Re: Best CQB sight for under $400?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.56 SS109 View Post
Also, miz, you're going to want to think about getting a good back up iron sight (especially if you choose an EOTech).

Two points to consider would be:

-Fixed or folding rear sight.

-Lower 1/3rd or absolute cowitness.


If you want a fixed rear sight (LaRue LT103 or DD A1.5) you almost have to go with lower 1/3rd cowitness to avoid a cluttered sight picture. Lower 1/3rd basically means you can get a full iron sight picture in the lower third of your optic's lens.

Folding can obviously remove a cluttered sight picture when using a mount that gives absolute cowitness as the rear sight can simply be folded out of the way. Absolute cowitness means you get a full iron sight picture through the center of the optic's lens.

Probably the best folding rear sight would be something made by ARMS. They have several different sights with different click values and same plane apertures so if you go with folding you can pick the one that works for you.

I like lower 1/3rd cowitness because it allows me to instantly use my iron sights by just lowering my head a bit.

Here is my Colt 6920 with an Aimpoint ML3 in a mount set up for lower 1/3rd cowitness with a fixed LaRue rear sight (excuse the poor quality photos).

Typical sight picture when using the red dot:



View through irons set for lower 1/3rd cowitness:

Thanks 5.56, and thanks everybody for the input!
My gun has a BMP / HK93 stamped receiver with a hk drum rear sight welded on, the front sight is an hk ringed post which is welded on the barrel. I'm using a Stanag scope mount which allows use of the stock irons, but puts the scope up above them by about by about an inch an a half, so co-witnessing would be kinda out of the question.
I don't have any pics yet but it looks like this - kinda like an MP5 on steroids, but with a stanag mount.
I tried an Eotech last Saturday at the range and I liked it, but it seemed like the parallax was about an 3/4 of an inch off at 25 to 50 yds, maybe it was just me bouncing off the learning curve.
One of the rangemasters where I shoot has an Aimpoint CompC3 and he said I could try it on his gun (an A2) this weekend. Is there a noticeable parallax on Aimpoints at short range (25yds)? Main reason I ask is that my scope mount is pretty high above the barrel.
Reliability is a real consideration for me, so I'm looking forward to trying the Aimpoint.
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Old 04-20-2012, 04:05 AM
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Default Re: Best CQB sight for under $400?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mizled View Post
Thanks 5.56, and thanks everybody for the input!
My gun has a BMP / HK93 stamped receiver with a hk drum rear sight welded on, the front sight is an hk ringed post which is welded on the barrel. I'm using a Stanag scope mount which allows use of the stock irons, but puts the scope up above them by about by about an inch an a half, so co-witnessing would be kinda out of the question.
I don't have any pics yet but it looks like this - kinda like an MP5 on steroids, but with a stanag mount.
I tried an Eotech last Saturday at the range and I liked it, but it seemed like the parallax was about an 3/4 of an inch off at 25 to 50 yds, maybe it was just me bouncing off the learning curve.
One of the rangemasters where I shoot has an Aimpoint CompC3 and he said I could try it on his gun (an A2) this weekend. Is there a noticeable parallax on Aimpoints at short range (25yds)? Main reason I ask is that my scope mount is pretty high above the barrel.
Reliability is a real consideration for me, so I'm looking forward to trying the Aimpoint.
For that scope mount and Aimpoint PRO mount without the spacer should be just right.

I have shot my rifle 3 feet in front of me and sideways with the Aimpoint and made center hits, I have not noticed any parallax.

I have not noticed any parallax with EOTechs either, so I am betting there is a learning curve you need to get used to.
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Old 05-05-2012, 12:52 AM
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Default Re: Best CQB sight for under $400?



Got a real good deal ($250.00) on a used Eotech - I'm a sucker for sales.
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  #29  
Old 05-05-2012, 05:34 AM
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Default Re: Best CQB sight for under $400?

I don't get it. For indoor instinctive shooting with open sights is really fast, and electronic sights have a glow on them which can give you away at night.

Also the dots are too big for good accuracy at range.
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Old 05-05-2012, 11:18 PM
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Default Re: Best CQB sight for under $400?

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I don't get it. For indoor instinctive shooting with open sights is really fast, and electronic sights have a glow on them which can give you away at night.

Also the dots are too big for good accuracy at range.
None of this is true.

Any reflex sight by the "Big 3" will not exhibit any "glow" that will give you away and the dots are not too large to accomplish the job they are made to do. A 4MOA Aimpoint dot is no larger than the width of most front sight blades and EOTechs have a 1MOA center dot.

Red dot sights significantly increase hit probability in CQB and blow irons out of the water in low light.

There is not one modern firearms training doctrine that teaches instinctive shooting as a viable method, take your knowledge of red dot sights and CQB doctrine back to 1985 where it belongs.
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  #31  
Old 05-06-2012, 12:36 AM
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Default Re: Best CQB sight for under $400?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.56 SS109 View Post
None of this is true.

Any reflex sight by the "Big 3" will not exhibit any "glow" that will give you away and the dots are not too large to accomplish the job they are made to do. A 4MOA Aimpoint dot is no larger than the width of most front sight blades and EOTechs have a 1MOA center dot.

Red dot sights significantly increase hit probability in CQB and blow irons out of the water in low light.

There is not one modern firearms training doctrine that teaches instinctive shooting as a viable method, take your knowledge of red dot sights and CQB doctrine back to 1985 where it belongs.
The glow will give you away and wreck the cones in your eyes for low light conditions.

Instinctive shooting is still a viable method.

Red dots are slow for CQB.

That's all the information you're getting from me on that topic.
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  #32  
Old 05-06-2012, 12:55 AM
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Default Re: Best CQB sight for under $400?

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That's all the information you're getting from me on that topic.
I am thankful for that because I would hate for W&C regulars to have to waste their time reading posts from people who have absolutely no idea what they are talking about.
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Old 05-06-2012, 01:01 AM
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Default Re: Best CQB sight for under $400?

So did you ever live on a military base and learn how to clear rooms from your parents who were military trained?

Yeah, I am definitely never helping you.
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Old 05-06-2012, 02:32 AM
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Default Re: Best CQB sight for under $400?

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Originally Posted by tuer502gt View Post
So did you ever live on a military base and learn how to clear rooms from your parents who were military trained?

Yeah, I am definitely never helping you.
Bro, you have no training, no knowledge and obviously you never used or held an EOTech or Aimpoint sight before. EOTech and Aimpoints are faster and more accurate than iron sights. Both have adjustable brightness. For an indoor CQB gun, the brightness is always going to be quiet dim. I keep my EOTech very dim and the only time I have to adjust it is when I go outside on a bright day.

You "dont get" these sights because you've never used one. There are reasons why every elite police and military force use these sights instead of iron sights...
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Old 05-06-2012, 02:42 AM
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Default Re: Best CQB sight for under $400?

They don't use them at night. And I know that for a fact.

And they're not faster.

It's over.
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Old 05-06-2012, 11:02 AM
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Default Re: Best CQB sight for under $400?

You've made it very obvious that you've never used or owned any of these scopes, so just keep your opinion to yourself.

Both the EOTech and Aimpoints are huge improvements over iron sights, and thats why they are so popular. People do use them at night; I know this because I used one at night when I was in the army. All legit combat sights are NV compatible and have very low brightness settings if you want to use them w/o NV. Pretty much every SF soldier uses either an Aimpoint, EOTech, or Trijicon.

They are faster and more accurate; and thats the reason why competitive shooters use them in USPSA and other competitions. Look at the open division for USPSA, everyone uses a holo or relfex. They are superior to iron sights.

Your anecdote about your parents is either a lie, or your parents were shitty P.O.G. soldiers that completed basic and never touched a gun again.
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Old 05-06-2012, 11:28 AM
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Default Re: Best CQB sight for under $400?

You have absolutely no idea who you are talking about in regards to my parents, nor do you know what I've used.

Be extremely careful.

Also, if they glow a little bit to the naked eye, they glow a lot under Ninox.

Your military training should tell you that.

Although I swear you wrote prior that you are a young person who uses the guns of older people and are trying to be a member of their community.

You are either lying now or you were then.

Once again, be extremely careful.
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Old 05-06-2012, 11:45 AM
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Default Re: Best CQB sight for under $400?

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Originally Posted by tuer502gt View Post
You have absolutely no idea who you are talking about in regards to my parents, nor do you know what I've used.

Be extremely careful.
yeah, I'm not too worried about you. A lot of your WC posts show how little you know about firearms and combat. If you play COD on X-Box thats cool, but it doesnt make you an expert on cqb. You have never actually cleared a room in a combat setting and you've never owned one of these scopes, so you have nothing to contribute.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tuer502gt View Post
Although I swear you wrote prior that you are a young person who uses the guns of older people and are trying to be a member of their community.

You are either lying now or you were then.
Go ahead and pull up those posts I made, here is the link for my posts in WC: http://www.zoklet.net/bbs/search.php?searchid=5388746 Unlike most Zoklet users I dont live in my moms basement, I pay my own bills, and I own all of my own guns. So just go ahead and quote the posts where I say I'm a "young person who uses the guns of older people"
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  #39  
Old 05-06-2012, 12:09 PM
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Default Re: Best CQB sight for under $400?

You don't have to worry about me.

You're already beginning to change.

And before I forget and go to bed,

Go. Fuck. Yourself.
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Old 05-07-2012, 01:25 AM
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Thumbs Up Re: Best CQB sight for under $400?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tuer502gt View Post
The glow will give you away and wreck the cones in your eyes for low light conditions.

Instinctive shooting is still a viable method.

Red dots are slow for CQB.

That's all the information you're getting from me on that topic.
Dude, I've got to thank you.

Everyone else in this thread was too busy posting useful, pertinent, and helpful information to bother pointing out the imminent danger to to my cones that a CQB sight might pose.

Danke' - fer sure.
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