Men want their own space, women...

[1983]

Originally Posted by crazzyass

Get me some stats on those issues

Just did a quick search so if someone wants to go more elaborate go for it.

False reporting
Main article: False accusation of rape

FBI reports consistently put the number of "unfounded" rape accusations around 8%.[8] However, "unfounded" is not synonymous with "false" allegation.[9] The largest study, published in 2005, was based on 2,643 sexual assault cases and found 8% of false reports.[10][11][12] A much criticized[13][14][15] 1994 study of 109 rape complaints made between 1978 and 1987 found 41% of false allegations.[16]

A 2006 review of studies of false reporting in the United States, New Zealand and the United Kingdom concluded:

"Two conclusions can be drawn from this review of literature on the prevalence of false rape allegations. First, many of the studies of false allegations have adopted unreliable or untested research methodologies and, so we cannot discern with any degree of certainty the actual rate of false allegations. A key component in judging the reliability of research in this area relates to the criteria used to judge an allegation to be false. Some studies use entirely unreliable criteria, while others provide only limited information on how rates are measured. The second conclusion that can be drawn from the research is that the police continue to misapply the no- crime or unfounding criteria and in so doing it would appear that some officers have fixed views and expectations about how genuine rape victims should react to their victimisation. The qualitative research also suggests that some officers continue to exhibit an unjustified scepticism of rape complainants, while others interpret such things as lack of evidence or complaint withdrawal as ‘‘proof’’ of a false allegation. Such findings suggest that there are inadequacies in police awareness of the dynamics and impact of sexual victimisation and this further reinforces the importance of training and education. However, the exact extent to which police officers incorrectly label allegations as false is difficult to discern."[14]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics

Al

[Satyr]

Sooo.. when a female commits a crime but doesn't get convicted, and a man convicts the same crime and DOES get convicted.. that's not discrimination? Stereotyping a woman is discriminating, but stereotyping a man isn't? You are okay with the fact that a woman raped a man that was mentally 7-years-old and got away with it for no other reason than being a woman?

No, there is not written rule that men are to be discriminated. It doesn't happen systematically. It's not like back in the days when black people had to sit in the back of the bus. But that doesn't mean the inequality isn't there. It's more of an inequality in moral values.

So you are also saying that the people at the top of political and economical power are men, therefore men aren't discriminated against? Because one jackass on top of the shitpile is a man, 'men' as a whole are holders of the economical/political power? President Obama is head of the US. Black people sure do have a lot of political power. He also has brown eyes. Brown-eyed people basically control the US, huh?

Actually, I think you are underestimating women yourself.

Goddamnit Tacho, I thought you were smarter than that.

[Tachosomoza]

If all of this country's laws were made by women, or Asians, or black people, or Indians, then you'd be in a position to talk about oppression by those groups against white men. It wasn't, and you aren't. What you consider discrimination or oppression against the historical privilege group are efforts to remedy the negative effects of centuries, or millennia of oppression. It's not just one jackass, it's a million of them.

A black person or woman demanding their own space to address issues that pertain to them as black people, or women is progressive, because they suffer a brutal legacy of oppression as black people, or as women. A white man, or any man for that matter demanding his own space as a man is reactionary, because he seeks to maintain his position of unjustly deserved and stolen power and privilege.

[1983]

^So you're saying since I'm white it's my fault for everything and I'm undeserving of a place of my own... I can respect some of your views but I find that's quite biased and racist.

Al

[dysik]

ok guys not sure if any of you are capable of tertiary education but in case noone has noticed there is a mens center close to the womens center in most universities around the globe....

its called the engineering department!!

truly a mens only club, here you will find a safe area for men to learn without being oppressed by a society run by women who dont want us. you will find all the joys of a male only environment with plenty of open and free minded discussion about the new diablo, minecraft, and the entire N64 franchise. opportunities to up skill include: learning to hook up a wii to the project room projectors, power-levelling with your new clan buddies and many more. most days, the fun will end with a few quiet drinks in the library, solving maths equations.



but seriously. its time for us to step up as white men in a white male dominated society and realise that it is ok for people in minority groups to take a stand for what they believe in and form groups like these in order to better themselves and others. to believe otherwise is ignorant.

its kind of like if a small child were to come up and punch you in the kneecap, you can tell that they are really trying to hurt you, but you dont get angry, you just go "awwwww cute" and walk away like the boss you are. keep doing yo thang white boys.

PS. signature relevant

[Satyr]

Originally Posted by Tachosomoza

If all of this country's laws were made by women, or Asians, or black people, or Indians, then you'd be in a position to talk about oppression by those groups against white men. It wasn't, and you aren't. What you consider discrimination or oppression against the historical privilege group are efforts to remedy the negative effects of centuries, or millennia of oppression. It's not just one jackass, it's a million of them.

Oh, I get it. So the inequal treating of men against women is to make up for all those years? Well, glad you pointed that out. No, that completely isn't wrong or anything. Furthermore, I also think the Germans should still suffer for their warcrimes. As should the Japanese.

Your argument doesn't make sense. I can't oppose inequality in our society because the laws that (arguably) make those inequalities possible were constructed by people whom I (only) share gender and race with. I can't fight against the fact that a woman was set free after raping a mentally handicapped man, purily for being a woman, because I am a white man? That is both racist and sexist.

"You can't fight against the oppression of black people, because niggers in the ghetto commit crimes".

[1983]

Originally Posted by dysik

Post

Don't know if I want to respond to the troll or not.

Al

[Tachosomoza]

Originally Posted by 1983

^So you're saying since I'm white it's my fault for everything and I'm undeserving of a place of my own... I can respect some of your views but I find that's quite biased and racist.

Al

You already have a place of your own. If you're rich, it's called Congress, corporate boardrooms, and country clubs. If you're poor, it's called the police force and the military. It's not your fault, but you can't deny that the institutions that maintain and perpetuate class oppression aren't necessarily melanin or vagina enhanced.

[Lanny]

Originally Posted by Satyr

Equality is all fine and dandy, but really, there isn't any. Whether you look at it from a female or male point of view. It goes for both genders. We are all familiar with the discrimination of women with things like the glass ceiling, and those are generally accepted as true and as something that should be fought against. Which is right.

However, what rubs me the wrong way is that most people refuse to admit that men are often discriminated just as well, and you are branded as a misogynistic swine for pointing it out. You want examples of those inequalities? Okay:

-Why is it fine to advertise a new drill for fathersday, but wrong to advertise a new mop for mothersday? Female genderroles are seen as negative, while male genderroles are still being empowered. Women don't have to stay in the kitchen, but men shouldn't be restricted to the toolshed.

-There's this story about a burglar in Russia. He snuck into a barbershop that was owned by a woman. The woman noticed the burglar, beat him up, tied him up and raped him repeatedly for a few days. I'm not sure the story is true. However, what I do know is that there are supportgroups and pages on Facebook to support this woman for her 'strong' and 'brave' actions against this man. She raped him! Can you even begin to imagine this the other way around? And don't tell me this is an exception. It wasn't one or two people that supported the Facebookgroup. Oh no.

-Here in Belgium, an elderly woman beats her husband to death with a hammer. He abused her, she couldn't take it anymore and killed him because of an 'irresistable urge'. The woman actually went free. Again, I don't see this happening the other way around. No way.

-Another case here in Belgium: a woman raped a 23-year-old mentally handicapped man. The man's mental age was about 7-years-old. The court let her go free, because "women are incapable of rape". She wasn't even found guilty of sexual assault, because she sent sexual sms's to the man, so he could've known what would happen. REALLY?

-There's footage of a boy in a train, in England I think, who is obviously being sexually harassed by a woman. She is undressing him, and he struggles. No one in the train reacts.

I could go on. There is no equality. There just isn't.

The fathers day drill analogy is stupid, men are not required to "live in the toolshed". The idea of men being forced into handy work by their wives/girlfriends to the point of opting out of personal advancement is absolutely ridiculous.

Also you listed three cases of rape against men. Good for you for dragging up newsworthy anomalies. However I'm sure you know that macabre reaction would not have taken place were not it for the overwhelmingly man on woman dynamic of rape.

[Satyr]

Originally Posted by Tachosomoza

A black person or woman demanding their own space to address issues that pertain to them as black people, or women is progressive, because they suffer a brutal legacy of oppression as black people, or as women. A white man, or any man for that matter demanding his own space as a man is reactionary, because he seeks to maintain his position of unjustly deserved and stolen power and privilege.

So in easy to understand words, you think that men would want a men's centre, simply because women have one too? No, I genuinely think there should be a place where men too can go to if they have problems.

Why is it wrong for it to be reactionary, by the way? If men had a centre first, you can bet your ass women would be wanting one soon enough as well. And there's nothing wrong with that.

However, it's right that women get their own centres at universities because their mothers or grandmothers were oppressed (no, girls in school aren't oppressed nowadays).

Furthermore, I think it's absolute bullshit that you say a talkgroup for men would only serve to keep white men in power.

[1983]

Originally Posted by Tachosomoza

You already have a place of your own. If you're rich, it's called Congress, corporate boardrooms, and country clubs. If you're poor, it's called the police force and the military.

I actually work construction and am currently applying my finances towards one hundred and ninety acres of farmland so I can live a self sufficient and fulfilling lifestyle.

There is no one place for anybody and as for the police they've been accepting more minorities than white people lately. I know this because I have a few white friends struggling trying to get into the force but due to gender bias they've been being denied.

Racial stereotypes are hurtful dude. Didn't history every teach you that?

Al

[Tachosomoza]

Originally Posted by Satyr

Oh, I get it. So the inequal treating of men against women is to make up for all those years? Well, glad you pointed that out. No, that completely isn't wrong or anything. Furthermore, I also think the Germans should still suffer for their warcrimes. As should the Japanese.

I can't oppose inequality in our society because the laws that (arguably) make those inequalities possible were constructed by people whom I (only) share gender and race with.

1.) There isn't any institutionalized inequal treating of men against women, O reactionary angry white male.

2.) Of course you can't, because you still want to reap the benefits from them.

[Satyr]

Originally Posted by Lanny

The fathers day drill analogy is stupid, men are not required to "live in the toolshed". The idea of men being forced into handy work by their wives/girlfriends to the point of opting out of personal advancement is absolutely ridiculous.

Also you listed three cases of rape against men. Good for you for dragging up newsworthy anomalies. However I'm sure you know that macabre reaction would not have taken place were not it for the overwhelmingly man on woman dynamic of rape.

The analogy isn't wrong. Okay, why is it expected of man that they can be the handyman if necessary, but is it wrong to expect of a woman that she knows how to do the household? I think it has a lot to do with the fact that people see cooking and cleaning as something 'lowly'. Which is a shame, since it's just as honorable as every other job out there.

I wouldn't call a Facebookgroup with thousands of people that support female on male rape an anomaly. The fact that male on female rape occurs more often doesn't make it an admirable deed when it's done the other way around.

The fact that they occur may be an anomaly, but the way it's dealt with isn't. A while back, there was this case where a woman cut off her husbands dick and threw it in a garbage disposal. Why? Because the man wanted a divorce. There was this talkshow (I forgot the name, it had Sharon Osbourne in it) and the hostesses were cracking jokes about it. They were laughing. The all-female audience was laughing at this man getting brutally mutilated. Now, let's imagine a man cutting of his wife's clitoris and tits. Can you imagine the outrage it would cause if men were to crack jokes about this on live TV?

Yes, I used rape-cases as an example. I remember these of the top of my head. The one with the mentally handicapped man was especially interesting because the woman was set free, literally because she was a woman (the law states that women can't rape, because there has to be penetration).

The woman that beat her husband to death was set free because the man, well, he was a dick. Can you imagine a man going free after killing his wife after a relationship where the man has been abused? No, you can't just kill her because she is a mean cunt.

The boy and woman in the train I found very interesting not just because the woman wasn't sentenced, but because the general public didn't do fuck to stop it. It was a fairly goodlooking lady that did it, and the comments it got were disgusting: "well, that's one lucky boy". Again, imagine a handsome man molesting and forcefully undressing a little girl in public, obviously with sexual intentions and obviously against the little girl's will. Would people say "Well, that's one lucky girl?". That shit wouldn't fly.

[dysik]

above post was a joke, learn the difference between a joke and a troll. its become like the internet synonym of cracking a funny.

Originally Posted by Tachosomoza

You already have a place of your own. If you're rich, it's called Congress, corporate boardrooms, and country clubs. If you're poor, it's called the police force and the military. It's not your fault, but you can't deny that the institutions that maintain and perpetuate class oppression aren't necessarily melanin or vagina enhanced.

firstly. i would like to point out that while you like to paint yourself as some kind of "poor-downtrodden-black-man who can like, totally relate to all the oppressed people around the globe" on this board, realistically, YOU ARE THE 1% !!! as an american citizen, you are: one of the richest humans beings on the planet, you live in a democratic society, have the right to vote in elections, have laws protecting your rights against discrimination based on your colour/gender. these are things that you take for granted. why do people in our society only ever seek to condemn us for being discriminatory? should we not be CELEBRATED as being one of the most fair and forward-thinking places in all of the world? i mean seriously, chill the fuck out.

also, your little list is fucking stupid. most white kids arent born a rockerfella or rothschild. almost none of them will make it to a corporate level, congress, or country club (do these exist outside of the simpsons?? get outside) and those who do are mostly jews (who hate other non jews anyway). the military and police are open to anyone. try harder

i say we fuck off the black engineers guild and the LGBT/feminist "dickhater" clubs. and just beuild a huge fucking UNITY CENTRE IN THE MIDDLE

[Satyr]

Originally Posted by Tachosomoza

1.) There isn't any institutionalized inequal treating of men against women, O reactionary angry white male.

2.) Of course you can't, because you still want to reap the benefits from them.

1.) Nor is there an institution that was made to systematically discriminate women against men. Not in modern times. As I said, today it's more that moral values differ a lot when dealing with different genders.

2.) Yes. I am white and male, and can therefore not be for true equality. You are black and male, therefore you can't be anything but a raping crackdealer.

You dare call yourself a communist? You, out of everyone here on this board, should know that people are divided by class, not gender nor race. There's rich blacks at the top, keeping people down. There's poor whites at the bottom, getting the shit and boots in the face.

[Tachosomoza]

Originally Posted by Satyr

You dare call yourself a communist? You, out of everyone here on this board, should know that people are divided by class, not gender nor race. There's rich blacks at the top, keeping people down. There's poor whites at the bottom, getting the shit and boots in the face.

Did I say that it isn't? Gender and race are constructions made to perpetuate class oppression, but to deny the reality of them for a lot of people is ridiculous.

[Satyr]

Oh, and the first half minute of this video is actually really appropriate in this thread:

Boondocks - Raincoat - YouTube

Boondocks - Raincoat - YouTube
Video: click to display

[Mantikore]

These dedicated groups are retarded in general. Would it not be more efficient to pool the resources into one and let any group in?

[Satyr]

Originally Posted by Tachosomoza

Did I say that it isn't? Gender and race are constructions made to perpetuate class oppression, but to deny the reality of them for a lot of people is ridiculous.

Then why the stereotyping 'white male'? Why say I can't be for equality because I'm a white male?

[Tachosomoza]

Originally Posted by Satyr

Then why the stereotyping 'white male'? Why say I can't be for equality because I'm a white male?

Because you're acting like it.

[Satyr]

Originally Posted by Mantikore

These dedicated groups are retarded in general. Would it not be more efficient to pool the resources into one and let any group in?

Exactly. But why not? Because some groups feel like they should have a group dedicated to them.

[Satyr]

Originally Posted by Tachosomoza

Because you're acting like it.

And you're acting like a nigger, trying to be the victim.

I act like a white male because I point out that inequality goes in both ways, and can therefore not be for true equality.

It's been a great discussion (and I actually mean that), but I should get off to bed.

[Tachosomoza]

Originally Posted by Satyr

And you're acting like a nigger, trying to be the victim.

I act like a white male because I point out that inequality goes in both ways, and can therefore not be for true equality.

It's been a great discussion (and I actually mean that), but I should get off to bed.

And I've pointed out that inequality against women has been and is more egregious and defined than perceived inequality committed against men, because men have historically held the power to oppress. What you perceive as inequality against men are efforts to remedy the legacy of oppression and violent patriarchy.

[The Pat-Man]

ITT misogynists and self hating whites. although if you think about it a mens studies class would learn alot more than a women studies class due to mens role in history.

[Tachosomoza]

Originally Posted by The Pat-Man

ITT misogynists and self hating whites. although if you think about it a mens studies class would learn alot more than a women studies class due to mens role in history.

Recognizing white male privilege and seeking to deconstruct/destroy it =/= self hating.

[crazzyass]

Originally Posted by The Pat-Man

ITT misogynists and self hating whites. although if you think about it a mens studies class would learn alot more than a women studies class due to mens role in history.

Regular history class IS men's history.


And I feel no hatred or guilt whatsoever. I just recognize what happened and that it's wrong, and that the continuing structure is wrong. I also continually try to shed my inherent biases and prejudices. If I didn't, then I'd have reason to be guilty.

[Mantikore]

One must remember that oppression and abuse isnt exclusive from any one gender to another. Women abuse women, and men abuse men as well. Father/son , mother/daughter , gay partners and similar relationships can often be the cause of all this anguish. It is true: men are probably more likely to be the cause of this, but it is easy to assume its always a men vs women thing. A lot of people in this thread are going on about who is doing the abusing, when they should be talking about who is getting abused.

Lol i dunno

[1983]

Thread = Butthurt

Al

[fuckbiscuit]

Originally Posted by Mantikore

One must remember that oppression and abuse isnt exclusive from any one gender to another. Women abuse women, and men abuse men as well. Father/son , mother/daughter , gay partners and similar relationships can often be the cause of all this anguish. It is true: men are probably more likely to be the cause of this, but it is easy to assume its always a men vs women thing. A lot of people in this thread are going on about who is doing the abusing, when they should be talking about who is getting abused.

Lol i dunno

They're basically trying to say because some men have misogynistic tendencies everyone with a cock should be treated as if they're out to rape the entire world with prejudice.

The guys posting on the feminist side of this argument are severely gay, acting like you give a shit about women isn't going to make their panties wet.

[Pee Vee Proots, M.D.]

You know what's sad? I think Tacho may be the most genuinely racist user on this site.

[Tachosomoza]

Originally Posted by Pee Vee Proots, M.D.

You know what's sad? I think Tacho may be the most genuinely racist user on this site.

How did you come to that conclusion?

[Snoopy]

lol first world problems

[dysik]

never thought snoop would be the voice of reason

[Pee Vee Proots, M.D.]

Originally Posted by Tachosomoza

How did you come to that conclusion?

Your posts. I read them and using my brilliant powers of deduction I've concluded you are definitely racist.

[Lanny]

Originally Posted by Satyr

The analogy isn't wrong. Okay, why is it expected of man that they can be the handyman if necessary, but is it wrong to expect of a woman that she knows how to do the household? I think it has a lot to do with the fact that people see cooking and cleaning as something 'lowly'. Which is a shame, since it's just as honorable as every other job out there.

No, it's home repair has never been a symbolic shackle. Women are oft required to perform in the feminine gender role to the point of forgoing other endeavors. The stay at home mom paradigm is the perfect example of this. Sure it may be a pain in the ass for men to fix stuff, but it doesn't deny them a career or ambitions outside of raising a family.

I wouldn't call a Facebookgroup with thousands of people that support female on male rape an anomaly. The fact that male on female rape occurs more often doesn't make it an admirable deed when it's done the other way around.

I never said it was admirable. I said the public reaction to it was caused by it being so unexpected. Do you actually think these thousands of people truly endorse women raping women? And even if they did, do you think that amounts to institutionalized discrimination?

The fact that they occur may be an anomaly, but the way it's dealt with isn't. A while back, there was this case where a woman cut off her husbands dick and threw it in a garbage disposal. Why? Because the man wanted a divorce. There was this talkshow (I forgot the name, it had Sharon Osbourne in it) and the hostesses were cracking jokes about it. They were laughing. The all-female audience was laughing at this man getting brutally mutilated. Now, let's imagine a man cutting of his wife's clitoris and tits. Can you imagine the outrage it would cause if men were to crack jokes about this on live TV?

Fine, there are some bitches in the world. That means exactly nothing in terms of the credibility of justice of the feminist movement. Not every women in the world is a feminist, not everything a women does is indicative of the feminist viewpoint.

[RadioFree]

I read the title wrong because my mouse was over the comma and thought this thread was going to be about sexing space women.



Fuck yeah.

[G-man]

Originally Posted by dysik

ok guys not sure if any of you are capable of tertiary education but in case noone has noticed there is a mens center close to the womens center in most universities around the globe....

its called the engineering department!!

truly a mens only club, here you will find a safe area for men to learn without being oppressed by a society run by women who dont want us. you will find all the joys of a male only environment with plenty of open and free minded discussion about the new diablo, minecraft, and the entire N64 franchise. opportunities to up skill include: learning to hook up a wii to the project room projectors, power-levelling with your new clan buddies and many more. most days, the fun will end with a few quiet drinks in the library, solving maths equations.



but seriously. its time for us to step up as white men in a white male dominated society and realise that it is ok for people in minority groups to take a stand for what they believe in and form groups like these in order to better themselves and others. to believe otherwise is ignorant.

its kind of like if a small child were to come up and punch you in the kneecap, you can tell that they are really trying to hurt you, but you dont get angry, you just go "awwwww cute" and walk away like the boss you are. keep doing yo thang white boys.

PS. signature relevant

Thanked For Idiocy (TM).

[Venom]

Originally Posted by Lanny

No, it's home repair has never been a symbolic shackle. Women are oft required to perform in the feminine gender role to the point of forgoing other endeavors. The stay at home mom paradigm is the perfect example of this. Sure it may be a pain in the ass for men to fix stuff, but it doesn't deny them a career or ambitions outside of raising a family.

and while women were in kitchens men were down coalmines or lots of other shitty jobs.

I don't think men should get their own mens group but then women and minorities shouldn't get them either because they're little more than bitching grounds were they can invent more ways to claim they're victims and get even more unneeded handouts.


ITT: manginas

[Michael Scott]

Bitches ruin everything

[1983]

Originally Posted by Venom

and while women were in kitchens men were down coalmines or lots of other shitty jobs.

I don't think men should get their own mens group but then women and minorities shouldn't get them either because they're little more than bitching grounds were they can invent more ways to claim they're victims and get even more unneeded handouts.


ITT: manginas

I just want a place where I can smoke a cigar drink until I do something stupid and make up my own rules and tell bullshit stories of the fish I never caught and the good looking chick I banged that was actually a fuck ugly can of smashed worms cow of a bitch.

O wait... I'm actually in the process of buying land so I can start up a private hunting club (bar). Silly me maybe I should of just stuck to being lazy and bitching.

Lazy people

Al