Living without a heartbeat.

[delysid]

http://www.popsci.com/science/articl...heart?page=all

Found this recently, it's an article about a recently designed artificial heart. Quite interesting actually, even though it's pretty long.
Anyway, my question was, what do you think about artificial organs/implants?
Is it wrong to replace failing or missing body parts?
Would you take one if you were forced into the situation or would you rather die, happy with the fact that you lived a physiologically natural life?

I have grandparents on my dads side, both of whom have had hip/knee replacements and swear by them. Yet on my mums side they stubbornly refuse to accept anything that isn't natural, my grandad (mum's side) won't even wear hearing aids (doesn't mind wearing glasses but I suppose that's different).

[crazzyass]

Originally Posted by delysid

http://www.popsci.com/science/articl...heart?page=all

Found this recently, it's an article about a recently designed artificial heart. Quite interesting actually, even though it's pretty long.
Anyway, my question was, what do you think about artificial organs/implants?
Is it wrong to replace failing or missing body parts?
Would you take one if you were forced into the situation or would you rather die, happy with the fact that you lived a physiologically natural life?

I have grandparents on my dads side, both of whom have had hip/knee replacements and swear by them. Yet on my mums side they stubbornly refuse to accept anything that isn't natural, my grandad (mum's side) won't even wear hearing aids (doesn't mind wearing glasses but I suppose that's different).

Glasses aren't different at all, really. Neither is using a car or using a hammer.

Tools and technology enhance what our bodies are capable of. The same applies to artificial body parts.

[delysid]

Originally Posted by crazzyass

Glasses aren't different at all, really. Neither is using a car or using a hammer.

Tools and technology enhance what our bodies are capable of. The same applies to artificial body parts.

I think it's more about putting things into your body that 'don't belong'. Glasses are a non invasive tool, whereas an artificial hip, you need something cutting out of you, and something new sticking in there. So to them, I think it's like cutting out a piece of yourself, and having an alien part replace it, which obviously isn't okay with some people.
Me personally, I don't give a shit, if something's breaking down, go ahead and get it replaced. I don't really count my body as being me anyway, just something I inhabit.

[crazzyass]

Originally Posted by delysid

I think it's more about putting things into your body that 'don't belong'. Glasses are a non invasive tool, whereas an artificial hip, you need something cutting out of you, and something new sticking in there. So to them, I think it's like cutting out a piece of yourself, and having an alien part replace it, which obviously isn't okay with some people.
Me personally, I don't give a shit, if something's breaking down, go ahead and get it replaced. I don't really count my body as being me anyway, just something I inhabit.

I see where they're coming from, and surgical procedures should be minimized because they're rough on the body. That said, there is no rule book on what is or isn't natural. Human ingenuity is natural, after all.

[delysid]

Originally Posted by crazzyass

That said, there is no rule book on what is or isn't natural. Human ingenuity is natural, after all.

I could say that human ingenuity is natural, and it would prove exactly what you just said.

[Winter]

What is a human? A human is water, electricity, flesh, blood, bone etc.

Fuck it. I was going to make a point but i dont know how to word it right. Basically were all matter and combining matter with other matter shouldnt matter. Who cares ifs its natural?(Besides religious idiots).

The future is nano machines, mass effect 3 synthesis and deus ex augmentations to eventually turn humans into more than humans.

We will eventually become more than gods.

In short, im all for the future of humans and tech. What does it matter if body is all robotic....my brain would still be the same.

[crazzyass]

Originally Posted by delysid

I could say that human ingenuity is natural, and it would prove exactly what you just said.

[DiStOrTiOn]

didn't dick cheney get something like this?

[delysid]

Originally Posted by Winter

...were all matter and combining matter with other matter shouldnt matter.

I lol'd.


Crazyass, what I meant about human ingenuity (IMO) being natural is that it would happen in nature regardless of how much technology we're surrounded by. Isn't that how it all started for us?

[Xlite]

I don't really enjoy the thought of having an electric divice inside me, which can go out any second due to a fault, or a shock etc..

But i guess i'l take it if i need it.

Strangely enough though, i wouldn't mind nanotechnology. Infact, i like it alot.

[anunnakiagenda.com]

No such thing as an artificial liver nowadays, only dialysis and good old liver transplants.

We have our limitations. We can only push these limitations. But then are these limitations? These are but temporary, but other limitations shall show up into our awareness as we rid of other limitations. If it weren't for limitation, scientific discovery wouldn't exist,so is scientific discovery a limitation in itself? Or shall it break through all limitations?

How about driving senescense to oblivion?

[Xlite]

Fuck the liver, that shit regrows itself even if there's only 25% left of it.
No need for an atificial liver. And even if there would be, it would most likely be too late.

[reject]

I'd replace all my organs with artificials if I could, they'd probably work better than my current ones.

[anunnakiagenda.com]

The liver isn't as regenerative as you think. Cirrhosis sure does beat liver. As for things being too late, nah, it doesn't always happen (blood/urine tests can indicate possible liver failure, but I am no doctor so research this on your own accord).

What about brain transplants? Or perhaps an artificial brain? Or just a partial replacement. Imagine how well this could serve a person with expressive aphasia.

Ethics now kick in. Is ethics a limitation?

[reject]

Only for faggots.

[anunnakiagenda.com]

So much for faggotry. Receptive aphasia sure is fun! Especially where people mistake you for a mumbling schizophrenic.

[delysid]

Brain implants would be welcomed by epileptics and narcoleptics too.

[Zanick]

Originally Posted by delysid

Brain implants would be welcomed by epileptics and narcoleptics too.

I have narcolepsy, and that would depend on whether I get a button to release the orexin as I please.

[crazzyass]

Originally Posted by delysid

I lol'd.


Crazyass, what I meant about human ingenuity (IMO) being natural is that it would happen in nature regardless of how much technology we're surrounded by. Isn't that how it all started for us?

...that's sorta what I said?

[The Pat-Man]

eh go for it.

im still waiting on putting my brain in an indestructible robot though.

[The Pat-Man]

lol one blood pressure number.


but what if you get cut, would it be an unstoppable geyser of BLOOD. also i dont imagine it would speed up under high stress

[p6867]

Keep me alive for as long as possible. I don't care if i have so many artificial parts i'm more toaster than man, keep my ass alive.

[anunnakiagenda.com]

Let's just suppose.. You fill yourself up with so many implants that you are now a robot.

By then, would you consider yourself alive?

But then let's say only a part of someone's brain messed up, a part that is essential for everyday functioning, like the pons. Let's say we could get a locked-in syndrome patient his motor functioning. Wouldn't that be nice?

As for epilepsy and narcolepsy.. We don't know the causes of both in some cases (Idiopathic), in others we can't single out a definite mechanism behind a certain subset of either. It may even be generalized, requiring quite a load of implants or worse. As for now, brain implants for both conditions seem impractical.

[DiStOrTiOn]

Originally Posted by p6867

Keep me alive for as long as possible. I don't care if i have so many artificial parts i'm more toaster than man, keep my ass alive.

people are 10x more bacteria than they are human cells

so imho, non-human parts doesn't mean shit

[Built To Last]

Our bodies are a gift from God. They are given to us rather than being chosen by us. The body is a gift from our parents, who in some religions are revered as Gods (cf. Filial Piety).

To mangle and damage this vessel--the form and shape of humanity and all that it is capable of--is a sacrilege.

[DiStOrTiOn]

Originally Posted by Built To Last

Our bodies are a gift from God. They are given to us rather than being chosen by us. The body is a gift from our parents, who in some religions are revered as Gods (cf. Filial Piety).

To mangle and damage this vessel--the form and shape of humanity and all that it is capable of--is a sacrilege.

humans came from evolution via natural and sexual selection mechanisms. Get over it

[reject]

Originally Posted by Built To Last

To mangle and damage this vessel--the form and shape of humanity and all that it is capable of--is a sacrilege.

It's not our fault the faggot ass "god" put in so many limitations.

I'd be nearly all artificial if I could. And you know what? I'd have done a better job than god. Which makes me more than god, no?

[STD]

I refer to people who believe weird shit like this as the losers of natural selection.

[DiStOrTiOn]

Originally Posted by reject

It's not our fault the faggot ass "god" put in so many limitations.

I'd be nearly all artificial if I could. And you know what? I'd have done a better job than god. Which makes me more than god, no?

what kind of stupid ass god would turn off the gene for endogenous vitamic c production in humans?


nigger god, that's who

[Mantikore]

Link doesnt work for me

When I clicked this thread, i thought it would actually be about some sort of yoga style meditation shit about controlling heartbeat, and was just about to post a link to the beatless artificial heart as a joke. I guess jokes on me. However, I did do a class about organ prosthesis design and this was one of the things we covered. There is no heart beat, but there is someone of a clicky sound, often loud enough to be audible when the room is quiet. Also, it is difficult to control blood rates of blood flow when it needs to be controlled.

Originally Posted by anunnakiagenda.com

No such thing as an artificial liver nowadays, only dialysis and good old liver transplants.

Originally Posted by Xlite

Fuck the liver, that shit regrows itself even if there's only 25% left of it.
No need for an atificial liver. And even if there would be, it would most likely be too late.

As mentioned, the liver does regenerate from trauma, but not when you get stuff like cirrhosis. With this being said however, there is research into tissue engineering that may provide a solution. Basically, its cell encapsulation. You basically get the needed cells (hepatic cells in this case), and coat it in a polymer that is porous enough to let in glucose and oxygen, but not porous enough to let in antibodies and other immune cells. This allows it to operate without getting killed by the immune system. There have been instances where you can get cells from a different animal altogether and it would still work. Eg. Islet cells (which makes insulin) have been isolated in pigs, coated in an alginate and chitosan based hydrogels (a polymer), and implanted in the renal capsule (which by the way, is no where near its home pancreas, just has to be near a blood supply), and we can see an improvement in mice with type 1 diabetes. However, you cant really encapsulate a whole organ, just the select cells, and you cant really have too many of them, given the required size, but things like hepatic cells in the liver and the insulin making islet cells dont need a large number for you to survive.

Im pretty sure theres a wiki article on cell encapsulation.

Originally Posted by Built To Last

Our bodies are a gift from God. They are given to us rather than being chosen by us. The body is a gift from our parents, who in some religions are revered as Gods (cf. Filial Piety).

To mangle and damage this vessel--the form and shape of humanity and all that it is capable of--is a sacrilege.

"God" also gave us the intelligence and creativity to overcome our problems.