If you haven't seen it yet, close this page. Seriously.
You will want to kick yourself in the nuts if you decide to open the spoiler.
I don't know where to start.
Awesome beginning. Jacob and the Dark Dude on the beach, awaiting the Black Rock. So apparently it is all a game between them. A game about the nature of man.
Also the statue: I am pretty sure now, that it is Taweret. http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/taweret.htm
Not only it matches the sideview we got, but it also makes sense with her being the goddess of maternity and childbirth. As we all know, no childbirth on the island. This could be linked to the current state of the statue.
Locke not being Locke, but the Dark Dude this whole season. Holy crap!
Ben killing(?) Jacob.
And of course, Juliet detonating the Bomb. Thus maybe changing the future.
I personally feel the Statue is the god Sobek - the crocodile head is a big tip off, and besides it would seem a little more in tune with Jacob/creator etc, etc. But - was that REALLY the Black Rock, off in the distance? If so, how did it end up so far inland? And - even better, is RICHARD ALPERT on it!?
What is the loop-hole they're talking about? Have they all gone through those save events before? Man..that was EPIC. Just, pure EPIC.
I just assumed that the ship was the Black Rock. And quite frankly, it would be stupid to introduce another ship in the same timeframe without having dealt with the Black Rock. How it ended up in the middle of the island remains to be seen of course.
I thought that the loophole was meant as an exception to the rules. Apparently the Dark Guy can't kill Jacob because of a rule or a law. The loophole being that he can convince someone else to do it.
Okay, Payne, so - wadda ya say - Richard is on the Black Rock? That's what I believe. Richard also made the comment to the fake John Locke "I am.....this way because of Him." Now that Jacob's dead, does that mean Richard will start to age?
Jacob's Enemy also made a hint at how "badly" he wanted to kill Jacob. Has this been a feud going on between these two men? I take it they are ageless as well. If Jacob made Alpert ageless - how is he able to transfer such a gift?
Also, the whole "you brought them here to prove me wrong" (Jacob's enemy saying that to Jacob) How is it that Jacob has the power to manipulate events in such an according manner?
And - even STRANGER - what did Jacob mean by "They're coming." Is that a reference to Bram and Ilana's people - or a reference to the Oceanic 6 being "flashed" back to 2008? Discuss, good sir! Discuss!
Actually I don't think that Richard was an the Black Rock. Many people seem to roll with that theory, but many people (including myself) thought that Jacob would have been the captain of the Black Rock. And see how well that turned out On the other hand: in the last episode "Follow the Leader" we have seen Richard working on a ship in a bottle. This could be a hint that he actually was on the Black Rock. But I don't buy it yet.
I would like Richard to be really ancient. I wouldn't be too impressed if he was from the 18th century. That's just not old enough. Also he looks kinda oriental, so I would like him to be an egyptian who has maybe actually seen the temple and the statue being built. This would also make for an excellent flashback in the last season.
As for Jacob and his enemy I'm not even sure that they are people. Maybe they are some manifestations of two opposing forces. There is just too much magical stuff going on. Jacob teleporting around time and space to visit the Oceanic Six, Jacob being ageless, Jacob being able to bring people to the island, Jacobs enemy taking the form of Locke for extended amounts of time ... So my guess is, they aren't even human, at least not anymore. And there are no hints whatsoever who or what they really are. Speculation about them is pointless at this point I think.
Pretty much the same thing could be said about Jacob's last(?) words. Although I like your take that he meant the Losties who were with Dharma flashing back to 2008.
Oh, Franklin - I like you more and more by the second. I too would like Richard to be older than the Black Rock. He is by far the most captivating and interesting character. We know so little about him.
I just hope that once more of Alpert's backround is revealed, that it doesn't ruin his mystique and intrigue. But, I have faith in the writers. They have brought us this far and have yet to disappoint.
I truly hope your theory on him being older than the Black Rock is correct. I've settled for him, perhaps being on the Black Rock. Although, him being referred to as "Ricardas" (sp?) by Ilana in Vulgar Latin is perhaps a hint, that he predates the Black Rock by many, many, many centuries. I hope he doesn't start aging now that Jacob is dead (if indeed, he really is "dead"). I love Alpert. If I was on the Island, I would follow Richard to the bitter end, no questions asked.
PS - I hope you don't mind discussing this with me. You, Fish and Monkmaster are the few people who understand and remember the complex dynamics of "Lost". Most of the people I know that watch it have a very shallow understanding of the show, so, it's good to find a few people who have a....how shall I say......more in depth understanding of the events that transpire. I hope I don't come off as a simpleton/shallow. You must tell me if I do.
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NO BLACKS ALLOWED!
Last edited by Fournaridis; 05-14-2009 at 02:51 PM.
Why would I? Actually I think zoklet is one of the best places on the net to discuss Lost, although (or because?) we are so few here.
I sometimes read the ABC forum on Lost, but I don't participate there. Those people are a little crazy if you ask me. They will buy any theory however far out it may be. But interesting food for thought sometimes. ABC forum
Also great: Lostpedia
I like that they keep track of the Unanswered Questions. Very useful.
I was rather pleased with myself when my theory of Locke not being able to kill Jacob came true. Not only could Dark Dude (Esau, as he is affectionately called)/Locke not kill Jacob, but Locke himself couldn't kill Jacob (being dead and all).
Also, Juliette's last words: "Come on, you son of a bitch!", were also restated by me, directed at my TV screen, when the ending title came up. What an ending.
The sea looked relatively calm when Esau and Jacob were conversing. How does the Black Rock shipwreck?
I picked up on Sebek right away, the god's importance with war and wisdom may allude to what Esau (war) and Jacob (wisdom) actually are.
The most burning question I have is 'what is the loophole'? Gods can't kill Gods? I gotta read more of that theory wiki.
Esau said to Jacob "Do you have any idea how badly I want to kill you?" to which, Jacob responded with "Yes."
I couldn't help but shake the feeling that they almost lived through that before, as if they are in a time loop, and the "loop hole" Esau is referring to is something/chain of events that finally breaks the time loop. It's a little outlandish and I'm not going to give it much thought, because I feel it's far, far to unsubstantiated.
And, yes - how did the Black Rock end up so far inland? Esau accuses Jacob of "bringing them here". Perhaps Jacob had something to do with the Black Rock's final resting place?
Also, does anyone here know what Richard said in response to the question Ilana posed (What lies in the shadow of the Statue?) I believe it was in Latin, but I can't be sure. I'll try to see if anyone has gotten to the bottom of it yet.
For the record : Please, please, please don't make it so Richard starts to age/die because Jacob is dead. I wouldn't know what to do with myself if they got rid of Richard Alpert.
EDIT : I love how Sawyer finally took out all his anger on Jack for ruining the peaceful life they had with the Dharma Initiative. Awesome scene, followed by an even more gut wrenching one.
But - the opening scene of that episode with Jacob and Esau completely blew me away. I feel that tops all other season finales. That was simply breathtaking and amazing.
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NO BLACKS ALLOWED!
Last edited by Fournaridis; 05-14-2009 at 05:56 PM.
Also, does anyone here know what Richard said in response to the question Ilana posed (What lies in the shadow of the Statue?) I believe it was in Latin, but I can't be sure. I'll try to see if anyone has gotten to the bottom of it yet.
From Lostpedia: "When Ilana later poses the question to Richard on the main island, he responds "Ille qui nos omnes servabit," Latin for "He who shall protect/save us all." Jacob lives in a chamber beneath the statue with a skylight— literally in the shadow of the statue."
Also: I am not so sure that the Dark One is Esau. It is quite a popular theory on Lostpedia, but where is the evidence that Jacob is the biblical Jacob? First of all, the biblical Jacob died and was publically burried in a huge funeral. No account of him being ageless or disappearing before his death.
The only thing I can think of, that would kinda link Jacob to religious themes is the line "God loves you as he loved Jacob". Remember the slide show the Others used to torture Karl, Alexandra's boyfriend? It came up there. That's it.
I don't believe he's the actual biblical Jacob, or that the Enemy is the biblical Esau, I just think that was a fan name that fits perfectly. I believe it's more symbolic - and isn't supposed to be literally be interpreted as Jacob and Esau from the Bible.
I don't believe he's the actual biblical Jacob, or that the Enemy is the biblical Esau, I just think that was a fan name that fits perfectly. I believe it's more symbolic - and isn't supposed to be literally be interpreted as Jacob and Esau from the Bible.
Oh, okay.
Maybe I am overreacting because I can't understand why Lostpedia lists random facts about the biblical Jacob. There are very few reasons to do so at this point. Just a few names (Jacob, Aaron) and the "God loves you as he loved Jacob" line. http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Jaco...cal_references
And, yes - how did the Black Rock end up so far inland? Esau accuses Jacob of "bringing them here". Perhaps Jacob had something to do with the Black Rock's final resting place?
Remember that cryptic line, when someone asked how they would move the bomb to where they needed it? "the same way we brought it down here" I believe was the approximate answer...which was never elaborated on. I'd be interested to know how anyone could move a 20 ton bomb into the tunnels, as I'm sure it's the same way that one might throw a ship onto a mountain...
Season Finale - The Incident [spoilers]
On the other hand: in the last episode "Follow the Leader" we have seen Richard working on a ship in a bottle. This could be a hint that he actually was on the Black Rock. But I don't buy it yet.
Re: Season Finale - The Incident [spoilers]
