Something for Christians to consider

[talonner]

Here's some things that might get you thinking:

Jesus said he was God, he also said he was the son of MAN, according to the Bible. That would imply man is God, or perhaps not....

Why would Jesus come as a savior, to get nailed to a cross and then say something along the lines of, "Forgive them father, they know not what they have done."?

Why would he then rise from the dead, only to leave the planet he was supposed to be saving and be king of?

Then we have the trinity Father (implying God), Son (implying Jesus) and the Holy Spirit/Ghost (implying something else). Apparently it is fine to blasphemy God or Jesus, but not this third entity, the Holy Spirit/Ghost. Previously there was just one God to worship. Now, that would imply focusing spiritual energy towards Jesus and this third entity, at the expense of God, eg God is now only getting 1/3 of the spiritual energy he is supposed to be getting, whereas Jesus and this other entity are getting 1/3 each, or 2/3. So these two new entities which are to be prayed to are receiving more spiritual energy via prayer than God is.

We also have veneration of saints and others, such as Mary (his mother) in varying branches of Christianity. This is not supposed to happen.

Christians are supposed to believe in various supernatural elements, as written in the Bible. Things such as psychic healing are mentioned in the Bible (Jesus is alleged to have partaken in such acts), however dark arts are not mentioned so much. If someone partakes in such metaphysical things they are often called a witch or heretic by varying branches of Christian philosophy, and not to do it, it is bad.

However, in the Bible, Jesus says something along the lines of if you are cursed to bless the person who has cursed you, that is if someone directs negative spiritual energy towards yourself, to respond to that by giving them positive spiritual energy. Why?

Jesus also wrote of turning the other cheek in regards to what appears to be physical encounters, yet towards the end when he was being pursued by authorities, he told his followers to arm up and prepare to fight, something along the lines of "If you have no sword, sell your cloak and buy one.". That is a direct contradiction of the example of a 'perfect' life he was supposed to have lived.

I personally have no disagreement with self defence (perhaps sometimes even in a proactive role), however Jesus appears to, and yet would tell his followers to take up weapons, which appears rather hypocritical on the part of Jesus.

Another thing to consider is that according to mainstream accepted Christian philosophy and thought, Satan (or what have you) is in control of the world. Jesus wanted to be in control of the world, this planet, and turn it in to his kingdom, rather than perhaps the idea of Heaven to reside in, he wanted to stay on this physical plane/realm for his kingdom, and it would appear he coveted such things as gold, precious stones, jewellry, vast amounts of food, armies, women etc. He didn't want to go to Heaven, it would appear.

And he also, at least in Christian teachings, is a part of the God head, which is now a trinity, with God receiving worship at a rate less than that of the combined Jesus and mysterious third force.

Do you not think that telling his followers to turn the other cheek, and then telling them to arm up when he was being pursued to be killed is hypocritical in the purest sense of the word? Would that mean his teachings are direct contradictions of each other, not discussing interpretations by others not him here, but the teachings he himself taught, not church liturgy or mass interpretations, are wrong?

What about directing positive spiritual energy towards those who direct negative spiritual energy towards you? How absurd is that? Bless those who curse you?

However, it is not unreasonable to suggest that the Bible has been altered or changed over the years.

That does not mean that what has been written here is invalid.

[M. Samuel Chevalier]

I stopped reading when I got to

Talonner

[Fuck the FBI]

Originally Posted by Samsonite!

I stopped reading when I got to

winnar!

[Built To Last]

Your post was...shall I say, incoherent. I answered all that I saw as serious questions. I'd also like to note that I AM NOT A CHRISTIAN.

Originally Posted by talonner

Jesus said he was God, he also said he was the son of MAN, according to the Bible. That would imply man is God, or perhaps not....

So, because cows are mammals, and I'm a mammal, does that make me a cow?

Then we have the trinity Father (implying God), Son (implying Jesus) and the Holy Spirit/Ghost (implying something else). Apparently it is fine to blasphemy God or Jesus, but not this third entity, the Holy Spirit/Ghost. Previously there was just one God to worship. Now, that would imply focusing spiritual energy towards Jesus and this third entity, at the expense of God, eg God is now only getting 1/3 of the spiritual energy he is supposed to be getting, whereas Jesus and this other entity are getting 1/3 each, or 2/3. So these two new entities which are to be prayed to are receiving more spiritual energy via prayer than God is.

One aspect of the Catholic church are the Mysteries. Mysteries are things the Catholic church holds to be true, but are beyond human understanding. The Holy Trinity is one of them.

We also have veneration of saints and others, such as Mary (his mother) in varying branches of Christianity. This is not supposed to happen.

Why not? Saints are transformed by the grace of Christ and reside in full union with God in heaven.

Christians are supposed to believe in various supernatural elements, as written in the Bible. Things such as psychic healing are mentioned in the Bible (Jesus is alleged to have partaken in such acts), however dark arts are not mentioned so much. If someone partakes in such metaphysical things they are often called a witch or heretic by varying branches of Christian philosophy, and not to do it, it is bad.

Jesus did not engage in psychic healing. Jesus did heal people, as he has power over all creation and these are regarded as miracles by the catholic church.

[Aragami]

Jesus is the human embodiment of God, and the Spirit is God's... Spirit?

The rest is babble.

-Also not a christian.

[Rizzo in a box]

go read the nag hammadi library

/thread

[Fuck the FBI]

I have no determined religious denomination. I believe their is some higher power, just on the fact that there isn't really any good explanation for why the universe popped out of nowhere, but I put most of my faith in fact. God explains what science cannot.

[talonner]

Originally Posted by Fuck the FBI

I have no determined religious denomination. I believe their is some higher power, just on the fact that there isn't really any good explanation for why the universe popped out of nowhere, but I put most of my faith in fact. God explains what science cannot.

I believe in a God for sure, it is far easier to comprehend than our own existence.

Also, to the majority of the posters, it was put here as something to get you thinking, something slightly philosophical.

[talonner]

Originally Posted by Rizzo in a box

go read the nag hammadi library

/thread

I have a copy of a book titled something similar to 'The Gnostic Gospels'.

[Nachismo]

Why would Jesus come as a savior, to get nailed to a cross and then say something along the lines of, "Forgive them father, they know not what they have done."?

You should research the legend of Saint Christopher.....

I don't understand your logic about Jesus coveting some thing. This is false. Just because you can't see something doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Jesus teachings are golden.

The questions you raise are one's for anyone serious about Christianity, pursue it. Studying symbolism and christian philosophers will help you understand better......

[AdMech]

What makes you say he coveted women, gold, etc.?

[KyleKyle Bensen]

If you want some insight into how Jesus works, check out Thomas Jefferson's book on the Big J. He studied him as the ultimate philosopher and teacher. So it is a focus on his principles and morals.

If you want answers regarding Christianity then you should filter the questions that are Catholicism and Mormonism. There is a pretty big difference between them.

[talonner]

Originally Posted by Twisted_Ferret

What makes you say he coveted women, gold, etc.?

In regards to what is written in Revelation regarding his kingdom etc.

Also, earth and heaven have distinct differences, this is not heaven etc.

And he wants to rule this place as his kingdom.

[talonner]

Originally Posted by KyleKyle Bensen

If you want some insight into how Jesus works, check out Thomas Jefferson's book on the Big J. He studied him as the ultimate philosopher and teacher. So it is a focus on his principles and morals.

If you want answers regarding Christianity then you should filter the questions that are Catholicism and Mormonism. There is a pretty big difference between them.

There is more to Christianity than Mormonism and Catholicism, both of which go against teachings within the Bible.

[blondy269]

Well it looks like none of the responses so far have come from the point of view of a Christian so I'll give you my thoughts (as a Seventh Day Adventist). To keep this reply as concise as possible, I will link to other websites wherever I can rather than typing out large explanations and creating a massive wall of text.

Originally Posted by talonner

Jesus said he was God, he also said he was the son of MAN, according to the Bible. That would imply man is God, or perhaps not....

I like kurdt318's analogy regarding this line of thought. The conclusion you have come to is incorrect. See http://www.gotquestions.org/Jesus-Son-of-Man.html.

Originally Posted by talonner

Why would Jesus come as a savior, to get nailed to a cross and then say something along the lines of, "Forgive them father, they know not what they have done."?

I don't really understand this question, you may wish to elaborate on it. Jesus came as a saviour to die, and in doing so, pay the price of our sin. Dying on a cross was to fulfil Old Testament prophesies. Those who put him on this cross did not realise he was the Son of God, they did not realise they were killing the saviour that their ancestors had prophesied about. Hence, Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they don’t know what they are doing."

Originally Posted by talonner

Why would he then rise from the dead, only to leave the planet he was supposed to be saving and be king of?

He didn't leave the planet he was supposed to be saving, he left the planet because he HAD saved it. In dying for us, paying the price of our sin, he had accomplished his mission on earth.

Originally Posted by talonner

Then we have the trinity Father (implying God), Son (implying Jesus) and the Holy Spirit/Ghost (implying something else). Apparently it is fine to blasphemy God or Jesus, but not this third entity, the Holy Spirit/Ghost. Previously there was just one God to worship. Now, that would imply focusing spiritual energy towards Jesus and this third entity, at the expense of God, eg God is now only getting 1/3 of the spiritual energy he is supposed to be getting, whereas Jesus and this other entity are getting 1/3 each, or 2/3. So these two new entities which are to be prayed to are receiving more spiritual energy via prayer than God is.

Firstly, it is not "fine" to blaspheme God, Jesus or the Holy Spirit. I don't know where you got that idea from, it isn't Biblical. However, I assume you're referring to Mark 3:38-29, "I tell you the truth, all sin and blasphemy can be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven. This is a sin with eternal consequences." See http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/unpardonablesin.htm. You say that "previously there was just one God to worship." When is this "previous" time? The Bible teaches that the Trinity has always existed and always will. Jesus and the Holy Spirit did not just "come into existence" at some later time than God did, all three persons of the Trinity are eternal. On to your next point, you keep talking of "spiritual energy", a term I'm not familiar with. You say "So these two new entities which are to be prayed to are receiving more spiritual energy via prayer than God is" as if the three persons of the Trinity are all trying to get as much 'spiritual energy' from humans as they can, like it's some sort of competition between them? Do not forget that God is the creator of the Universe, bigger than our minds could ever comprehend. Do you think He needs us? He doesn't. Do you think He needs our 'spiritual energy' or our prayers? He doesn't. That isn't to say that He doesn't love us and want us to be a part of His Kingdom or that he doesn't want our prayers, but you seem to be looking at things in the wrong way.

Originally Posted by talonner

We also have veneration of saints and others, such as Mary (his mother) in varying branches of Christianity. This is not supposed to happen.

I agree with you.

Originally Posted by talonner

Christians are supposed to believe in various supernatural elements, as written in the Bible. Things such as psychic healing are mentioned in the Bible (Jesus is alleged to have partaken in such acts), however dark arts are not mentioned so much. If someone partakes in such metaphysical things they are often called a witch or heretic by varying branches of Christian philosophy, and not to do it, it is bad.

As kurdt318 said, Jesus did not engage in psychic healing. You say that "dark acts are not mentioned much", however, they certainly are mentioned quite a lot in the Bible. For that matter, the Bible warns against participating in such things as the occult, witchcraft and so on. You appear to have an incorrect definition of the term "metaphysical". It is defined as "originating not in the physical world but somewhere outside it." This includes not only things such as the occult and witchcraft, but Godly forms of spirituality. You seem to think it refers only to the former.

Originally Posted by talonner

However, in the Bible, Jesus says something along the lines of if you are cursed to bless the person who has cursed you, that is if someone directs negative spiritual energy towards yourself, to respond to that by giving them positive spiritual energy. Why?

There are two ways to interpret this text, depending on which meaning of "curse" and "bless" you think it is talking about. You seem to think it is talking about a curse as in a malevolent appeal to a demon for harm to come to somebody and a blessing as in a benevolent appeal to God for good to come to somebody. Thinking of it this way, blessing somebody who curses you would simply be doing as Christ taught, to do unto others as you would have them do unto you, to love your enemies and so on.

Originally Posted by talonner

Jesus also wrote of turning the other cheek in regards to what appears to be physical encounters, yet towards the end when he was being pursued by authorities, he told his followers to arm up and prepare to fight, something along the lines of "If you have no sword, sell your cloak and buy one.". That is a direct contradiction of the example of a 'perfect' life he was supposed to have lived. I personally have no disagreement with self defence (perhaps sometimes even in a proactive role), however Jesus appears to, and yet would tell his followers to take up weapons, which appears rather hypocritical on the part of Jesus.

See http://home.earthlink.net/~ronrhodes/qselfdefense.html.

Originally Posted by talonner

Another thing to consider is that according to mainstream accepted Christian philosophy and thought, Satan (or what have you) is in control of the world.

Satan is in control of this world to a certain extent, but his control is only temporary, and he only has some control because it has been given to him by God. See http://www.neverthirsty.org/pp/corner/read2/r00618.html.

Originally Posted by talonner

Jesus wanted to be in control of the world, this planet, and turn it in to his kingdom, rather than perhaps the idea of Heaven to reside in, he wanted to stay on this physical plane/realm for his kingdom, and it would appear he coveted such things as gold, precious stones, jewellry, vast amounts of food, armies, women etc. He didn't want to go to Heaven, it would appear.

You say that "Jesus wanted to be in control of the world", which is untrue. Ultimately, Jesus always has been in control of it. You are confusing the way that earthly kingdoms function with the way kingdoms in a spiritual sense function. He did not want to stay on earth instead of reside in Heaven, rather, earth will become Heaven. According to the Bible, this happens 1000 years after the Second Coming. I don't know what you're referring to when you say He coveted the things you mention, please provide some scriptural evidence for these claims. Jesus taught against coveting, so I don't see how you could think He covets the things you've mentioned.

Originally Posted by talonner

And he also, at least in Christian teachings, is a part of the God head, which is now a trinity, with God receiving worship at a rate less than that of the combined Jesus and mysterious third force.

You're coming back to that previous idea where you seem to think that they are in some sort of competition to receive the most worship. God is one being, composed of the three persons of the Trinity. When any person of the Trinity receives praise, they all receive praise.

Originally Posted by talonner

Do you not think that telling his followers to turn the other cheek, and then telling them to arm up when he was being pursued to be killed is hypocritical in the purest sense of the word? Would that mean his teachings are direct contradictions of each other, not discussing interpretations by others not him here, but the teachings he himself taught, not church liturgy or mass interpretations, are wrong?

No, that would not mean His teachings are direct contradictions of each other, see the link I mentioned previously regarding this point.

Originally Posted by talonner

What about directing positive spiritual energy towards those who direct negative spiritual energy towards you? How absurd is that? Bless those who curse you?

Again, this is simply obeying the teachings of Jesus. If someone curses you, the only reason you would want to curse them back is because you think that what they did was wrong. If you then do the same back to them, you're just as bad as them. Jesus says to "pray for those who hurt you," not "hurt those who hurt you."

Originally Posted by talonner

However, it is not unreasonable to suggest that the Bible has been altered or changed over the years. That does not mean that what has been written here is invalid.

Actually, there is an enormous amount of proof that the Bible has NOT been altered over time. See http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Delphi/8449/two.html and http://www.socyberty.com/Religion/Wa...ust-See.189281.

So, this response turned out to be a massive wall of text after all. Congratulations if you've managed to read through all of it without falling asleep!

[talonner]

Originally Posted by blondy269

Well it looks like none of the responses so far have come from the point of view of a Christian so I'll give you my thoughts (as a Seventh Day Adventist). To keep this reply as concise as possible, I will link to other websites wherever I can rather than typing out large explanations and creating a massive wall of text.

Thanks for the great post. I would consider myself a believer in God and a philosophical Christian.

I like kurdt318's analogy regarding this line of thought. The conclusion you have come to is incorrect. See http://www.gotquestions.org/Jesus-Son-of-Man.html.

I very strongly disagree with the analogy kurdt318 provided and I also believe the Bible is there for the individual to interpret, and not to rely on the thoughts of others who may be deceitful. After all, wasn't an offence some time ago to own or read a Bible if you weren't clergy?

I don't really understand this question, you may wish to elaborate on it. Jesus came as a saviour to die, and in doing so, pay the price of our sin. Dying on a cross was to fulfil Old Testament prophesies. Those who put him on this cross did not realise he was the Son of God, they did not realise they were killing the saviour that their ancestors had prophesied about. Hence, Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they don’t know what they are doing."

That's a very standard response, one you might get in Catholic school education.

I disagree with the whole prophecy thing. Prophecy can be akin to brainwashing and conditioning of the masses.

He didn't leave the planet he was supposed to be saving, he left the planet because he HAD saved it. In dying for us, paying the price of our sin, he had accomplished his mission on earth.

Which is why this is such a wonderful place? How has it been saved? Why does he have to return later to be king of it? Wouldn't he rather be king of heaven? Is it not recorded as Satan being in control of earth?

We can have a discussion on the Biblical God and Satan in regards to freedom and slavery and prosperity and happiness as well as what could possibly be deception if you so desire in this thread.

Firstly, it is not "fine" to blaspheme God, Jesus or the Holy Spirit. I don't know where you got that idea from, it isn't Biblical. However, I assume you're referring to Mark 3:38-29, "I tell you the truth, all sin and blasphemy can be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven. This is a sin with eternal consequences." See http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/unpardonablesin.htm.

So it is Biblical? If it can be forgiven then according to simple reasoning, it is fine in the sense of it is not major. So why is it that you can blasphemy God but not this unknown quantity of the Holy Spirit?

You say that "previously there was just one God to worship." When is this "previous" time? The Bible teaches that the Trinity has always existed and always will. Jesus and the Holy Spirit did not just "come into existence" at some later time than God did, all three persons of the Trinity are eternal.

What is the definition of God, in the Christian sense?

On to your next point, you keep talking of "spiritual energy", a term I'm not familiar with. You say "So these two new entities which are to be prayed to are receiving more spiritual energy via prayer than God is" as if the three persons of the Trinity are all trying to get as much 'spiritual energy' from humans as they can, like it's some sort of competition between them? Do not forget that God is the creator of the Universe, bigger than our minds could ever comprehend. Do you think He needs us? He doesn't. Do you think He needs our 'spiritual energy' or our prayers? He doesn't. That isn't to say that He doesn't love us and want us to be a part of His Kingdom or that he doesn't want our prayers, but you seem to be looking at things in the wrong way.

Spiritual energy, by simple reasoning and logic, it is possible to easily deduce what is meant by that. Eg, various metaphysical things are deemed 'un-Christian', that would be using spiritual energy.

I seem to be looking at things the wrong way? I think not.

I agree with you.

Exactly, they are being afforded spiritual energy that they, under Christian thought, are not really supposed to be receiving.

As kurdt318 said, Jesus did not engage in psychic healing. You say that "dark acts are not mentioned much", however, they certainly are mentioned quite a lot in the Bible. For that matter, the Bible warns against participating in such things as the occult, witchcraft and so on. You appear to have an incorrect definition of the term "metaphysical". It is defined as "originating not in the physical world but somewhere outside it." This includes not only things such as the occult and witchcraft, but Godly forms of spirituality. You seem to think it refers only to the former.

Someone who can claim to do psychic healing would be outcast and considered evil by church authorities. I would say Jesus did engage, or at least it is recorded that he did, in psychic healing.

There are two ways to interpret this text, depending on which meaning of "curse" and "bless" you think it is talking about. You seem to think it is talking about a curse as in a malevolent appeal to a demon for harm to come to somebody and a blessing as in a benevolent appeal to God for good to come to somebody. Thinking of it this way, blessing somebody who curses you would simply be doing as Christ taught, to do unto others as you would have them do unto you, to love your enemies and so on.

Do unto others, so if someone curses you, curse them back? The Bible appears to use fear conditioning to make Christians docile and subservient. Considering the Bible is a religious text that deals with such things as the metaphysical, how it is so far fetched to consider 'curse' in that sense, and 'bless' in that sense? After all, when you bless someone, are you not supposed to be sending good feelings and asking for the assistance of God when doing so? That would imply the metaphysical sense.

Satan is in control of this world to a certain extent,

Yet you also write:

You say that "Jesus wanted to be in control of the world", which is untrue. Ultimately, Jesus always has been in control of it.

Ahem.

You are confusing the way that earthly kingdoms function with the way kingdoms in a spiritual sense function.

And why is your interpretation superior to mine? You seem to be dogmatic and conventional in your approach rather than spiritual, philosophical and open minded.

He did not want to stay on earth instead of reside in Heaven, rather, earth will become Heaven.

Earth is not Heaven.

I don't know what you're referring to when you say He coveted the things you mention, please provide some scriptural evidence for these claims. Jesus taught against coveting, so I don't see how you could think He covets the things you've mentioned.

Well Jesus also taught pacifism and non violence, and also told his followers to arm up and prepare for battle. Seems like he didn't have complete faith in God. He also wants a Kingdom with gold, jewels, riches, women, armies etc. That is coveting.

You're coming back to that previous idea where you seem to think that they are in some sort of competition to receive the most worship. God is one being, composed of the three persons of the Trinity. When any person of the Trinity receives praise, they all receive praise.

And your dogmatic and indoctrinated opinion is more valid than my open minded one because? At least I can attempt to question rather than toe a line.

No, that would not mean His teachings are direct contradictions of each other, see the link I mentioned previously regarding this point.

They are direct contradictions of each other, and hypocritical.

Again, this is simply obeying the teachings of Jesus. If someone curses you, the only reason you would want to curse them back is because you think that what they did was wrong. If you then do the same back to them, you're just as bad as them. Jesus says to "pray for those who hurt you," not "hurt those who hurt you."

Right, indoctrinated pacifism and servitude.

Actually, there is an enormous amount of proof that the Bible has NOT been altered over time.

No there isn't. New books turn up often, Catholics, Mormons, Protestants, Orthodox Christians, Jehovah's Witnesses all use different bibles. And then you have Apocrypha and Gnostic Texts, Dead Sea Scrolls etc. The original Bible could have been changed mere decades after it was put out as a Christian authoritive text.

[refugee]

Originally Posted by Nachismo666

Why would Jesus come as a savior, to get nailed to a cross and then say something along the lines of, "Forgive them father, they know not what they have done."?

You should research the legend of Saint Christopher.....

I don't understand your logic about Jesus coveting some thing. This is false. Just because you can't see something doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Jesus teachings are golden.

The questions you raise are one's for anyone serious about Christianity, pursue it. Studying symbolism and christian philosophers will help you understand better......

nachismo666 my ass. better get on down to confession!!

[talonner]

Ping.

[blondy269]

Originally Posted by talonner

Thanks for the great post. I would consider myself a believer in God and a philosophical Christian.

No worries.

Originally Posted by talonner

I very strongly disagree with the analogy kurdt318 provided and I also believe the Bible is there for the individual to interpret, and not to rely on the thoughts of others who may be deceitful. After all, wasn't an offence some time ago to own or read a Bible if you weren't clergy?

Yes, it was like that at one stage. Also, just to clarify, are the things you posted originally your own thoughts and questions, or just some thoughts and questions you thought of to spark discussion?

Originally Posted by talonner

That's a very standard response, one you might get in Catholic school education.

Well, I've never been to a Catholic school and have never gone to a Catholic church. If that's a very standard response, what is an example of a more profound response?

Originally Posted by talonner

I disagree with the whole prophecy thing. Prophecy can be akin to brainwashing and conditioning of the masses.

You disagree with which aspect of prophecy? I'm interested to hear more about that thought, please elaborate.

Originally Posted by talonner

Which is why this is such a wonderful place? How has it been saved?

Well, just because the world had been saved from its deserved ending, doesn't mean it would become this wonderful place all of a sudden...
It has been saved because "the wages of sin is death." Because all have sinned, we all deserve to be dead for eternity. However, Jesus came to this world and lived a life without sinning, then took the sins of the world upon himself and paid the price of sin. The result of this is that we have the free gift of eternal life if we accept Jesus. That is how the world has been saved.

Originally Posted by talonner

Why does he have to return later to be king of it? Wouldn't he rather be king of heaven?

One reason he has to return is to fulfil prophecy, e.g. Revelation.

Originally Posted by talonner

We can have a discussion on the Biblical God and Satan in regards to freedom and slavery and prosperity and happiness as well as what could possibly be deception if you so desire in this thread.

To be honest, I don't know what you mean, but I would love to have a discussion on whatever you're talking about.

Originally Posted by talonner

So it is Biblical? If it can be forgiven then according to simple reasoning, it is fine in the sense of it is not major. So why is it that you can blasphemy God but not this unknown quantity of the Holy Spirit?

No, that's not what I meant. Just because blaspheming against the Holy Spirit is described as an unforgiveable sin, doesn't mean that blaspheming against God or Jesus is fine. That would be like saying that all sin is fine because it isn't described as unforgiveable. Sin is the reason Jesus had to come to Earth and die, carrying the weight of the world's sin. If it was fine, it wouldn't require forgiveness. Did you read the page that I linked to? It clearly explains why you can blaspheme God but not the Holy Spirit. By the way, the Holy Spirit is not an unknown quantity to me; far from it.

Originally Posted by talonner

What is the definition of God, in the Christian sense?

See http://www.verumserum.com/?p=165.

Originally Posted by talonner

Spiritual energy, by simple reasoning and logic, it is possible to easily deduce what is meant by that. Eg, various metaphysical things are deemed 'un-Christian', that would be using spiritual energy.

Okay, I thought that is what you meant, but I wanted to be sure.

Originally Posted by talonner

I seem to be looking at things the wrong way? I think not.

Well then, please explain your basis for arguing that the three persons of the Trinity are in competition to receive the most "spiritual energy", praise, worship and so on.

Originally Posted by talonner

Exactly, they are being afforded spiritual energy that they, under Christian thought, are not really supposed to be receiving.

In John 3:13, Jesus says "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven", and John 1:18 says "No one has ever seen God. But the unique One, who is himself God, is near to the Father’s heart." Therefore, I do not believe these 'saints' of the Catholic Church are "being afforded spiritual energy", because they are dead in the ground, and "the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing."

Originally Posted by talonner

Someone who can claim to do psychic healing would be outcast and considered evil by church authorities. I would say Jesus did engage, or at least it is recorded that he did, in psychic healing.

How would you define "psychic healing"? Please provide evidence from the Bible that Jesus engaged in psychic healing.

Originally Posted by talonner

Do unto others, so if someone curses you, curse them back? The Bible appears to use fear conditioning to make Christians docile and subservient. Considering the Bible is a religious text that deals with such things as the metaphysical, how it is so far fetched to consider 'curse' in that sense, and 'bless' in that sense? After all, when you bless someone, are you not supposed to be sending good feelings and asking for the assistance of God when doing so? That would imply the metaphysical sense.

The passage is Matthew 7:12, which says "Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you." Would you like someone to curse you? I don't think so, therefore, you shouldn't curse others. Would you like someone to bless you? I think you would, so you should bless others. It seems that you think the text says "do unto others what they do to you." And I never said it is farfetched to think of a 'curse' and a 'blessing' in that sense, I just said that it is one way of interpreting the passage. When I say "you seem to think..." I mean that "my understanding of your opinion on this matter is...", I don't mean it in a negative sense.

Originally Posted by talonner

(You write) "Satan is in control of this world to a certain extent," Yet you also write: "You say that "Jesus wanted to be in control of the world", which is untrue. Ultimately, Jesus always has been in control of it." Ahem.

Yes, that's right. Here's an example that might help you understand the concept. An employee of a company may be in control of the companies finances. He is in control of the company, to a certain extent. However, the boss of the company is ultimately in control of the company.

Originally Posted by talonner

And why is your interpretation superior to mine? You seem to be dogmatic and conventional in your approach rather than spiritual, philosophical and open minded.

I never said it was...Conventions are conventions for a reason, but I am open to reason and discussion. However, I'm not going to bring up profound interpretations for the sake of it: I'm merely offering my own understanding. If that happens to fall in line with conventions, so what?

Originally Posted by talonner

Earth is not Heaven.

I said "Earth will become Heaven." I did not say "Earth is Heaven." Did you just misread what I said or what? :S

Originally Posted by talonner

Well Jesus also taught pacifism and non violence, and also told his followers to arm up and prepare for battle. Seems like he didn't have complete faith in God. He also wants a Kingdom with gold, jewels, riches, women, armies etc. That is coveting.

Again, I'm wondering if you read the page that I linked to, which explains some varying interpretations of what Jesus said. Please provide evidence from the Bible to substantiate your claims that Jesus wants these things in his Kingdom and that this is coveting.

Originally Posted by talonner

And your dogmatic and indoctrinated opinion is more valid than my open minded one because? At least I can attempt to question rather than toe a line.

I'm sorry, but I just don't see how you got the idea that the three persons of the Trinity are in competition to receive the most spiritual energy. Please elaborate on this point and provide Biblical evidence.

Originally Posted by talonner

They are direct contradictions of each other, and hypocritical.

Once again, I'm not sure if you actually read the linked pages which explain that they are not contradictions of each other.

Originally Posted by talonner

Right, indoctrinated pacifism and servitude.

What? Jesus is described in Isaiah 53 as the suffering servant (this is also a part of prophecy which you say you disagree with). Jesus is also the perfect example for all of us of how we should live. You say "indoctrinated pacifism and servitude" with a very negative tone, as if we are not supposed to follow Jesus example?

Originally Posted by talonner

No there isn't. New books turn up often, Catholics, Mormons, Protestants, Orthodox Christians, Jehovah's Witnesses all use different bibles. And then you have Apocrypha and Gnostic Texts, Dead Sea Scrolls etc. The original Bible could have been changed mere decades after it was put out as a Christian authoritive text.

Well, I have never studied the variations of the Bible used by such denominations as Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses so I won't attempt to speak on their behalf. However, the Protestant, Catholic and Orthodox Bible is exactly the same except the Protestant Bible doesn't include what is called the "Apocrypha" and the Catholic Bible includes slightly less of this than the Orthodox Bible. The Bible, not including the Apocrypha, does have enormous evidence to support that it has not changed over time. The Apocrypha might also have such evidence, but this also is something I have not studied in depth so I'm not going to pretend I know for sure.

I look forward to your next reply!

[KillSwitch_J]

Originally Posted by talonner

Would that mean his teachings are direct contradictions of each other,

The entire bible is filled with one contradiction after another. Such as, Thou shalt not kill and Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live or turning the other cheek when someone wrongs you and An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.

[blondy269]

Originally Posted by KillSwitch_J

The entire bible is filled with one contradiction after another. Such as, Thou shalt not kill and Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live or turning the other cheek when someone wrongs you and An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.

Jesus says in Matthew 5:38-42, "You have heard the law that says the punishment must match the injury: ‘An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I say, do not resist an evil person! If someone slaps you on the right cheek, offer the other cheek also. If you are sued in court and your shirt is taken from you, give your coat, too. If a soldier demands that you carry his gear for a mile, carry it two miles. Give to those who ask, and don’t turn away from those who want to borrow." See http://www.harmlessasdoves.com/oldtestament.html.

[KillSwitch_J]

Originally Posted by blondy269

If a soldier demands that you carry his gear for a mile, carry it two miles.

Yeah I'm really going to go out of my way for someone that is demanding that I do something.

[talonner]

Originally Posted by blondy269

Also, just to clarify, are the things you posted originally your own thoughts and questions, or just some thoughts and questions you thought of to spark discussion?

Wouldn't that imply the same thing?

Well, I've never been to a Catholic school and have never gone to a Catholic church. If that's a very standard response, what is an example of a more profound response?

They don't give them out.

You disagree with which aspect of prophecy? I'm interested to hear more about that thought, please elaborate.

It's like someone predicts that on x day a tree will fall over. It doesn't happen so they cut the tree down to make it fall over. That isn't prophecy in the mystical sense. Fulfilling it for the sake of fulfilling it is wrong.

Well, just because the world had been saved from its deserved ending, doesn't mean it would become this wonderful place all of a sudden...
It has been saved because "the wages of sin is death." Because all have sinned, we all deserve to be dead for eternity. However, Jesus came to this world and lived a life without sinning, then took the sins of the world upon himself and paid the price of sin. The result of this is that we have the free gift of eternal life if we accept Jesus. That is how the world has been saved.

Yeah I don't completely agree with that.

One reason he has to return is to fulfil prophecy, e.g. Revelation.

Oh, right.

To be honest, I don't know what you mean, but I would love to have a discussion on whatever you're talking about.

Discuss the personalities of God and Satan as they are presented in the OT.

No, that's not what I meant. Just because blaspheming against the Holy Spirit is described as an unforgiveable sin, doesn't mean that blaspheming against God or Jesus is fine. That would be like saying that all sin is fine because it isn't described as unforgiveable. Sin is the reason Jesus had to come to Earth and die, carrying the weight of the world's sin. If it was fine, it wouldn't require forgiveness. Did you read the page that I linked to? It clearly explains why you can blaspheme God but not the Holy Spirit. By the way, the Holy Spirit is not an unknown quantity to me; far from it.

It's forgivable, that's the point. Just like how the sin of being born is forgivable.

Well then, please explain your basis for arguing that the three persons of the Trinity are in competition to receive the most "spiritual energy", praise, worship and so on.

Prior to the existence of Jesus, there was no prayer to Jesus. Now there is prayer and energy directed towards him.

In John 3:13, Jesus says "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven", and John 1:18 says "No one has ever seen God. But the unique One, who is himself God, is near to the Father’s heart." Therefore, I do not believe these 'saints' of the Catholic Church are "being afforded spiritual energy", because they are dead in the ground, and "the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing."

So now you are writing Heaven and Earth are distinctly different places, yet previously you have written Earth will become Heaven. Reminds me of that song, "Borrowed Heaven", sung by someone who is an MBE. Does the English Royal Family not claim some sort of divine right to rule due to descendancy (alleged) from Jesus? Why do they need to borrow heaven?

Are you also aware of Saints who have been recorded as levitating, that would assume they can ascend to Heaven, if it is in fact a spiritual place located within this realm.

Anyhow...

How would you define "psychic healing"? Please provide evidence from the Bible that Jesus engaged in psychic healing.

How about telling people they are healed and healing them, laying on of the hands, and after that Lourdes.

The passage is Matthew 7:12, which says "Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you." Would you like someone to curse you? I don't think so, therefore, you shouldn't curse others. Would you like someone to bless you? I think you would, so you should bless others. It seems that you think the text says "do unto others what they do to you." And I never said it is farfetched to think of a 'curse' and a 'blessing' in that sense, I just said that it is one way of interpreting the passage. When I say "you seem to think..." I mean that "my understanding of your opinion on this matter is...", I don't mean it in a negative sense.

I think you are misinterpreting what I wrote. I would not like to be cursed, however blessing those who would curse me is a bizarre act to follow, considering Jesus even got his followers to arm up with weapons capable of death and gross injury when he was being pursued in his final days.

Yes, that's right. Here's an example that might help you understand the concept. An employee of a company may be in control of the companies finances. He is in control of the company, to a certain extent. However, the boss of the company is ultimately in control of the company.

I think you are missing the point I was trying to make. I have an analysis of the Book of Revelation I will have to find.

I never said it was...Conventions are conventions for a reason, but I am open to reason and discussion. However, I'm not going to bring up profound interpretations for the sake of it: I'm merely offering my own understanding. If that happens to fall in line with conventions, so what?

Your interpretations are very indoctrinated.

I said "Earth will become Heaven." I did not say "Earth is Heaven." Did you just misread what I said or what? :S

Earth and Heaven are two different places. How can Earth become Heaven?

Again, I'm wondering if you read the page that I linked to, which explains some varying interpretations of what Jesus said. Please provide evidence from the Bible to substantiate your claims that Jesus wants these things in his Kingdom and that this is coveting.

Read Revelation.

I'm sorry, but I just don't see how you got the idea that the three persons of the Trinity are in competition to receive the most spiritual energy. Please elaborate on this point and provide Biblical evidence.

It is plain and clear to see for anyone who has a limited understanding of things spiritual how the energy has been divided.

Once again, I'm not sure if you actually read the linked pages which explain that they are not contradictions of each other.

...

What? Jesus is described in Isaiah 53 as the suffering servant (this is also a part of prophecy which you say you disagree with). Jesus is also the perfect example for all of us of how we should live. You say "indoctrinated pacifism and servitude" with a very negative tone, as if we are not supposed to follow Jesus example?

The example of Jesus is contradictory. Turn the other cheek, be a pacifist, however, if anyone wants to hurt me, defend me with your blood. Quite contradictory and hypocritical.

Well, I have never studied the variations of the Bible used by such denominations as Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses so I won't attempt to speak on their behalf. However, the Protestant, Catholic and Orthodox Bible is exactly the same except the Protestant Bible doesn't include what is called the "Apocrypha" and the Catholic Bible includes slightly less of this than the Orthodox Bible. The Bible, not including the Apocrypha, does have enormous evidence to support that it has not changed over time. The Apocrypha might also have such evidence, but this also is something I have not studied in depth so I'm not going to pretend I know for sure.

Well, you are slightly wrong. There are Masoretic Texts, the Pentateuch, 151 Psalms in some cases. Also, the King James version has a different structure in the OT to the Catholic and Orthodox Bibles, different amount of books, different order.

I look forward to your next reply!

Likewise.

[blondy269]

Originally Posted by talonner

Wouldn't that imply the same thing?

Well, no, the first would imply that you are personally curious about the things you asked in the OP and looking for an answer to these personal questions. The second would imply that they're not questions that you're personally curious about, rather, you just thought of questions, even if you already had answers.

Originally Posted by talonner

They don't give them out.

Who's "they"? What's "them"? :S

Originally Posted by talonner

It's like someone predicts that on x day a tree will fall over. It doesn't happen so they cut the tree down to make it fall over. That isn't prophecy in the mystical sense. Fulfilling it for the sake of fulfilling it is wrong.

I see your point, but I don't have much to say about it.

Originally Posted by talonner

Yeah I don't completely agree with that.

Lol, I've never spoken to someone on a forum who would make such a statement and not provide some explanation for it. So I'll ask you for it: please explain which part you don't agree with and why.

Originally Posted by talonner

It's forgivable, that's the point. Just like how the sin of being born is forgivable.

The sin of being born?

Originally Posted by talonner

Prior to the existence of Jesus, there was no prayer to Jesus. Now there is prayer and energy directed towards him.

John 1:1-7 says "In the beginning the Word already existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was God. He existed in the beginning with God. God created everything through him, and nothing was created except through him. The Word gave life to everything that was created, and his life brought light to everyone. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness can never extinguish it."
This passage is referring to Jesus, and from it we can deduce that "In the beginning [Jesus] already existed." You, however, speak of times prior to the existence of Jesus, a time which, according to John, does not exist itself...

Originally Posted by talonner

So now you are writing Heaven and Earth are distinctly different places, yet previously you have written Earth will become Heaven. Reminds me of that song, "Borrowed Heaven", sung by someone who is an MBE. Does the English Royal Family not claim some sort of divine right to rule due to descendancy (alleged) from Jesus? Why do they need to borrow heaven?

Are you also aware of Saints who have been recorded as levitating, that would assume they can ascend to Heaven, if it is in fact a spiritual place located within this realm.

Yes, because I believe that right now, Heaven and Earth are indeed distinct and seperate places. However, 1000 years after the Second Coming, Earth will be 'cleansed' with fire and a New Earth will become Heaven, and will be as Earth was originally when it was created (i.e. like the Garden of Eden). All that probably sounds very foreign and unfamiliar, you should do some research on those ideas if so.

RE: Saints who have been recorded as levitating. You mean, when they were still alive?

Originally Posted by talonner

How about telling people they are healed and healing them, laying on of the hands, and after that Lourdes.

Is that supposed to be your definition of "psychic healing" or evidence from the Bible that Jesus engaged in it? Or both?

I think all of Jesus miracles, which include the times he healed people, were not "psychic healing", however I don't think you've given me your definition of that term so I'm not really sure if they were what you call "psychic healing." I think it was just that he's God and all, so he can pretty much say "You are healed" if he wants and it happens. I don't think it relies on "psychic healing."

Originally Posted by talonner

I think you are misinterpreting what I wrote. I would not like to be cursed, however blessing those who would curse me is a bizarre act to follow, considering Jesus even got his followers to arm up with weapons capable of death and gross injury when he was being pursued in his final days.

I think so, but you did say "Do unto others, so if someone curses you, curse them back?" That sounds pretty much like you misunderstood the concept of "Do unto others as you would like them to do to you." It certainly is bizarre by the world's standards, pretty much everything Jesus said and did was...However, as that link I provided explains, the meaning of Jesus instructions to buy swords is definitely debateable regarding whether Jesus was speaking literally.

Originally Posted by talonner

I think you are missing the point I was trying to make. I have an analysis of the Book of Revelation I will have to find.

Okay.

Originally Posted by talonner

Your interpretations are very indoctrinated.

Well, considering that I was brought up in the Church, I think that's neither a fault of my own or something that could be easily avoided.

Originally Posted by talonner

Earth and Heaven are two different places. How can Earth become Heaven?

If God wanted to make Earth into Heaven, you don't think it would be possible? :S

Originally Posted by talonner

Read Revelation.

Revelation is a VERY symbolic book...

Originally Posted by talonner

It is plain and clear to see for anyone who has a limited understanding of things spiritual how the energy has been divided.

Okay, let's just say the "energy" has been divided. So what? Essentially, the three persons of the Trinity are One, so they're all receiving this "energy" anyway...
You still have not provided any Biblical basis for this idea of the competition between the three persons of the Trinity to receive the most "spriritual energy." Just because there is a certain thing that can be received by multiple entities does not mean they are in competition to receive the most of it...

Originally Posted by talonner

...

Well, you said "They are direct contradictions of each other, and hypocritical" as if it is common knowledge and an idisputable fact. The link I provided shows that this is not the case. Hence, it seemed as though you had not read the link I provided...

Originally Posted by talonner

The example of Jesus is contradictory. Turn the other cheek, be a pacifist, however, if anyone wants to hurt me, defend me with your blood. Quite contradictory and hypocritical.

See previous points on this idea.

Originally Posted by talonner

Well, you are slightly wrong. There are Masoretic Texts, the Pentateuch, 151 Psalms in some cases. Also, the King James version has a different structure in the OT to the Catholic and Orthodox Bibles, different amount of books, different order.

I did mention the things you've brought up, apart from the differing structures.

[talonner]

Originally Posted by blondy269

Well, no, the first would imply that you are personally curious about the things you asked in the OP and looking for an answer to these personal questions. The second would imply that they're not questions that you're personally curious about, rather, you just thought of questions, even if you already had answers.

It's called philosophy.

Who's "they"? What's "them"?

Go back and read it in context.

I see your point, but I don't have much to say about it.

Why is that?

Lol, I've never spoken to someone on a forum who would make such a statement and not provide some explanation for it. So I'll ask you for it: please explain which part you don't agree with and why.

Oh right, read what you wrote in reply to my previous block of text you quoted. You did just that. Try and explain away your ideas regarding Jesus HAVING to die for prophecy, to return etc. It is all mathematics and brainwashing, in essence, this prophecy you write of.

The sin of being born?

Original sin. Also, lust as a deadly sin, that is going to fuck people up, making their mind feel bad about natural urges. It corrupts the mind and leads to sexual deviancy.

John 1:1-7 says "In the beginning the Word already existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was God. He existed in the beginning with God. God created everything through him, and nothing was created except through him. The Word gave life to everything that was created, and his life brought light to everyone. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness can never extinguish it."
This passage is referring to Jesus, and from it we can deduce that "In the beginning [Jesus] already existed." You, however, speak of times prior to the existence of Jesus, a time which, according to John, does not exist itself...

And who/what was John? A follower/disciple, correct?

Yes, because I believe that right now, Heaven and Earth are indeed distinct and seperate places. However, 1000 years after the Second Coming, Earth will be 'cleansed' with fire and a New Earth will become Heaven, and will be as Earth was originally when it was created (i.e. like the Garden of Eden). All that probably sounds very foreign and unfamiliar, you should do some research on those ideas if so.

I am familiar with the concept. I reject the statement that Earth will become Heaven. The Bible has either been tampered with (which would be not at all surprising) or Jesus was very deceitful.

RE: Saints who have been recorded as levitating. You mean, when they were still alive?

Yes.

Is that supposed to be your definition of "psychic healing" or evidence from the Bible that Jesus engaged in it? Or both?

Don't act a fool.

I think all of Jesus miracles, which include the times he healed people, were not "psychic healing", however I don't think you've given me your definition of that term so I'm not really sure if they were what you call "psychic healing." I think it was just that he's God and all, so he can pretty much say "You are healed" if he wants and it happens. I don't think it relies on "psychic healing."

He is not God, he just placed himself in to the God head.

I think so, but you did say "Do unto others, so if someone curses you, curse them back?" That sounds pretty much like you misunderstood the concept of "Do unto others as you would like them to do to you." It certainly is bizarre by the world's standards, pretty much everything Jesus said and did was...However, as that link I provided explains, the meaning of Jesus instructions to buy swords is definitely debateable regarding whether Jesus was speaking literally.

I understand the concept perfectly well. Do you understand how it is easy to rationalise and comprehend the Biblical Jesus as a hypocrite?

Well, considering that I was brought up in the Church, I think that's neither a fault of my own or something that could be easily avoided.

...

If God wanted to make Earth into Heaven, you don't think it would be possible? :S

I don't see the point, if he already has a kingdom in Heaven, which has been established and what have you, and there was already a fight there, and certain beings were kicked out etc, why would he destroy that to claim Earth? Also, Jesus is not God. God wouldn't be so incompetent as to fail, nor would he ask his father to forgive those who crucified him. Besides, we are all God's children.

Revelation is a VERY symbolic book...

It is is it? Why is then that you wrote:

However, 1000 years after the Second Coming, Earth will be 'cleansed' with fire and a New Earth will become Heaven, and will be as Earth was originally when it was created (i.e. like the Garden of Eden).

Do you not take it in the literal sense as a good Christian ought to? You are even contradicting yourself now.

Okay, let's just say the "energy" has been divided. So what? Essentially, the three persons of the Trinity are One, so they're all receiving this "energy" anyway...
You still have not provided any Biblical basis for this idea of the competition between the three persons of the Trinity to receive the most "spriritual energy." Just because there is a certain thing that can be received by multiple entities does not mean they are in competition to receive the most of it...

It's philosophical pondering. Do not forget a tenet of Satan is to deceive.

Well, you said "They are direct contradictions of each other, and hypocritical" as if it is common knowledge and an idisputable fact. The link I provided shows that this is not the case. Hence, it seemed as though you had not read the link I provided...

So you would not consider Jesus commanding to turn the other cheek, ordering his followers to arm up and prepare to fight, and something about helping a soldier carry his whatevers, hypocritical in the strictest sense of the word?

See previous points on this idea.

You are not making a very good argument.

I did mention the things you've brought up, apart from the differing structures.

You appeared to have no knowledge of the Masoretic Texts, Pentateuch, Psalm 151, altering of the OT etc.

I didn't either until this year.

[Nachismo]

Blondie:

God wouldn't be so incompetent as to fail, nor would he ask his father to forgive those who crucified him.

What makes you think God failed?
You think he would not ask his father to forgive those who crucified him is false?

I'll tackle your inquiry......

[L33tz]

Islam fits nicely.

Before the council of nicea no texts mention the idea of Jesus(pbuh) being the son of god.

you see the bible has been changed many times but the quran is ordered to be memorized for the very reason so it cannot be changed.

[driveby]

First of all, the bible is full of things that should not be in it. The holy spirit, is the spirit of God. Something you feel inside you, that makes you not miserable when youre not sinning. Second of all, you have to be consious of the paranormal realm to know what Yahushua accomplished by dieing for our sins.

When you died if following hebrew beliefs before he came, you were sent to heaven by yahushua during final judgement, if you didn't, or did, but got captured by deamons, you went to hell. In simple terms, you remain on earth as a spirit, but get accepted in the end of the world, if you followed the hebrew faith prior to his arrival, and death on the cross.

Yahushua saved us by allowing us to enter heaven immediately following death.

He also created purgatory, for those who had unconfessed sins.

All children under 10.5 go there upon death. Him being king of earth? He is. This does not mean litteral rule over the planet. Since he is creator, and controller of all things, he was, and is king.

And as for the holy trinity, the son was God in the flesh. It is 3 components to one.

[driveby]

Originally Posted by L33tz

Islam fits nicely.

Before the council of nicea no texts mention the idea of Jesus(pbuh) being the son of god.

you see the bible has been changed many times but the quran is ordered to be memorized for the very reason so it cannot be changed.

The oldest version of the bible, or one of the oldest, is the Douay Rheims version of the bible. The King James version was written by a homosexual freemason.

The bible was actually created by Satan. Satan combined the evil paul gospel containing the idolatry of the rosary, hail mary, and the crucifix with the peter gospel, which was pure. He took out parts which explain the nature of existence better, and changed it from Gods language of hebrew, to satan's language of latin.

Another thing is that christmas, easter, and sunday sabbath are sins, added by paul. Christmas can be celebrated, but not the birth of jesus. Santa clause is a huge sin to tell children, since it is honouring lies (satan).

Also, these changes simply allow satanic homosexuals to use them to discredit the bible. This bible, and latin mass still are the correct way to worship yahushua, and receive the holy spirit. The changes were added to allow satan to use them to deceive people into beliving the bible is bullshit, during zionism.

Islam is a creation of the illuminati. It is sun god worship, light worship, and some more convincing things I could look up later.

[Nachismo]

Hey driveby, is this advice yahwey has been feeding you?
How have these beliefs enriched your life?

Check Zeigeist, The Pharmacratic Inquisition, and The Matrix Trilogy, and think about it for yourself......

[talonner]

Zeitgeist is propaganda in the sense it is made to look like it is going to help the average person and destroy oppression, however it is just more prophecy programming to get the masses on a path which will take them to a place that they were trying to get away from.

[Rizzo in a box]

Originally Posted by talonner

Zeitgeist is propaganda in the sense it is made to look like it is going to help the average person and destroy oppression, however it is just more prophecy programming to get the masses on a path which will take them to a place that they were trying to get away from.

Pretty much.

[slickt0mmy]

I haven't read the whole thread, so forgive me if I post something someone already has...

But anyway, in regards to the "turning the other cheek" thing.
Back then, you never used your right hand when hitting someone. The left hand did all the "dirty work" and the right is used when you're implying that the person you're associating with is your equal (which is why we shake with our right hands)
Knowing that, also know that back then you never slapped someone below you. You always hit with a closed fist.
So now think about the situation, if someone were to hit you, they would do it with their left hand, with a closed fist. Now, Jesus said to turn the other cheek. So do that and suddenly, you're offering them to hit you again but they can't. The only way to hit you on the other cheek would be to backhand you with their fist, which would not hurt at all. They're stuck.
So Jesus saying "turn the other cheek" is really him giving the people back then a way to get back at others without violence.

A lot of his teachings were like that.
The one about if someone tells you to carry their stuff and walk a mile, you should keep going and walk two....
Back then, Roman soldiers would be walking around and at any time, they could just point at you and order you to carry their stuff. But any distance over a mile was considered "cruel and unusual punishment" and would result in them losing their pay and possibly being imprisoned. If one of them were to think low of you and order you to do that, begin to go the extra mile and suddenly you'll have them on their knees begging you to stop and give their stuff back. Once again, its a way to get back at those persecuting you without using violence.

I know that doesn't really answer any questions. I just thought you might find it interesting.

[Vargus]

Too much stupid in OP to bother with. :/

I know that doesn't really answer any questions. I just thought you might find it interesting.

Besically this. Jesus, the man, not perverted by modern Christianity, was awesome.

[Vargus]

Originally Posted by L33tz

the quran is ordered to be memorized for the very reason so it cannot be changed.

........ wut?

[The General]

I was too lazy to read and I am a strong believer in God so I don't feel like arguing.

From what I read though I would like to explain blasphemy to the holy ghost. Basically the holy ghost is your spirit or believing in God. You can blashphemy your holy before you die but if you never accepted Christ AKA blashmey against the holy spirit then you go to hell.

[slickt0mmy]

Originally Posted by The General

I was too lazy to read and I am a strong believer in God so I don't feel like arguing.

From what I read though I would like to explain blasphemy to the holy ghost. Basically the holy ghost is your spirit or believing in God. You can blashphemy your holy before you die but if you never accepted Christ AKA blashmey against the holy spirit then you go to hell.

I have no idea what you were trying to say there, but from what I did understand, I don't think you're right.

According to the bible, the holy ghost is part of the trinity of God. There's God (the maker of everything), Jesus (the human incarnation of God), and then the Holy Ghost (which chills down here with us). I think the best way I can describe the holy ghost (or holy spirit) would be the feeling you get when you realize that you're life is going to be ok. Sort of like a weight is lifted from you. I usually get chills from it.

[Acorn Pilot]

Originally Posted by slickt0mmy

I have no idea what you were trying to say there, but from what I did understand, I don't think you're right.

According to the bible, the holy ghost is part of the trinity of God. There's God (the maker of everything), Jesus (the human incarnation of God), and then the Holy Ghost (which chills down here with us). I think the best way I can describe the holy ghost (or holy spirit) would be the feeling you get when you realize that you're life is going to be ok. Sort of like a weight is lifted from you. I usually get chills from it.

THAT'S WHAT DRIVEBY'S BEEN FUCKING SAYING! WHEN YOU FUCKING SAY THAT GOD DAMN SHIT, EVERYONE AGREES, WHEN HE SAYS IT YOU ALL TALK SHIT. DRIVEBY KNOWS THE ANSWERS TO ALL.

dddddd

[slickt0mmy]

Originally Posted by Acorn Pilot

THAT'S WHAT DRIVEBY'S BEEN FUCKING SAYING! WHEN YOU FUCKING SAY THAT GOD DAMN SHIT, EVERYONE AGREES, WHEN HE SAYS IT YOU ALL TALK SHIT. DRIVEBY KNOWS THE ANSWERS TO ALL.

dddddd

Well gee, I'm sorry. By the way, how much does he pay you to suck his dick?
just kidding. I hadn't even read what he said, I was just replying to that other dude.

[L33tz]

Originally Posted by driveby

Islam is a creation of the illuminati. It is sun god worship, light worship, and some more convincing things I could look up later.

No no no. It is the opposite of the illuminati. They do not worship the moon or sun. Every religion has been infiltrated including Islam but the Quran has not. I agree the crescent moon is a pagan symbol and it should not be used. And to clear up something about the Kaaba before it is asked. The stone is not worshiped the spot is used to try to raise your spiritual awareness. It is also on the point of the most intersecting Ley lines in the world. Haven't you taken note that they put light over the faces of the Prophets(pbut) for the very reason to discourage worshiping them, as is done to Jesus(pbuh) in Christianity. Islam is monotheism. Allah(SWT) alone is worshiped.

And you should watch this video as well.

http://www.truvisiontube.com/media/1...e_Old_Warrior/