Drugs and spiritual practices

[Obbe]

Some drugs defiantly alter the way you see the world. Sometimes this can makes things better, and sometimes worse. I think the best way to take drugs is to be like water making its way through cracks.

Empty your mind, be formless. Shapeless, like water. If you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You put water into a bottle and it becomes the bottle. You put it in a teapot it becomes the teapot.

[DiStOrTiOn]

Originally Posted by Obbe

Some drugs defiantly alter the way you see the world. Sometimes this can makes things better, and sometimes worse. I think the best way to take drugs is to be like water making its way through cracks.

Empty your mind, be formless. Shapeless, like water. If you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You put water into a bottle and it becomes the bottle. You put it in a teapot it becomes the teapot.

lay off the cough syrup


fucking hippie

[Obbe]

don't tell me what to lay off of.

fuckin' faggot.

[Figure-8]

Originally Posted by Dionysus

may trigger kundalini quicker than any amount of your advice.

I triggered a kundalini awakening when I was 16 from sexual abstinence after a many year bout of deep introspective internal exploration, meditation, and continual experiences of an altered state of being.

These arose naturally from my self-developed yogic processes. I would practice for my own benefit, because they made me feel good stretching and I got a mental affect from the "tensegrity" aspect. That can be related to a growing feeling of suspension and contraction, expansion and peace with the continual flexing, yogic bending, stretching and ultimately intensifying of union of the muscles of the body and skeletal structure. The whole body becomes a vibrating, tightened connection of bands of consciously spreading tension energy that flows with each breath. My meditations, as well as my natural (neurologically based) predisposition for these experiences, lead me into having the experiences that I do and ultimately a complete kundalini trigger.

Yes, these experiences and these concepts borderline what is considered insanity today. Yes, they have been around for thousands of years. Yes, if you become violent, disoriented and disconnected, you will be considered insane and probably rightly so.

Yes, I have displayed all of these processes and more. The important thing is to return to center and come to terms with what you have experienced, reflecting on the whole and gaining the wisdom.

We all have wisdom, there is no one more important than any other, and no source of life more important than any other. Everything in the Universe is equal, this is because the end scale to which we can compare is infinitely outside of our conscious understanding.

I certainly think it is overwhelmingly the person that determines the results of drug use, not the drugs in and off themselves.

Always, but you are never limited to a solidified set of possibilities, until you are dead.


If you think about it.

Our brain is using "drugs" to achieve a sense of "spirituality". Whether it is just being pretentious or not.

With that said, think of this.

Originally Posted by Gun Lover

As someone who has abused psychedelics to excess, I can say that simply doing such will NOT automatically turn you into ate.

You cannot use illusory physical processes to achieve enlightenment this life.

[delysid]

Originally Posted by Figure-8

I triggered a kundalini awakening when I was 16 from sexual abstinence after a many year bout of deep introspective internal exploration, meditation, and continual experiences of an altered state of being.

Because your dick wouldn't get hard.

[Figure-8]

Too hard. Little did I know kegal muscles exercises are similar to one aspect of kundalini yogic techniques or internal qi gong.

Live and you learn.



Love is the highest answer.

[Zanick]

I think Ate has a reasonable argument for why a guru is necessary, it's a safety measure. Go to the DSM-IV-TR and look under "Qi-Gong Related Illness", if somebody practices incorrectly they can suffer dire physiological and psychological consequences. This isn't even a question of morality, it's purely a question of learning to do things with your own body, that you don't know how to do and have never done before. You can try to figure things out for yourself, but people can and do become psychotic from screwing up with their technique. Imagine knowing nothing about kinesiology, but still going to the gym every day with no athletic trainer. You'd be somewhat uninformed on how to properly balance your workout, and with persistence this could lead to very unpleasant surprises. The 'guru' is there to make sure you don't shoot yourself in this way.

But I also think Dionysus has a point about the moral problem. It seems like gurus are displayed not only as spiritual teachers, but even as idols. They erect a model of ethical doctrine coupled with a metaphysics to keep pupils coming back with groceries and their masters' rent.

Maybe gurus don't have to be teachers by trade, but friends with experience. Finding an unbiased guru is probably a very important task for many.

[Dionysus]

Originally Posted by zanick

I think Ate has a reasonable argument for why a guru is necessary, it's a safety measure. Go to the DSM-IV-TR and look under "Qi-Gong Related Illness", if somebody practices incorrectly they can suffer dire physiological and psychological consequences. This isn't even a question of morality, it's purely a question of learning to do things with your own body, that you don't know how to do and have never done before. You can try to figure things out for yourself, but people can and do become psychotic from screwing up with their technique. Imagine knowing nothing about kinesiology, but still going to the gym every day with no athletic trainer. You'd be somewhat uninformed on how to properly balance your workout, and with persistence this could lead to very unpleasant surprises. The 'guru' is there to make sure you don't shoot yourself in this way.

But I also think Dionysus has a point about the moral problem. It seems like gurus are displayed not only as spiritual teachers, but even as idols. They erect a model of ethical doctrine coupled with a metaphysics to keep pupils coming back with groceries and their masters' rent.

Maybe gurus don't have to be teachers by trade, but friends with experience. Finding an unbiased guru is probably a very important task for many.

Well, it's not just moral. It's just that I figure that human genetic/nervous systems are so different that you can't really template any one method. Not to mention metaphysical concepts as individual will and individual destiny. That and I think safety isn't necessarily the most desirable outcome anyway. I very much subscribe to the "Doesn't kill me makes me stronger" ethic, and I feel that chaos and confusion is the best way to bring out unique forms. Conforming to someone else's system may be safer, but it is more personal, not to mention more artistic, to venture into the underworld. I feel having a few causalities along the way only adds to the thrill. I view life as a piece of art, ideally anyway, and the nasty, base, profane elements of it are just as beautiful as the nice elements. In many ways it is also the more valid. I believe we are NOT all one thing. We may inhabit the same art gallery, but we are all self transforming pictures hanging within it. Truth is not as valuable as illusion, particularly since action is spurred on by an arbitrary mixture of both, and becoming is more basic than the labels statically superimposed on top of it. The power of the action and the gesture is much more important than the truth behind it. Ate is just using the concept of truth as a weapon. You can say that your bullshit is the truth all you want, but that doesn't make it so, particularly when you are incapable of comparative argument to support it.

Besides, in this day and age a guru is unnecessary. You can pluck the information from the internet as it becomes relevant. Stressed out? I try some Hyatt methods. http://www.youtube.com/user/radicalundoing Turning into a vagina? Read some Sade and jack off to sadistic pornography (or better yet some sadistic fucking). It is more fun to allow instinctive individual growth as it happens than bending over for some asshole like ate to mold and sodomize. However much he denies it, there is a power relationship involved. It is a selfish action. Love is a very selfish motivation. Safety and security is the devils bargain; you may not have to worry about pain and insanity, but you stunt your own individual power and expression as a result. Pain and suffering can be the most beneficial thing you can experience, so long as it doesn't break you anyways. It isn't like you have a whole lot to lose in the first place however.

[Figure-8]

True love is enlightening and the narrow, unified path that brings the most rewards.

Originally Posted by zanick

I think Ate has a reasonable argument for why a guru is necessary, it's a safety measure.

Safety measure, as in restraint, and also guidance.

Go to the DSM-IV-TR and look under "Qi-Gong Related Illness", if somebody practices incorrectly they can suffer dire physiological and psychological consequences.

Frontal lobotomy at best.

This isn't even a question of morality, it's purely a question of learning to do things with your own body, that you don't know how to do and have never done before. You can try to figure things out for yourself, but people can and do become psychotic from screwing up with their technique. Imagine knowing nothing about kinesiology, but still going to the gym every day with no athletic trainer.

Yes, and no. You can do very well just lifting and playing around.

Like a young calf, the cliff is a dangerous place without guidance. The world is.

So the advanced body, the human form, it can yield unexpected results and a much more intense variety of experience. Therefore with the higher grounds, it is likely one will be able to use if not absolutely require some kind of direction.

It is as if lifting one's own body weight builds abs and definition, yet after the 500th lift, suddenly you grow wings. Lifting prepares us, but only so much.

You'd be somewhat uninformed on how to properly balance your workout, and with persistence this could lead to very unpleasant surprises. The 'guru' is there to make sure you don't shoot yourself in this way.

Yes, and again, emphasis on the unexpected leap.

But I also think Dionysus has a point about the moral problem. It seems like gurus are displayed not only as spiritual teachers, but even as idols.

Those aren't gurus.

Maybe gurus don't have to be teachers by trade, but friends with experience. Finding an unbiased guru is probably a very important task for many.

Yes, sometimes the guru is not noticed, but this is usually for a sleeping adept, soon to awaken.

[iMagiNation]

Some drugs aren't drugs. I think DMT is alien technology.

[Obbe]

^I think you may be right.

[Daily]

Originally Posted by Dionysus

I look at drugs as a way of understanding your own brain and thus the larger reality that it perceives/interacts with, and I think you should be able to extract as much from the "dirty" drugs like opiates and amphetamines as from psychedelics and weed.

So glad somebody said this. The one time I snorted meth was more spiritually relevant than all of my acid trips combined.

[delysid]

Originally Posted by Daily

So glad somebody said this. The one time I snorted meth was more spiritually relevant than all of my acid trips combined.

Different strokes for different folks.

[Zanick]

I find adderall is useful for concentration, though I prefer more natural means of maintaining proper focus because I experience undesirable side effects.

LSD is very mind-opening, but there's only so far it takes me before I need to actually apply its insight towards bettering myself spiritually or otherwise.

Marijuana is... arguably the best for me; I get really intense trips now from one toke during which I can feel every stimuli on multiple levels and then some, I can't even begin to describe it adequately.

Codeine might be the most practically useful for me, it's great for inducing a mild trance state that can go on for an hour or two, plus the intoxication isn't so prevalent should I need to behave for some other responsibility.

[SoulButter]

If we're talking about our most spiritual experiences I would say mushrooms were mine. LSD is always mind opening though. I've never done DMT, and haven't eaten enough cactus to have an opinion.

[Dionysus]

Originally Posted by Daily

So glad somebody said this. The one time I snorted meth was more spiritually relevant than all of my acid trips combined.

That is why I hate the concept of spirituality at all; especially when it dictates acceptable drug usage. You can take speed and discover that you have capacities for concentration you didn't know about. You can take alcohol and enhance your social comfort zone enough to form a life long friendship. You can take LSD and learn more about the mechanisms of your perception than you even knew existed. I don't even consider if I was achieving ego loss, doing gods will or talking with Jesus as a factor since all it does is SLOW YOU DOWN and DETACH YOU FROM LIVING thereby DEGENERATING YOUR PERSONAL POWER and turning you into A FUCKWIT MONGOLOID NEW AGE TWAT.

[Zanick]

I think it's very useful to be able to willingly alter my own perception, but because the mind is not static--rather, it is fluid--an important skill to develop is taking what you've discovered in one state so it can be utilized in another. This seems to be consistent with how people change their perspectives after going from a psychedelic experience to a state of sobriety, or how maintaining a deeper rate of breathing can help in managing biological responses during a stressful situation.

[MasterKraft]

for me DMT = bliss -your lady spirits will float around and the trees will dance like never before 10times more visual then LSD. DMT opens the path... you can talk to the dead.....