The end of human space exploration

[zuperxtreme]

lol'd.

[Struwwelpeter]

Let's face it, most of the people who are enthusiastic about space flight are enthusiastic about it because they think that the future is going to look something like this:

Spoiler: Click to toggle

If you just look at the profiles of some of the die-hard space/tech enthusiasts on this website, you will see stuff like ZuperExtreme's avatar. Semi-robotic space monsters.

This attitude was quite prevalent during the late 19th/early 20th century with the advent of automobiles and planes. It was envisioned by the public that each and every citizen would have his own automobile and his own airplane and that this would give rise to great freedom and a new way of life that was more preferable to the old. And, for a little while, that was reality. But what eventually happened? The roads became paved and regulated, and now you can't even get an automobile if you don't have a license, proper insurance, etc. If you break the slightest of traffic laws you get chewed out by a cop and you have to pay a fine or go to jail. There is now less freedom and enjoyment in driving than there is in walking or riding a bicycle.

Space travel is the same thing, but worse. Even if it were feasible that the ordinary person, or even more than a couple dozen people might ever have a chance at leaving the Earth's atmosphere, it could never be anything like what you want. Doing something like that is so incredibly complex, risky and costly that it's not as if you would ever have any control over what you could do there. It's unthinkable that the average person would even by allowed to go in to space. There would be blunders abound. Rockets would fall out of the sky and space stations around the universe would be destroyed. No, if you ever got the opportunity to go in to space you would be strapped down and preceded over by a few heavily armed guards who would tear a hole in your ass for the slightest infraction.

Not that there could ever be any feasible way to transport more than a couple of dozen people outside of Earth.

This "transhumanist" garbage is the same way. People foolishly assume that it's going to make people "supermen." No, it would be highly regulated and only used for the benefit of society at large. It's going to be like elementary school all over again. The short-sighted among us lap it up because you think it's going to turn you in to a cyborg. Still, it, like the continuance of space travel, is an impossibility.

[Pancake]

Oh ye of little faith.
Watch this video, and your hope will be restored ( well, maybe not )
http://mashable.com/2012/05/18/starship-enterprise/

[Struwwelpeter]

You people are STARVING for this space/tech junk! It's so funny! You cannot live a happy life without the existence of systems. How does it feel to be utterly worthless, a collectivist non-being?

[Satyr]

Originally Posted by Jim "fuck latinos" Carrey

You people are STARVING for this space/tech junk! It's so funny! You cannot live a happy life without the existence of systems. How does it feel to be utterly worthless, a collectivist non-being?

No, other people are starving because of the dream of space-exploration.

India:

According to 2010 data from the United Nations Development Programme, an estimated 37.2% of Indians live below the country's national poverty line.[2] A recent report by the Oxford Poverty and Human Development Initiative (OPHI) states that 8 Indian states have more poor than 26 poorest African nations combined which totals to more than 410 million poor in the poorest African countries.[3][4]

The Indian Space Research Organisation is preparing an orbiter mission to Mars and received 125 crore (over USD$24 million) from the government to complete the required studies.

The Indian Space Research Organization has been sanctioned a budget of 12,400 crore (US$2.47 billion) for its human spaceflight program.[

[komokazi]

The only ones starving are the lazy niggers, and they deserve to die.

[Shrike]

Originally Posted by Satyr

No, other people are starving because of the dream of space-exploration.

India:

It's not an either/or proposition. We can afford to develop space travel and increase food production or whatever to feed starving people. Perhaps we could spend a tiny bit less on new ways to blow each other up and divert that money elsewhere.

The 2011 budget for NASA is about $18 billion. The defense and related departments budget is $1-1.4 trillion. It's so much they can't even accurately assess how much money they are spending on it!

[benny vader]

Originally Posted by Shrike

....

The 2011 budget for NASA is about $18 billion. The defense and related departments budget is $1-1.4 trillion. It's so much they can't even accurately assess how much money they are spending on it!

The way I see it, spending trillions of $ on securing and at least trying to secure sources of tangible oil to use on food production nad generation energies and move around is better than spending billions on something intangible such as ''getting to know spaces better''

look, asstronomers generally agree either these to be true, that either this universe is finitely fucking big, or infinitely large. Eitherway, this means the earth will never be able to produce enough trees for us to chop down to make papers for galactic maps, or contain enough metals and silicons to make hard drives to store all the accumulated knowledge we might ever gain about space if we were to explore it .....

not on this earth and will never be in our lifetime.

Going to space is simply a pure waste of money. Hell ... we cant even develop or even propose a sound theory on how to fly to venus and farm the shit out of it, we kno its got lots of co2, plenty of sun .....

but that knowledge is all useless unless you some viable ways to use them to put food on the table.

Becos eventually, we, as all human and living things do, get hungry.

[zuperxtreme]

Man, I'm glad you people aren't leaders. No vision of the future. "Let's just keep doing this until it runs out, we'll worry about it later".

Space Exploration = Jobs(thousands), new materials, new areas of industry, new technology, medical research, progress.

It's just so close minded to think that investing in Science is a waste.

[benny vader]

Originally Posted by zuperxtreme

Space Exploration = Jobs(thousands), new materials, new areas of industry, new technology, medical research, progress....

Let me tell you how these are going to go down :

[1] They will outsauce all these ''jobs'' to China.

[2] New area of industry will rain like after they've mushroomed, in China.

[3] New technologies will probably come from, well ... China if they werent manufactured there.

[4] Progress will mainly thrive in ... gain, China.

Guess where this ''space exploration'' you so crave of leaves people like you who'r living in Argentina ???? No where.

20-30 years from now you prolly would still be poasting and talking about new space discoveries out of your mud igloo from your China made computers after you watched some chinese asstronomers talked about their new chinese space discovry on your China made hi-def tvs ........

like how you presently are .....

I don't know what exactly is it that people in your country does for a living but I suggest you go back doing them right now and stop wasting time daydreaming about spass exploration. It'll never be your thing.

[zuperxtreme]

You're missing the point, I don't care who does it as long as it gets done. You can shove the nationalism.
Plus you probably use something in your everyday life that was a result of investment into space exploration(and all related branches). So yeah, everyone benefits. Even if you aren't directly involved.

And no shit it won't be my thing, I'm not an aerospace engineer, I didn't choose that path. Attacking me doesn't make you right.

[JeffreyH]

Originally Posted by zuperxtreme

Space Exploration = Jobs(thousands)

Can't believe you fell for the "we need to create jobs!" populist bullshit.

I say let's create thousands of jobs by paying women to suck dicks, and by paying guys to have their dicks sucked, that would solve the unemployment problem in one day. And would be more beneficial than sending tons of resources into space with no hope of them coming back.

[zuperxtreme]

Originally Posted by JeffreyH

Can't believe you fell for the "we need to create jobs!" populist bullshit.

http://www.spacex.com/careers.php

[benny vader]

Originally Posted by zuperxtreme

...

And no shit it won't be my thing, I'm not an aerospace engineer, I didn't choose that path. Attacking me doesn't make you right.

well then, that means, as dictated by logic .... that even if your rite, you still lose and have nothing to gain ......

thats just like watching porn, even if plenty people get laid, it wont be you ......

you might just as well just condemn sex as evil since promoting them as something good wont get you laid irregardless ..... by women or men.

[zuperxtreme]

Originally Posted by benny vader

well then, that means, as dictated by logic .... that even if your rite, you still lose and have nothing to gain ......

thats just like watching porn, even if plenty people get laid, it wont be you ......

you might just as well just condemn sex as evil since promoting them as something good wont get you laid irregardless ..... by women or men.

Originally Posted by zuperxtreme

Plus you probably use something in your everyday life that was a result of investment into space exploration(and all related branches). So yeah, everyone benefits. Even if you aren't directly involved.

[benny vader]

yea ????? name some.

[zuperxtreme]

Long distance communication, LEDs, scratch-resistant lenses, memory foam, cordless tools, water filters, smoke detectors, the foundation for some dialysis machines, CAT scanner, etc etc etc

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASA_spin-off

[ratfrink]

Apart from the obvious ones (satellites and associated global telecommunications) NASA holds patents for, or helped to develop:
MRI scanning
more accurate quartz clocks
Invisible braces
Scratch-resistant lenses
Memory foam
Ear-thermometers (previously people used glass oral or rectal ones)
The shock-absorbing properties of running/athletic shoes
Adjustable smoke detectors
Improved road and runway surfaces (a development of the surface of NASA runways)
Development of cordless tools and associated battery technology
Massively improved ventilation systems
Massively improved water and air filtration systems
Development of bioreactors which are now used for medical research
Wearable vital-signs monitors
Fly-by-wire systems now used in the automotive industry
CAT scanners (used to detect internal imperfections in spacecraft components)
Computer microchips were massively advanced by NASA
The joystick
NASA anti-corrosion paint technology is now ubiquitous in civil engineering (including
Medical video-imaging software and CCDs
Cochlear implants
Insulin pumps
'Lifeshears'

That's just a tiny sample. You can read all about NASA inventions here.

[ratfrink]

Oh, zuperxtreme got there first.

[JeffreyH]

Originally Posted by zuperxtreme

You're missing the point, I don't care who does it as long as it gets done. You can shove the nationalism.
Plus you probably use something in your everyday life that was a result of investment into space exploration(and all related branches). So yeah, everyone benefits. Even if you aren't directly involved.

And no shit it won't be my thing, I'm not an aerospace engineer, I didn't choose that path. Attacking me doesn't make you right.

Space exploration was a by-product of investing into ICBMs and ballistic missile defense.

A way to sell the research to the public, in a way. "We are doing it for peace, not war", same as is normally done in these cases.

[JeffreyH]

Originally Posted by zuperxtreme

http://www.spacex.com/careers.php

And how do they make money? By providing services to whom? Would they still exist if the government wasn't involved in space? If not, then they are not exactly "commercial".

[JeffreyH]

Originally Posted by ratfrink

Apart from the obvious ones (satellites and associated global telecommunications) NASA holds patents for, or helped to develop:
MRI scanning
more accurate quartz clocks
Invisible braces
Scratch-resistant lenses
Memory foam
Ear-thermometers (previously people used glass oral or rectal ones)
The shock-absorbing properties of running/athletic shoes
Adjustable smoke detectors
Improved road and runway surfaces (a development of the surface of NASA runways)
Development of cordless tools and associated battery technology
Massively improved ventilation systems
Massively improved water and air filtration systems
Development of bioreactors which are now used for medical research
Wearable vital-signs monitors
Fly-by-wire systems now used in the automotive industry
CAT scanners (used to detect internal imperfections in spacecraft components)
Computer microchips were massively advanced by NASA
The joystick
NASA anti-corrosion paint technology is now ubiquitous in civil engineering (including
Medical video-imaging software and CCDs
Cochlear implants
Insulin pumps
'Lifeshears'

That's just a tiny sample. You can read all about NASA inventions here.

But how can you show these would not be available today without government intervention?

[zuperxtreme]

Yeah, fair point. I'm not arguing that war doesn't drives a lot of research, it does. I'm agreeing with Shrike that a lot of that money being invested into war could be invested into Space exploration/research, not as by-product.

Anyways, I think it's pretty evident by now that space exploration is in its infancy, helps humanity in countless ways and that it's nowhere close to the "end".

[zuperxtreme]

Originally Posted by JeffreyH

And how do they make money? By providing services to whom? Would they still exist if the government wasn't involved in space? If not, then they are not exactly "commercial".

They provide a means to get things up there, clients will come. For example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planetary_Resources

I'm sure they'll need someone to help get things into space if they don't do it themselves.

Plus don't forget that all of this is new, we're just beginning to see the start of commercial space.. stuff.

[JeffreyH]

Originally Posted by zuperxtreme

They provide a means to get things up there, clients will come. For example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planetary_Resources

I'm sure they'll need someone to help get things into space if they don't do it themselves.

Plus don't forget that all of this is new, we're just beginning to see the start of commercial space.. stuff.

I'm all for it and I get as excited about space as anyone else, just don't think that running space programmes on taxes is a good idea.

[zuperxtreme]

I don't know, it seems like a worthy investment of tax money any way you look at it IMO. It may cost a lot, but compared to other things it's not much.

On that note, Neil deGrasse Tyson(among others) is trying to push for this: http://www.penny4nasa.org/

Upping the budget from 0,5% to 1%.

[Struwwelpeter]

Originally Posted by zuperxtreme

Man, I'm glad you people aren't leaders.

"Leaders" get their asses kicked where I'm from.

[zuperxtreme]

No one cares where you're from.

[JeffreyH]

Originally Posted by zuperxtreme

I don't know, it seems like a worthy investment of tax money any way you look at it IMO. It may cost a lot, but compared to other things it's not much.

Perhaps, if you have to spend the tax money somewhere, spending it on science in general and space in particular is not so bad.

But half of americans don't pay any federal income tax. So essentially, anything that is paid for by the income tax, they are getting for free. Is it fair to have them force others to pay for something they want?

You could say, "but space is what we all want anyway", or "but we all benefit from it in the end". Ok. Then why pay for it from taxes? Let me guess, most people want more money for space, but would object to have their taxes raised. They expect it to happen as some sort of free lunch. "They are running a deficit already anyway".

So; if it is something that the people truly want, why not run it on voluntary donations? "That would never work, most people that are interested would wait for everyone else to pay first, as they wouldn't think that their 1000$ makes any difference. In this day and age, that's not true. There are easy ways to set up a donation system, where you pledge a certain recommended amount (or any amount you wish), but you only get charged if enough money is raised to fund the project. If the people genuinely care about exploring space, there would be no excuses.

But let me guess; when the illusion of a free lunch is gone, most people would look at the 1000$ in their pocket, look at the news about some robot landing on mars and say to themselves, "yeah... not really worth 1000$ to me." Once they are aware they are spending their own money, you might find that they don't care about space exploration all that much.

Originally Posted by zuperxtreme

On that note, Neil deGrasse Tyson(among others) is trying to push for this: http://www.penny4nasa.org/

Upping the budget from 0,5% to 1%.

Sounds like a good idea when we are in the middle of an international debt crisis, and are running huge deficits.

[zuperxtreme]

I don't know enough about the American tax system to comment about it much, but I don't think the "penny4nasa" intends to increase taxes. I think their intention is to modify the budget so another half percent is destined to NASA.

And it's obvious that the average person doesn't care much about things that don't directly and immediately affect them, that's no surprise. I bet people who have used any of the previously mentioned inventions are grateful that they were created though.

It's an investment into the future basically.

[Struwwelpeter]

Originally Posted by zuperxtreme

No one cares where you're from.

Until you remember that you have relatives living here. You just made their lives a whole lot harder for 'em.

[zuperxtreme]

Shut up Jim, you're embarrassing yourself.

[Struwwelpeter]

What was that? Let me get that residential address of yours. My cameraman and I would like to see if you are willing to say that shit to my face in person.

[zuperxtreme]

lol

[benny vader]

Originally Posted by zuperxtreme

Shut up Jim, you're embarrassing yourself.

Originally Posted by zuperxtreme

Long distance communication, LEDs, scratch-resistant lenses, memory foam, cordless tools, water filters, smoke detectors, the foundation for some dialysis machines, CAT scanner, etc etc etc

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASA_spin-off

Originally Posted by your wiki sauce

Mistakenly attributed spinoffs

The following is a list of technologies sometimes mistakenly attributed to NASA.[30] In some cases NASA popularized technology or aided its development.

Barcodes (NASA developed a special type of barcode, but this should not be mistaken for the original one.)
Cordless power tools (The first cordless power tool was unveiled by Black & Decker in 1961. It was used by NASA and a number of spinoff products came out of that.)
Magnetic Resonance Imaging (MRI) (NASA has, however, contributed to its advances over the years. MRI is best known as a device for body scanning.)
Quartz clocks (The quartz clock dates back to 1927. However in the late 1960s, NASA partnered with a company to make a quartz clock that was on the market for a few years.)
Smoke detectors (NASA’s connection to the modern smoke detector is that it made one with adjustable sensitivity as part of the Skylab project.)
Tang juice powder (Tang was developed by General Foods in 1957, and it has been for sale since 1959. It was used in the first orbit missions, which gave awareness to it.)
Teflon (Invented for DuPont in 1938 and used on frying pans from the 1950s.[31] It has been applied by NASA to heat shields, space suits, and cargo hold liners.)
Velcro (A Swiss invention from the 1940s. Velcro was used during the Apollo missions to anchor equipment for astronauts’ convenience in zero gravity situations.)

and let me add :

[1] Long distance communication - Long distance communication had existed since the late 18th century when the first transatlantic cable has been laid.

[2] L.E.D - Electroluminescence as a phenomenon was discovered in 1907 by the British experimenter H. J. Round of Marconi Labs, using a crystal of silicon carbide and a cat's-whisker detector.[6][7] Russian Oleg Vladimirovich Losev reported creation of the first LED in 1927.[8][9] His research was distributed in Russian, Ger ....

[3] scratch-resistant lenses - [a] Their no such thing as scratch-resisting lenses unless your lenses are made of diamond, real or synthetic. [b] The word your actually your looking for is actually ''hard coating process'', which was derived from AR [anti reflective] coatings pioneered by the Russian military to coat the lenses of their snipers, followed by the US military.

[4] Memory foam - Memory foam was developed in 1966 under a contract by NASA's Ames Research Center to improve the safety of aircraft cushions. Memory was the result of the aircraft industry, and they could easily contracted someone else to come up with this kind of foam if NASA and their research never existed.

You shouldnt be the one who talk about not embarrassing oneself.

[zuperxtreme]

I stand corrected, but it doesn't take away from the point that space exploration isn't going anywhere.

[&Zenith]

Originally Posted by JeffreyH

It feels different because back then we were in a boom, and now we are stagnating at best.

Stagnating? I can see your poverty has led to brain damage due to nutritional deficit. "Stagnating" today, starvation tomorrow.