Lefty AR

[mizled]

I'm in the market for an left handed AR.
I've been looking at the Stag model 8L with the plus package (M-16 bolt carrier, 16" 4150 chrome lined 1/7 twist brl, H buffer, Diamondhead BUIS...). Does anyone here have any experience with the Stag?
Or any suggestions on any other lefty AR's?
I'd like to keep it around 1200.00.
Thanks.

(Yes, I'm left handed and left eye dominant)

[Ph0x]

m-16 bolt carrier offers nothing over the stock

[Number13]

In my opinion it would be best to train with both left and right handed shooting, so assuming you already have an AR shoot with that and save your money for a better left hander later on.

[Ph0x]

I wouldnt worry about stags quality, ARs are very simple rifles, hard to mess up.

[tomjonesa22]

http://www.impactguns.com/stag-arms-...559001063.aspx

I found what you found in the left handed section there were two stag ars

[5.56 SS109]

Originally Posted by phox

m-16 bolt carrier offers nothing over the stock

Wrong.



Also, Miz, since you need a lefty rifle Stag is the only real option. Good choice going with the Plus Package as it ensures quality. Not a fan of the Diamondhead BUIS (or any Troy BUIS for that matter) so I would say go with the A.R.M.S #40 if at all possible.

[sepht]

imo I don't see a reason to buy a custom gun. I just move my right arm out of the way so that the brass doesn't fly into it when I'm shooting. I'm sure any sort of bullpup design would be scary to shoot with the ejection port right in font of your nose.

[5.56 SS109]

Oh wait a second.

Any reason you are picking a piston gun over a DI gun?

I would say the 2TL with Plus Package is a more desirable rifle as it comes with the #40 BUIS and is DI. Pistons are pretty gimmicky in my opinion.

[mizled]

Originally Posted by 5.56 SS109

Oh wait a second.

Any reason you are picking a piston gun over a DI gun?

I would say the 2TL with Plus Package is a more desirable rifle as it comes with the #40 BUIS and is DI. Pistons are pretty gimmicky in my opinion.

Well, since they're about the same price (ballpark +200.00 ish..) and I already own a couple of piston guns (Garand and SKS) and my current 5.56 is HK roller delayed blowback action, I figured what the hell, I'd go with a piston rifle now and buy a DI upper for it later when Colt gets around to making a lefty.

I am contemplating optioning the #40 + #41 BUIs for a 100% co-witness with the Eotech though.

Are there any particular downsides I should be concerned with their piston action?

I know the Ruger SR's have a carrier tilt problem, but I haven't heard of that being the case with the Stag 8 series - at least not with the auto bolt carrier option.

Thanks

[5.56 SS109]

It's not that there are any downsides I can think of other than the fact that the piston system adds more parts and has no advantage over a DI gun whatsoever.

I really don't know anything about what piston Stag is using. Retrofit piston kits are usually garbage and have all kinds of reliability issues, whereas guns built for pistons from the ground up tend to be ok.

[p6867]

Originally Posted by mizled

I'm in the market for an left handed AR.
I've been looking at the Stag model 8L with the plus package (M-16 bolt carrier, 16" 4150 chrome lined 1/7 twist brl, H buffer, Diamondhead BUIS...). Does anyone here have any experience with the Stag?
Or any suggestions on any other lefty AR's?
I'd like to keep it around 1200.00.
Thanks.

(Yes, I'm left handed and left eye dominant)

my dad is a lefty and has some left handed stag, it's a good gun.

[roasted]

Originally Posted by 5.56 SS109

It's not that there are any downsides I can think of other than the fact that the piston system adds more parts and has no advantage over a DI gun whatsoever.

I really don't know anything about what piston Stag is using. Retrofit piston kits are usually garbage and have all kinds of reliability issues, whereas guns built for pistons from the ground up tend to be ok.

What...like an AK? I guess that has mediocre reliability...

There is a reason why most new assault rifles are piston. Look at the stoppage rates for DI vs Piston...its ridiculous how much better piston rifles are. Plus they are way easier to clean. I do agree with you that conversion kits suck, but a purpose-built, piston AR from a reputable company is more reliable than a DI.

I probably wont buy another DI AR unless I'm making a 20" heavy barrel for sniping or if I get a full auto. For a 16" semi auto, piston is the way to go.


Also, BUIS are a personal choice. I'm using this Troy BUIS with my EOTech and I prefer it over the ARMS. The Troy BUIS are smaller and lay flatter when folded...





Anyway, good luck Miz...let us know what you decide on.

[5.56 SS109]

Originally Posted by roasted

What...like an AK? I guess that has mediocre reliability...

There is a reason why most new assault rifles are piston. Look at the stoppage rates for DI vs Piston...its ridiculous how much better piston rifles are. Plus they are way easier to clean. I do agree with you that conversion kits suck, but a purpose-built, piston AR from a reputable company is more reliable than a DI.

I probably wont buy another DI AR unless I'm making a 20" heavy barrel for sniping or if I get a full auto. For a 16" semi auto, piston is the way to go.


Also, BUIS are a personal choice. I'm using this Troy BUIS with my EOTech and I prefer it over the ARMS. The Troy BUIS are smaller and lay flatter when folded...





Anyway, good luck Miz...let us know what you decide on.

AK? What are you talking about?

This is an AR thread last time I checked.

What I am saying is ARs designed from the beginning to run a piston, as opposed to a DI gun with an aftermarket piston kit, tend to work alright. But the piston offers nothing over DI and the only piston AR I would even consider would be HK's offering.

But even then there is no advantage over a properly built DI gun. Most people enamored by piston ARs tend to have crappy rifles to begin with and are only grasping at straws to try and fix their initial mistake of buying crap, instead of just doing it right the first time.

[roasted]

No advantages? Look up the stats for the US Army's 2007 invite only carbine test. Here is a little snippet from that test (the M4 was a Colt btw...):

• 416: 233 stoppages.

• M4: 882 stoppages.

The HK 416 is nothing more than a piston M16 (every other piston rifle out performed the m16, but thats not really on topic) and it absolutely raped the M4.

Also, when you talk about a DI being simpler; yes it is. But you are talking about adding one spring, one piston, and a redesigned gas block. That doesnt equate to adding a swiss watch or rube goldberg device into the equation.

Plus when you think about; over hundreds of thousands of rounds, the more complex design (piston) has proved itself VASTLY more reliable than the simpler DI.



If I were considering buying a new AR, I would consider: the '07 Army test, the success of the AK piston drive, and the rifles in the Individual Carbine Competition (everything but the CM901 is piston driven). One of the only reasons why the Army still fields M16's is because Colt slashed the price when they found out it was going to be replaced with the SCAR or HK416.

[5.56 SS109]

The 2007 Dust Test is of no real value and nothing more than an entertaining read.

Properly built Stoner rifle designs have been proven in every environment on Earth and the Colt M4 series is the rifle that every other company is trying to outperform and none have even matched it yet.

Pistons are a fad and equivalent to the Taurus Judge in terms of a terrible product marketed in such a way that it appears like a solid choice to the uninformed.

[roasted]

Originally Posted by 5.56 SS109

The 2007 Dust Test is of no real value and nothing more than an entertaining read.

You're right. I'm sure the Army conducted that test just for entertainment purposes.

Originally Posted by 5.56 SS109

Properly built Stoner rifle designs have been proven in every environment on Earth and the Colt M4 series is the rifle that every other company is trying to outperform and none have even matched it yet.

100% False. The M16 has been beaten by many rifles on many occasions (SCAR, HK 416, G36, XM8 to name a few). We still use the M16 because of budgetary reasons, not pure performance. It would have been replaced in the early 90's if the test criteria didnt require a 100% improvement over the M16

Originally Posted by 5.56 SS109

Pistons are a fad and equivalent to the Taurus Judge in terms of a terrible product marketed in such a way that it appears like a solid choice to the uninformed.

Um yeah, I dont think every military and assault rifle manufacturer in the world is changing to pistons because they are a fad. I'd bet any amount of money that the next assault rifle fielded by the US is going to be a piston gun. I cbf to check, but I think every NATO country uses pistons except us, Canada, and France.

[roasted]

The 80's would like their firearms knowledge back....

[5.56 SS109]

Piston AR designs are older than dirt, only difference is current marketing hype that is in favor of them.

[mizled]

Another quick question:

Is it worth the extra $150.00 for a free float quad rail?

[roasted]

A free float wont make much difference with a carbine, but the quad rail is always nice to have....just in case you want to put a foregrip, flashlight, laser or whatever on it (plus I think it looks better).

As far as being worth $150, I cant say yes or no. On a carbine you dont gain much performance with a free float...

[Ph0x]

Short barrels are stiffer and therefor more accurate than longer barrels, they have more drop and windage because they produce less velocity.

[5.56 SS109]

Originally Posted by mizled

Another quick question:

Is it worth the extra $150.00 for a free float quad rail?

Depends what you plan on adding.

If you are mounting a laser or something to the handguards I would probably use a free float rail so your sighting system has a solid platform to be attached to.

Some people who run VFGs also like the free floating handguards so an aggressive VFG grip wouldn't have an effect on the barrel. That is debatable though and I could take it or leave it.

[roasted]

you could probably save a couple bucks getting something from CTD...

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ItemL...spx?catid=7676

[mizled]

Another quick rail question:

Does a quad rail heat up really fast?

My hk 93 hand guard heats up significantly after about 60-70 rounds and it has an aluminum heat shield in it.

[944]

Originally Posted by mizled

Another quick rail question:

Does a quad rail heat up really fast?

My hk 93 hand guard heats up significantly after about 60-70 rounds and it has an aluminum heat shield in it.

HK93 or C93 ???

[mizled]

Originally Posted by 944

HK93 or C93 ???

Started as a C93, had it rebuilt with a BMP reciever. The barrel, trigger group and all the internals are H&K.

Groups nice.