Going to Med School for the lulz

[gadzooks]

I have a friend about to finish his PhD in criminology who plans to go to med school after graduating.

I should tell him that, according to Optionryder, he wouldn't stand a chance since he didn't take o chem and biochem yet.



Oh, and we might as well go around to elementary and high schools and tell them all that there's no way they'll ever get into med school since they haven't taken o chem or biochem yet.

Sorry, kids, you must already know o chem and biochem or else you will never go to med school.



One does not simply walk into a university and take o chem and biochem.

[The Explanation]

While saying that psyc is a super easy major is a bit of an overstatement, I tend to agree that it doesn't hold a candle to the difficulty of a chem class. Just take o chem and you will understand. You have to live and breathe o chem for a week before the test only to only barely pass. At least thats the way it is for most people.

[gadzooks]

Originally Posted by The Explanation

While saying that psyc is a super easy major is a bit of an overstatement, I tend to agree that it doesn't hold a candle to the difficulty of a chem class. Just take o chem and you will understand. You have to live and breathe o chem for a week before the test only to only barely pass. At least thats the way it is for most people.

I realize that o chem is no walk in the park. I don't think I ever said that I believe otherwise.

The so-called "difficulty-level" of my major does not automatically imply any kind of judgment on how difficult I would find o chem. I didn't choose my major based on something as silly as how hard it would be. I find psychology interesting. I'm good at it. And I think that I could do a lot of good in a research career in psychology.

I really, really want to take o chem now. Almost just so that I can post my grade in here to show some of you. (You're not as big of a dick as optionryder, though).

I've never done poorly in a class before, whether it's chemistry, biology, psychology, philosophy, economics, whatever. I don't see why, with a bit of extra work maybe, I couldn't do just as well in a more advanced chemistry class.

Some morons (i.e. optionryder) reason like this:

"Derp, this person took psychology classes, therefore they cannot succeed at chemistry classes."

The logic here is fucking beyond imbecilic.

Just because I took classes in one subject, I'm automatically retarded when it comes to other subjects. Such stupid reasoning.

[Daily]

The first cadaver I had to dissect in med school was an old lady. I spent about 3 hours palpating her body, cutting through her skin and subcutaneous fat, probing her muscle layers and searching for her nerves and blood vessels. The professor made a huge speech about how we will always remember our first "cut" and all of this shit. After years of doing this shit, he was quite wrong. I barely remember it. I remember the nauseous looks on other student's faces better than the dissection itself. I remember the pile of shit that leaked out of her anus when I palpated her gluteal muscles. You learn over time how different everybody's body is. Some arteries or veins follow different paths than what the textbooks show you. In some people, the left kidney is higher, in some, the right is. Over time, it's difficult to stop viewing these humans with experiences and memories as nothing more than a combination of stinky bullshit. My most interesting experience was dissecting the face and neck.

I don't know if I really "regret" going to med school, but I'm certainly not going to enter the medical industry after I graduate. I was going to do my residency in psychiatry, which has been my ambition for nearly a decade.

[gadzooks]

Originally Posted by Daily

The first cadaver I had to dissect in med school was an old lady...

I don't know if I really "regret" going to med school, but I'm certainly not going to enter the medical industry after I graduate. I was going to do my residency in psychiatry, which has been my ambition for nearly a decade.

If I were to go to med school, I'd go for one of the less... "visceral" specialties. Definitely no surgery or ER.

Probably neurology or psychiatry or something like that.

[The Explanation]

Originally Posted by gadzooks

I realize that o chem is no walk in the park. I don't think I ever said that I believe otherwise.

The so-called "difficulty-level" of my major does not automatically imply any kind of judgment on how difficult I would find o chem. I didn't choose my major based on something as silly as how hard it would be. I find psychology interesting. I'm good at it. And I think that I could do a lot of good in a research career in psychology.

I really, really want to take o chem now. Almost just so that I can post my grade in here to show some of you. (You're not as big of a dick as optionryder, though).

I've never done poorly in a class before, whether it's chemistry, biology, psychology, philosophy, economics, whatever. I don't see why, with a bit of extra work maybe, I couldn't do just as well in a more advanced chemistry class.

Some morons (i.e. optionryder) reason like this:

"Derp, this person took psychology classes, therefore they cannot succeed at chemistry classes."

The logic here is fucking beyond imbecilic.

Just because I took classes in one subject, I'm automatically retarded when it comes to other subjects. Such stupid reasoning.

I didn't mean to imply that you wouldn't be up to the challenge, merely that it's nowhere close to what you're used to dealing with. I feel like part of my opinion on the class though is due to my school's chem department being more rigorous than most. I am taking an upper level psyc as an elective right now, though. So I do have some point of reference.

[gadzooks]

Originally Posted by The Explanation

I didn't mean to imply that you wouldn't be up to the challenge, merely that it's nowhere close to what you're used to dealing with.

First of all, it's a huge assumption.

Just because my major is psychology, it leaves no indication as to what courses I may have taken as electives.

Second of all, maybe it will be like nothing I've ever taken on before. In fact, I don't doubt that it would be.

Originally Posted by The Explanation

I am taking an upper level psyc as an elective right now, though. So I do have some point of reference.

They can vary quite a lot in difficulty, depending on the instructor and what their expectations are, and also on the content itself.

Just out of curiosity, what is the course on, if you don't mind sharing?

[The Explanation]

Originally Posted by gadzooks

They can vary quite a lot in difficulty, depending on the instructor and what their expectations are, and also on the content itself.

Just out of curiosity, what is the course on, if you don't mind sharing?

It's Abnormal Psyc. Admittedly, it is rather easy and probably much more so than most upper level psyc classes. I'm actually considering adding a psyc major just so I don't end up taking a bunch of random electives. I'm a chem major right now.

[gadzooks]

Originally Posted by The Explanation

It's Abnormal Psyc. Admittedly, it is rather easy and probably much more so than most upper level psyc classes.

While the content can affect difficulty, it can also be affected by the prof. Some expect like... 10+ page papers. Others are more chill. Some make the exams really hard, others are more reasonable. Etc.

Originally Posted by The Explanation

I'm actually considering adding a psyc major just so I don't end up taking a bunch of random electives. I'm a chem major right now.

They can go well together.

Check out this thread, where a couple of us are discussing the biochemistry of memory formation:

http://www.zoklet.net/bbs/showthread.php?t=242737

[Gun Lover]

You'd do just fine, just (obviously) don't expect it to be a cakewalk.

I've considered it myself, but residency/other med school bullshit just isn't my thing.

[gadzooks]

Originally Posted by Gun Lover

You'd do just fine, just (obviously) don't expect it to be a cakewalk.

I've considered it myself, but residency/other med school bullshit just isn't my thing.

I've gotta admit, I was only kinda half-serious (maybe 3/4-serious) when making this thread.

While I was actually dead-set on going to med school a few years ago, lately it's just been more of a vague possibility.

I think I'd actually prefer a career in research/academia.

[Optionryder420]

Just saying, man, it's a joke that you come in here with only a degree in psychology and expect to be taken seriously about "Going to Med School for the lulz."

Take your Organic chem courses and then show us you can do it. Don't take my posts too seriously if you're being serious about it, but, like I said, it's hard to believe.

[gadzooks]

Originally Posted by Optionryder420

Just saying, man, it's a joke that you come in here with only a degree in psychology and expect to be taken seriously about "Going to Med School for the lulz."

Take your Organic chem courses and then show us you can do it. Don't take my posts too seriously if you're being serious about it, but, like I said, it's hard to believe.

If my adding the "for the lulz" part makes me come off as condescending or unserious or anything, then I apologize for misleading anyone.

That being said though, you did kinda make a lot of assumptions about me simply based on my major.

I realize that, all else being equal, a psychology course will generally, (but not always!) be easier than a chemistry/physics/math class, etc.... But you really made an unfair assumption and SWEEPING generalization about me.

I was courteous enough not to do the same to you... (What is your major, btw, anyway? I divulged mine....)

Most of my electives were in biology and neuroscience. I'm not as oblivious to the medical sciences as you might think.

[Optionryder420]

I still don't think you know what you're getting yourself into. Taking a few bio classes or neuroscience classes doesn't really add up to the types of classes you will have to take just to get into med school. I mean, in another post here you're saying that a hard psych teacher is one that makes you write 10+ page papers... that's just typical upper level courses, that's not difficult and nowhere near a comparison to Biochem and Organic.

I don't get why my major is relevant here, I'm not the one trying to get into med school. I'm a polisci major, it is also on the lower rungs of academia in my opinion, but to me it's just a piece of paper that will help me get a job... not that it will help that much, I should've gone the compsci route since I work in computers as a DBA/Developer. Let me reiterate, I'm not the one thinking of going to med school.

Good luck, you're going to need it.

[gadzooks]

Originally Posted by Optionryder420

I still don't think you know what you're getting yourself into. Taking a few bio classes or neuroscience classes doesn't really add up to the types of classes you will have to take just to get into med school. I mean, in another post here you're saying that a hard psych teacher is one that makes you write 10+ page papers... that's just typical upper level courses, that's not difficult and nowhere near a comparison to Biochem and Organic.

I don't get why my major is relevant here, I'm not the one trying to get into med school. I'm a polisci major, it is also on the lower rungs of academia in my opinion, but to me it's just a piece of paper that will help me get a job... not that it will help that much, I should've gone the compsci route since I work in computers as a DBA/Developer. Let me reiterate, I'm not the one thinking of going to med school.

Good luck, you're going to need it.

I understand your point that getting into med school is difficult.

But you get it across so rudely and inappropriately.

You make all these unfair and exaggerated assumptions about me or about what I know. What does that accomplish?

And come to think of it, if you yourself haven't taken o chem or biochem yet, then how the hell do you know so much about how difficult it is?

This whole debate has just gotten silly and petty.

[Optionryder420]

Like I said, my girlfriend is in Pharmacy school.

I've taken Chem I and II so I did look through her Organic chem and biochem books. I also saw the amount of work she put into the classes and see on a daily basis the amount of work she puts into pharmacy school.

I get my point across rudely and inappropriately? Are you new here? Quit being such a whiney bitch. When you come up with a topic, "Going to Med School for the lulz," you can't expect people to take you seriously or to not be rude or condescending to you, ESPECIALLY on this website.

[gadzooks]

Originally Posted by Optionryder420

Taking a few bio classes or neuroscience classes doesn't really add up to the types of classes you will have to take just to get into med school.

This is actually wrong.

The pre-reqs to get into med school are, typically:

2 general first-year bio classes.
2 general first-year chem classes.
1 o chem class.
1 biochem class.

So again, all we're talking about is o chem and biochem. Two damn classes.

I could just take them both in one semester and be done with it.

It's silly to make such a hubbub over two damn classes.

Now I'm starting to wonder if this whole thing has really been about you projecting how difficult you would find these classes.

I'm confident enough in my abilities that I could successfully complete, even with pretty decent grades, these two classes, even if they end up being the hardest classes I ever take as an undergrad.

AND: I have seen second year biochem textbooks, and fourth year neuroscience classes definitely do compare, if they're not even more difficult.

[The Explanation]

The problem isn't really the difficulty of the material, it's the large amount of bullshit you have to put up with. Its the premed weed out course. They do things like make 50% of the test over something you spent 1 day in lecture on and lie about what's going to be on the test. Well, thats probably just my professor. But it's infuriating.

[K-9]

I'm doing my first year of residency right now and I have to say it's long hours and hard work. But I still like it. I'm finishing up a year of internal medicine and starting anesthesia in July. It is a lot of hard work though regardless of what field you go into, at least for residency.

I know a few people in my program that went to Caribbean schools and they seemed to have enjoyed it. What's not to love about great weather though?

As far as the classes to get into med school, it's really not that big of a deal and it's exactly like you said. If you're motivated to take those classes then you won't have a problem (though I still kind of dread the memory of O-chem).

Med school itself is lots of hard work, but again if you're motivated to do it then you'll be fine. The vast majority of people who get into med school finish it. But you definitely have to be willing to put in the time and effort, and some parts definitely suck the big one.

If you want to do it then I say go for it.

[Optionryder420]

Originally Posted by gadzooks

This is actually wrong.

The pre-reqs to get into med school are, typically:

2 general first-year bio classes.
2 general first-year chem classes.
1 o chem class.
1 biochem class.

So again, all we're talking about is o chem and biochem. Two damn classes.

I could just take them both in one semester and be done with it.

It's silly to make such a hubbub over two damn classes.

Now I'm starting to wonder if this whole thing has really been about you projecting how difficult you would find these classes.

I'm confident enough in my abilities that I could successfully complete, even with pretty decent grades, these two classes, even if they end up being the hardest classes I ever take as an undergrad.

AND: I have seen second year biochem textbooks, and fourth year neuroscience classes definitely do compare, if they're not even more difficult.

No, they generally require Organic I and II, Physics I, Physics II, and Biochem. On top of all of that, you must have a high GPA in all of these. I'm sure you've read the minimum acceptance GPAs, but these most often are NOT acceptable GPAs for getting into the school.

If these schools see that you graduated with a BA in psychology and then took a course or two a semester of the harder prerequesites, they won't look highly on that. Also, you are forgetting that you have to take the MCAT and score pretty damn decent on that. This isn't undergrad, they don't just take your scores and use that to see if you get in, there's a lot more to it than that.

But hey, like I said, come prove me wrong, I'll always keep an eye on this website.

[gadzooks]

Originally Posted by Optionryder420

No, they generally require Organic I and II, Physics I, Physics II, and Biochem. On top of all of that, you must have a high GPA in all of these.

First of all, not all schools. There are quite a few with variations on that list.

And secondly, even if I have to take physics (which, presumably, I would probably need to anyway for the MCAT), then that's only a couple more courses.

Originally Posted by Optionryder420

I'm sure you've read the minimum acceptance GPAs, but these most often are NOT acceptable GPAs for getting into the school.

I look at average intake GPAs when schools provide such statistics. And then I consider that my minimum.

ex: http://www.washington.edu/uaa/advisi...ds/gpamcat.pdf

What kind of competitive student aims for MINIMUM GPAs...?

Originally Posted by Optionryder420

If these schools see that you graduated with a BA in psychology and then took a course or two a semester of the harder prerequesites, they won't look highly on that.

And, again, how the fuck do you know that?

Admissions people are smarter than you give them credit for. They don't just look at the first four characters before a course name/number (ex: BIOL, PSYC, POLI, PHIL, ANTH) and start making assumptions.

They probably don't even have the time to waste on such a useless screening process.

Originally Posted by Optionryder420

Also, you are forgetting that you have to take the MCAT and score pretty damn decent on that. This isn't undergrad, they don't just take your scores and use that to see if you get in, there's a lot more to it than that.

I know. And EC's and all that. We went over this.

Originally Posted by Optionryder420

But hey, like I said, come prove me wrong, I'll always keep an eye on this website.

As I've at least hinted at throughout this thread, if not outright explicitly stated, I'm not entirely sure I want to go to med school. It's just one option that I am exploring.

But I do plan to take O Chem I and II (and possibly biochem and other similar classes) at some point regardless, and I will update this thread at that point with the results, even if they are subpar (I have nothing to hide and am not ashamed to admit when I'm wrong or bad at something).

[gadzooks]

Originally Posted by The Explanation

The problem isn't really the difficulty of the material, it's the large amount of bullshit you have to put up with. Its the premed weed out course. They do things like make 50% of the test over something you spent 1 day in lecture on and lie about what's going to be on the test.

Some of that is just unethical and against proper academic standards.

A course should not be difficult for those reasons.

In fact, a good school and good professor will do what it takes to make the course material as easy to understand as possible. (Obviously without dumbing it down to the point that it doesn't benefit them).

Originally Posted by The Explanation

Well, thats probably just my professor. But it's infuriating.

I'm sorry to hear that you went through that.

I'm sure there are many out there who aren't like that.

[gadzooks]

Originally Posted by K-9

(though I still kind of dread the memory of O-chem).

The weird thing is that I actually look forward to a class like o chem.

I think that part of that motivation comes from my nearly life-long interest in drugs. (Neuro)Pharmacology is kind of a hobby of mine, and so any chance I have to learn about how a slight difference in a chemical's structure can alter the way it binds to receptors and influence the body and mind, I'm all over it.

And not to mention, learning about the different reactions that can synthesize "household" or common chemicals into psychoactive compounds is another huge interest of mine.

I look forward to my first O chem class like it's gonna be Christmas day or something.

And I definitely won't be going in there with a completely clean slate.

I think that maybe that's why a lot of people in here are talking about o chem as being so tough and scary. For them it's just an unfortunate obstacle to their path as med student or some unfortunate pre-req.

I plan on taking it even if it won't contribute directly to my current degree requirements.

I'm actually intrinsically motivated to take organic chemistry and even biochemistry.

[K-9]

Good for you then, I hope you do enjoy it. I was always more partial to biochem and molecular bio though.

[gadzooks]

Originally Posted by K-9

Good for you then, I hope you do enjoy it.

Thank you.

I wish you success in your residency experience!

Originally Posted by K-9

I was always more partial to biochem and molecular bio though.

Well, like I said, for me the majority of the interest for me comes from neurophysiology, and I think there is a lot of overlap with much of biochem and molecular bio.

For example, in a class I took recently on the neurophysiology of memory, we went into some of the many pathways cAMP can take to induce the structural and biochemical changes involved in maintaining synaptic plasticity. Also, after looking at how motor proteins like myosin and dynein work, I realize that these types of things are not exclusive to neurophysiological processes. The same signal transduction, genetic modifications, and motor protein processes are going on in every system of the body.

And one really cool thing about biochem is that it's like this enormous interconnected map of processes that all influence each other either directly or indirectly. So a signal transduction in one neuron could lead to hormone production and secretion from the endocrine system into the bloodstream, leading to an increase in cellular respiration rates in muscle cells, leading to increased O2 and decreased CO2 exchange via the lungs, and so forth.

It's just fascinating how it's all so interconnected, you know?

It almost makes it somewhat simpler to understand such topics once you realize that.

[K-9]

I'm with you 100% on that. It's incredible how everything is interconnected, and even more amazing that it all works. That's definitely one of the things I loved most about med school, learning how it all happens.

And looking at the big picture is really the only way to get a true understanding. Some people will just try to memorize all the specific tiny details and never really understand how it all comes together. Without that you can't really know what's happening.