Lack of linearity in games.

[m00fire]

Is a horrible thing. No game nowadays wants to reveal all of its content in a single playthrough as a gimmick to make you replay the same shit over and over to get parts of a game that should be appreciated.

Take Skyrim for example, you actually have to make the effort to go out and find bits of game instead of just having them given to you, unlike games such as HL2 that tailor the gameplay to the context that you are in, instead of having you chase it.

I miss games such as FF7-9 with intrinsic storylines that allow you to excurse towards the end, the best of both worlds. Now in RPGs you either have overly linear shit like FFXIII or a splattered mess like FFXIII-II or some other such shit.

Games are getting shitter. They can't focus on a single track, delivering content in context because they have no context. They can't tailor the game to the context as there is no context, and therefore they end up throwing random meaningless shit at you like an ape.

Games don't even seem to invoke emotions or memories anymore, for the sake of trying to force a few replays onto you.

It annoys me a lot.

[cellophane]

So, you want to be spoonfed information in your games instead of taking the time to explore the worlds the devs have made for you? You want mindless games like Halo that only require that you repetatively press a couple of key buttons so that you can get to the next cutscene?

Yeah. Maybe you should stick to watching movies and television. I don't think videogames are for you.

[m00fire]

Yes, I actually do. I think that games do a better job of delivering content when they have a context in mind, rather than just throwing random shit at you that has no meaning whatsoever.

I kinda hoped that open-world games would die out and people would get back to producing games that weren't for autistic manchildren who's idea of fun was being able to put a bucket on a donkey's head and laugh to themselves. Instead of being a niche they have become the norm, to the extent that any game that dares follow a pre-determined storyline is reviled for it's 'linearity'

I wasn't really referring to FPS games as such, I'm more concerned about story-driven games such as RPGs, but it still does apply, like I said, Half Life 2 had an immersive world and it worked. Halo, not so much.

It's like trying to eradicate novels in favour of choose your own adventure books. Being given a path to follow still has its place, as do open-world games but it's a shame to see story-driven games die out as even a hint of linearity in a game is so heavily criticised.

[Eridani]

I don't know, I think all of my favourite RPGs have been non-linear. JRPGs are typically pretty linear while western RPGs tend to have more freedom. I think there's room for both approaches, especially since I can't stand JRPGs.

There's also different ways of going about linearity/strong story driven games. Like Planescape: Torment, Baldur's Gate series, Arcanum, The Witcher 1/2... overall the story is fairly linear and drives the game but you have freedom (whether through choices you make or the order you do things) that gives it more interactivity. So they're highly story driven while still retaining a degree of freedom and open endedness.

FF games, and others like them, basically play like novels... most of the time your choices have very little influence and you're just playing through a set story. This approach works well in FPSs (HL2) where the gameplay lends itself to furthering story development while still being fun (eg. cinematic scripted set pieces which don't take control away from the character... something that was pretty revolutionary in the original HL). In my opinion, this approach in RPGs normally leads to boring gameplay, FF series especially, with its irritatingly frequent cutscenes. I can't remember which one it was but some FF game on PS2, 20 minutes into the game and I still hadn't interacted with the console apart from putting the CD in. Not the way to make a fun game but Asians seem to like it.

Another thing that's important in (some) western RPGs is the creation of a cohesive/believable game world in which players can immerse themselves, explore and feel like they are having an impact. For a lot of people this is what they look for in an RPG. Can be combined with a strong story driven game (witcher 2 say) or just all out make the world the game and fuck story (skyrim/fallout 3 etc.).

There does seem to be a lack of good story driven RPGs though whether linear or more open ended. Skyrim etc. well everyone knows the story is awful, poor writing, no characterisation etc. and with Bioware making action games now there's not many big name titles in this area. Notable exception being The Witcher 2, which is a masterpiece and the best game released for a decade as far as I'm concerned.

So I'd say play Witcher 2 and see if you feel the same about linearity. It manages to have a strong story while giving your choices enough consequences that you feel like you're actually having an impact in a world rather than basically reading a book like most on-rails JRPGs.

[Rolf]

JRPG's , bane of video games according to Rolf... along with MMORPG's.

[Captain Falcon]

Originally Posted by Rolf

JRPG's , bane of video games according to Rolf... along with MMORPG's.

I find it imprudent to paint whole genres with such broad strokes. There are good and bad JRPGs, the same way there are good and bad FPSes and RTSes.

[Snoopy]

Originally Posted by Rolf

JRPG's , bane of video games according to Rolf... along with MMORPG's.

Fortunately, your opinion is on par with a rag down at the bottom of an ocean getting fucked by a starfish.

[ZappaFan]

I would recommend 'Final Fantasy: Mystic Quest'. Its an old ass game that was on the SNES and it is by far the most linear RPG I have ever played. Actually, alot of FF fans didnt like it because it has hardly any depth when you compare it to the others. There are no little extra bits or easter eggs to find. Its very simplistic. At the time, RPGs wernt that big in the states. It was designed to be an entry level RPG game without all the bells and whistles. It may be something to look into if you dont mind the fact that its like 20 years old.

[Captain Falcon]

Originally Posted by Snoopy

Fortunately, your opinion is on par with a rag down at the bottom of an ocean getting fucked by a starfish.

Sig'd

[Rolf]

Originally Posted by Snoopy

Fortunately, your opinion is on par with a rag down at the bottom of an ocean getting fucked by a starfish.

Considering that this is Zoklet Rolf would consider this greatly significant opinion, thank you Beagle for noting the importance of the truthful opinion of Rolf.

[Snoopy]

Originally Posted by Rolf

Considering that this is Zoklet Rolf would consider this greatly significant opinion, thank you Beagle for noting the importance of the truthful opinion of Rolf.

Two things

1) You are visibly upset.

2) Your gimmick slipped.

[Captain Falcon]

In The Thread: Rolf gets destroyed in classical Snoopy fashion, lols Captain Falcon lollingly.

[STD]

Linear can be good... movies are linear after all and they're awesome. And you can rewatch them and notice things you didn't, etc. Same with games.

[Snoopy]

All games are linear by the way. The illusion of an open ended game is just that, an illusion. At least when it comes to storytelling. The only games that have no linear gameplay are MMOs. And only less than 10% of MMOs have non linear gameplay.

I know many of you will reach for your pitchforks and torches but that's the truth. I'm sorry it hurts so bad.

[Pee Vee Proots, M.D.]

Originally Posted by Snoopy

All games are linear by the way. The illusion of an open ended game is just that, an illusion. At least when it comes to storytelling. The only games that have no linear gameplay are MMOs. And only less than 10% of MMOs have non linear gameplay.

I know many of you will reach for your pitchforks and torches but that's the truth. I'm sorry it hurts so bad.

What about games where you can continue playing after the main quest is complete? After all the side quests are complete? Where you can just wander for eternity, alone in a world with uncaring, soulless NPCs? I'd say those are pretty well open ended. The story ends, but your adventures do not.

But yeah, linearity is apparent in pretty much every game. Pretty much the only way a game can be non-linear is if it lacks a story or any tangible reason to continue playing besides your autism, like EVE.

[Snoopy]

Originally Posted by Pee Vee Proots, M.D.

What about games where you can continue playing after the main quest is complete? After all the side quests are complete? Where you can just wander for eternity, alone in a world with uncaring, soulless NPCs? I'd say those are pretty well open ended. The story ends, but your adventures do not.

But yeah, linearity is apparent in pretty much every game. Pretty much the only way a game can be non-linear is if it lacks a story or any tangible reason to continue playing besides your autism, like EVE.

Open ended single player games are boring as hell. The X games (single player Eve Online) are so boring they literally put me to sleep. The Elder Scrolls games are boring AND shitty to boot.

Single player games without a engaging story are generally shit OR they have to have a catchy style of gameplay. Like Tetris for instance.

[ZappaFan]

Originally Posted by ZappaFan

I would recommend 'Final Fantasy: Mystic Quest'. Its an old ass game that was on the SNES and it is by far the most linear RPG I have ever played. Actually, alot of FF fans didnt like it because it has hardly any depth when you compare it to the others. There are no little extra bits or easter eggs to find. Its very simplistic. At the time, RPGs wernt that big in the states. It was designed to be an entry level RPG game without all the bells and whistles. It may be something to look into if you dont mind the fact that its like 20 years old.

Heres a decent review of it...

Final Fantasy Mystic Quest review by Happy Video Game Nerd - YouTube

Final Fantasy Mystic Quest review by Happy Video Game Nerd - YouTube
Video: click to display

[aquabania]

Open world sandbox games where you can still do everything there is to do in one playthough are perfect. GTA is a good example.

[m00fire]

Originally Posted by ZappaFan

Heres a decent review of it...
Final Fantasy Mystic Quest review by Happy Video Game Nerd - YouTube

I remember that game, was pretty fun but it seemes to be a little too dumbed down, not only the gameplay was affected but the storyline also seemed a bit weak.

I did like how the enemies' animations changed when they were at low health and how you could use weapons to interact with the environment. It didn't seem to be up there with the other games I was playing at the time. (FF6, Chronotrigger)

Still a nice bit of nostalgia though.

[AsylumSeaker]

Diablo 3? I mean everything about it is linear. You progress along a linear quest plot, your character progression is linear, and the progression of the gameplay difficulty is linear: over time you have to click on more things, more often. Sure, sometimes the things have a new colour, but other than that Diablo 3 can be expressed with this graph:

[delysid]

Moderation is key.
You can't have all games linear, it would just kill the video game industry. The good thing about open world FPS/TPS/RPG's is that YOU drive the story. People don't always want to play a game for the story (especially when in a linear game, where the gameplay is excellent, but the story is just plain fucking shite), they want the gameplay or the escapism (or the lulz). Being able to explore and do something different, can be more immersive (or fun) than just having the story lead you around all the time, telling you what's what (which is great sometimes, don't get me wrong).
If anything, open world and linear games are two completely different kettles of fish. Apples and oranges man.

[moron]

Originally Posted by m00fire

Games don't even seem to invoke emotions or memories anymore

sounds like a personal problem

[ZappaFan]

Originally Posted by m00fire

I remember that game, was pretty fun but it seemes to be a little too dumbed down, not only the gameplay was affected but the storyline also seemed a bit weak.

I did like how the enemies' animations changed when they were at low health and how you could use weapons to interact with the environment. It didn't seem to be up there with the other games I was playing at the time. (FF6, Chronotrigger)

Still a nice bit of nostalgia though.

I broke out my SNES and played Mystic Quest for the first time in like 12 or 13 years. I forgot how good, or bad, the game was so Im given it another playthrough.

The worst thing about the game is that it is way too easy. The lack of challenge does make the game pretty boring for me. I never felt that I was in danger. And when you do die in battle, you can continue right were you left off. There isnt any customization... at all. You are always equip with the best weapons you have and you cant enhance your weapon with upgrades. Its an RPG stripped down to its bare minimum. The reviewer was right about the music though. It has some great tunes, especially the battle music. Its not a terrible game, but its a long way from being a good game.