New open source console in the works on Kickstarter, needs less than a million to go

[Shrike]

Originally Posted by Rust

If they are on android, they can run on Ouya

[citation needed]

I don't think I'm being trolled. These people are known in the industry, and have a reputation to protect. It seems ridiculous to suggest, without any good reason, that they will risk all their reputation for a shitty product or "trolling".

Really? I've certainly never heard of them. It's not like if Miyamoto left Nintendo to make his own console- that would be a name you could trust. Not these random nobodies.

I don't mean that they are literally trolling in the forum sense of the word, rather that they are making a pretty vague presentation with little concrete evidence for anything, and dummies like you are throwing money at them. Don't be surprised if it comes and bites you in the ass.

Plus the whole concept of using Android on a fixed console is so retarded. Ouya will run on Android 4.0 "Ice Cream Sandwich". They are already coming out with tablets running Android 4.1 "Jellybean". The thing's going to be obsolete before it even comes out

[Rust]

Originally Posted by Shrike

[citation needed]

Citation of what? That's the whole point of an OS. I'm not sure what type of "citation" you think would show you that. How about android games running on another android console?

MiGen Game Console Controller Test Shadowgun.wmv - YouTube

MiGen Game Console Controller Test Shadowgun.wmv - YouTube
Video: click to display

Really? I've certainly never heard of them. It's not like if Miyamoto left Nintendo to make his own console- that would be a name you could trust. Not these random nobodies.

Yeah, you haven't heard of them. That doesn't mean they aren't known in the industry. Among the whole team are Yves Béhar, who designed the OLPC, a guy who lead the team that built the kindle, a VP from IGN and another VP from microsoft.

I'm not saying they have the name-recognition among laymen that Miyamoto does, I'm saying they have a reputation in the industry. You don't reach VP of major companies without being successful in your career, and having wealth.

Plus the whole concept of using Android on a fixed console is so retarded. Ouya will run on Android 4.0 "Ice Cream Sandwich". They are already coming out with tablets running Android 4.1 "Jellybean". The thing's going to be obsolete before it even comes out

Yeah, that's not true. First of all, operating systems can be updated. It's shipping with Ice Cream Sandwich (because Jelly Bean just released and there's almost no hardware using it so far). That doesn't mean it can't be upgraded.

Second of all, none of those games listed require Jelly Bean. They probably don't even require Ice Cream Sandwich. You don't need the latest and greatest version of android to run those games.

[Psych]

Originally Posted by Rust

The more likely scenario? According to who? What are you basing that on? Nothing. You're making shit up.

I can understand saying that's a risk - I agree, it is a risk; a risk I'm willing to take because I have the money to spare - but to say that it's the most likely scenario is utter bullshit.

What? How can I have an opinion on future events without making shit up.

I'm basing it on this having been tried before and failed. These guys couldn't make it and they had way more experience in the business.

What are you basing the idea that it gets developed on? Their business model that they refuse to talk about? The fact is they aren't saying shit about how they plan to develop this console. Who invests without knowing where their money is going to be spent? When will investors be able to see some profits? There is no information to base any of that on. So I would say in this scenario, the risk reward ratio is not worth it.

[Rust]

Originally Posted by Psych

What? How can I have an opinion on future events without making shit up.

I'm basing it on this having been tried before and failed. These guys couldn't make it and they had way more experience in the business.

What are you basing the idea that it gets developed on? Their business model that they refuse to talk about? The fact is they aren't saying shit about how they plan to develop this console. Who invests without knowing where their money is going to be spent? When will investors be able to see some profits? There is no information to base any of that on. So I would say in this scenario, the risk reward ratio is not worth it.

Saying the most likely scenario is that it won't be made isn't really an opinion is it? It's talking about the probability of an event, and worse yet saying that it has the highest probability of it happening.

That list you provided actually argues against you. Those consoles WERE built, were as you claimed the most likely scenario is that it won't even be built. It's one thing to claim that it won't be a big commercial success (which I agree is the riskiest part of this whole thing), and quite another to claim that it won't even be built.

Where are you getting this nonsense that they "refute to talk about" their business model or where they will spend their money? Hell, where are you getting ANY of that from?

[Shrike]

Originally Posted by Rust

Citation of what? That's the whole point of an OS. I'm not sure what type of "citation" you think would show you that. How about android games running on another android console?

MiGen Game Console Controller Test Shadowgun.wmv - YouTube

I love how your proof is yet another independent console project except this one is basically non-existent: http://www.indiegogo.com/MiGen

My issue is with the idea that Android games developed for tablets and smartphones will be able to run on Ouya just straight out of the box. We don't know, because it hasn't been done, but it seems like they would need to be ported across by the developer. The controls of Ouya are obviously very different to a tablet, not to mention what a game designed for a 5 or ten inch screen is going to look like blown up to a big tv's size. I mean that just seems obvious. So publishers are going to have to decide whether it's worth their time to do that for the tiny install base that Ouya will have, compared to the millions of other Android or iOS devices they could be developing for.

Yeah, that's not true. First of all, operating systems can be updated. It's shipping with Ice Cream Sandwich (because Jelly Bean just released and there's almost no hardware using it so far). That doesn't mean it can't be upgraded.

Second of all, none of those games listed require Jelly Bean. They probably don't even require Ice Cream Sandwich. You don't need the latest and greatest version of android to run those games.

It points out the problem though doesn't it. They're putting cheap mobile hardware in a box, in a market that evolves so rapidly the next version of the OS is out before they've even brought out the console. Ouya is going to be hilariously outdated inside a year.

Originally Posted by Rust

Where are you getting this nonsense that they "refute to talk about" their business model or where they will spend their money? Hell, where are you getting ANY of that from?

Originally Posted by Ouya Kickstarter page

Lots of you have asked for more details on the games that OUYA will support at launch. After all, we are a game console, it makes sense that we’d be talking games!

We’ve purposely been pretty tight lipped about our launch slate, but throughout our Kickstarter run, we’ve been having some exciting conversations behind the scenes. We’d love to fill you in on everything, but it’s just not possible. (And we’d have some legal teams coming after us!) That said, we’ve got great news from NAMCO BANDAI to share:

"NAMCO BANDAI Games and OUYA are currently in active discussions to bring some of the world's biggest gaming properties to the exciting new open gaming platform. NAMCO BANDAI brings with it a rich history of iconic gaming franchises, from classics like PAC-MAN and GALAGA, to seminal franchises like TEKKEN and Ridge Racer, and we're excited to explore how we can work with OUYA to bring some great titles to the forthcoming console."
-- Carlson Choi, Vice President of Marketing, NAMCO BANDAI Games America, Inc.

I know what I want from Namco Bandai on OUYA but we want to hear from you. Head to the Namco/OUYA Facebook page, and cast your vote for any games you’d like to see.

They've been tight-lipped about their launch slate because they barely have one. They're in "active discussions" with Namco about maybe bringing some of their games to it. What does that mean, "active discussions". They haven't got any names, they name drop some that Namco have previous released. Then the last paragraph makes it seem like the idiot backers have any say in which game gets released. To me this reads like "we emailed Namco and they emailed back once".

Their big games announcement is that they are talking to a studio about maybe putting some games on there perhaps. It's pathetic and could not have less detail.

[Rust]

Originally Posted by Shrike

I love how your proof is yet another independent console project...

Exactly... the very thing you're questioning. It's another android console, with even less support that Ouya, playing one the games in the table you cited earlier. How in the world does that not support what I said?

Or are you suggesting the developer of Shadowgun spent time porting their game to a virtually unheard of android console?

My issue is with the idea that Android games developed for tablets and smartphones will be able to run on Ouya just straight out of the box. We don't know, because it hasn't been done, but it seems like they would need to be ported across by the developer.

No, it has been done. I already showed you the video of it playing on another android console. See above. The game doesn't need to be ported to run. Developers don't need to port PC games once new PC hardware comes along. Android developers don't need to recreate their games once a new cellphone comes a long. So long as the CPU architecture is the same, and it runs the operating system it's supposed to run on, it doesn't need to be ported.

So publishers are going to have to decide whether it's worth their time to do that for the tiny install base that Ouya will have, compared to the millions of other Android or iOS devices they could be developing for.

Yeah, I already said that. The point is the games and apps don't need to be ported or recreated to run. The developers will add official support to the controllers or resolution when and if the fan-base is enough to make it worth their while. I understand that.

It points out the problem though doesn't it. They're putting cheap mobile hardware in a box, in a market that evolves so rapidly the next version of the OS is out before they've even brought out the console. Ouya is going to be hilariously outdated inside a year.

No, not really. You're operating under the baseless assumption that being one version off from android (which, again, can be updated making this whole point a non-issue) is somehow significantly problematic. How? The games shown here do not depend on Jelly Bean, or even Ice Cream Sandwich. I can run most if not all of those games in my android devices, and I don't even have Ice Cream Sandwich.

So how is this going to be "hilariously outdated" if the operating system can be updated, and if the games don't depend on the OS version you want it to have anyway?

[crazzyass]

Originally Posted by Rust

Saying the most likely scenario is that it won't be made isn't really an opinion is it? It's talking about the probability of an event, and worse yet saying that it has the highest probability of it happening.

That list you provided actually argues against you. Those consoles WERE built, were as you claimed the most likely scenario is that it won't even be built. It's one thing to claim that it won't be a big commercial success (which I agree is the riskiest part of this whole thing), and quite another to claim that it won't even be built.

Where are you getting this nonsense that they "refute to talk about" their business model or where they will spend their money? Hell, where are you getting ANY of that from?

The $8.6 million raised already makes it a commercial success to some degree. Usually when you're raising money, you're either A) Taking out loans, or B) Giving ownership of your company away to VC. These guys raised money by convincing customers to pay them in advance, basically. That's awesome. You cannot go wrong with that. They don't have loans to pay back or profit going to other backers, just $8.6 million of guaranteed revenue for their first year, minimum.

[Captain Falcon]

Originally Posted by Rust

require Jelly Bean

Damn straight.

[Psych]

Originally Posted by crazzyass

They don't have loans to pay back or profit going to other backers, just $8.6 million of guaranteed revenue for their first year, minimum.

And they take a huge loss. How much do you think it will cost to produce one unit? The bill of materials alone would cost more than a hundred, then add in marketing and all that bullshit. If you invested at first I guess it's a good deal if it ever gets to being produced at all. The company won't profit off that, though. They'll need to invest another large chunk of money retailing it to a broad enough audience that it becomes lucrative to create games for it or it becomes another piece of hardware that was before one's time.

It's a $30 million dollar commitment to developing a new smart-phone and this is basically the same thing. Where's the extra $22 million going to come from?

[crazzyass]

Originally Posted by Psych

And they take a huge loss. How much do you think it will cost to produce one unit? The bill of materials alone would cost more than a hundred, then add in marketing and all that bullshit. If you invested at first I guess it's a good deal if it ever gets to being produced at all. The company won't profit off that, though. They'll need to invest another large chunk of money retailing it to a broad enough audience that it becomes lucrative to create games for it or it becomes another piece of hardware that was before one's time.

It's a $30 million dollar commitment to developing a new smart-phone and this is basically the same thing. Where's the extra $22 million going to come from?

What are you talking about? They already have their customers. This wasn't venture capitalism, it was people paying it advance. Pro-tip: hardware isn't expensive. This thing will easily cost less than $100 in parts. They don't have to invest more money for anything, much less retailing. They just earned tens of thousands of customers that paid them in advance, plus tons of coverage. If it all goes well, the customers will come in. And if they don't, they already had a tidy sales year considering they have no debt and all of their equity.

Source on the $30 million? Unless you're reinventing the transistor, that's a widely inflated budget. Popular Mechanics had an article showing how you could pretty much create and sell your own tablet with an investment of less than $10,000 (or thereabouts). The tech isn't complicated and the parts aren't expensive.

[Shrike]

Originally Posted by Rust

Exactly... the very thing you're questioning. It's another android console, with even less support that Ouya, playing one the games in the table you cited earlier. How in the world does that not support what I said?

Because it's an Ouya clone, with $0 funding that's trying to cash in on the funding success of Ouya. If Ouya has little legitimacy, then these guys have none. Their badly spelled project just reeks of a scam, even more than Ouya does. Their video is probably just running on a PC, who's to say otherwise? A Youtube video with 100 views?

Get some better sources or stfu.

No, not really. You're operating under the baseless assumption that being one version off from android (which, again, can be updated making this whole point a non-issue) is somehow significantly problematic. How? The games shown here do not depend on Jelly Bean, or even Ice Cream Sandwich. I can run most if not all of those games in my android devices, and I don't even have Ice Cream Sandwich.

So how is this going to be "hilariously outdated" if the operating system can be updated, and if the games don't depend on the OS version you want it to have anyway?

I said it showed the problem, not that it was the whole problem. The other side of the coin is hardware. Ouya is going to be stuck with current hardware while newer Android devices come out with the latest chips. The mobile market is still young, hardware (and software) move on super fast. How long will it be before Ouya is too underpowered to play the latest (ported) Android games? Try updating an Iphone 3G to the latest iOS version and play the latest games and see how well you do.

And by the way, it isn't as simple as all that to update the system to the latest Android version. The device manufacturer has to do it and decide it's worth their time to update an old device when they could just release a new one that's optimised for the latest version. Again, we don't know how that will work with Ouya, but if huge manufacturers like Acer and Samsung are slow with that, imagine how some tin-shed outfit like Ouya is going to do.

Originally Posted by crazzyass

What are you talking about? They already have their customers. This wasn't venture capitalism, it was people paying it advance. Pro-tip: hardware isn't expensive. This thing will easily cost less than $100 in parts.

Assembly costs? Shipping?

[crazzyass]

Originally Posted by Shrike

Because it's an Ouya clone, with $0 funding that's trying to cash in on the funding success of Ouya. If Ouya has little legitimacy, then these guys have none. Their badly spelled project just reeks of a scam, even more than Ouya does. Their video is probably just running on a PC, who's to say otherwise? A Youtube video with 100 views?

Get some better sources or stfu.



I said it showed the problem, not that it was the whole problem. The other side of the coin is hardware. Ouya is going to be stuck with current hardware while newer Android devices come out with the latest chips. The mobile market is still young, hardware (and software) move on super fast. How long will it be before Ouya is too underpowered to play the latest (ported) Android games? Try updating an Iphone 3G to the latest iOS version and play the latest games and see how well you do.

And by the way, it isn't as simple as all that to update the system to the latest Android version. The device manufacturer has to do it and decide it's worth their time to update an old device when they could just release a new one that's optimised for the latest version. Again, we don't know how that will work with Ouya, but if huge manufacturers like Acer and Samsung are slow with that, imagine how some tin-shed outfit like Ouya is going to do.




Assembly costs? Shipping?

Could still easily be cheap as balls with assembly and shipping. They included extra for shipping on their page.

[Rust]

Originally Posted by Shrike

Because it's an Ouya clone, with $0 funding that's trying to cash in on the funding success of Ouya. If Ouya has little legitimacy, then these guys have none. Their badly spelled project just reeks of a scam, even more than Ouya does. Their video is probably just running on a PC, who's to say otherwise? A video with 100 views?

You're making my point for me. That awful, shitty, worthless Ouya clone can run Shadowgun. Unless you're suggesting that the developer of Shadowgun spent time porting their game to a virtually unheard of android console, then you must concede that android consoles can play the games without requiring any porting.

I said it showed the problem, not that it was the whole problem.

And you failed to show what the problem was because not only can the OS be updated rendering this "problem" non-existent, but the games being cited don't depend on Jelly Bean, or even Ice Cream Sandwich.

How long will it be before Ouya is too underpowered to play the latest (ported) Android games?

No clue. Judging by the fact that I can play most android games on my devices, and judging by the fact that the Ouya is pretty powerful compared to what's on offer right now, I think it will be more than a year. And even then that will be the cutting-edge games, which doesn't mean the console will be useless or any less fun.

Game/app developers lose potential customers if they develop their games/apps to work only on the cutting edge hardware. It's not in their interest to develop something that will only work on a tiny portion of the android market. It's in their interest to develop something that's scalable and works well with the different processing powers of the tablets and phones out there.

[Psych]

Originally Posted by crazzyass

What are you talking about? They already have their customers. This wasn't venture capitalism, it was people paying it advance. Pro-tip: hardware isn't expensive. This thing will easily cost less than $100 in parts. They don't have to invest more money for anything, much less retailing. They just earned tens of thousands of customers that paid them in advance, plus tons of coverage. If it all goes well, the customers will come in. And if they don't, they already had a tidy sales year considering they have no debt and all of their equity.

Bullshit it would cost less than a hundred dollars to make. Samsung has not even announced how much the cpu will sell for but it's predicting over $100. That's just the chip set, so combined with a plastic box and controller and whatever other hardware they need (wifi, etc), it will cost well over a hundred for one unit. Either way it's impossible to say what their profits would be on the units already sold.

Then they will need to sell an additional 300 thousand units to become as much as a failure as the virtual boy was. How many more units would it be necessary to sell to see a profitable future? Anyone's guess. How much will it cost to advertise to that many people?

Source on the $30 million? Unless you're reinventing the transistor, that's a widely inflated budget. Popular Mechanics had an article showing how you could pretty much create and sell your own tablet with an investment of less than $10,000 (or thereabouts). The tech isn't complicated and the parts aren't expensive.

The source is RIM, that's how much they say it costs them to go from start to finish on a newly designed phone. I imagine the processes are comparable. RIM has to worry about licensing and such for cell frequencies and OUYA will have to worry about licensing of software and netflix or whatever.

[Rust]

Originally Posted by Psych

Bullshit it would cost less than a hundred dollars to make. Samsung has not even announced how much the cpu will sell for but it's predicting over $100. That's just the chip set, so combined with a plastic box and controller and whatever other hardware they need (wifi, etc), it will cost well over a hundred for one unit.

What are you talking about? Why are you bringing up Samsung? What Samsung device are you comparing it to, and why is there CPU costs relevant? The chip used by Ouya is a Tegra 3. The Tegra 3 costs WAY less than $100.

So what are you referring to?

[Captain Falcon]

Fact: PS Vita costs $160 to make

http://www.destructoid.com/ps-vita-3...9-220036.phtml

Fact: This includes an extremely good looking, fairly high resolution AMOLED multitouch display, battery and all it's twiddly little physical parts included

Fact: The teardown pegs the quad core chipset at only $16

Fact: Most probably, without the big fat expensive screen and most of the other chunky bullshit surrounding it, the Ouya won't cost anywhere near $100 to make. In any case, as Rust has pointed out before, Kickstarter most probably isn't even going to be their prime funding but a demonstration that people are literally prepared to throw money at this, that there's a demand for and potential for growth in the device.

Gooby pls.

[Rust]

The Tegra 3 costs about $15-25. And that's probably the most expensive part, like you said.

[crazzyass]

Originally Posted by Rust

The Tegra 3 costs about $15-25. And that's probably the most expensive part, like you said.

I'd be shocked if the total bill of materials exceeded $50. And even if it touched $60, 40% is considered pretty good.

[MiGen]

Hi im Josh from MiGen. If you have any questions fill free to ask me.

[Captain Falcon]

Originally Posted by MiGen

Hi im Josh from MiGen. If you have any questions fill free to ask me.

Shut up, mud farmer

[Snoopy]

Originally Posted by MiGen

Hi im Josh from MiGen. If you have any questions fill free to ask me.

Fill what free?

[Captain Falcon]

Originally Posted by Snoopy

Fill what free?

Diet Coke

[MiGen]

Some of the members where asking questions about the MiGen that's the only reason i signed up here to help answer them.

Mud Farmer? that's what you got? I see this forum has some kids on it.

[Shrike]

Originally Posted by MiGen

Some of the members where asking questions about the MiGen that's the only reason i signed up here to help answer them.

Mud Farmer? that's what you got? I see this forum has some kids on it.

What, did you just google your stupid school science project and sign up to every forum that someone mentioned it on?

[Snoopy]

Originally Posted by MiGen

Some of the members where asking questions about the MiGen that's the only reason i signed up here to help answer them.

Mud Farmer? that's what you got? I see this forum has some kids on it.

"Baller skool graduate."

[Captain Falcon]

Originally Posted by Shrike

What, did you just google your stupid school science project and sign up to every forum that someone mentioned it on?

Either that or he's some faggot with an alt account, more probably the latter.

Originally Posted by Snoopy

"Baller skool graduate."

Damn girl, you one chill ass nigga

[Lanny]

I realize this MiGen guy is probably a troll, but none the less I don't want to let an internet random encounter pass me by.

Kinda like when the drawball admin came to zoklet to help us do the &T thing.

[ThunderDownUnder]

Why are people arguing about this console?

If it takes off, awesome, more variety.

If it is a flop, there will be things to learn from whatever reason(s) it does.

I just don't see a problem with innovation and creativity...Without people putting out new devices on new platforms, we are just going to be playing on PS6 and X Box 1080 stuck in the same old shit.

I understand that some people are apprehensive because of them not knowing who the creators of this console are, but everybody starts off as a noob...Good on them for not trying to ride off of other people's success to 'create a name' for themselves.