Obama administration denies Holocaust

[HAS]

The Obama administration has said it will seek to block a controversial bill describing as genocide the World War I killing of [about 1.5 million] Armenians by Turks.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8553013.stm

[-SpectraL]

These animals have no regard for accurate history. Their only goals are more money and more power.

[supperrfreek]

Considering the fact that we use Turkey as a launching point for our activities in the Middle East, this is kinda predictable. It's not exactly right, but it is shockingly predictable.

[Fractals]

The Holocaust was in WWII, not WWI like this bill is about.

[Kleenotse]

Originally Posted by Fractals

The Holocaust was in WWII, not WWI like this bill is about.

Armenian holocaust you idiot.

[Fractals]

From that article:

A similar resolution was approved by the same committee two years ago, but did not go forward to the House after pressure from the George W Bush administration.

but...

During his campaign for the 2008 election, Mr Obama promised to brand the mass killings genocide.

[Fractals]

Originally Posted by Kleenotse

Armenian holocaust you idiot.

Armenian genocide, you idiot. Holocaust is the name given to the genocide of jews in WWII by the Nazis.

[AngryOnion]

History goes to the victors.

[water bottle]

As an Armenian, I am disgusted, because this genocide has been written over by history . As a Turk, I am happy, because this is all bullshit . As a Brazilian, I like wearing thongs and SAMBA!!!!!

[-SpectraL]

These pathetic criminals will even try to rewrite world history if you all let them. The Egyptians did the same thing in their hieroglyphs.

[(´･ω･`)]

Originally Posted by Fractals

Armenian genocide, you idiot. Holocaust is the name given to the genocide of jews in WWII by the Nazis.

I guess that means Cannibal Holocaust was a documentary shot in the Polish rainforest.

[LSA King]

He would be about what...the 10th president to deny the holocaust? Nothing really new to be honest, however, most people had high hopes Obama would be different, guess what? NIGGA LIED MUTHA FUCKAS HAHAHHAHAHAHA



I fucking told ya'll I don't vote because you change one lying asshole for ANOTHER bigger lying asshole

[Sargeras0000]

This bill has been proposed about 50 times in the past several decades. Obama's hardly the first to block it. I'd say we should be more concerned over the hundred of Congressmen who have pushed it from the floor or voted against it in its history.

[(´･ω･`)]

Originally Posted by LSA King

He would be about what...the 10th president to deny the holocaust? Nothing really new to be honest, however, most people had high hopes Obama would be different, guess what? NIGGA LIED MUTHA FUCKAS HAHAHHAHAHAHA



I fucking told ya'll I don't vote because you change one lying asshole for ANOTHER bigger lying asshole

It's kind of like those achievements you have in modern vido gäms. You don't really want to perform the required tasks (put up with some douchebag), but because you don't have the achievement yet (elect black president), you strive (vote) for it.

[L33tz]

Haha, what a sad joke this all is.

Actors putting on a show. debating whether or not to call something by for what it is.

[JustAnotherAsshole]

Originally Posted by supperrfreek

Considering the fact that we use Turkey as a launching point for our activities in the Middle East, this is kinda predictable. It's not exactly right, but it is shockingly predictable.

This. It's not as if Obama himself believes that this wasn't genocide. It's about relations with the Turks.

Also, the term "Holocaust" refers specifically to the WW2 genocide of Jews and the rest.

EDIT: Besides, what the hell does it matter whether or not we call it a genocide. It's obvious that these people were killed for their ethnicity, isn't it?

[HAS]

Originally Posted by JustAnotherAsshole

This. It's not as if Obama himself believes that this wasn't genocide. It's about relations with the Turks.

Also, the term "Holocaust" refers specifically to the WW2 genocide of Jews and the rest.

You don't know what you're talking about, do you?

[JustAnotherAsshole]

Originally Posted by HAS

You don't know what you're talking about, do you?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/holocaust

Or were you questioning the bit about Obama doing this for foreign relations?

[Fractals]

Originally Posted by HAS

You don't know what you're talking about, do you?

Everything he said was true, you're just butthurt about your sensationalist and missleading thread title getting pointed out.

[stupid noob]

System of a down is gonna be fucking pissed. Also, related:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3WSnlP1Ijs

[LSA King]

Are we really referencing Holocaust as only being a Jew Thang? If so, what a dull argument which I find many nations around the world who's people faced genocide might find insulting. Holocaust stemmed from the word that existed long before it in the English dictionary, Genocide. Just because the Jews coined the word and made it there own just goes to show you how powerful and manipulative they are if anything. I mean how often do you find a word guaranteed to an entire people in a languages vocabulary? It's also a subliminal message that is sent as you can't use the word without immediately bringing the guilt trip of our historical brainwashing about the Holocaust and Jews.

I find the word itself disgusting and every time I hear it I cringe with absolute rage at peoples guilt. Jews weren't the first people to die in a mass homicide by fire, but they are the first to create a word specifically for an action that happened towards them. Even then thats still debated in countries that lack free speech like Germany where Ernst Zundel was arrested for 7 years for questioning the Holocaust mainline story/Denying the Holocaust. Wow, what a progressive world we have become, I guess it must be exactly as they say since they have made it a crime to say anything otherwise.

[crazzyass]

As much of a bitch move that it is, it is probably the best solution. Calling it genocide does not bring the Armenians back or change what happened. However, calling it genocide does fuck up our relations with Turkey, and they're one of our most important Middle East allies next to Saudi Arabia.

Judging from the campaign, Obama wanted very much to call them out on it, but now that he's in office he sees the impracticality of fucking over our relations. It could be considered a matter of national security, especially if Turkish intelligence services stop working with ours.

[water bottle]

Originally Posted by LSA King

Are we really referencing Holocaust as only being a Jew Thang? If so, what a dull argument which I find many nations around the world who's people faced genocide might find insulting. Holocaust stemmed from the word that existed long before it in the English dictionary, Genocide. Just because the Jews coined the word and made it there own just goes to show you how powerful and manipulative they are if anything. I mean how often do you find a word guaranteed to an entire people in a languages vocabulary? It's also a subliminal message that is sent as you can't use the word without immediately bringing the guilt trip of our historical brainwashing about the Holocaust and Jews.

I find the word itself disgusting and every time I hear it I cringe with absolute rage at peoples guilt. Jews weren't the first people to die in a mass homicide by fire, but they are the first to create a word specifically for an action that happened towards them. Even then thats still debated in countries that lack free speech like Germany where Ernst Zundel was arrested for 7 years for questioning the Holocaust mainline story/Denying the Holocaust. Wow, what a progressive world we have become, I guess it must be exactly as they say since they have made it a crime to say anything otherwise.

Yeah, what jerks. The nerve of them! Applying the word "holocaust" to their horrifying experiences! Keeping the word "holocaust" all for themselves! Greedy Jews .

Honestly, antisemitism is just getting so tl;dr.

[HAS]

Originally Posted by JustAnotherAsshole

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/holocaust

From your own source:
"any mass slaughter or reckless destruction of life."

[water bottle]

Originally Posted by crazzyass

As much of a bitch move that it is, it is probably the best solution. Calling it genocide does not bring the Armenians back or change what happened. However, calling it genocide does fuck up our relations with Turkey, and they're one of our most important Middle East allies next to Saudi Arabia.

Agreed. Official recognition is inconsequential, and relations with Turkey are a fuckload more important than officially recognizing something any reasonably unbiased textbook would openly acknowledge.

[crazzyass]

Oh, and for the record: "holocaust- 1. Great destruction resulting in the extensive loss of life, especially by fire" http://www.thefreedictionary.com/holocaust

It can be applied to any extensive loss of life. No one here has heard the term "nuclear holocaust?" Really? Anyways, I agree that the term is used a little too exclusively by the Jews. It's not anti-semitism, it's simply a fact. Technically, the WWII Holocaust term only encompasses the Jews that died, and ignores the more than 7 or 8 million other people that were systematically killed as well (gays, Poles, disabled individuals, etc).

"Some scholars maintain that the definition of the Holocaust should also include the Nazis' systematic murder of millions of people in other groups, including ethnic Poles, Romani, Soviet civilians, Soviet prisoners of war, people with disabilities, homosexuals, Jehovah's Witnesses, and other political and religious opponents.[5] By this definition, the total number of Holocaust victims would be between 11 million and 17 million people.[6]" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust

More nonJews were killed than actual Jews. So people should really stop bitching about how just the Jews were picked on and exterminated. They were actually a minority of those systematically killed.

[JustAnotherAsshole]

Originally Posted by HAS

From your own source:
"any mass slaughter or reckless destruction of life."

Specifically, "Holocaust" is used to refer to the genocide that took place during WW2 and you know it.

Originally Posted by crazzyass

Oh, and for the record: "holocaust- 1. Great destruction resulting in the extensive loss of life, especially by fire" http://www.thefreedictionary.com/holocaust

It can be applied to any extensive loss of life. No one here has heard the term "nuclear holocaust?" Really? Anyways, I agree that the term is used a little too exclusively by the Jews. It's not anti-semitism, it's simply a fact. Technically, the WWII Holocaust term only encompasses the Jews that died, and ignores the more than 7 or 8 million other people that were systematically killed as well (gays, Poles, disabled individuals, etc).

"Some scholars maintain that the definition of the Holocaust should also include the Nazis' systematic murder of millions of people in other groups, including ethnic Poles, Romani, Soviet civilians, Soviet prisoners of war, people with disabilities, homosexuals, Jehovah's Witnesses, and other political and religious opponents.[5] By this definition, the total number of Holocaust victims would be between 11 million and 17 million people.[6]" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust

More nonJews were killed than actual Jews. So people should really stop bitching about how just the Jews were picked on and exterminated. They were actually a minority of those systematically killed.

They were the largest minority as well as the primary target. Everyone who payed attention in middle school knows it wasn't just Jews.

And Holocaust, while it can be loosely used, is still almost exclusively used to describe the genocide during WW2. It was first applied to the killing of people after WW2, wasn't it?

[Yggdrasil]

Sucks ass for the Armenians. They had been trying to undermine and break away from the Ottoman Empire since waves of nationalism had swept the Empire in the 19th century, and come WWI they took the war as an opportunity to stir shit for the Ottoman government. The Sultan's solution? He forcibly marched almost 2 million Armenians into a fucking desert with no food or water and left them to die. Ehh...

[DJ Meaty Cheeks]

Originally Posted by LSA King

Are we really referencing Holocaust as only being a Jew Thang? If so, what a dull argument which I find many nations around the world who's people faced genocide might find insulting. Holocaust stemmed from the word that existed long before it in the English dictionary, Genocide. Just because the Jews coined the word and made it there own just goes to show you how powerful and manipulative they are if anything. I mean how often do you find a word guaranteed to an entire people in a languages vocabulary? It's also a subliminal message that is sent as you can't use the word without immediately bringing the guilt trip of our historical brainwashing about the Holocaust and Jews.

I find the word itself disgusting and every time I hear it I cringe with absolute rage at peoples guilt. Jews weren't the first people to die in a mass homicide by fire, but they are the first to create a word specifically for an action that happened towards them. Even then thats still debated in countries that lack free speech like Germany where Ernst Zundel was arrested for 7 years for questioning the Holocaust mainline story/Denying the Holocaust. Wow, what a progressive world we have become, I guess it must be exactly as they say since they have made it a crime to say anything otherwise.

Leave it to the Jews to be attention/drama whores.

Its not like attempted genocide is anything new, Nazi Germany was just better at it than previous genocide attempts. That famous German efficiency you hear about and all.

[dysik]

Originally Posted by LSA King

He would be about what...the 10th president to deny the holocaust? Nothing really new to be honest, however, most people had high hopes Obama would be different, guess what? NIGGA LIED MUTHA FUCKAS HAHAHHAHAHAHA



I fucking told ya'll I don't vote because you change one lying asshole for ANOTHER bigger lying asshole

if you dont vote, dont fucking whinge

[crazzyass]

Originally Posted by JustAnotherAsshole

Specifically, "Holocaust" is used to refer to the genocide that took place during WW2 and you know it.



They were the largest minority as well as the primary target. Everyone who payed attention in middle school knows it wasn't just Jews.

And Holocaust, while it can be more loosely used, is still almost exclusively used to describe the genocide during WW2.

"The Holocaust" is used to refer to the genocide. However, the term could be used for conceivably anything resulting in great loss of life, not necessarily even genocide.

Everyone who paid attention in middle school knows that the past tense of "pay" is "paid." Secondly, as true as that may be, you rarely hear other groups talked about. It's always the "six million Jews that were killed in the Holocaust", completely ignoring the close to 11 million others that were also killed because of who they were.

[LSA King]

Originally Posted by water bottle

Yeah, what jerks. The nerve of them! Applying the word "holocaust" to their horrifying experiences! Keeping the word "holocaust" all for themselves! Greedy Jews .

Honestly, antisemitism is just getting so tl;dr.

You missed the entire point completely. The nerve of them is that the term "Holocaust" can only be used once and in reference only to the Jews. Either way the argument is mute, Armenians have lost getting the action classified as a "Genocide" and as a "Holocaust". Either way the 1.5 million armenians that died never got and most likely never will get recognized as the mass slaughter that it was by the International Community, that is the important thing especially in this UN One World Government we all want sooooo badly these days. If the world can't recognize the crime as a crime against humanity than what fucking good does the UN do in the first place?

if you dont vote, dont fucking whinge

Perhaps you thought I was whining when I was really pointing out the meaningless idea of the "Vote" system in America and laughing at those who believed in a "Savior" for a President.

I could go on and on about the corruption of American politics and the Voting system and how its an illusion to keep you stuck in a groundhog day mentality, but you are one of those hardcore Americans who believe that the Politicians and Government work for him like the old days and not like the new days where we really work for them.

[JustAnotherAsshole]

Originally Posted by crazzyass

"The Holocaust" is used to refer to the genocide. However, the term could be used for conceivably anything resulting in great loss of life, not necessarily even genocide.

Yeah? How often? My point stands that it is almost exclusively used to refer to the genocide of Jews, Slavs, etc during WW2.

Everyone who paid attention in middle school knows that the past tense of "pay" is "paid." Secondly, as true as that may be, you rarely hear other groups talked about. It's always the "six million Jews that were killed in the Holocaust", completely ignoring the close to 11 million others that were also killed because of who they were.

Terribly sorry about my grammar crazyass, it'll never happen again.

I wasn't taking a shot at you, or trying to be a smartass with the middle school comment. I was saying that everyone knows that it wasn't just Jews and that millions more did die, but more of them died than any other single group.

[Fractals]

Originally Posted by JustAnotherAsshole

Terribly sorry about my grammar crazyass, it'll never happen again.

Better get your shit together before he starts the grammar holocaust

[Slave of the Beast]

I don't know about the etymological details, all I know is that there's no business like Shoah business.

[crazzyass]

Originally Posted by Fractals

Better get your shit together before he starts the grammar holocaust

I wasn't just being a grammar Nazi, I was making a point. He said that everyone who paid attention in middle school would know that groups other than Jews were also killed, all the while making a middle school-level grammatical error...which proves my point. Just because it is casually mentioned in the annexes of history and talked about in school doesn't mean that the public as a whole is aware of it. More people than you would think can't name the Secretary of State, or the Prime Minister of the UK, or how US elections are carried out. Meanwhile, the Holocaust is paraded as an affront to Jews despite the fact that Jews make up roughly 30-40% of the total killed.

[The Better Version]

Originally Posted by HAS

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8553013.stm

Why the fuck is this even an issue for the U.S? Who cares about the Turkish identity!! We need to be thinking about ourselves instead of meddling in this stupid affair.

[Fractals]

Originally Posted by crazzyass

I wasn't just being a grammar Nazi, I was making a point. He said that everyone who paid attention in middle school would know that groups other than Jews were also killed, all the while making a middle school-level grammatical error...which proves my point. Just because it is casually mentioned in the annexes of history and talked about in school doesn't mean that the public as a whole is aware of it. More people than you would think can't name the Secretary of State, or the Prime Minister of the UK, or how US elections are carried out. Meanwhile, the Holocaust is paraded as an affront to Jews despite the fact that Jews make up roughly 30-40% of the total killed.

You were the first to bring up grammar in this thread, you couldn't possibly have been proving a point. The Jews make up the biggest portion of the people killed in the Holocaust. People like to simplify things. There's no conspiracy, anyone who is educated knows that the Jews wern't the only ones killed.

[crazzyass]

Originally Posted by Fractals

You were the first to bring up grammar in this thread, you couldn't possibly have been proving a point. The Jews make up the biggest portion of the people killed in the Holocaust. People like to simplify things. There's no conspiracy, anyone who is educated knows that the Jews wern't the only ones killed.

Haha, what? So if someone brings something up before someone else, they automatically cease to have a point? Please explain that one out logically for me.

The Jews do not make up the largest part. Up to 11 million nonjews were killed, close to double the number of Jews that were killed. If someone were to simplify the Holocaust accurately, it would be considered the mass slaughter of minorities in general, not of Jews.

No one said anything about a conspiracy. But per your logic, since you were the first one to bring it up you clearly have no point to make, and as such such should be infracted for posting off-topic, right?

[Fractals]

Originally Posted by crazzyass

Haha, what? So if someone brings something up before someone else, they automatically cease to have a point? Please explain that one out logically for me.

The Jews do not make up the largest part. Up to 11 million nonjews were killed, close to double the number of Jews that were killed. If someone were to simplify the Holocaust accurately, it would be considered the mass slaughter of minorities in general, not of Jews.

No one said anything about a conspiracy. But per your logic, since you were the first one to bring it up you clearly have no point to make, and as such such should be infracted for posting off-topic, right?

This is a discussion about the holocaust, grammar has nothing to do with it. So you're saying ethnic Poles, Romani, Soviet civilians, Soviet prisoners of war, people with disabilities, homosexuals, and Jehovah's Witnesses all make up just one group? If I counted right, thats 7 groups.

Look at the chart here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocau...and_death_toll
5.9 million Jews were killed, the next largest group is Soviet POWs, at 2-3 million. More than twice as many Jews were killed than any other individual group.

Everyone who paid attention in middle school knows that 5.9 > 3.