Slave Knowledge

[Dose Me]

Throughout my experience at a university I've come to realize something about some of the classes. There are some classes....often one's that are required, that teach subjects and topics of a certain type.

I first noticed this during a Business Statistics class...in which things like standard deviations and mean samples, etc. are taught. Having listened to the first few lectures I realized something about this information. It was knowledge that only a worker bee would find use for...any work that one might get paid for that would require the use of this knowledge would be mid-level at best. It was slave knowledge.

Let's say you start your own business. By the time you would need to concern yourself with standard deviations and 10-year production estimates you (the business founder/owner) surely wouldn't be doing it yourself. You would be paying someone to do your standard deviations. You would have people who went to college come work for you and figure it all out for you.

I just feel like by teaching me this...I'm being set up to count OTHER people's money my whole life (isn't that was accounting is?). Is this knowledge worth less than the raw experience I could have had if I just went out and started my own business?

Did the slave-driver know how to do everything the slave did...and just as well? Over time...did slaves teach slaves slave skills..while the masters and the sons of masters slowly lost the knowledge of how to do the work?

Am I less likely to be a boss...and more likely to be a cubicle-nobody by knowing how to do these menial tasks?

[supperrfreek]

Well, when the guy on top does not know how to do this, he must outsource it, and when there are few people who know the skills, they can charge whatever they want. However, when enough people know the skill, they compete and the price drops. Thus it is advantageous for those at the top to educate everyone for their service jobs as opposed to actually teaching them how to make things.

[Cory]

OP is pretty much spot on. Most "education" today is really just training you to work for your masters. The fact is that you ARE being tought to count other people's money.

[Dfg]

Well, that's true in some cases but you should know the basics in the order to run something. If I am running a Tech company and I don't know what programming is or how to use Windows then I can't handle it in the long run. I will get ripped off. So, learn what you can from the text books but don't limit yourself. No one is stopping you from looking up and researching things. When it comes to knowledge you have to seek it.
Btw no one actually teaches you everything. The teachers are there to get over the curriculum and get paid. We have a terrible education system in Pakistan. The text books are shit and you don't learn anything practical from them.

You're better off with learning yourself. Hell, i would have to spend thousands of rupees to get good at English. Instead I learned it by reading second books and newspapers and movies. Same goes for computers and everything else.

You're the only one limiting yourself, you go to Universities to get a degree that you can show others and a get a job. If you're planning to run a business you don't need a degree. You need confidence and life experience.

[LiquidIce]

Uh, OP, I believe that any mathematical knowledge is rudimentary and that actually the lack of this knowledge is what separates slaves from masters.

I suggest the following books:

# Belsky, G., & Gilovich, T. (1999). Why smart people make big money mistakes-and how to correct them: Lessons from the new science of behavioral economics. New York: Simon and Schuster. ISBN 0-684-85938-6
# Gilovich, T. (1991). How we know what isn't so: The fallibility of human reason in everyday life. New York: The Free Press. ISBN 0-02-911706-2.

# Innumeracy: Mathematical Illiteracy and its Consequences is a 1988 book by mathematician John Allen Paulos (1988 1st ed., 135 p. ; 24 cm. New York : Hill and Wang; ISBN 0809074478)


This is an imagerar. DL, unrar and read. It's really interesting, I actually sacrificed my eyes to read the pdf on my pc.

The knowledge of such stuff as standard deviation and other statistics and probablity topics would, in my opinion, greatly help the average Joe to not take it in the ass from stores, restaurants, services, employers, insurance companies and everything and everybody else that handles HIS money.

[Mantikore]

society is not separated into two distinct classes

[Dose Me]

Originally Posted by Dfg

You're better off with learning yourself. Hell, i would have to spend thousands of rupees to get good at English. Instead I learned it by reading second books and newspapers and movies. Same goes for computers and everything else.

You're the only one limiting yourself, you go to Universities to get a degree that you can show others and a get a job. If you're planning to run a business you don't need a degree. You need confidence and life experience.

This is my nature Dfg...I am a self learner and knowledge seeker. If I want to learn something and nobody will teach it to me...I do learn it myself.

I've already made this distinction about education. It's just a guy telling you stuff that some other guy told him...or that he read in a book. Not nearly as much material or first-hand experience that constitutes true knowledge as some of us would like. That was my point kind of. Does the knowledge taught in Universities hold you back? Personally sought knowledge is never a waste of time...because you've had direct experience that you can relate to. At worst you will have learned it was something you care nothing about.

Originally Posted by LiquidIce

Uh, OP, I believe that any mathematical knowledge is rudimentary and that actually the lack of this knowledge is what separates slaves from masters.

The knowledge of such stuff as standard deviation and other statistics and probablity topics would, in my opinion, greatly help the average Joe to not take it in the ass from stores, restaurants, services, employers, insurance companies and everything and everybody else that handles HIS money.

I see your point here too. I wasn't knocking on math knowledge specifically...that class is just one example in one field of study. It's the equivalent of someone teaching me me how to haul logs or chop down trees...it's a labor i may be asked to perform. My fear is that by KNOWING how to do standard deviations...by teaching people how to do it...will you not set them/me up to just accept a run-of-the-mill life because someone will pay me to do their menial mindwork? Will it make one less likely to be a leader?

If someone didn't know how to do standard deviations...they might be more likely to just go out and start their own business as opposed to work for someone else?

Originally Posted by Mantikore

society is not separated into two distinct classes

It's not seperated into two distinct anythings. There are the people who make money for themselves and there are people who make money for other people.

99% of jobs require you to help make someone else rich.

[LiquidIce]

Originally Posted by Dose Me

I see your point here too. I wasn't knocking on math knowledge specifically...that class is just one example in one field of study. It's the equivalent of someone teaching me me how to haul logs or chop down trees...it's a labor i may be asked to perform. My fear is that by KNOWING how to do standard deviations...by teaching people how to do it...will you not set them/me up to just accept a run-of-the-mill life because someone will pay me to do their menial mindwork? Will it make one less likely to be a leader?

If someone didn't know how to do standard deviations...they might be more likely to just go out and start their own business as opposed to work for someone else?

But couldn't you apply this for any other skills you can learn? That tree chopping thing, you learn that and instead of doing your own thing, you might get stuck as a woodsman? Or you could also start your own wood cutting business and you'd also know how to hire other people because you'd compare your skills to their skills.
I believe man should learn as much as possible. I take pride in being able to chop down trees and dig holes, knowing that 90% people around have never even done such a thing. Same thing goes for statistics and probablity or calculus - I'm a bit rusty, but give me a week and I'll relearn it all. Yes, I'm probably be going to be stuck using my skills for somebody else in return for money, but I have plans to direct my skills to my own projects in the future, I just need more work on those skills and until I get to a certain power level in them, I have to do menial labor for someone else.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Mantikore

society is not separated into two distinct classes

Yes it is.

[FuckThatShit]

MEME : Master-slave Morality

[TruthWielder]

Originally Posted by Cory

Yes it is.

Put an argument when you make claims ya silly commie. Or better yet, read Animal Farm.

OP, to be perfectly honest I resound with your concern but no matter how dissatisfied you are about the fact that you have to learn 2 + 2 = 4 before you're handed your doctorate in physics, you must understand that knowledge in any field is tiered. Steps lead to, yes, other steps. If you trip on the first step you wont be able to step smoothly from the next to the next and so on. It is ignorance of this fact that makes a pseudo-intellectual in any field. And pseudo-businessmen especially are a dime a dozen, pseudo-philosophers as well.

Knowledge is necessary yes, but ambition, boldness, social skills and determination are what take someone to the next level. I've seen it myself. My brother got his job in a powerful and growing investment company on balls alone and doesn't even have his bachelors degree in. Pm me if you'd like to know about that.

Here:
The 48 Laws of Power, Robert Greene, Download - Barnes & Noble


If you want to understand how to not be a "slave" then you need to understand power. Power exists independent of, and is a characteristic that impinges upon, knowledge. Or, alternatively, remove yourself from the system, realize your individuality, acknowledge your personal rights and power, and stop blaming schools and government for your problems. Complaining doesn't help much either.

[Ambient]

Originally Posted by Dose Me

Throughout my experience at a university I've come to realize something about some of the classes. There are some classes....often one's that are required, that teach subjects and topics of a certain type.

I first noticed this during a Business Statistics class...in which things like standard deviations and mean samples, etc. are taught. Having listened to the first few lectures I realized something about this information. It was knowledge that only a worker bee would find use for...any work that one might get paid for that would require the use of this knowledge would be mid-level at best. It was slave knowledge.

Let's say you start your own business. By the time you would need to concern yourself with standard deviations and 10-year production estimates you (the business founder/owner) surely wouldn't be doing it yourself. You would be paying someone to do your standard deviations. You would have people who went to college come work for you and figure it all out for you.

I just feel like by teaching me this...I'm being set up to count OTHER people's money my whole life (isn't that was accounting is?). Is this knowledge worth less than the raw experience I could have had if I just went out and started my own business?

Did the slave-driver know how to do everything the slave did...and just as well? Over time...did slaves teach slaves slave skills..while the masters and the sons of masters slowly lost the knowledge of how to do the work?

Am I less likely to be a boss...and more likely to be a cubicle-nobody by knowing how to do these menial tasks?

Fucking this

[Cory]

Originally Posted by One+Will

Put an argument when you make claims ya silly commie. Or better yet, read Animal Farm.

Because you just propped up the mose comprehensive argument to back up your little quip.

"Middle class" is a lie. There is the working class(or as many would see it "middle and lower classes") and the ruling class(the "upper class"). Don't believe me? Ask the fine folks of the Bilderberg Group.

Also, maybe YOU should read Animal Farm. It was all about how socialism worked at first then was hijacked by Stalin (Napoleon) and his hacks (the pigs).

Orwell was a Socialist for fucks sake!

[SLIM]

Originally Posted by Dose Me

Throughout my experience at a university I've come to realize something about some of the classes. There are some classes....often one's that are required, that teach subjects and topics of a certain type.

I first noticed this during a Business Statistics class...in which things like standard deviations and mean samples, etc. are taught. Having listened to the first few lectures I realized something about this information. It was knowledge that only a worker bee would find use for...any work that one might get paid for that would require the use of this knowledge would be mid-level at best. It was slave knowledge.

Let's say you start your own business. By the time you would need to concern yourself with standard deviations and 10-year production estimates you (the business founder/owner) surely wouldn't be doing it yourself. You would be paying someone to do your standard deviations. You would have people who went to college come work for you and figure it all out for you.

I just feel like by teaching me this...I'm being set up to count OTHER people's money my whole life (isn't that was accounting is?). Is this knowledge worth less than the raw experience I could have had if I just went out and started my own business?

Did the slave-driver know how to do everything the slave did...and just as well? Over time...did slaves teach slaves slave skills..while the masters and the sons of masters slowly lost the knowledge of how to do the work?

Am I less likely to be a boss...and more likely to be a cubicle-nobody by knowing how to do these menial tasks?

Here's an article you may find interesting.

Worker Bee
Date: 6,500 BCE


From: the Ruling Class

To: the Worker Bee

Date: 6,500 BCE

My Dear Worker Bee,

Do not be concerned with how difficult your life is, making us wealthy, or how we deceived you into exploiting the planet's resources, to create wealth for us to fulfill our selfish greed and desires, for we promise you that there is a heavenly paradise for you (your fictitious soul) to live in forever, once you have finished working your sorry-ass off for us.

By the way, have we mentioned how bad and sinful you are today? You should go to the Temple-Church and repent as soon as possible, and ask for forgiveness. Be sure to pay any tithing that is past due on your account, while you are there confessing your sins; and be sure to use the latest definitions of sin that we gave you, which will change on occasion to fit our wealth-generating strategic needs, regardless our your needs.

In the future, don't be overly concerned about losing your natural skills for (1) hunting and gathering food to feed yourself, (2) building yourself a shelter, (3) finding your own water source, (4) or getting rid of your waste products. We will be launching a new campaign to make you more dependent on us by (1) building grocery stores so that you will have to buy food from us (because we will own all the land -making it impossible for you to hunt and gather food on your own), (2) building ready made homes that you will have to buy from us, along with the land that the home sits on, (3) building water treatment plants so that you will have to buy drinking water from us (because we will own all the water rights), (4) building waste treatment plants so that you will have to pay us to get rid of your waste products (because we will make it illegal to get rid of your waste products for free, wherever you want). I almost forgot, we will also be convincing you that these are all modern conveniences; all you have to do is come up with the money to pay us for it all, including the taxes.

Our prophets (stockbrokers) are telling us that since you will no longer be working to hunt and gather your own food, and will need money to buy food from us, you will be working for us in the future. The distance between your home and your place of work will be a significant distance, making it impossible for you to get to work, on time, by just walking. It is my understanding that there will be something called an "automobile" invented, that you will be able to buy from us to get you to work on time, so that you will be able to earn enough money to pay for everything we have mentioned earlier. This "automobile" will require a type of fuel which will be called "gasoline," which you will also have to buy from us; including the required accessories, such as license plates and "automobile" insurance.

This should complete the major portion of our strategic plan for you to become completely dependent upon us. Next week we will send you a memo concerning some other "need-to-buy" items coming in the future that will be called health care, prescription drugs, health insurance, and life insurance.

With love, affection, and sincere concern for your well-being,

The Ruling Class

P.S. We feel a little guilty and would like to apologize for fooling you into believing that an invisible supernatural-surrogate parent and inexpensive 24-hour-per-day invisible police force, (God), gave us land that rightly belongs to everyone equally, but the priests among us advise against it; and besides that would put them out of a job of keeping the hoax

[Firemind]

Originally Posted by Mantikore

society is not separated into two distinct classes

Yeah, more like 20.

[TruthWielder]

Originally Posted by Cory

Because you just propped up the mose comprehensive argument to back up your little quip.

"Middle class" is a lie. There is the working class(or as many would see it "middle and lower classes") and the ruling class(the "upper class"). Don't believe me? Ask the fine folks of the Bilderberg Group.

Also, maybe YOU should read Animal Farm. It was all about how socialism worked at first then was hijacked by Stalin (Napoleon) and his hacks (the pigs).

Orwell was a Socialist for fucks sake!

And yet, the clear implication in Animal Farm is when you go too far down the leftist road rights are inevitably subsumed under the interests of the ruler. Orwell wasn't some "revolution of the proteletariat" cook. Sure, Orwell was a democratic socialist. What the fuck does that have to do with anything. He understood well the dangers and limitations of communism.

The fine folks of the Bilderberg group are made up of intellectuals, media personalities, businessmen, politicians and more. Just because there is such a group does not mean they are somehow separate from society in such a way as to imply they have some kind of absolute control over it. There is just no way to pretend to be able to control the near infinite varieties of individuality in all its human shades, both great and dark, just like there is absolutely no way to control all the means to production. Anybody with enough will or drive could be a member of the Bilderberg. But of course, its a whole lot easier to just look at them on their stacks of money, and with a butthurt frown, blame their status on the evils of money and blame their power on the fact that society has two classes or some such other arbitrary rubbish that narrowly defines power relations in a society.

There are always power structures that we use to define methods of coercion in a society. In that sense there is always going to be a rich class. This is inevitable in any ordered society. Get over it. In a constitutional republic like ours you have the freedom to do whatever you will as long as you dont impinge upon the rights of others. Now, do powerful people do that? Yes. Does that mean that we need to attempt to dissolve all power structures? No. It means we find a way to legally intercept their attempts to take advantage of an ever evolving legal and political system whilst doing our best to retain our freedoms, and along with it, our humanity.

To claim that the bourgeoisie is the problem is missing the point; PEOPLE are the problem, as lower class raised Stalin and middle class raised Hitler so aptly demonstrated.

There is just no better system than the one we have. Name one economic form that has provided for the people better than the mixed capitalistic economy we have in place today. None? Didn't think so. Thats why we have to work on perfecting this one in such a way as to handle and adapt to the flaws of man in their time, not trying to live in a dream world where we have to destroy everything or negate our rights to inevitably fail at building up to an impossible ideal.

[Rust]

Originally Posted by TruthWielder

There is just no better system than the one we have. Name one economic form that has provided for the people better than the mixed capitalistic economy we have in place today. None? Didn't think so. Thats why we have to work on perfecting this one in such a way as to handle and adapt to the flaws of man in their time, not trying to live in a dream world where we have to destroy everything or negate our rights to inevitably fail at building up to an impossible ideal.

Name me one economic "form" that has done so much to prevent any other from succeeding? None? Perfecting a fundamentally flawed system is an exercise in futility, which is far, far worse than trying to get as close as possible to an impossible - according to you - ideal.

You be the caveman trying to perfect walking as a mode of transportation; I'll keep working this thing called the wheel.

[TruthWielder]

Originally Posted by Rust

Name me one economic "form" that has done so much to prevent any other from succeeding? None? Perfecting a fundamentally flawed system is an exercise in futility, which is far, far worse than trying to get as close as possible to an impossible - according to you - ideal.

You be the caveman trying to perfect walking as a mode of transportation; I'll keep working this thing called the wheel.

America has the greatest percentage of entrepreneurs of any country. If that's preventing others from succeeding then my dick is the rusty one. I mean...really? Prevented people more? Than China?

The problem with trying to put in place an impossible ideal that runs contrary to human nature (unlike a realizable ideal) is that the structure of the idea runs counter to obstinate reality, making inevitable its compromise or the destruction of all that opposes it, and thus again its compromise. There is no getting around it.

Jesus said to love your enemy. Yet the crusades happened. Just like the crusades the sacrifice will have to be built on blood and brutality, and most of all, freedom. Freedom must be sacrificed in order to appease the prophet (military leader/politician) of the God (communism). A communist utopia requires someone better than Marx to run it, and someone more subservient than an oppressed worker to live in it. No other situation could allow a society to be fully communist. Even if all the communists in the world were given their own little country to run and manage as they see fit, the frailty of humanity would give way to the single man who would destroy it all, and rightly so. Why? We are due our property, our means, our work, our dignity, and our inherent rights. Given enough time all men will want them. Because man is such a way Rust, and nothing will change it besides the steady evolutionary enlightenment of our whole species built on conscious awareness, NOT shallow conquest or mere expressions of shortsighted kneejerk political frustrations.

It’s not so much the wheel versus walking. It’s more like walking versus instantaneous teleportation (an ideal state). Communism is supposedly an ideal state of living. Is it realizable at all? Well that’s the first, and in my opinion most easily answered, question in testing its validity. Does conceptually comparing the ideal of instantaneous teleportation to the reality of walking allow us to highlight the flaws and limitations of walking? Why, yes, thankfully. The knee is a primitive joint, easily disturbed and is responsible for a lot of weight. It requires exercise and struggle, a whole methodology to it. However, it can heal itself, as can the highly placed hip and meager yet essential ankle. Does instantaneous teleportation, besides moving me anywhere at all, have the ability to be improved in any way? No. As a logician you know that tautologies don’t tell you much. Does it improve my life in itself? No. I can be fully happy and satisfied without it. Can the idea of it tell me how to correctly get to it, or even to a state where everyone is happy besides? No. Not besides indicating what I want (equality).

By the way, I think the closest thing to true communism has been the Christian communes of the 19th century. Those didn’t turn out too well. Hopefully one day we'll have something that will exceed both of our ideologies.

[The Better Version]

Originally Posted by Dose Me

Throughout my experience at a university I've come to realize something about some of the classes. There are some classes....often one's that are required, that teach subjects and topics of a certain type.

I first noticed this during a Business Statistics class...in which things like standard deviations and mean samples, etc. are taught. Having listened to the first few lectures I realized something about this information. It was knowledge that only a worker bee would find use for...any work that one might get paid for that would require the use of this knowledge would be mid-level at best. It was slave knowledge.

Let's say you start your own business. By the time you would need to concern yourself with standard deviations and 10-year production estimates you (the business founder/owner) surely wouldn't be doing it yourself. You would be paying someone to do your standard deviations. You would have people who went to college come work for you and figure it all out for you.

I just feel like by teaching me this...I'm being set up to count OTHER people's money my whole life (isn't that was accounting is?). Is this knowledge worth less than the raw experience I could have had if I just went out and started my own business?

Did the slave-driver know how to do everything the slave did...and just as well? Over time...did slaves teach slaves slave skills..while the masters and the sons of masters slowly lost the knowledge of how to do the work?

Am I less likely to be a boss...and more likely to be a cubicle-nobody by knowing how to do these menial tasks?

And this is why I'm a History major. I'll admit, its not a lucrative field but its so fascinating and because I'm confident in my abilities, I know I'll be Ok. It's either going to land me into analytical work or personal research or nowhere but either way I'll be happy knowing that I get to do what I want instead of what makes money. Industrialized lives are nice and safe but its far more interesting to step out of your comfort zone.

[Rust]

Originally Posted by TruthWielder

America has the greatest percentage of entrepreneurs of any country. If that's preventing others from succeeding then my dick is the rusty one. I mean...really? Prevented people more? Than China?

Read things carefully please. I'm talking about any other economic system from succeeding. You are asking us to judge capitalism against any failure of other systems, when capitalism has systematically engaged in guaranteeing the failure of other economic systems that threaten its existence. It's like claiming no other fruit tastes better than apples, and then going out and deliberately poisoning all other fruits.

The problem with trying to put in place an impossible ideal that runs contrary to human nature (unlike a realizable ideal) is that the structure of the idea runs counter to obstinate reality, making inevitable its compromise or the destruction of all that opposes it, and thus again its compromise. There is no getting around it.

Except you've not even remotely gotten close to proving that it is either impossible or against human nature! Why would I believe single word you have to say; especially when they seem to be pulled right out of your read-end? Communism doesn't require anything from humans than what we see every single day of our lives: a small sense of cooperation. That's it. That is neither impossible, not contrary to human nature.

Still, even then, a compromise on excellence, is still much better than basking in corruption.

Communism is supposedly an ideal state of living. Is it realizable at all? Well that’s the first, and in my opinion most easily answered, question in testing its validity. Does conceptually comparing the ideal of instantaneous teleportation to the reality of walking allow us to highlight the flaws and limitations of walking? Why, yes, thankfully. The knee is a primitive joint, easily disturbed and is responsible for a lot of weight. It requires exercise and struggle, a whole methodology to it. However, it can heal itself, as can the highly placed hip and meager yet essential ankle. Does instantaneous teleportation, besides moving me anywhere at all, have the ability to be improved in any way?

Except that is not the case to being with. You are beginning with a flawed premise that communism is an unimprovable ideal - and Utopia - when that absurd notion died precisely when Marx put it to rest decades ago. If there was anyone against the silly utopic ideas, it was Marx himself. Marx doesn't propose an utopia, Marx proposes an improvement against capitalism. It isn't analogous to instant teleportation, it's analogous to an improvement to walking - and improvement that you've yet to show is impossible.


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Anyways, I'll leave it at that. I wouldnt' want you to complain about my thread-derailing...

[TruthWielder]

Originally Posted by Rust

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Anyways, I'll leave it at that. I wouldnt' want you to complain about my thread-derailing...

Primarily my fault. I probably shouldn't have gone there.