Archived: Getting Into Buddhism (As Unpretentiously As Possible)

[water bottle]

Hola. So, I live on the West Coast, and a lot of people here are into Buddhist philosophy and more generally Eastern thought - something I've more or less ignored thus far in my intellectual pursuits, and yet that nagging, seductive breeze from the East pecks incessantly at my cheeks. Sorry, I'm stoned. In past philosophical/theological pursuits, I've focused more on Western thinkers, who I sometime become frustrated with for their narrow-mindedness. So, I'd like to start looking into Buddhism. I have Buddhist family, but aside from those little coffee table books of quotes, I am largely ignorant. So I ask you this, zoklet: what document (or series of documents) would you recommend for a humble guy dipping his toe in Buddhism? I'm looking for specific works or writers if you might.

I don't know. I guess my old maxim of "forget theology, remember philosophy" is proving more and more naive - not too mention dangerously exclusive in that I've essentially closed my mind to the possibility of... well, possibility. I'd just like it if someone could point me in the right direction to get started, as I feel I'm philosophically/theologically rather narrow. I'd like to expand. Give me a hand? Greyfox, I know I've been a dick to you, but I'd especially appreciate your advice.

[Wooden Pints]

Try reading the bible.

[water bottle]

Originally Posted by Wooden Pints

Try reading the bible.

I have no choice but to listen to a man who chooses "nigger" as his location, hm. I find the Bible useful as a historical document, but I frankly find little aside from common sense and what I like to call "folksy wisdom" (generic, common thought) within the Bible. I'm more open-minded now, but I still think the Bible is a somewhat unimportant work in theological terms. Certainly not the case in historical terms, but, I'm sure you know what I mean. I get very little out of the Bible and can't get over the difficulties arising from the tampering that has been done to it over the centuries - not to mention the translations!

[DJ Meaty Cheeks]

Originally Posted by Wooden Pints

Try rolling up and smoking the bible.

Fixed.

He asked about Buddhism not Christianity or Judaism.

[water bottle]

Originally Posted by Alpheus

Fixed.

He asked about Buddhism not Christianity or Judaism.

Out of thanks, I'll get ya tomorrow.

[Rizzo in a box]

I don't see why getting into Buddhism is pretentious at all. I notice that a lot of the buddhists around here (socal) don't really "get it", so to speak, but they're generally a lot nicer & laid back then the wacky Christians.

[water bottle]

Originally Posted by Rizzo in a box

I don't see why getting into Buddhism is pretentious at all. I notice that a lot of the buddhists around here (socal) don't really "get it", so to speak, but they're generally a lot nicer & laid back then the wacky Christians.

Reading about Buddhism isn't pretentious, but don't tell me you haven't noticed the appeal of Buddhism to hipsters and other such phonies. A lot of people will even go so far as to say that they are Buddhists, when really, they just smoke pot every now and then and think gold statues are trippy. That is what I meant by that. I don't want the facade, I don't want the self-help section of my neighbourhood bookstore. I want the horse's mouth, so to speak.

[thatsMYdog]

[water bottle]

Originally Posted by thatsMYdog

I do appreciate the suggestion, but would you mind adding a short description of your connection to the writing? How you found it, what you think of it, what it made you think, how it has impacted your thought, etc. That would send it through a sort of legitimizing process and help me decide if it's what I should pick up (I'm going through books like crazy at the moment, and each one has to be picked precisely ).

[Lord hang man]

I donno i realized it earlier but it sounds off. You gotta be at peace with the earth. I think that's the main facet of buddhism, as I mentioned I happened to be thinking about that earlier today.

[the new deal]

What sort of Buddhism are you interested in? Mahayana, Theravada, Vajrayana? Tibetan, Zen, etc?

I've just gotten back from three months in Nepal, where I spent about 10 days doing a meditation retreat in a Buddhist monastery. It definitely taught me a lot about the religion, not all of which I can really type out here at the moment (I'm freakin so jetlagged and about to pass out). But I found I really enjoyed reading the Tibetan Book of Living and Dying - it explains quite a bit about Buddhism in an understandable way. Also, you might want to read Herman Hesse's Siddhartha, just as a bit of history/background. Anything by the Dalai Lama as well, and if I think of more titles I'll post em up.

Good luck, and if you ever want to chat about anything just PM me.

[water bottle]

Originally Posted by Big Baby Jesus

I donno i realized it earlier but it sounds off. You gotta be at peace with the earth. I think that's the main facet of buddhism, as I mentioned I happened to be thinking about that earlier today.

Aye, nature is a big part of it - and yet not it. I'm speaking in dualist terms: I do think the unnatural (the man-made, the automobile, the cheeseburger) is an essential contradiction to the natural (the natural, Plato's forms; the "truth"). That's one of the best things about where I live: an emphasis on the natural is... well, emphasized. An excellent blend of West and East, I am surely a lucky, blessed drunk.

[Mantikore]

to my knowledge, buddhism is all about understanding suffering so that you can free yourself from it.

[Lord hang man]

Originally Posted by water bottle

Aye, nature is a big part of it - and yet not it. I'm speaking in dualist terms: I do think the unnatural (the man-made, the automobile, the cheeseburger) is an essential contradiction to the natural (the natural, Plato's forms; the "truth"). That's one of the best things about where I live: an emphasis on the natural is... well, emphasized. An excellent blend of West and East, I am surely a lucky, blessed drunk.

Yea Nirvana just means equality with surroundings; or something. It's all good light shines.

[thatsMYdog]

Originally Posted by water bottle

I do appreciate the suggestion, but would you mind adding a short description of your connection to the writing? How you found it, what you think of it, what it made you think, how it has impacted your thought, etc. That would send it through a sort of legitimizing process and help me decide if it's what I should pick up (I'm going through books like crazy at the moment, and each one has to be picked precisely ).

This book is amazing. I'll write more about it when I'm not so sleepy!

[water bottle]

Originally Posted by Big Baby Jesus

Yea Nirvana just means equality with surroundings; or something. It's all good light shines.

Originally Posted by thatsMYdog

This book is amazing. I'll write more about it when I'm not so sleepy!

Cheers to the both of you. Damn, this forum is actually pretty cozy.

[Nero]

Haha, unpretentiously? Good luck.

[water bottle]

Originally Posted by Chi

Haha, unpretentiously? Good luck.

I'm white. That doesn't mean I'm excluded from any literature, just as a Japanese man should have no qualm reading the decidedly, arrogantly Eurocentric writings of Hegel. But, yeah, I know what you mean. White boy calling himself a Buddhist (or even saying 'yeah, lately I've been into Buddhism') = 'you rotten phony'. Hence the thread title. It's avoidable, isn't it? It's an individual pursuit regardless - I don't care for perceptions of those mindless coffee-servers.

[Butcher]

If you don't want to be pretentious then don't. If you're not pretentious then why worry about it? Are you worried you might come off as pretentious, because if you are then you care more about the image than the ideas and hence, pretentious. So actively trying not to be pretentious is just pretentiousness under another mask. Just forget about image altogether and pursue whatever knowledge you're after.

lol I said pretentious a lot.

I don't understand people who say "I want to get into a particular religion or philosophy." Just seek truth and go where it leads you, if you think a belief system has something to offer then check it out, but don't just up and decide one day that you're going to be a buddhist.

It's funny the way many people approach religion these days, rather than viewing it as the absolute truth of the universe they see it just as something to do to pass the time. It's like an existentialist approach to religion. Deep down they know its probably not true but cling to it anyway. Why not just accept that you're an existentialist and create your own values instead of searching for a dogma somewhere else?

Sorry if those last 2 paragraphs are off-topic, I'm rather stoned and it seems like they apply but maybe I'm just imagining it.

[Ambient]

Originally Posted by water bottle

...

I know this thread is about Buddhist literature, but as far as giving theology goes, and as far as the bible goes, I would recommend book of Proverbs from the old testament. As far as Buddhism goes, I would suggest much the same as any religious investigation; consult the original text/(s). Of course, presuming you don't read Sanskrit or Pali, your gonna need an english translation. If you want it straight from the horses mouth, I suggest you read the sacred texts themselves (first), rather than commentaries or essays or analyses.

[Headspin]

Well technically, I am a buddhist. I've done my introduction ritual or whatever the fuck you want to call it. Then again, I am a theosophist and don't really consider myself anything at all. But I have gone through the ritual. Anyway, if you're looking into Buddhism I recommend a PBS presentation called "The Buddha". It was largely informative and had pretty animations.

I can't find the documentary in one peice, but you can watch the individual parts [URL="Well technically, I am a buddhist. I've done my introduction ritual or whatever the fuck you want to call it. Then again, I am a theosophist and don't really consider myself anything at all. But I have gone through the ritual. Anyway, if you're looking into Buddhism I recommend a PBS presentation called "The Buddha". It was largely informative and had pretty animations. I can't find the documentary in one peice, but you can watch the individual parts here: http://video.pbs.org/searchForm/?q=the+buddha

[Ambient]

Originally Posted by Dream

...

I don't think participating in one ritual makes you a religious devotee, but hey, im not a Buddhist

[Headspin]

Originally Posted by Devotion

I don't think participating in one ritual makes you a religious devotee, but hey, im not a Buddhist

Ha? I never said I was a devout Buddhist, just that I went through the introduction/initiation ritual. It doesn't really matter anyway, I don't consider myself Buddhist, but I did in fact take the one step to becoming a Buddhist by title. Which is a short ritual where you get a statue or picture of Buddha ( I grabbed one from the internet) bow your head lower than his, and chant a few verses. That is the only step to becoming a Buddhist, from what I've read.

Now, my belief system usually strays toward Buddhist philosophy. Granted, I meditate, I worship my food and I try my best not to destroy life. If you really understood the concept of the Buddhist way, you would get that it doesn't really matter what you believe anyway.

And also, I have not followed the 8-fold path per se. I do however, as I said before, try my best not to sin. There is a long long journey ahead of me, I thought I was making headway, but it turns out I have so much more to work on.

[L33tz]

Isn't it my understanding that Siddhartha would have never wanted people to worship him? And just like christianity Buddhism has been infiltrated and fucked up.

[rabbitweed]

Every man and their dog is a 'Catholic' that never goes to mass, yet you're pretentions for getting into Bhuddism?

Oy vey...

[Cytosine]

Originally Posted by L33tz

Isn't it my understanding that Siddhartha would have never wanted people to worship him? And just like christianity Buddhism has been infiltrated and fucked up.

Depends how you interpret the "be a light unto yourselves" (or something along those lines). I take the interpretation that the Buddha never wanted "Buddhism" to exist, but it was bound to happen.

OP, I'd recommend the Dhammapada and some other major texts from the Pali cannon. That should give you a good grasp of the founder's beliefs/practices. Then read the Diamond Sutra so you can... Hear the doctrine of emptiness. It's incredibly hard to grasp, and you'll sometimes by very tempted to call the Buddha a nihilist.

I used the Diamond Sutra to swing into the East Asian meditation schools next and... Pretty much stayed there. I couldn't get into Tibetan stuff, shit's too weird. Zen and Ch'an are pretty solid schools - read Dogen if you want something dense and difficult.

I mention all these texts because, well. Most "fake"/hipster Buddhists only read pop authors like the Dalai Lama and Geshe Micheal Roach. Not to say that you shouldn't enjoy a contemporary work about Buddhism - I'm a fan of Brad Warner. Just don't stop there, don't take the author's word for it. Go to the source and see what you think about this belief, then accept or reject it. It's what the Buddha would've wanted.

[thatsMYdog]

Hey! I didn't forget you! Okay so basically 8 mindful steps to happiness is awesome mainly because of how easy the language is to read. I'm not the smartest so this is good for me. Buddhism is hard enough without all the crazy cryptic language.

This book is all about mindfulness and the path. It's a good one for beginners I think because it really goes in depth about each step of the path. It even goes into handling modern, everyday situations. I would recommend this for anyone especially those just starting to learn about this. If you have any questions feel free to ask! Other than that I really don't know what else to say about it. Good luck!!

[Ambient]

Originally Posted by Dream

...

What do you mean you worship food?

Also, being Buddhist mean a non-chalont attitude towards belief?

Post-modernism? Yeah. Buddhism? I dunno.

[I don't remember my name]

http://www.urbandharma.org/udharma4/mpe.html

[Miluardo]

Originally Posted by Rizzo in a box

I don't see why getting into Buddhism is pretentious at all. I notice that a lot of the buddhists around here (socal) don't really "get it", so to speak, but they're generally a lot nicer & laid back then the wacky Christians.

I think pretentious is a retarded concept to begin with. If you consider the definition it just means thinking before hand. Or at least that's what I get from it.

I got no beef with forethought.

I'm currently exploring buddhism as well. I can't help you at all as I'm still preliminary in that shit.

Mostly because I've been looking for this "no-mind" thing that cockslut up here has been talking about.

[ArmsMerchant]

Okay, here's the deal.

1. Get a copy of "The Teachings of the Buddha".
2. Read it.
3. Follow the advice given.

That's all there is to it, unless you want to get all complicated and shit.

[ObscuredByClouds]

Originally Posted by Miluardo

I think pretentious is a retarded concept to begin with. If you consider the definition it just means thinking before hand. Or at least that's what I get from it.

I got no beef with forethought.

I'm guessing he meant "pretentious" as in people say they're buddhist so others will somehow respect or admire them.

[Ouroboros]

Originally Posted by water bottle

Aye, nature is a big part of it - and yet not it. I'm speaking in dualist terms.

One thing that you must understand about Buddhism is there isn't a dualistic perspective.

Taoism represents the same quality. The tao is the way but it is not possible to name it because its always changing

[Miluardo]

Originally Posted by ObscuredByClouds

I'm guessing he meant "pretentious" as in people say they're buddhist so others will somehow respect or admire them.

What's funny is that I think I mixed those two words into one. The only reason I posted is because I was thinking about pretentious earlier and looked up the definition. It happened to be another very similar sounding word that I figured might possibly fit in.

It's ridiculous how one can do that.

That makes little sense unless you figure out what happened. I should stop posting stoned all the time.

Originally Posted by Butcher

If you don't want to be pretentious then don't. If you're not pretentious then why worry about it? Are you worried you might come off as pretentious, because if you are then you care more about the image than the ideas and hence, pretentious. So actively trying not to be pretentious is just pretentiousness under another mask. Just forget about image altogether and pursue whatever knowledge you're after.

lol I said pretentious a lot.

I don't understand people who say "I want to get into a particular religion or philosophy." Just seek truth and go where it leads you, if you think a belief system has something to offer then check it out, but don't just up and decide one day that you're going to be a buddhist.

It's funny the way many people approach religion these days, rather than viewing it as the absolute truth of the universe they see it just as something to do to pass the time. It's like an existentialist approach to religion. Deep down they know its probably not true but cling to it anyway. Why not just accept that you're an existentialist and create your own values instead of searching for a dogma somewhere else?

Sorry if those last 2 paragraphs are off-topic, I'm rather stoned and it seems like they apply but maybe I'm just imagining it.

You made my eyes feel funny. In a good way.

That last paragraph though, why not use someone else's dogmas and philosophies? Not entirely of course but in order to create your own. Someone must have found SOMETHING that is fairly all "true". Christ that's a hard statement to make.

Since you can't know what is true, why even create a dogma? Why not let yourself wander for eternity? ..Seriously?

[Miluardo]

Originally Posted by ObscuredByClouds

I'm guessing he meant "pretentious" as in people say they're buddhist so others will somehow respect or admire them.

What's funny is that I think I mixed those two words into one. The only reason I posted is because I was thinking about pretentious earlier and looked up the definition. It happened to be another very similar sounding word that I figured might possibly fit in.

It's ridiculous how one can do that.

That makes little sense unless you figure out what happened. I should stop posting stoned all the time.

Originally Posted by Butcher

If you don't want to be pretentious then don't. If you're not pretentious then why worry about it? Are you worried you might come off as pretentious, because if you are then you care more about the image than the ideas and hence, pretentious. So actively trying not to be pretentious is just pretentiousness under another mask. Just forget about image altogether and pursue whatever knowledge you're after.

lol I said pretentious a lot.

I don't understand people who say "I want to get into a particular religion or philosophy." Just seek truth and go where it leads you, if you think a belief system has something to offer then check it out, but don't just up and decide one day that you're going to be a buddhist.

It's funny the way many people approach religion these days, rather than viewing it as the absolute truth of the universe they see it just as something to do to pass the time. It's like an existentialist approach to religion. Deep down they know its probably not true but cling to it anyway. Why not just accept that you're an existentialist and create your own values instead of searching for a dogma somewhere else?

Sorry if those last 2 paragraphs are off-topic, I'm rather stoned and it seems like they apply but maybe I'm just imagining it.

You made my eyes feel funny. In a good way.

That last paragraph though, why not use someone else's dogmas and philosophies? Not entirely of course but in order to create your own. Someone must have found SOMETHING that fits your life.

Since you can't know what is true, why even create a dogma? Why not let yourself wander for eternity? ..Seriously?

[Miluardo]

Originally Posted by ObscuredByClouds

I'm guessing he meant "pretentious" as in people say they're buddhist so others will somehow respect or admire them.

What's funny is that I think I mixed those two words into one. The only reason I posted is because I was thinking about pretentious earlier and looked up the definition. It happened to be another very similar sounding word that I figured might possibly fit in.

It's ridiculous how one can do that.

That makes little sense unless you figure out what happened. I should stop posting stoned all the time.

Originally Posted by Butcher

If you don't want to be pretentious then don't. If you're not pretentious then why worry about it? Are you worried you might come off as pretentious, because if you are then you care more about the image than the ideas and hence, pretentious. So actively trying not to be pretentious is just pretentiousness under another mask. Just forget about image altogether and pursue whatever knowledge you're after.

lol I said pretentious a lot.

I don't understand people who say "I want to get into a particular religion or philosophy." Just seek truth and go where it leads you, if you think a belief system has something to offer then check it out, but don't just up and decide one day that you're going to be a buddhist.

It's funny the way many people approach religion these days, rather than viewing it as the absolute truth of the universe they see it just as something to do to pass the time. It's like an existentialist approach to religion. Deep down they know its probably not true but cling to it anyway. Why not just accept that you're an existentialist and create your own values instead of searching for a dogma somewhere else?

Sorry if those last 2 paragraphs are off-topic, I'm rather stoned and it seems like they apply but maybe I'm just imagining it.

You made my eyes feel funny. In a good way.

That last paragraph though, why not use someone else's dogmas and philosophies? Not entirely of course but in order to create your own. Someone must have found SOMETHING that fits your life.

Since you can't know what is true, why even create a dogma? Why not let yourself wander for eternity? ..Seriously?

[Butcher]

Originally Posted by Miluardo

You made my eyes feel funny. In a good way.

That last paragraph though, why not use someone else's dogmas and philosophies? Not entirely of course but in order to create your own. Someone must have found SOMETHING that fits your life.

Since you can't know what is true, why even create a dogma? Why not let yourself wander for eternity? ..Seriously?

You're right, I'm more of a nihilist anyway. I was just offering advice to these crypto-existentialists.

Personally I wouldn't create a dogma, but I do create values for myself all the time. Create and destroy. Its all about using ideas as tools, having different perspectives as different situations call for them. No single ideology can contain all aspects of the entire universe, no point of view is true in all situations.

Anyways, this is all off-topic. Nice triple post btw.

[Agros]

Originally Posted by the new deal

you might want to read Herman Hesse's Siddhartha

^This.

And The Teaching of Buddha, have both taught me a lot about Buddhism. If you want a good read try Siddhartha[/i], if you really want a deep understanding of Buddhism read The Teaching of Buddha.

[Miluardo]

Originally Posted by Butcher

You're right, I'm more of a nihilist anyway. I was just offering advice to these crypto-existentialists.

Personally I wouldn't create a dogma, but I do create values for myself all the time. Create and destroy. Its all about using ideas as tools, having different perspectives as different situations call for them. No single ideology can contain all aspects of the entire universe, no point of view is true in all situations.

Anyways, this is all off-topic. Nice triple post btw.

Haha thought I'd bring some disorder btw, I'm sure a mod will delete it..

I agree for sure. There is a dogma, religion, all encompassing philosophy that we all share. That philosophy is US. I am the way, you are the way, we all are the writers.

We have to borrow, and we have to use the strengths of others.. but for the most part we define what behavior is / should be. It is continuous.

[Psynthetic]

Definitely read Siddhartha along with whatever book you select. It's a great story and it's an easy read. I read it in one sitting, and I suck at reading.