I don't know anything about politics

[Drox]

What's liberalism and conservatism? What are the main ideas of each ideology? Who decides these ideas and why? What if people disagree over what liberalism or conservatism is? Who is the arbiter of who's right? What if someone believes in half of the ideas of liberalism, are they still a liberal? What if they believe in just one idea of liberalism, are they still a liberal? What if they believe in all but one idea of liberalism, are they still a liberal? And who decides this?

Why do people attach themselves to a particular ideology if they may not agree with everything that ideology has to say? What's the minimum one has to accept of a particular ideology to be "a part" of it? What's the point of identifying yourself as a liberal/conversative if many other liberals/conservatives will have differing opinions?

Why do certain parties call themselves one thing when some of their policies may be more in line with the opposite ideology? What's the point of naming parties after an ideology if you're never sure if their actions will be in line with that particular ideology?

In my politics class last year, the prof went over eleven ideas of conservative thought. One of them was that the meaning of the universe is a given (as in not constructed by humans). How is that at all relevant to any policies a conservative party may make? And if it's not, why call yourself conservative?


And of course there's no point in me asking any of this because you'll all disagree on everything and I'll just be more confused.

[Captain Politik]

anyone who considers themselves democrat or republican is a moron thats all you need to know. Whoever is stupid enough to agree completely with one side and isnt an independent is again a moron.

Just so you know during a presidental election this is exactly what happens.

The democrat candidate will try his hardest to be SUPER left wing that way he can be nominated as the democratic candidate.

He will than do nothing but move closer and closer to the middle, thus securing both democratic and lots of independent voters.

Same applies for the republicans

[Ambient]

Fuck politics, politics is for petty persons. The world is not divided into left and right factions, so I refuse to divide my cognizance into factions. I mean, political science is decent, but not the politics of governence.

Ignorance of politics= win

[Cory]

Ugh. Fine. I didn't want to at first, but seeing the "answers" he got...

More or less:

Conservative: Historically, the term often referred to the combination of economic liberalism, which champions laissez-faire markets, with the classical conservatism concern for established tradition, respect for authority and religious values. It contrasted itself with classical liberalism, which supported freedom for the individual in both the economic and social spheres.

Liberal: Social liberalism is the belief that liberalism should include social justice. It differs from classical liberalism in asserting that a liberal state should provide jobs, health care, and education while simultaneously expanding civil rights. Under social liberalism, the good of the community is viewed as harmonious with the freedom of the individual. Social liberal policies have been widely adopted in much of the capitalist world, particularly following the Second World War. Social liberal ideas and parties tend to be considered centrist or centre-left.

Liberterian: Libertarian conservatism describes certain political ideologies within the United States and Canada which combines libertarian economic issues with aspects of conservatism. Its five main branches are Constitutionalism, paleolibertarianism, neolibertarianism, small government conservatism and Christian libertarianism. They generally differ from paleoconservatives, in that they are in favor of more personal and economic freedom.

Socialist: Socialism is a political philosophy that encompasses various theories of economic organization based on either public or direct worker ownership and administration of the means of production and allocation of resources. A more comprehensive definition of socialism is an economic system that directly maximizes use-values as opposed to exchange-values and has transcended commodity production and wage labour, along with a corresponding set of social and economic relations, including the organization of economic institutions, the method of resource allocation and post-monetary calculation based on some physical magnitude; often implying a method of compensation based on individual merit, the amount of labour expended or individual contribution.

Communist: Communism in the Marxian sense refers to a classless, stateless and oppression-free society where decisions on what to produce and what policies to pursue are made democratically, allowing every member of society to participate in the decision-making process in both the political and economic spheres of life.

Fascist: Fascism is a radical and authoritarian nationalist political ideology. Fascists seek to organize a nation on corporatist perspectives, values, and systems such as the political system and the economy. Fascism was originally founded by Italian national syndicalists in World War I who combined left-wing and right-wing political views, but gravitated to the political right in the early 1920s. Scholars generally consider fascism to be on the far right of the conventional left-right political spectrum.

Yes, I copy/pasted those from Wikipedia, and yes, they're accurate. Becuase I really can't be assed right now.

Hope I answered some of your questions.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Devotion

Fuck politics, politics is for petty persons. The world is not divided into left and right factions, so I refuse to divide my cognizance into factions.

Politics decides almost everything in your life, weather you realize it or not.

Originally Posted by Devotion

Ignorance of politics= win

Ignorance of politics = easily manipulated sheep. Or as you would put it, "win".

[Former_Member]

The meaning of Liberalism has changed.

Now days, Liberalism would be considered rather right wing. Liberal pretty much means social liberalism today; though pretty much every mainstream western political party embraces social liberalism to an extent, even those deemed Conservative (Conservativism not being mutually exclusive with Liberalism, in fact most Conservative-leaning views are far closer to classic liberalism than 'Liberal'-leaning views are).

[Umbra]

Originally Posted by Cory

Politics decides almost everything in your life, weather you realize it or not.



Ignorance of politics = easily manipulated sheep. Or as you would put it, "win".

I doubt Devotion is a easily manipulated sheep.

Politics are just a invention to keep the people separated. And if you don't believe that you are just the easily manipulated sheep that you are calling others. Everything in politics are controlled and corrupted.

[Former_Member]

Politics is not an invention to keep people separated, that's a ridiculous premise.

It may do that in practice in the contemporary world, but that isn't the purpose; and it wasn't invented. Politics is literally just, dealing with the affairs of any given (or global) society; and as such is very, very important to human existence.

[Umbra]

That doesn't apply to today's society, sorry Ryan.

Everything is for the sake of greed, one way or another.

[Former_Member]

Originally Posted by Umbra

That doesn't apply to today's society, sorry Ryan.

Everything is for the sake of greed, one way or another.

And the way to fix that, would be through politics.

[Umbra]

Originally Posted by Ryan1711

And the way to fix that, would be through politics.

Trying to fix a corrupted system through a corrupted system is as pointless as trying to get high off lawn clippings.

[Former_Member]

What would you propose then? You won't come up with any solution that isn't in the realm of politics.

'Politics' isn't a corrupted system anyway. You might be of the view that the political system is corrupt, but Politics is a concept and by nature cannot be corrupted.

[Optionryder420]

Originally Posted by Cory

Politics decides almost everything in your life, weather you realize it or not.



Ignorance of politics = easily manipulated sheep. Or as you would put it, "win".

Dude, stfu.

From your descriptions on Socialism and Communism it's pretty obvious you have no fucking clue what you're talking about.

Along with the fact that you can't even tell the difference between "weather" and "whether."

Moron.

And to the OP, this isn't the place to discuss politics. Keep in mind a majority of the people here are below the age of 21 and thus have no idea about how the real world works.

[Former_Member]

Originally Posted by Optionryder420

From your descriptions on Socialism and Communism it's pretty obvious you have no fucking clue what you're talking about.

Along with the fact that you can't even tell the difference between "weather" and "whether."

Actually, his outline of Socialism and Communism are completely spot on. He's evidently got some good background in politics, probably a political academic. He's far more academic than an activist, at any rate.

His spelling has absolutely no bearing on anything here.

I'd disagree with your comment about the age of 21 too. Why is such an arbitrary age a number to divide the ignorant and the enlightened. Personally, as a 19 year old, I find it offensive and flawed.

[Cory]

For fucks sake god damnit!

Politics is just the question of who should govern and why, it's not a "system". I'm all for exposing the menace that is the modern elite, but there is more to politics than what you read on InfoWars.

Originally Posted by Optionryder420

From your descriptions on Socialism and Communism it's pretty obvious you have no fucking clue what you're talking about.

From your posts in this thread, culminating in the sheer idiocy of your last post, it's pretty obvious you're a retard. Those definitions are sopt on, and BTW, they aren't even mine. They're from Wikipedia (and of course I agree with them).

I was right when I couldn't be assed to type them myself, due to the expected retardation.

Originally Posted by Optionryder420

Along with the fact that you can't even tell the difference between "weather" and "whether."

Moron.

And to the OP, this isn't the place to discuss politics. Keep in mind a majority of the people here are below the age of 21 and thus have no idea about how the real world works.

So this is what you have to say, in lew of an auctual argument.

Listen, I agree that the current establishment is pretty corrupt. But the way you're saying comes off like "it's corrupt because it's corrupt".

Ryan1711 is the only other poster who seems to really have a grasp on the issue.

[Agent 008]

Here is all you need to know:

[youtube]uUs5JJJW7MI[/youtube]

[Ambient]

Originally Posted by Cory

Politics decides almost everything in your life, weather you realize it or not.

Ignorance of politics = easily manipulated sheep. Or as you would put it, "win".

Hmm, what do you mean when you say politics? When I think of politics I think of power, delegation of power, relinquishing of power, collectivism. When I think of politics I think of a compartmentalized faction of human knowledge, which is immersed in, "wordly" affairs, politics is inextricably materialistic, therefore temporal, therefore it does not know of the word "eternal". Politics shifts and changes. I am not interested in what shifts and changes; what is fashionable. I am interested in what has lasting potential; that is spirituality. Spirituality and politics do not mix.

Originally Posted by Umbra

I doubt Devotion is a easily manipulated sheep.

Politics are just a invention to keep the people separated. And if you don't believe that you are just the easily manipulated sheep that you are calling others. Everything in politics are controlled and corrupted.

I doubt I am an easily manipulated sheep. In saying that, sheep do not know that they are easily manipulated right?

Well, yes politics can be divisive. Anyone who is theologically inclined wishes to harness harmony and unity amongst all living beings, and hence admonishes politics, which again, seems to always come pre-packaged as some kind of inertia. That being said, political systems are generally the means to an end, the end being public service. However, this public service appearance can easily be a surface mask for shadow government lurking within the upper echelons. I think anyone who is truely existential admonishes politics.

Originally Posted by Ryan1711

Politics is not an invention to keep people separated, that's a ridiculous premise.

It may do that in practice in the contemporary world, but that isn't the purpose; and it wasn't invented. Politics is literally just, dealing with the affairs of any given (or global) society; and as such is very, very important to human existence.

Politics is an invention that keeps people seperate; that's an accurate description. Let's not be deluded, inaouthenticity (corruption) is not a new phenomenon, it is part and parcel with humanity. Your definition is accurate, and hence accurately describes politics weakness; anthropocentrism.

Any and every concept I have come across of society makes mention only of humanity, the duality between state of nature and state of society is a common one. This is a type of seperation is it not? In that way politics is intrinsicly orientated towards cheating. There will always be cheaters, politics simply gives cheaters a platform in which to cheat. When it comes to politics I am very cynical, though I am an optimistic person.

Originally Posted by Umbra

That doesn't apply to today's society, sorry Ryan.

Everything is for the sake of greed, one way or another.

Well seeing as society is basically defined as any human entity which subscribes to the debt based monetary system; then yea, everything is for greeds sake, one way or another.

Originally Posted by Ryan1711

And the way to fix that, would be through politics.

Hmmm. Who ever said fight fire with fire? Who would fight fire with fire? Maybe a jew, lol. The miser thinks that an eye for an eye is invigorating. Conversely, the wise man whos that an eye for an eye leaves the world blind, and that when we love our neighbour as thyself; then everyone is taken care of. I think this portrays the distinction I make between politics and religion, or spirituality if you will. I think when I talk of politics I am meaning legalism, governence, as I have stated I quite enjoy political science, though I may place seldom faith in it. Legalistic persons are largely ignorant of psychology I think, they neglect that a piece of writing means nothing without state of mind to back it up. Spirituality/Religion readily incorporates law & psychology.

Originally Posted by Umbra

Trying to fix a corrupted system through a corrupted system is as pointless as trying to get high off lawn clippings.

I LOL'd

What if my lawn was half grass, half cannabis, like a biologically engineered plant cyborg. Then we would truely have a reason to mow our lawns!

Originally Posted by Ryan1711

Actually, his outline of Socialism and Communism are completely spot on. He's evidently got some good background in politics, probably a political academic. He's far more academic than an activist, at any rate.

His spelling has absolutely no bearing on anything here.

I'd disagree with your comment about the age of 21 too. Why is such an arbitrary age a number to divide the ignorant and the enlightened. Personally, as a 19 year old, I find it offensive and flawed.

Yeap, age is just a number. But quoting from wikipedia seems like a douche bag move, better to link it, or better yet, write something original!

Originally Posted by Cory

I'm all for exposing the menace that is the modern elite, but there is more to politics than what you read on InfoWars.

Ryan1711 is the only other poster who seems to really agree with my perspective.

Fixed!

***crawls back to InfoWars***

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Devotion

Hmm, what do you mean when you say politics? When I think of politics I think of power, delegation of power, relinquishing of power, collectivism. When I think of politics I think of a compartmentalized faction of human knowledge, which is immersed in, "wordly" affairs, politics is inextricably materialistic, therefore temporal, therefore it does not know of the word "eternal". Politics shifts and changes. I am not interested in what shifts and changes; what is fashionable. I am interested in what has lasting potential; that is spirituality. Spirituality and politics do not mix.

Politics is just the question of who should govern, how, and why. Almost every single thing in your life is dominated by politics.

"Spirituality", as you put it, is also a "compartmentalized faction of human knowledge" (religion). It's just one persons thoughts about the afterlife/ect. It changes often and is subject to being "fashionable" or "unfashionable", it is almost always "temporal" (no one keeps the same beliefs throughout their entire life), and it's very "immersed in worldly affairs".

Originally Posted by Devotion

But quoting from wikipedia seems like a douche bag move, better to link it, or better yet, write something original!

How is quoting Wikipedia to answer someone's questions when no one else does a "douche bag move"? Like I said earlier, I couldn't be assed to write it myself because the retardation I knew would ensue. As evidenced by earlier posts, I was right in doing do.

[i poop in your cereal]

Capitalism
[YOUTUBE]Cvq3Pf3j61c[/YOUTUBE]

[Shrike]

Politics is basically voting every four to five years (almost pointlessly) and bitching about everything they do (pointlessly) in the intervening time.

[Zay]

Originally Posted by Drox

What's liberalism and conservatism? What are the main ideas of each ideology? Who decides these ideas and why? What if people disagree over what liberalism or conservatism is? Who is the arbiter of who's right? What if someone believes in half of the ideas of liberalism, are they still a liberal? What if they believe in just one idea of liberalism, are they still a liberal? What if they believe in all but one idea of liberalism, are they still a liberal? And who decides this?

Why do people attach themselves to a particular ideology if they may not agree with everything that ideology has to say? What's the minimum one has to accept of a particular ideology to be "a part" of it? What's the point of identifying yourself as a liberal/conversative if many other liberals/conservatives will have differing opinions?

Why do certain parties call themselves one thing when some of their policies may be more in line with the opposite ideology? What's the point of naming parties after an ideology if you're never sure if their actions will be in line with that particular ideology?

In my politics class last year, the prof went over eleven ideas of conservative thought. One of them was that the meaning of the universe is a given (as in not constructed by humans). How is that at all relevant to any policies a conservative party may make? And if it's not, why call yourself conservative?


And of course there's no point in me asking any of this because you'll all disagree on everything and I'll just be more confused.

You don't need to know anything about politics:

1) It's antithetical to getting laid

2) All it does is engage you into long discussions with assholes

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Zay

You don't need to know anything about politics:

1) It's antithetical to getting laid

2) All it does is engage you into long discussions with assholes

So we can assume that you will never again speak of politics?

[Zay]

Originally Posted by Cory

So we can assume that you will never again speak of politics?

Hey Asshole, I'm just warning the guy that he can look forward to girls with glazed eyes who say "senior thesis what?!?" and people like you who speak in cliches so bland they belong on fortune cookies. I didn't say anything about stopping.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Zay

Hey Asshole, I'm just warning the guy that he can look forward to girls with glazed eyes who say "senior thesis what?!?" and people like you who speak in cliches so bland they belong on fortune cookies. I didn't say anything about stopping.

Step it to the left! Step it to the right! You can dodge it all night!

[Shrike]

Originally Posted by Ryan1711

political system =/= politics

That's a very arrogantly western-centric outline of the political system too.

Bryan, shut the fuck up.

I live in the west, I don't interact with people outside the west, I don't give a shit what their political systems are like.

[Former_Member]

Originally Posted by Shrike

Bryan, shut the fuck up.

I live in the west, I don't interact with people outside the west, I don't give a shit what their political systems are like.

You should, they are on the ascendant and we are on the decline.

Anyway, there's a great deal in the West that doesn't operate/seek to operate like that anyway. It still isn't politics anyway, it's the political system in practice (two qualifications there, the system and in practice); there's much more to it, and it's that attitude that makes what you disdain a reality anyway.

[REJ2ESQ]

Originally Posted by Ryan1711

You should, they are on the ascendant and we are on the decline.

Why do you say this? I'm not setting you up for an argument or anything, I'm just generally interested in why you feel this way, as I've heard this kind of thing a lot.

[Former_Member]

Aging population, resource depletion, almost purely service based economy.

Meanwhile, they've got growing populations, cheap labour, (relatively) untapped resource. The West maintains a lead with all it's technology and infrastructure. Technology is never a permanent advantage though, and the rest of the world is catching up fast in developmental terms.

It's a remote, but quite plausible, possibility that Brazil could be the most internationally influential country in the Americas before the end of my lifetime.