Scored a free roadbike to fix/mod!

[yawanur]

So I was driving down the street today and came across a bike in someone's lawn. They wanted it gone, so I grabbed it, and it's in pretty good shape. Tires were flat but inflated fine, shifting is a little sketch but everything works, brakes are fine, came with a pannier for carrying shit and those toecaps on the pedals.

It's called a Lotus 'Excelle'


I'm thinking of doing some minor modifications so I can use it to get around at uni next year, when I'll be living 10 minutes off campus.

First mod I'd like to make is getting rid of some gears. I really like the whole simplicity of fixies, but only one gear seems a bit extreme, so I want to remove all of the gears on the rear hub save one average sized gear. There are 3 gears at the pedals I could still use to pick up some speed.
-Is this the best way to cut down on weight/complexity for what I want? I thought this option would be good because it eliminates the rear derailer assembley, which is much more complicated than the front derailer.

Second thing would be removing the front brakes. If I have rear brakes, is there any point? This would also free the brake lever up for controlling something like a light.

Third, can anyone recommend a good brand of offroad-type tires? It currently has super smooth road tires, but I would like something a little beefier seeing as I'll be riding over plenty of bumps and divots in the pavement.

Fourth, I kind of want to paint the frame, seeing as it's all brown and ugly. I know you're supposed to powder coat them or whatever, but could I get away with higher-quality spraypaint? Obviously it would need a good sanding first.

Fifth, I'm a design student and I'll need to carry tons of shit back and forth to studio. Don't really need advice here, just gotta expand the pannier with custom mounts for my toolbox. Probably add some saddle bag type storage on the sides as well, with a case for large portfolio pieces as well as a tube mount for massive drafting sheets.

Sixth, this bitch is gonna need some fenders if I want to ride it year round. Should I just hunt for other road bikes to cannabilize, or can I get a set that will bolt on really easy for cheap? I'd like to paint these too to match whatever else I do.

thanks in advance frink!

[Virus]

ROADBIKES=FAGS

Sell it for scrap.

[yawanur]

Originally Posted by Virus

ROADBIKES=FAGS

Sell it for scrap.

The instant I saw your name I knew I was about to read an insult, you crazy little meth addict!

On the contrary, they are the single most efficient mode of transportation. sure as hell aren't luxurious, but I'm a student who can't afford car insurance. Got any better ideas?

[Nereth]

You need to retain the rear tensioner anyway don't you? You won't cut down that much more complexity compared to the front I thought.

My bike has been broken for a few years though so I hardly know anything about the specifics of derailer (sp?) gears.

Keep the front brakes, they probably do something like 70% of your braking or more. In fact since people say you can flip over the front of your bike if you clamp down hard enough on the fronts (doubtful but I can't say I tried it), they probably do potentially 100% of the braking in an emergency.

[yawanur]

Originally Posted by Nereth

You need to retain the rear tensioner anyway don't you? You won't cut down that much more complexity compared to the front I thought.
My bike has been broken for a few years though so I hardly know anything about the specifics of derailer (sp?) gears.

I'll take a better look at it soon and post better pics, haven't quite thought it all out yet.

Originally Posted by Nereth

Keep the front brakes, they probably do something like 70% of your braking or more. In fact since people say you can flip over the front of your bike if you clamp down hard enough on the fronts (doubtful but I can't say I tried it), they probably do potentially 100% of the braking in an emergency.

I did that once on someone's bike when I was about ten. Then when I was 17 or so I was riding some really fun steep downhill slopes with drops and things, but I went straight into a muddy patch. My front wheel sunk 8" and I went over the handlebars for a second time, but this time I vaulted off of the bars and landed perfectly about 10' away.

I can't imagine a road bike crash would be so graceful...

[Nereth]

Originally Posted by Runaway_Stapler

I did that once on someone's bike when I was about ten. Then when I was 17 or so I was riding some really fun steep downhill slopes with drops and things, but I went straight into a muddy patch. My front wheel sunk 8" and I went over the handlebars for a second time, but this time I vaulted off of the bars and landed perfectly about 10' away.

I can't imagine a road bike crash would be so graceful...

Long story short, just like a car, front brakes are the hard workers, not the rears. I know I used to be able to easily lock up the rears on my bike, the fronts not so much.

And road bikes can get pretty fast down hills. Down the 80kph hill near my house bike riders have been "pulled over" for speeding before. I think at those speeds worrying about braking performance is important, they're not very heavy anyway.

[Virus]

Originally Posted by Runaway_Stapler

The instant I saw your name I knew I was about to read an insult, you crazy little meth addict!

On the contrary, they are the single most efficient mode of transportation. sure as hell aren't luxurious, but I'm a student who can't afford car insurance. Got any better ideas?

#1 It's not an insult.

#2 I don't do my product and even if I did, I need a new liebig condenser.

#3 Get a dedicated Mountain Bike. As a poor student you can go more places and have more fun on it.

[Virus]

Originally Posted by Nereth

You need to retain the rear tensioner anyway don't you? You won't cut down that much more complexity compared to the front I thought.

My bike has been broken for a few years though so I hardly know anything about the specifics of derailer (sp?) gears.

Keep the front brakes, they probably do something like 70% of your braking or more. In fact since people say you can flip over the front of your bike if you clamp down hard enough on the fronts (doubtful but I can't say I tried it), they probably do potentially 100% of the braking in an emergency.

You can turn it into a single speed without a tensioner, but chain tension becomes hyper critical then. Alternatively, if the rear d-railer isn't functioning properly, and you do not have the ability to remove any of the rings off the cassette or make your own spacers using a miter saw and PVC pipe, you can retain the rear d-railer less the cable use to shift gears to use as a tensioner.

As for the front brakes, keep them 'cause what Nereth said is right.

Or you could do the logical thing and sell it as scrap, because ROADBIKES=FAGS.

[JIGSAW]

Roadbikes are the shit....but they cost a fuckload to set up properly. Your going to need a spare tire+pump+adaptor+tire levers+seatbag=$100 australian, it's easyer and more efficent to change the inner tube then repair it. Look at all the stuff you are going to buy either brand new or second hand and order it online cheaper by a long shot and much better quality.

Though if you are going to carry lots of stuff fuck it and get a big heavy and fast mountain bike. Much better in the urban enviroment unless you hit a cardboard box....ripped 10 spokes out and is now scrap $300 to repair+ new gear system

[yawanur]

Originally Posted by Virus

#1 It's not an insult.

sorry, it's just i usually don't associate FAG! with informal greetings or whatever you meant to say

Originally Posted by Virus

#2 I don't do my product and even if I did, I need a new liebig condenser.

word

Originally Posted by Virus

#3 Get a dedicated Mountain Bike. As a poor student you can go more places and have more fun on it.

don't get me wrong, i love riding this tank

in the summer all around the conservation trails in my town, but I need something for transportation. no suspension makes traveling a hell of a lot easier.

[Virus]

Get a better bashguard. Fag.

[Wooden Pints]

Road bikes and mountain bikes both have their place. I wouldn't want to bike long distances on concrete on a mountain bike or take a road bike on trails.

[ratfrink]

Originally Posted by Runaway_Stapler

So I was driving down the street today and came across a bike in someone's lawn. They wanted it gone, so I grabbed it, and it's in pretty good shape. Tires were flat but inflated fine, shifting is a little sketch but everything works, brakes are fine, came with a pannier for carrying shit and those toecaps on the pedals.

It's called a Lotus 'Excelle'


I'm thinking of doing some minor modifications so I can use it to get around at uni next year, when I'll be living 10 minutes off campus.

Looks good to me. Tange Mangalloy 2001 was an entry-level steel used on early 80s bikes. I've read that it's a bit heavy and dull, but pretty strong. It's not Reynolds 531, but it'll be great for a daily rider! Toeclips are a bonus - you'll wonder how you ever managed to cycle without them.

The frame is a tiny size though! Don't spend money on it unless you're about 5'6" because the frame won't fit, and that's the most important aspect of a bicycle. You might find a longer stem for cheap on ebay - it'll be worth spending a *few* dollars if the bike feels cramped.

Originally Posted by Runaway_Stapler

First mod I'd like to make is getting rid of some gears. I really like the whole simplicity of fixies, but only one gear seems a bit extreme, so I want to remove all of the gears on the rear hub save one average sized gear. There are 3 gears at the pedals I could still use to pick up some speed.
-Is this the best way to cut down on weight/complexity for what I want? I thought this option would be good because it eliminates the rear derailer assembley, which is much more complicated than the front derailer.

Like Nereth said, the rear derailler is needed for chain tension.

If you want a simple gear system, look into hub gears. Sturmey Archer are the most famous brand, and their old AW3 (3 for 3-speed, the gear ratio is 66%, 100% and 133% IIRC) series is absolutely bulletproof - I have one from the 50s that works perfectly. They have no external components (except the shifter and one cable) so are impossible to damage, and need no maintenance except cleaning the chain and adding a drop of oil in the oiler hole every few months.

The downsides are that they're heavy (my AW3 weighed in at 800g) and unless you can build wheels, you'll need to find a wheel with one already. Normally they're found on town bikes which use 591mm wheels, slightly smaller than the 700c that your bike (presumably, although it could be 650c or 650b) uses, so if you want one, you might have to get a shop to build a wheel for you. And like I said, don't bother spending money on this bike.

You could save a few grams by removing the smaller front ring(s) and the front derailler, but most of the weight in a derailler system is in the rear derailler and rear block. You could have a single rear with a triple front, but you'd need a chain tensioner (i.e. hack one out of the old derailler) which means you won't actually save very much weight. I'd go for singlespeed, personally, because cheap shifters and cheap deraillers aren't worth the bother. All you need is a BMX screw-on freewheel and to shorten the chain - this bike'll have horizontal dropouts for adjusting chain tension. Don't convert it to fixed gear - you'll need a fixed rear hub and it's not worth spending money on a cheap frame.

If you wanna keep the gears, one thing I would do is get rid of those 'gutripper' shifters. They were crap when they were new, and they'll be even crapper now. Trawl for some band-on friction-shifters that go on the downtube, and look for a decent brand (like shimano, suntour or campagnolo (campagnolo tend to be a little more expensive)). You'll see that some are marked as 'indexed' or 'non-indexed'. Non-indexed means that they don't 'click' into position, which requires a little more skill when shifting, but they don't go out of alignment after time like cheap indexed ones do.

Originally Posted by Runaway_Stapler

Second thing would be removing the front brakes. If I have rear brakes, is there any point? This would also free the brake lever up for controlling something like a light.

Like Nereth said, in an emergency, your front brake will provide 100% of your braking. On a road bike it's actually the REAR brake which is the more unnecessary - I literally never use the rear on my bikes (unless it's a long descent and I don't want the rims to overheat). On a MTB it's different, but that's because of rough terrain, tyre/ground friction etc.

Originally Posted by Runaway_Stapler

Third, can anyone recommend a good brand of offroad-type tires? It currently has super smooth road tires, but I would like something a little beefier seeing as I'll be riding over plenty of bumps and divots in the pavement.

Cyclocross (CX) tyres are what you want for some offroading. But they're expensive and inefficient on the road because of the knobbly bits, and bad for handling because of block squirm (the rubber knobbles squirm about under cornering loads). CX bikes use the same size wheel as road bikes, so they'll fit on your rims, but...

What you want is touring tyres - they have road tread (i.e. very little tread - you actually don't need any tread on a bicycle road tyre) but wider and therefore comfier. Go into a bike shop and look at 700c tyres - they go up to 35c in width, which is about an inch (with 20c or 23c being standard 'race' width). Be aware that wider sizes might not fit under your brakes or between your forks - take your bike with you, find the size you want, then look online.

Originally Posted by Runaway_Stapler

Fourth, I kind of want to paint the frame, seeing as it's all brown and ugly. I know you're supposed to powder coat them or whatever, but could I get away with higher-quality spraypaint? Obviously it would need a good sanding first.

Yeah you can use car spraypaint, I've done it many times before I got a compressor and gun. With care and practice, you'll get as good a finish as with a gun, but it won't be durable. And it's expensive - 4 cans primer, 6 of colour, 4 lacquer, plus sandpaper and masking tape. If you don't know how to paint, there are a million guides on the internet.

Powdercoating is preferable, I think. Paint from rattle cans chips pretty easily, which isn't what you want on a daily bike. Plus unless you're experienced with painting, powdercoat will have a better finish. And powdercoat is so tough you'll dent the tubes before you chip the paint. Problems with powdercoat are that you can't get metallics or pearls (some places do a clear lacquer with metalflake but I think it looks shit), the finish isn't *perfect* (although it's certainly good enough for anything but a really top-quality bike) and you'll need to completely strip down the bike beforehand, which means buying some tools.

The third option is the famous Rustoleum paint job:
http://www.rickwrench.com/index79mas...llarpaint.html
I did an experiment and ordered some Rustoleum and roller-painted my girlfriend's bike with it. It's by far the cheapest method, and it worked well and you don't need to strip the bike down that much either, but it's fucking messy, takes ages (I did two coats a day for a week, then two weeks to cure before final sanding and polishing (although it's cold and damp in the UK)) and you have to do a lot of sanding to get a good finish. The finish was better than powdercoat and almost as tough. The only reason I wouldn't do it again is because it's a bit of a pain in the arse.

Originally Posted by Runaway_Stapler

Fifth, I'm a design student and I'll need to carry tons of shit back and forth to studio. Don't really need advice here, just gotta expand the pannier with custom mounts for my toolbox. Probably add some saddle bag type storage on the sides as well, with a case for large portfolio pieces as well as a tube mount for massive drafting sheets.

Cool. I just strap my A3 folder to my rack with bungee cords, and anything larger goes in a poster tube or box also strapped to the rack.

Originally Posted by Runaway_Stapler

Sixth, this bitch is gonna need some fenders if I want to ride it year round. Should I just hunt for other road bikes to cannabilize, or can I get a set that will bolt on really easy for cheap? I'd like to paint these too to match whatever else I do.

I'd 'recycle' some personally. Saving money and all that. Cheap plastic mudguards tend to break after a while, and old metal ones tend to rattle. Be aware that mudguards decrease the maximum tyre width you can fit.

Originally Posted by Runaway_Stapler

thanks in advance frink!

No probalo. Sorry for the late reply, I've been away.

[insanebuslady]

Take all the extra crap off of it including that rack, reflectors, etc. Anything that won't hurt the functionality of the bike, you'll seriously cut a few pounds off doing this. Re-wrap the bars, and a get a new saddle if not a whole new seat post. Oh and you should be able to find some down-tube shifters for that to replace those AWFUL stem mounted shifters for next to nothing. Mattering on how much you want to spend, get some aluminum wheels to replace those heavy-ass steel wheels. 1 1/4" (what it looks like are on there) aluminum wheels are very cheap, and you might be able to dig up some 1" wheels that work. Probably about $100 for both wheels. You'll have a nice-looking bike that runs ok and cost next to nothing!

I picked up a decent Schwinn LeTour at a yardsale for NOTHING recently and I've been having fun modding it

[ratfrink]

Don't forget to remove the dork disc on the back wheel too (the thing that prevents you overshifting into the spokes). Break it apart with pliers.

Decent 700c wheelsets with screw-on hubs are pretty cheap on ebay, thanks to the singlespeed/fixed culture going on at the moment. You can re-use your rear block or get a BMX freewheel to convert to singlespeed. If your wheels are 27" (check the tyre) you'll need 4mm extra drop in your brakes because 700c wheels are slightly smaller than 27". You'll also need new tyres and tubes.

My 1950 Claud Butler is drying in the sun - I've scotchbrited the frame and sprayed it with clear lacquer. Looks pretty good because it's fillet-brazed rather than lugged, so it's steel-and-gold coloured.

[yawanur]

Originally Posted by ratfrink

Looks good to me. Tange Mangalloy 2001 was an entry-level steel used on early 80s bikes. I've read that it's a bit heavy and dull, but pretty strong. It's not Reynolds 531, but it'll be great for a daily rider! Toeclips are a bonus - you'll wonder how you ever managed to cycle without them.

Originally Posted by ratfrink

The frame is a tiny size though! Don't spend money on it unless you're about 5'6" because the frame won't fit, and that's the most important aspect of a bicycle. You might find a longer stem for cheap on ebay - it'll be worth spending a *few* dollars if the bike feels cramped.

Yeah, I'm 5' 11'' so it's tight. I rode it a couple miles today and you can definitely feel it. I'll mess around with that soon, but I also have the option of my dad's old road bike, which has a much taller frame. I like the compact nature of the smaller frame, but if it affects my riding that much I'll switch. His bike has gutrippers too

Originally Posted by ratfrink

Like Nereth said, the rear derailler is needed for chain tension.

If you want a simple gear system, look into hub gears. Sturmey Archer are the most famous brand, and their old AW3 (3 for 3-speed, the gear ratio is 66%, 100% and 133% IIRC) series is absolutely bulletproof - I have one from the 50s that works perfectly. They have no external components (except the shifter and one cable) so are impossible to damage, and need no maintenance except cleaning the chain and adding a drop of oil in the oiler hole every few months.

The downsides are that they're heavy (my AW3 weighed in at 800g) and unless you can build wheels, you'll need to find a wheel with one already. Normally they're found on town bikes which use 591mm wheels, slightly smaller than the 700c that your bike (presumably, although it could be 650c or 650b) uses, so if you want one, you might have to get a shop to build a wheel for you. And like I said, don't bother spending money on this bike.

Definitely looking into that. I find bikes at my local dump quite often, hopefully some roadbikes pop up soon. I'm not incredibly concerned with weight as I'll only be doing short sprints on it, reliability and cost are much more important.

Actually just found an old k mart quality mountain bike yesterday [no sus. just knobby tires] but I adjusted the seat/bars and threw on an extra pannier I had and now my sister has a working bike! Although I did break her other bike fucking with the gears meh she didnt use it anyways, now she will

Originally Posted by ratfrink

You could save a few grams by removing the smaller front ring(s) and the front derailler, but most of the weight in a derailler system is in the rear derailler and rear block. You could have a single rear with a triple front, but you'd need a chain tensioner (i.e. hack one out of the old derailler) which means you won't actually save very much weight. I'd go for singlespeed, personally, because cheap shifters and cheap deraillers aren't worth the bother. All you need is a BMX screw-on freewheel and to shorten the chain - this bike'll have horizontal dropouts for adjusting chain tension. Don't convert it to fixed gear - you'll need a fixed rear hub and it's not worth spending money on a cheap frame.

If I can't find an AW3 for cheap/nothing, this will probably happen. If this were the case I'd almost be tempted to get one of those flippable hubs with fixie/coaster on opposite sides, then some quick release levers to release the wheels, but at that point I'd just buy the AW3.

Originally Posted by ratfrink

If you wanna keep the gears, one thing I would do is get rid of those 'gutripper' shifters. They were crap when they were new, and they'll be even crapper now. Trawl for some band-on friction-shifters that go on the downtube, and look for a decent brand (like shimano, suntour or campagnolo (campagnolo tend to be a little more expensive)). You'll see that some are marked as 'indexed' or 'non-indexed'. Non-indexed means that they don't 'click' into position, which requires a little more skill when shifting, but they don't go out of alignment after time like cheap indexed ones do.

On my riding adventure today I confirmed this fact, those shifters BLOW and they aren't tuned so the chain kept slipping and shit.

Hopefully I can strip this off a dump bike as well. I'll hit that place up twice a week until I take home something tasty. Thanks for the tips with indexing/brands, I would have no idea otherwise.

Originally Posted by ratfrink

Like Nereth said, in an emergency, your front brake will provide 100% of your braking. On a road bike it's actually the REAR brake which is the more unnecessary - I literally never use the rear on my bikes (unless it's a long descent and I don't want the rims to overheat). On a MTB it's different, but that's because of rough terrain, tyre/ground friction etc.

shit. alright I'll leave it

Originally Posted by ratfrink

Cyclocross (CX) tyres are what you want for some offroading. But they're expensive and inefficient on the road because of the knobbly bits, and bad for handling because of block squirm (the rubber knobbles squirm about under cornering loads). CX bikes use the same size wheel as road bikes, so they'll fit on your rims, but...

What you want is touring tyres - they have road tread (i.e. very little tread - you actually don't need any tread on a bicycle road tyre) but wider and therefore comfier. Go into a bike shop and look at 700c tyres - they go up to 35c in width, which is about an inch (with 20c or 23c being standard 'race' width). Be aware that wider sizes might not fit under your brakes or between your forks - take your bike with you, find the size you want, then look online.

Sweet, any idea how much the cheapest pair might run me? I'll also look for these on dump bikes, but I'm guessing they'll be more elusive than say, shifters. Probably will end up buying some.

Also: I will be riding in the Canadian winter. probably cobbling together spiked tires as well.

Originally Posted by ratfrink

Yeah you can use car spraypaint, I've done it many times before I got a compressor and gun. With care and practice, you'll get as good a finish as with a gun, but it won't be durable. And it's expensive - 4 cans primer, 6 of colour, 4 lacquer, plus sandpaper and masking tape. If you don't know how to paint, there are a million guides on the internet.

I have an airbrush kit, if that would be cheaper?

Originally Posted by ratfrink

Powdercoating is preferable, I think. Paint from rattle cans chips pretty easily, which isn't what you want on a daily bike. Plus unless you're experienced with painting, powdercoat will have a better finish. And powdercoat is so tough you'll dent the tubes before you chip the paint. Problems with powdercoat are that you can't get metallics or pearls (some places do a clear lacquer with metalflake but I think it looks shit), the finish isn't *perfect* (although it's certainly good enough for anything but a really top-quality bike) and you'll need to completely strip down the bike beforehand, which means buying some tools.

How much does powder coating cost? doesn't sound cheap :/

Originally Posted by ratfrink

The third option is the famous Rustoleum paint job:
http://www.rickwrench.com/index79mas...llarpaint.html
I did an experiment and ordered some Rustoleum and roller-painted my girlfriend's bike with it. It's by far the cheapest method, and it worked well and you don't need to strip the bike down that much either, but it's fucking messy, takes ages (I did two coats a day for a week, then two weeks to cure before final sanding and polishing (although it's cold and damp in the UK)) and you have to do a lot of sanding to get a good finish. The finish was better than powdercoat and almost as tough. The only reason I wouldn't do it again is because it's a bit of a pain in the arse.

Will keep that in mind. I have plenty of time to waste

Originally Posted by ratfrink

Cool. I just strap my A3 folder to my rack with bungee cords, and anything larger goes in a poster tube or box also strapped to the rack.

nice, what size box?

Originally Posted by ratfrink

I'd 'recycle' some personally. Saving money and all that. Cheap plastic mudguards tend to break after a while, and old metal ones tend to rattle. Be aware that mudguards decrease the maximum tyre width you can fit.

dump find for SURE

Originally Posted by insanebuslady

Take all the extra crap off of it including that rack, reflectors, etc. Anything that won't hurt the functionality of the bike, you'll seriously cut a few pounds off doing this. Re-wrap the bars, and a get a new saddle if not a whole new seat post. Oh and you should be able to find some down-tube shifters for that to replace those AWFUL stem mounted shifters for next to nothing. Mattering on how much you want to spend, get some aluminum wheels to replace those heavy-ass steel wheels. 1 1/4" (what it looks like are on there) aluminum wheels are very cheap, and you might be able to dig up some 1" wheels that work. Probably about $100 for both wheels. You'll have a nice-looking bike that runs ok and cost next to nothing!

I picked up a decent Schwinn LeTour at a yardsale for NOTHING recently and I've been having fun modding it

I'm keeping the rack, but I'll be ditching all reflectors in favor of LED lighting, front/back. It's illegal to ride at night without them, plus they make riding at night 10x less scary so why not.

I'll put re-wrapping on my list. Cost estimate?

The seat is fucked [kinda] so yeah maybe. It's also comfortable.

Shifters noted.

$100 is about the most I'd spend on everything, so that could happen sometime in the future. Rims seem like a good way to cut weight [steel->aluminum], good plan.

Originally Posted by ratfrink

Don't forget to remove the dork disc on the back wheel too (the thing that prevents you overshifting into the spokes). Break it apart with pliers.

mmkay

Originally Posted by ratfrink

Decent 700c wheelsets with screw-on hubs are pretty cheap on ebay, thanks to the singlespeed/fixed culture going on at the moment. You can re-use your rear block or get a BMX freewheel to convert to singlespeed. If your wheels are 27" (check the tyre) you'll need 4mm extra drop in your brakes because 700c wheels are slightly smaller than 27". You'll also need new tyres and tubes.

Will be researching, thx mn !

Originally Posted by ratfrink

My 1950 Claud Butler is drying in the sun - I've scotchbrited the frame and sprayed it with clear lacquer. Looks pretty good because it's fillet-brazed rather than lugged, so it's steel-and-gold coloured.

[Vargus]

Originally Posted by Virus

ROADBIKES=FAGS

Sell it for scrap.

What about mountain bikes with road tires?

[ratfrink]

Originally Posted by Runaway_Stapler

Sweet, any idea how much the cheapest pair might run me? I'll also look for these on dump bikes, but I'm guessing they'll be more elusive than say, shifters. Probably will end up buying some.

Also: I will be riding in the Canadian winter. probably cobbling together spiked tires as well.

In the UK, about 10 quid each for cheapy cheap ones, about 20 for decent ones. Schwalbe are a good budget brand, generally.

Last winter I made some studded tyres for my old Aardvark MTB out of some used 26" knobbly tyres and some stubby woodscrews screwed through each of the rubber blocks, then a strip of inner tube glued over the inside of the tyre. They were heavy, but they worked, and were a hell of a lot cheaper than comercially available studded tyres. You could do the same with old CX tyres if you can find some.

Originally Posted by Runaway_Stapler

I have an airbrush kit, if that would be cheaper?



How much does powder coating cost? doesn't sound cheap :/

Airbrush might be cheaper, but how durable is the paint?

Powdercoating is 30-50 a frame in the UK including sandblasting the old paint off. But you have to factor in the cost of the tools you'll need to strip the bike (maybe 70 quid, but they're an investment). Painting a bike with rattlecans would be at least 20 quid, and that's with only a couple of layers.

Originally Posted by Runaway_Stapler

Will keep that in mind. I have plenty of time to waste

I'll post pics of the frame I did at some point

Originally Posted by Runaway_Stapler

nice, what size box?

It's just an old tin I found in the back of the cupboard, with some handles screwed on so I can strap it to the rack. Maybe 12"x12"x8"

Originally Posted by Runaway_Stapler

I'll put re-wrapping on my list. Cost estimate?

Cost of tape - starts at about a tenner from a shop, a bit cheaper on ebay. Labour would be another tenner if you want the shop to wrap the bars for you, but it's not hard to do.

Originally Posted by Runaway_Stapler

$100 is about the most I'd spend on everything, so that could happen sometime in the future. Rims seem like a good way to cut weight [steel->aluminum], good plan.

Definitely wheels. Cheapest way to cut absolute weight (you'll shave off at least 1kg per wheel, even with cheap aluminium wheels), plus weight saved in the wheels is worth more than weight saved in the frame (as wheels are rotating mass).

[ratfrink]

Originally Posted by Vargus

What about mountain bikes with road tires?

Worst of both worlds. Heavy unaerodynamic needlessly complicated bike with completely wrong frame geometry that can't even go offroad. They do make a MTB a little more bearable on the road, but not even the best slicked MTB could compete with a mid-level road bike.

Considering that used road bikes can be found as cheap as a pair of new 26" slicks, it's not worth it.

The only scenario would be if you wanted to road-ride to your preferred MTB location and swapped the tyres when you got there (which I do occasionally). Or if you only had space for one bike (which is why my Aardvark is slicked up - I only have space for three bikes (plus a few more (well, 5 more) at my parents house, but that's 250 miles away...) - my Core Genesis MTB which is solely for MTBing, my Claud Butler racing bike which is too good to leave locked up in town, and my Aardvark which is the town-and-country hack bike depending on which tyres are on it)

[Vargus]

I've never seen a road bike more aerodynamic than a mountain bike, unless if had the spokes covered up like ones at Tour de France.

In fact, the mountain bike I have has frame members shaped like aircraft support structures. Those are way more aerodynamic than a round tube.

A road bike does weigh much less, though.

[yawanur]

Originally Posted by Vargus

In fact, the mountain bike I have has frame members shaped like aircraft support structures. Those are way more aerodynamic than a round tube.

yeah same, but on my frame the shaping means the tubes are like 3" in diameter. road bike? about 1" in diameter. surface area > aerodynamic shaping, at least for my bikes.

[ratfrink]

Originally Posted by Vargus

I've never seen a road bike more aerodynamic than a mountain bike, unless if had the spokes covered up like ones at Tour de France.

In fact, the mountain bike I have has frame members shaped like aircraft support structures. Those are way more aerodynamic than a round tube.

I'd disagree. Road bikes, especially triathlon and TT bikes, are designed to be as aerodynamic as possible (within the rules of course), whereas it's not really a consideration in mountain bikes.

Clearances between components (especially between the wheels and the frame) are much narrower and on higher end bikes, a lot of componentry (cables, headset bearings, seat post mounts etc) are hidden inside the frame itself. Components are designed to be more aerodynamic (especially brake calipers). Water bottles are aerodynamically shaped and placed on the frame to smooth the airflow over the legs and rear wheel. Chainwheels on TT bikes are solid discs.

Also the frontal section of narrow road rims and tyres is much less than wide MTB rims/tyres, and deep section rims with sharp trailing edges are more aerodynamic than box-rims usually found on MTBs. Disc wheel or tri-/quad- spoke wheels are often found on TT bikes. Also on traditional wire-spoked wheels, the spoke count is usually low (24 or 28) and the spokes themselves are aerodynamically shaped, unlike the usually round-section spokes of MTB wheels. And although Stapler's road bike has round section tubing, teardrop tubing is standard on modern road bikes.

Finally and most importantly, perhaps, the position of the contact points on a road bike pushes the rider into a narrow 'tuck' which is a far more aerodynamic position than the fairly wide and upright position on a mountain bike. Triathlon bars found on TT bikes really make a massive difference to aerodynamics.

This bike is a decent example of aerodynamics in road bikes:


If you're interested, Bicycling Science has a decent chapter on bicycle aerodynamics. Given that aerodynamics is by far the largest limiting factor on the speed of a road bike, any little improvement is worth capitalising on.

[Vargus]

What is this "contact points" you speak of?

And why the hell didn't these rocket scientists put dimples in the frame like a golf ball? Aerodynamic my ass!

[ratfrink]

Contact points is where your arse, feet and hands go.

Mountain bikes tend to have a higher bottom bracket (the bearing around which the pedals rotate) for ground clearance, a comparatively shorter distance between the bottom bracket and the saddle (so that the rider can position his/her weight easily without a seatpost getting in the way) and comparatively high and wide handlebars for better stability and control.

Road bikes tend to have lower bottom brackets and a comparatively larger distance between the pedals and the seatpost so that the rider's legs can reach full extension without them needing to stand up. Handlebars are much lower (usually lower than the saddle) and very narrow, which forces the rider to bend forwards which gives a much smaller frontal profile. 'TT' bars are even narrower.

Compare:
MTB


Road bike


TT bike



As for dimpled surfaces, you've gotta remember that 'wind resistance' is caused by two main types of forces. One is normal to the surface of the resisted body (felt as pressure from the wind), the other is tangential to the surface (i.e. skin friction). Given that a bicycle is (due to rules and regulations from the UCI) essentially a non-streamlined body, it's the pressure forces rather than the friction that is the main factor in bicycle aerodynamics, and dimpled surfaces don't have any effect on the pressure forces.

It does, however, make a fair bit of difference in partially- or fully-faired bicycles, which is why a lot of them do feature wake-reducing 'trips' on the outer shell.

[abusername]

Originally Posted by Virus

#1 It's not an insult.

#2 I don't do my product and even if I did, I need a new liebig condenser.

#3 Get a dedicated Mountain Bike. As a poor student you can go more places and have more fun on it.

You don't do your product? You just admitted to dealing meth on the internet, have fun going to jail faggot, I just reported you to the FBI

[Vargus]

lol @ TT bike guy. That looks like a pretty uncomfortable position that his arms are in.

[Virus]

Originally Posted by abusername

You don't do your product? You just admitted to dealing meth on the internet, have fun going to jail faggot, I just reported you to the FBI

You need to report me to the DEA-not the FBI, love.

You also need to watch breaking bad season 1

[ratfrink]

Originally Posted by Vargus

lol @ TT bike guy. That looks like a pretty uncomfortable position that his arms are in.

Yeah, normally your curved arm provides some suspension, but I've ridden bikes with TT bars and they deliver any road shock directly to your elbow and straight up your humerus into your shoulder. They ain't built for comfort though!