Is it ethical for a poor person to steal from a rich person?

[Jim Morrison]

I believe this is better suited here than BI as this is a discussion about ethics rather than crime.

Anyhoo, the other day a customer at my workplace dropped their mobile phone and after leaving it I kept it behind the counter for a week with the intention of handing it back. Anyway it's been a week so I've taken the simcard out and the phones unlocked except the owners photos and videos are still there.

So anyway I'm going through the videos and pictures and I see this owner travels overseas a lot, is a music producer, likes cats, has been with the same girlfriend for over 2 years.

My question is, given the above he must obviously be a happy and well-off person. Does this make it OK for me to now have his phone? I'm poor and can't afford a mobile and have always needed one for easier job-searching.

What do you think? Does the means justify the ends?

[Vizier]

Well, there's this phrase that goes "keepers....something".

Just take it.

[Rainycity]

I say yes, he probably thinks hes not getting it back, but if you want to give it back thats alright its all up to you, me i would care either way, like if i dont need/want the phone id give it back and feel good. If i want it, ill still feel food, NEW PHONE>

[Jim Morrison]

i'm certainly not giving it back. don't know whether to keep it or sell though (it's an n95, a few scratches). ive transferred all the files to my computer and will find out who the owner is so i can send them their data on a usb stick without them knowing who i am.

i didn't feel bad at all until i went to the photos (kept telling myself not to because id regret it but couldnt resist) and saw his 100s of cat photos. he really loves his cat. thats why i want him to keep the pics etc

[Rainycity]

Originally Posted by Jim Morrison

i'm certainly not giving it back. don't know whether to keep it or sell though (it's an n95, a few scratches). ive transferred all the files to my computer and will find out who the owner is so i can send them their data on a usb stick without them knowing who i am.

Now thats a douche move, OK HERE YOU GO< you can have your pictures back but im keeping your phone, know he knows someone stole it were before he though he lost it.

[Jim Morrison]

what? i understood the 1st part of your post (I think) and how is it a douche move? A douche move would be if I didn't even care about him and didn't send him his files back.

this guy obviously has money, he had heaps of pictures in a bedroom of synths, monitors, decks, etc, thousands of $$$ worth of music equipment. I don't feel bad at all because he can afford a phone I can't. i dont want him to lose his cat photos though. makes perfect sense to me.

[Rainycity]

no i would kinda of be pissed if someone returned my photos and not my phone, thats like returning m wallet with no money in it.

[Jim Morrison]

lol yeah. fuck him though. its not for him its for me, i would feel better if i know he hasnt lost his photos. i dont really care what he thinks tho

[Optionryder420]

This is actually a good question.

Stealing and ethics is something I've pondered MANY times and I can never come up with a black and white area when it comes to theft. It is all one large gray area to me, maybe to you it is something else. I believe everyone has their own separate ethics when it comes to theft as it is a bottom rung of being wrong, definitely below battery, murder, rape, etc.

My ideas on theft may not match up with yours, but here it goes...

Never steal from people you know. This part isn't about ethics, this is about not getting caught. Personal ethics don't mean shit when you're sitting in a jail cell.

This is what I'd say is the most important thing to remember about theft, don't get caught. Everything you do when it comes to theft should be in YOUR best interest, after all, you're being selfish enough just stealing something, you need to protect yourself.

Is what you're stealing worth it to you and the person you're stealing from?

What I mean by this, is you have to weigh your benefit out with the anguish of the person you're stealing from. For instance, you find a purse in on school grounds. Take the purse initially, don't look in it until you are alone still on campus or in the general area. Let's say SSN card is there, credit cards, etc. but there's only $20. This is an example of a time I would take the purse to lost and found. The stress and anxiety of the person you stole from isn't worth the $20 you're about to benefit. SSN card, credit cards, and other things just aren't worth the added risk anyways so you won't profit from these. While you may take it and make $20 imagine how the person you stole from is feeling about just losing their info and everything. If that same purse though has $100+ in it, than it is worth it. You made a significant gain for basically nothing and that much money is worth that person's own personal pain.

The beauty of working in this way is that you at times will be doing the right thing but it's for the wrong reasons. This further conceals your true identity. If people notice you doing good deeds, when bad ones occur you will be further from being a suspect. Hence why you wait until something is going to pay off and be worth it instead of just taking everything. If you were the guy that took the whole purse for $20 people will take notice. Not saying they will know you did it, but if anyone noticed you in the area they will suspect some foul play.

Stealing from rich or poor has no bearing on how I would operate (take note I haven't stolen anything in at least 2 years). The main idea behind stealing is immediate personal profit. It is no more ethical to take a dollar from a rich man or from a bum/poor person. The truth is, possessions aren't really yours unless you can protect them. If something is capable of being stolen, without the person stealing getting caught, it is an ethical theft.

This guy left the phone there, it's been a while and you had full intentions of turning it back over. I would say the right thing to do, as far as theft goes, would be to put the sim card back in, hold onto it for a little while longer. I'd say 3 weeks in, he isn't coming to get the phone back, he forgot where he lost it.

If you took it now, there's still a chance he'd come back wanting his phone. This will label you as a thief, possibly get you in trouble at your job, and definitely make people more suspect of you. Also, for all you know, this guy being rich and all could help you out down the road if he comes in looking for his phone and you bust it out telling him you kept good care of it and were looking for him but didn't want to go through his phone for privacy reasons.

Ethics in theft=profit whether recognized immediately or down the road.

I guess I'm kinda a sick fuck for how I think of these things, there's far more in depth I could go but I'm not going to type it all.

[Cory]

^ It won't let me thank your post.

[King of the world]

I'll sum it up with my signature.

Might makes right. It's perfectly fine.

[felonious_monk]

no one has mentioned that he probably has got a new phone by now...or at least I didn't catch it.
Definitely send him all his pictures and stuff. He likes cats and anyone who likes cats generally ends up being a pretty cool person.
I don't think it makes it ok to steal his phone but maybe hold it for a week longer or something idk I probably would return it but it's up to you

[Dysgraphia]

Judging that the fucker is probably another pretentious rich fuck, keep the phone.

You shouldn't have any second thoughts about it. It's his fault after all and fuck karma.

[mental retard]

Originally Posted by Dysgraphia

Judging that the fucker is probably another pretentious rich fuck, keep the phone.

You shouldn't have any second thoughts about it. It's his fault after all and fuck karma.

are you asian?

[Dysgraphia]

Originally Posted by mental retard

are you asian?

No.

[Optionryder420]

Originally Posted by Cory

^ It won't let me thank your post.

Damn, I've been struck by the no thanks in GS rule.

[Tommy Lund]

I would say no, but it is better than stealing from other poor people.

[Zero Emissions Edition]

Fuck his cat photos. He can sit there and look at his cats all fuckin day.

[Zero Emissions Edition]

If you ask me, any person who has 100s of cat photos has a problem. 4 or 5 I can understand. Anything over 10 is going overboard unless he has a lot of cats. But triple figures is a problem.

[Nachismo]

Hey Jim, imo the means don't justify the ends.(Karma is a bitch)

Have you considered putting a "found" ad out there someplace, like in a local paper or craigslist?

If he misses it, he could spot the ad. Maybe consider keeping it really general.(something like found n95 and the date you found it).This way, if there is no response you can keep it without feeling too sheepish about it.(Hell he would probably call it, see what happens with the sim in there).

Is he a regular customer?

[Zero Emissions Edition]

He probably knows exactly where he lost it, but he's too embarassed to come and claim it because he's worried you've been looking at his cat photos.

In all likelyhood, he doesn't want you to know that it belongs to him.

[Killme]

Originally Posted by Tommy Lund

I would say no, but it is better than stealing from other poor people.

Right. Theft is usually frowned upon. I guess I wouldn't feel I did something wrong if the person I stole from didn't even notice what I stole.

[Former_Member]

Well, rich people don't deserve their shit anyway- which justifies it in a sense.

Ultimately though, it's not a problem that should be justified with individual actions (not that 'theft' can't be justified, in dire need or whatever) so I don't know how ethical it could be considered.

I'd say keep it then, but I'd be damn pissed if somebody stole my shit no matter how well off I was. The guy is doing well for himself, so what's the harm?

[constantinople]

Why not phone up Robin Hood, and ask him for some, wealth distribution?

[Unwyred]

Personally I would have found an ambiguous number in his contact list linke "Home" or something of the sort to tell him you had found his phone and then set up a way to return to him but that's just me.

Regardless of a person's wealth or social standing, I disagree with stealing personal property from people. Most of them have worked hard to get where they are and it's pretty shitty to try to justify theft just because they can afford to be stolen from.

Stealing from the government on the other hand is a different story. Every country in the world is led by a corrupt system that since its inception has stolen from its citizens, be it their basic human rights, money, land, etc. Steal from the government all you like, just not the personal property and assets of another citizen who's worked for it.

[[][][][]]

^^^What if they work for the government THEN WHAT?!?!?!

[Unwyred]

Originally Posted by [][][][]

^^^What if they work for the government THEN WHAT?!?!?!

If it's their personal property leave it alone. If you find a loophole on your taxes to jew the IRS, go for it.

[Former_Member]

If anything, stealing from the state (tax fraud or something) is worse, because the state is the one that provides for the people, the poor people most importantly.

Personal property, especially that of the rich, is rarely earned. It's handed to them on a platter; even if it has come from their own positions in the world, those positions still wouldn't have been achieved had the world been stacked fairly.

[iMagiNation]

lol, that's not stealing.

also, no war but class war ^.<

personally I feel it's putting so much importance on material goods that's the cause of more anguish than the "free" flowing of such goods.

[Optionryder420]

Originally Posted by Ryan1711

If anything, stealing from the state (tax fraud or something) is worse, because the state is the one that provides for the people, the poor people most importantly.

Personal property, especially that of the rich, is rarely earned. It's handed to them on a platter; even if it has come from their own positions in the world, those positions still wouldn't have been achieved had the world been stacked fairly.

Wow, you're a fucking idiot.

Are you really this jaded?

[Former_Member]

Originally Posted by Optionryder420

Wow, you're a fucking idiot.

Why do you say that? Because I bite the hand that feeds?

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Nachismo

Hey Jim, imo the means don't justify the ends.(Karma is a bitch)

Don't worry, there is no such thing as karma.

[Optionryder420]

Originally Posted by Ryan1711

Why do you say that? Because I bite the hand that feeds?

Well, at least you indirectly answered my question.

[negative_zero]

Ryan, why so communist?

[Clover]

Originally Posted by Ryan1711

Well, rich people don't deserve their shit anyway- which justifies it in a sense.

how the fuck do you know that? There are a lot of rich people that worked really hard for what they have.

[Former_Member]

Originally Posted by Clover

how the fuck do you know that? There are a lot of rich people that worked really hard for what they have.

What's working hard, and what is it in that which means they 'deserve' more than the poorer people- the people who the world couldn't function without.

The hardest working jobs are often the lowest rewarded, yet entirely essential to modern life.

[HAS]

At this point he's probably replaced it. That being said, it's definitely going to show up as stolen if you try to use it.

[The Jitterskull]

If you steal money from someone who did it through evil means, I wouldn't care.

If you steal money from a rich person who worked his ass off to be rich, then yes I agree it's wrong.

[Lord hang man]

Yes; I hope so.

[Mantikore]

did his cat look somewhat like this
??