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  #1  
Old 09-16-2010, 06:25 AM
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Default Tor is not secure

Ok, so you are using Tor on your computer.

The website you visit might not know you who you are.

You are still accessing the internet via a computer. That computer has unique hardware codes on it.

Signals Intelligence organisations will be aware someone is accessing a Tor program. They will trace that almost instantly to your individual computer and your individual internet account. They might even GPS it and get your location on the planet.

You are more at risk of government surveillance using Tor than not.

Using Tor is very useful for things like going on forums or chat or websites that are high risk where you don't want hackers to be totally aware of who you are. It makes it hard for them.

It just makes it easier for the government.

Last edited by themessenger; 09-16-2010 at 07:09 AM.
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Old 09-16-2010, 06:30 AM
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Default Re: Tor is not secure

"Unique hardware codes?" "GPS it?"

lolz...
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Old 09-16-2010, 06:35 AM
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Default Re: Tor is not secure

Their backtracing abilities are astounding.
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  #4  
Old 09-16-2010, 06:40 AM
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Default Re: Tor is not secure

Dude, you're an idiot. Internet account? What exactly the fuck are you talking about? How exactly would they be able to use a GPS to find the location of a computer that's connected through an encrypted connection with scripting and referrer info turned off? How exactly does it make it easer for the government?
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Old 09-16-2010, 06:57 AM
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Default Re: Tor is not secure

When you access the internet you are using an internet account. It might not be your internet account, but it is someones internet account, and that is traceable to a location with extreme accuracy, regardless of if it is wired or wireless, and hardware codes on your computer will give away the computer being used.
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Old 09-16-2010, 07:00 AM
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Default Re: Tor is not secure


lrn2internet
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Old 09-16-2010, 07:03 AM
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Default Re: Tor is not secure

Quote:
Originally Posted by themessenger View Post
When you access the internet you are using an internet account. It might not be your internet account, but it is someones internet account, and that is traceable to a location with extreme accuracy, regardless of if it is wired or wireless, and hardware codes on your computer will give away the computer being used.
exactly what do you think is being traced? the end traffic? From where?
since both ends should be encrypted via tor, and anonymized...i have a feeling you're talking out your ass.
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Old 09-16-2010, 07:07 AM
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Default Re: Tor is not secure

Quote:
Originally Posted by zos View Post
exactly what do you think is being traced? the end traffic? From where?
since both ends should be encrypted via tor, and anonymized...i have a feeling you're talking out your ass.
Anyone who has access to digital encryption the government cannot break is not a civilian.

You cannot be anonymous on a network. It is impossible. The government will know, even if it is a LAN.

There is no civilian encryption that is unbreakable. And if it is unbreakable there is water boarding.

Using encryption or other methods to try and remain anonymous makes you more visible to the government and more likely to be monitored.
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Old 09-16-2010, 07:09 AM
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Default Re: Tor is not secure

I know nothing about tor, but the post brought this to mind.

http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2010/01...owser-tracking
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  #10  
Old 09-16-2010, 07:11 AM
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Default Re: Tor is not secure

Quote:
Originally Posted by themessenger View Post
You cannot be anonymous on a network. It is impossible. The government will know, even if it is a LAN.
Now I remember, all ethernet and wifi cards have a special wireless chip that echos all data to the NSA, CIA, and FBI.


I think this guy's trolling...
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Old 09-16-2010, 07:15 AM
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Default Re: Tor is not secure

Quote:
Originally Posted by J-KO View Post
I know nothing about tor, but the post brought this to mind.

http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2010/01...owser-tracking
I just went there and got this:

Within our dataset of several million visitors, only one in 585,698 browsers have the same fingerprint as yours.


That is not good if I was trying to be anonymous. You would want extremely common set ups if you were wanting to be anonymous.

With extremely common set ups you are also more vulnerable to exploits and hacks.
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  #12  
Old 09-16-2010, 07:15 AM
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Default Re: Tor is not secure

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fractals View Post
Now I remember, all ethernet and wifi cards have a special wireless chip that echos all data to the NSA, CIA, and FBI.


I think this guy's trolling...
trolling, paranoid, or retarded. "even on a LAN" pretty much clinched that.
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Old 09-16-2010, 07:31 AM
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Default Re: Tor is not secure

Quote:
Originally Posted by zos View Post
trolling, paranoid, or retarded. "even on a LAN" pretty much clinched that.
LAN's are not secure.

I can't be bothered explaining to you how, because if you were capable of understanding it, with an interest in security and encryption you would probably be aware of how it is possible.

So I guess it is beyond your scope of understanding.

It's amazing how I come here to try and help people, and even the mods can be fucking arseholes to someone who wants to give you assistance.
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Old 09-16-2010, 07:35 AM
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Default Re: Tor is not secure

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip View Post
If you use Tor hidden services (*.onion) or you use SSL (https://) you are secure. If you want to use Tor to fuck random people over you can run an exit node, capture and analyze HTTP traffic.
...
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  #15  
Old 09-16-2010, 07:36 AM
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Default Re: Tor is not secure

Not my board mate, i'm just another user here.

one who's asking you to back up your statements, which thus far appear to be a bit lacking in anything like sense.

you make a very blanket statement "tor is not secure" then follow it up with a bunch of things not particularly related to tor, throw in a technical phrases...ah screw it, go use Haystack then, i hear it's uberleet.
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Old 09-16-2010, 07:55 AM
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Default Re: Tor is not secure

Quote:
Originally Posted by zos View Post
Not my board mate, i'm just another user here.

one who's asking you to back up your statements, which thus far appear to be a bit lacking in anything like sense.

you make a very blanket statement "tor is not secure" then follow it up with a bunch of things not particularly related to tor, throw in a technical phrases...ah screw it, go use Haystack then, i hear it's uberleet.
There is no way that thing is secure.

But I'm sure it works to get around firewalls.
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Old 09-16-2010, 07:56 AM
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Default Re: Tor is not secure

No one's saying tor is secure, we're just saying you have no idea what you're talking about.
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Old 09-16-2010, 07:56 AM
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Default Re: Tor is not secure

'Your browser fingerprint appears to be unique among the 1,171,420 tested so far.'

Ruh roh.
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Old 09-16-2010, 08:05 AM
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Default Re: Tor is not secure

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fractals View Post
No one's saying tor is secure, we're just saying you have no idea what you're talking about.
FACT:

There is nothing in civilian hands that the government cannot access.

FACT:

There is plenty in foreign military and government hands that the government can access.
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Old 09-16-2010, 08:10 AM
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Default Re: Tor is not secure

Do you have any proof? Do you have any idea how electronics and digital circuitry works? How many conspiracy theories do you believe? How many don't you believe? (I'm guessing the last answer will be 'very few')
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Old 09-16-2010, 08:19 AM
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Default Re: Tor is not secure

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Originally Posted by Fractals View Post
Do you have any proof? Do you have any idea how electronics and digital circuitry works? How many conspiracy theories do you believe? How many don't you believe? (I'm guessing the last answer will be 'very few')
Proof: Patriot act.

If there was anything in the USA that was uncrackable, it would not be available.

I'm not going to discuss basic electronics theory and applications (I don't have advanced knowledge), if you cannot make a logic leap from the basic information I just provided there is no point going in to further detail.

Now fuck off, I have been more than nice to you, and you have been more than an arsehole to me. I don't wish to communicate with you any further.
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Old 09-16-2010, 08:26 AM
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Default Re: Tor is not secure

Quote:
Originally Posted by themessenger View Post
Proof: Patriot act.

If there was anything in the USA that was uncrackable, it would not be available.

I'm not going to discuss basic electronics theory and applications (I don't have advanced knowledge), if you cannot make a logic leap from the basic information I just provided there is no point going in to further detail.

Now fuck off, I have been more than nice to you, and you have been more than an arsehole to me. I don't wish to communicate with you any further.
Not proof that it's legally possible, proof that it's physically/electronically possible. The technology to spy on a private, isolated network does not exist.
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Old 09-16-2010, 08:27 AM
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Default Re: Tor is not secure

Quote:
Originally Posted by themessenger View Post
LAN's are not secure.

I can't be bothered explaining to you how, because if you were capable of understanding it, with an interest in security and encryption you would probably be aware of how it is possible.

So I guess it is beyond your scope of understanding.
Try explaining it to me skippy. I worked at a N.A.S.A. R Center as a senior network admin attached to infrastructure group and at a state university as a senior network analyst.

If you were half a sharp as you are trying to come off you could certainly draw some analogies that would help others understand what you are trying to say. But since the best you can do is insult others without giving anything remotely like an explanation to legitimate questions it would be ludicrous for anyone to assume anything other than that you are a big mouth who is full of puppy shit.



Quote:
Originally Posted by themessenger View Post
It's amazing how I come here to try and help people, and even the mods can be fucking arseholes to someone who wants to give you assistance.
You have not tried to do anything other than to make a blanket statement that TOR is not secure. Helping is the last hing you have done. In fact you have done more harm than help.

If what you say is correct then the harm you have caused is that you have taken a truth and cast serious shadows of doubt upon it by being evasive and insulting when people asked legitimate questions.

The alternative scenario is that you are full of shit and have no clue what you are talking about. If that is the case then the harm you have caused is that you have scared certain less confident individuals into believing that that a secure technology is making them more vulnerable. Thereby causing them to abandoned it's use and making them more vulnerable in reality.

So I would suggest that if your true motive is to help others you either explain your claim in terms that the average system user can understand (and anyone who is an expert in a given field has a firm enough grasp on the knowledge of that field to break it down in a manner that the average man can at least get the gist of) or help by admitting that you are full of shit and don't really know what you are talking about.

Before you shoot of at me in a further demonstration of hostility you need to understand I am not saying you are full of shit or you are not full of shit. I am simply outlining the two possibilities I see here along with their dynamics and possible ramifications.

So what's it gonna be boy? An explanation or an admission?
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Last edited by TheDarkRodent; 09-16-2010 at 08:31 AM.
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Old 09-16-2010, 08:29 AM
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Default Re: Tor is not secure

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Originally Posted by Fractals View Post
Not proof that it's legally possible, proof that it's physically/electronically possible. The technology to spy on a private, isolated network does not exist.
The technology to spy on anything electronic does exist and has for decades.

Anything electronic requires Hz. Hz is frequency. All frequencies can be detected.

Have a nice day.

Now I sincerely ask you to fuck off. The proof you were after is in this thread. I have been nicer to you than you deserve.
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Old 09-16-2010, 08:31 AM
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Default Re: Tor is not secure

So basically you're just pulling this out of your ass due to vague paranoia, with no specific technical insight that could be used to improve it?
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Old 09-16-2010, 08:36 AM
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Default Re: Tor is not secure

Quote:
Originally Posted by themessenger View Post
The technology to spy on anything electronic does exist and has for decades.

Anything electronic requires Hz. Hz is frequency. All frequencies can be detected.

Have a nice day.

Now I sincerely ask you to fuck off. The proof you were after is in this thread. I have been nicer to you than you deserve.
LOL Hz is a unit to measure frequency. All types of waves have measurable frequencies, and radio waves can be easily intercepted. An oscillator sending pulses of electricity through a wire also has a measurable frequency.

I call troll.
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Old 09-16-2010, 08:37 AM
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Default Re: Tor is not secure

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Originally Posted by Derodentrant View Post
Try explaining it to me skippy. I worked at a N.A.S.A. R Center as a senior network admin attached to infrastructure group and at a state university as a senior network analyst.
That doesn't say much.

It says you claim online to have worked for NASA. I am assuming the space agency. It says you claim online to have worked in computers for NASA in the department that works on infrastructure. What is infrastructure? Did you work in the building services/maintenance sector in their IT department? It also says that you worked at a university, but not as a teacher.

Quote:
If you were half a sharp as you are trying to come off you could certainly draw some analogies that would help others understand what you are trying to say. But since the best you can do is insult others without giving anything remotely like an explanation to legitimate questions it would be ludicrous for anyone to assume anything other than that you are a big mouth who is full of puppy shit.
I am more than accommodating. Check my reply previous to this one.

You might have a hard time understanding it though, as you seem to be a computer type of person only.

It is extremely simple.

Quote:
You have not tried to do anything other than to make a blanket statement that TOR is not secure. Helping is the last hing you have done. In fact you have done more harm than help.
Nothing electronic in America that is not government is secure. If something was detected that might almost be secure, it would be confiscated.

Quote:
f what you say is correct then the harm you have caused is that you have taken a truth and cast serious shadows of doubt upon it by being evasive and insulting when people asked legitimate questions.
I have not been evasive or insulting except where required.

And I know what I am talking about.

If you use encryption or try to be anonymous you will alert the government.

Anyone who needed to know that would already know.

I don't need to know, it used to be a hobby of mine.
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Old 09-16-2010, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by themessenger View Post
The technology to spy on anything electronic does exist and has for decades.

Anything electronic requires Hz. Hz is frequency. All frequencies can be detected.

Have a nice day.

Now I sincerely ask you to fuck off. The proof you were after is in this thread. I have been nicer to you than you deserve.
So you're saying that the government is going to find out through Tor what browser/OS you're using, and then they're going to use magic to figure out what frequency your computer is creating out of all the billions of electronic devices there are, and somehow find out who you are.

You're assuming that the government has technology beyond our years to somehow spy on every single American(or Terran for that matter) through consumer electronics, which you have absolutely no proof of.
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Old 09-16-2010, 08:39 AM
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Default Re: Tor is not secure

Quote:
Originally Posted by themessenger View Post
The technology to spy on anything electronic does exist and has for decades.

Anything electronic requires Hz. Hz is frequency. All frequencies can be detected.

Have a nice day.

Now I sincerely ask you to fuck off. The proof you were after is in this thread. I have been nicer to you than you deserve.

Just because something operates in a frequency range does not mean that it can be monitored. The signal strength on a cat 5 cable located on an isolated LAN not connected to WAN, intranet, or internet is far too week to be remotely detected, monitored, and decipherable into useful information. Where is your proof that technology exists that is capable of this level of intrusion?


You have not provided proof of anything in ITT thread other than mounting evidence that you are a fail troll. Tossing out a few terms like Hz and frequency is not proof of anything yet alone the claims you have made ITT.

Please provide some empirical evidence of your claims or GTFO.
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Old 09-16-2010, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Butcher View Post
So basically you're just pulling this out of your ass due to vague paranoia, with no specific technical insight that could be used to improve it?
Anything electronic can be intercepted.
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Old 09-16-2010, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by themessenger View Post
Anything electronic can be intercepted.
No doubt, but if you understand the point of an open source software project you would realize how useless your claims really are. It's a cat and mouse game, these security projects continuously try to improve their software and police/intelligence agencies/etc. continuously try to defeat it. If you can't improve the software then your paranoid claims are useless.

As of now there is no evidence that Tor is insecure, in the future we can reasonably assume it will be defeated, and when it is it will be improved.

Last edited by Butcher; 09-16-2010 at 08:47 AM.
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Old 09-16-2010, 08:49 AM
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Default Re: Tor is not secure

Quote:
Originally Posted by Derodentrant View Post
Just because something operates in a frequency range does not mean that it can be monitored. The signal strength on a cat 5 cable located on an isolated LAN not connected to WAN, intranet, or internet is far too week to be remotely detected, monitored, and decipherable into useful information. Where is your proof that technology exists that is capable of this level of intrusion?


You have not provided proof of anything in ITT thread other than mounting evidence that you are a fail troll. Tossing out a few terms like Hz and frequency is not proof of anything yet alone the claims you have made ITT.

Please provide some empirical evidence of your claims or GTFO.
Also, a metal computer case is a pretty good rf shield.
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Old 09-16-2010, 08:53 AM
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Default Re: Tor is not secure

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Originally Posted by themessenger View Post
That doesn't say much.

It says you claim online to have worked for NASA. I am assuming the space agency. It says you claim online to have worked in computers for NASA in the department that works on infrastructure. What is infrastructure? Did you work in the building services/maintenance sector in their IT department? It also says that you worked at a university, but not as a teacher.



I am more than accommodating. Check my reply previous to this one.

You might have a hard time understanding it though, as you seem to be a computer type of person only.

It is extremely simple.



Nothing electronic in America that is not government is secure. If something was detected that might almost be secure, it would be confiscated.



I have not been evasive or insulting except where required.

And I know what I am talking about.

If you use encryption or try to be anonymous you will alert the government.

Anyone who needed to know that would already know.

I don't need to know, it used to be a hobby of mine.

You have completely failed to address a single question in this entire thread. You have insulted anyone who does not accept your one line claims that have no supporting data whatsoever. When I explain to you that I have a background that is capable of understanding any explanation that you might care to attempt beyond "You should believe this because I said so and I know what I ma talking about. Besides you would not understand it if I explained it so I won't waste my time. I am smart and you are stupid so just listen to what I say and take it for gospel." Rather than attempting to engage in a meaningful technical discussion you cast disparaging commentary on my brief outline of my background.

If you knew anything about the structuring of most enterprise IT environments you would know exactly what an Infrastructure Group's function were in relation to network administration. So since the best you could do was to make some wise crack about building maintenance ir is now quite obvious that you are nothing but a fail troll.

When I initially posted I had some hope that you might actually just be an asshole but possibly still knew what you were talking about. I had some hope that you could work pass your obvious personality challenges and I might learn something about TOR technology that I was not aware of.

But I see now that you are just a plain asshole that has nothing of intellectual value to add to fail troll thread started by a fail troll asshole.


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zuperxtreme (09-21-2010)
  #34  
Old 09-16-2010, 08:56 AM
Fractals Fractals is offline
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Default Re: Tor is not secure

that^
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  #35  
Old 09-16-2010, 09:04 AM
Dr. Phail Dr. Phail is offline
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Default Re: Tor is not secure

Quote:
Originally Posted by themessenger View Post
Anything electronic can be intercepted.
You are a fucking idiot, going on what you are saying they can track light bulbs and that is absolute bullshit. I take it you know nothing about electronics because that is the impression im getting
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  #36  
Old 09-16-2010, 09:45 AM
themessenger themessenger is offline
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Default Re: Tor is not secure

Anything electronic can be intercepted.

If you put a lightbulb in a box that allows no light to escape, and switch it on from a power source contained within that box, unless that box is completely able to absorb all EM radiation, it can be determined when the lightbulb is off or on, even if the light cannot be seen, and the powersource is contained within the box and is not external.

You have to think more.
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  #37  
Old 09-16-2010, 09:47 AM
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Snoopy Snoopy is offline
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Default Re: Tor is not secure

Why do you all let yourselves get trolled this hard? Can the trolling be any moar obvious?

Tor's security is irrelevant. Tor is slow as fuck.
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  #38  
Old 09-16-2010, 10:07 AM
Dr. Phail Dr. Phail is offline
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Default Re: Tor is not secure

Quote:
Originally Posted by themessenger View Post
Anything electronic can be intercepted.

If you put a lightbulb in a box that allows no light to escape, and switch it on from a power source contained within that box, unless that box is completely able to absorb all EM radiation, it can be determined when the lightbulb is off or on, even if the light cannot be seen, and the powersource is contained within the box and is not external.

You have to think more.
and i suppose you have a degree in internet science allowing you to know everything?

you would have to be within a fraction of an inch to detect the magnetic field from the cabling which yes can be measured but intercepting at a distance is impractical as the field will dissipate completely within an inch from any cabling and you can hide light with a solid object so again you have been proven wrong
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  #39  
Old 09-16-2010, 10:13 AM
Insomaniacal Insomaniacal is offline
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Default Re: Tor is not secure

There's been white-papers written about how to spy on TOR users, but it involves rouge exit nodes, and that's so far the only way. Of course, mis-configuring TOR also can also cause gaps.

Regardless, this guy is a troll. He should go back to 4chan, report that he failed, and then "an hero".
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  #40  
Old 09-16-2010, 03:11 PM
Amie Amie is offline
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Default Re: Tor is not secure

I honestly don't think this guy is trolling. He sounds dumb enough to actually believe what he's saying.
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