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Old 10-03-2010, 04:36 AM
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Exclamation Increasing Levels of Neurotransmitters

Recall in the last days of BLTC, JoePedo's getting high naturally thread? Well, the general consensus is that the method would not produce drug-like euphoria through increased dopamine production. That's fine, we were expecting too much.

However, for those of us on stimulant binges who go days without eating (either completely, or maybe having a single slice of pizza for two days), you gotta have realized that your body, without the proper building blocks, cannot produce the neurotransmitters that allow the drugs to function in the way you'd like.

I'm on a binge now; doing some pretty heavy overhauls of three different apartments (two to get back our deposits, and one that will be the new main living place). My adderall doses, as well as the doses of the nightly sedatives (temazepam, alcohol, and herbal blends), are skyrocketing faster than tolerance can account for; even with massively increased doses, it's not as good.

I recall that several users, including myself, attempted to save parts of the two threads by JoePedo detailing his methods for maximizing dopamine production. Are any of you here? Do you still have any of that saved?

But, let's take it a step further. I want to actually learn here, rather than teach and act as a janitor - I haven't been doing much of that since I was modded in March. Let this thread be about synthesis and maximizing levels of the fun neurotransmitters. I will conduct some research at some point, but am currently fighting an amp comedown/starvation with benzos, liquor and blend, so am incapable. Even at my best, I can't hold a candle to some of our truly knowledgeable users (if any of them remain here).

So, let's see what we can accomplish together. Let's show everyone that this isn't just a pale reflection of BLTC, and that we can still learn and do amazing things. My goals for this thread are to:

1) Recapture as much of JoePedo's original threads and responses as possible. If any of you have this saved, please let me know.
2) Discuss the other important neurotransmitters, and how to maximize their production via vitamins, minerals, supplements, and the basics - proteins, lipids, and carbohydrates.

I'll let you know right now: anything that isn't helpful and directly on topic, or a question looking for clarification about something that had been said...will be purged immediately, and further posts by those users will not be permitted in this thread (enforced by consequences I may not be allowed to impose...but I shall).

Here, we will make a stand. This thread shall be stickied until I say otherwise. If it fails, I may not wish to continue as mod, and this place can fall to shambles or continue as it is (best case scenario).

TL;DR: This thread will discuss maximizing production of the fun neurotransmitters, hopefully referencing JoePedo's dopamine threads of totse. This thread will be moderated more strictly than any other during my time here, as I need to know we still have "it." Post only knowledge and intelligent questions. The penalties for doing otherwise will be severe beyond what is allowed.

mike
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Old 10-03-2010, 05:16 AM
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Default Re: IMPORTANT THREAD: Increasing Levels of Neurotransmitters. Show Them we Still Have

If you haven't already you should check the totse archives. I would but I can't copy paste on this thing. (itouch)
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Old 10-03-2010, 07:49 AM
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Thumbs Up Re: IMPORTANT THREAD: Increasing Levels of Neurotransmitters. Show Them we Still Have

My knowledge is incomplete, nobody can applicably understands the pathways of neurochemistry... otherwise the drug companies would be cakeing it now.

Here is my suggestion:

Go for the NMDA receptor antagonist, magnesium or very low dose DXM to slow the excito-toxicity. Check out Memantine.
Keep your nutrients and the Manganese, Chromium, Zinc maybe even Selenium intakes leveled by a multi vitamin or something.

Dont forget to keep up choline intake. Egg yolk is a great source, or you could get some GPC.
Prolonged L-phenylalanine intake, i think, does not have to exceed ~200 mg per day, try to space out the doses into small frequent amounts.
Best, although probably unlikely, bet would be to get your hands on some Beta-Dopamine dehydroxylase inhibitors.... I would personally would love to experiment with them.

Remember a lengthy period of sobriety is inevitable if you want to even get somewhat normal. Sleep, exercise, and good nutrition cant be replaced for long, without serious consequences.

After you are done with your binge... you may want to consider going on something like Neurotonin to take the edge off as you sober up for a while.

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Old 10-03-2010, 09:03 AM
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Default Re: IMPORTANT THREAD: Increasing Levels of Neurotransmitters. Show Them we Still Have

Quote:
Originally Posted by w1zard View Post
If you haven't already you should check the totse archives. I would but I can't copy paste on this thing. (itouch)
Every thread I've ever clicked in the BLTC archives doesn't work.

I think instead of moderating this thread, I'll ignore zoklet for a few days, and see what's here when I come back. Make me proud.

Aerogone, good post, hopefully others will add to it.

mike
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Old 10-03-2010, 09:06 AM
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Default Re: IMPORTANT THREAD: Increasing Levels of Neurotransmitters. Show Them we Still Have

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ergoloid

I'll post more, later. I'm having weird audio hallucinations.
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Old 10-03-2010, 05:43 PM
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Default Re: IMPORTANT THREAD: Increasing Levels of Neurotransmitters. Show Them we Still Have

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerogone View Post
Go for the NMDA receptor antagonists like magnesium or very low dose DXM to slow the rise.
Keep your nutrients and the Manganese, Chromium, Zinc maybe even Selenium intakes leveled by a multi vitamin or something.
fix't. This is of critical importance as neurotransmitters can be replaced, but cell death is forever. A few pointers here is that magnesium and zinc are great. I haven't tried chromium, and I'm pretty sure selenium isn't an NMDA antagonist, so I can't speak for those two. Also, low dose DXM is only practical if you using for fun. If you need to get stuff done, low dose DXM will cloud you up too much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerogone View Post
Dont forget to keep up choline intake. Egg yolk is a great source, or you could get some GPC.
Not only is egg protein an excellent source of choline, it's also loaded with phenylalanine and tryptophan.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerogone View Post
Prolonged L-phenylalanine intake, i think, does not have to exceed ~2000 mg per day, try to space out the doses into small frequent amounts.
fix't. Also, get niacin, folic acid, and iron. Maybe an AChEI. You'll want to take 200-300% iron daily, ~1000% niacin (not at all once, though), and maybe 500% folic acid. Iron and the B-group vitamins are a critical part of converting DLPA to DOPA. Stay away from B6, though, as it depletes reserves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerogone View Post
Best, although probably unlikely, bet would be to get your hands on some Dopamine-Beta-hydroxylase inhibitors.... I would personally would love to experiment with them.
fix't. On this note, St John's Wart doesn't work effectively as a DBH inhibitor simply because it has too much other activity (5-HT stuff).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerogone View Post
Remember a lengthy period of sobriety is inevitable if you want to even get somewhat normal. Sleep, exercise, and good nutrition cant be replaced for long, without serious consequences.
Well, either lengthy sobriety or liberal diph use.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerogone View Post
After you are done with your binge... you may want to consider going on something like Neurotonin to take the edge off as you sober up for a while.
Well, if you're doing your job right, you won't have a crash.
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Old 10-03-2010, 07:31 PM
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Default Re: IMPORTANT THREAD: Increasing Levels of Neurotransmitters. Show Them we Still Have

i remember those threads....

something about a green potato?
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Old 10-04-2010, 12:33 AM
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Default Re: IMPORTANT THREAD: Increasing Levels of Neurotransmitters. Show Them we Still Have

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Originally Posted by RIPtotse View Post
i remember those threads....

something about a green potato?
Yup. Some chemical in green potatoes acts might act as an AChEI. IMO, you're better off just buying some huperzine on ebay.
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Old 10-04-2010, 12:55 AM
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Thumbs Up Re: IMPORTANT THREAD: Increasing Levels of Neurotransmitters. Show Them we Still Have

Here's something I came up with many months ago after some research...I cant remember all the pharmacology but I do remember it seeming promising at the time. If you do a few minutes of research on the chemicals I'm sure you will see why.

Dopamine Boost (Untested)

-Pre-dose with 1g of Quercetin
-500mg L-Dopa taken with ~2g Mannitol, and a cup of well-steeped Green Tea.

Before all this it might be a good idea to take an amino acid complex and drink a green smoothie with some Spirulina or Hemp nuts for minerals n such...to get all the building blocks in place.

I know I laid out JP's L-Phen cocktail, along with some independent research and helpful posts that followed...Ill try to find it.


Edit: Awwwwww Shiett.. I found it

Quote:
Originally Posted by OP
Natural Speed-Substitute
250 pounds:
empty stomach
1 gram dl-phenylalanine
600 mg l-tyro
600 mg-chocamine
900 mg-gaba
multivitamin for the niacin and folic acid and other metals
fucking great


DL-Phenylalanine Utilization
http://www.totse.com/community/showp...21&postcount=2
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

-->
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoePedo
Oh hell yes...

...okay, sure, the l-phenylalanine has profound value for the reasons you describe... but the d-phenylalanine is an endorphin breakdown inhibitor. Good stuff!!

Anyways... seeing as it are racemate, try dropping a gram with 200mg caffiene (pde inhibitor, jams the serine 40 of tyrosine hydroxylase in the "on" position), ~50mg iron (required reagent of TyH), 100mg niacin (regenerates tetrahydrobiopterin, the other required reagent of TyH), about 800ug of folic acid (rate-limiting factor in THB synthesis), a spot of magnesium (NMDA agonist neuroprotectant of the nucleus accumbens, + upregulator of dopamine production), a green potato (AchE inhibitor, acetylcholine upregulates expression of TyH), and, as needed, a little St. John's Wort (hypericin-spectrum anthroquinones serve as a dopamine beta-hydroxylase inhibitor, reducing cannabalization of dopamine for adrenal production... careful, you CAN overdo it)...

...your first time is gonna be a blast. 'n the afterglow will last about a week...

edit : teh refs - 'cause it's easier to bang out the message and add the footnotes later...

cAMP dependence of maximal activation :
http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/reprint/00186.2003v1.pdf

cAMP analogs is fine, too.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...4b29fe12061982

cAMP is neccesary to activate mutant T3H, too...
http://www.jbc.org/cgi/content/abstract/267/36/25754

Does caffiene increase cAMP? Yes!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffeine
http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retri...88440900001946
http://coffeefaq.com/site/node/20

Does iron bind to T3H? Yes!
http://metallo.scripps.edu/promise/AAAOH.html
http://www.proteinscience.org/cgi/co...ract/4/10/2082
http://www.jbc.org/cgi/content/abstract/271/40/24395

Is it neccesary for the activity of T3H? Yes!
http://hmg.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/re...10/17/1853.pdf
http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/62...scription.html
http://home.uchicago.edu/~syin/Kang.doc
http://www.springerlink.com/index/U01X6018533126P0.pdf


Is tetrahydrobiopterin a reagent of T3H? Yes!
http://content.febsjournal.org/cgi/c...full/262/3/840
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en... dexed=google
http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/refs/214/4523/919
http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi...nnals.1296.047
http://content.febsjournal.org/cgi/c...full/262/3/840
http://www.neuro.wustl.edu/NEUROMUSC...b/catechol.htm
http://books.google.com/books?id=9JP...xXTjU9opIr6-ZI

Does niacin increase dopamine production by regenerating tetrahydrobiopterin? Yes!
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en... dexed=google
http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi...1972.tb01947.x
http://jb.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/99/3/645.pdf
http://books.google.com/books?id=vT9...Ig7wiJYlXQ3_RM

Is folic acid required for the synthesis of tetrahydrobiopterin? Yes!
http://www.springerlink.com/index/82042375N853L14K.pdf
http://www.ingentaconnect.com/conten...00003/art00007
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...t=AbstractPlus


Does acetylcholine receptor activation upregulate t3h expression and dopamine production? Yes!
http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/cgi/reprint/303/3/896.pdf
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...i?artid=397092
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...?artid=1280728


Crap... I think that's every assertion I made. If I missed something, feel free to ask me to dig up dox....
After some experimentation and research I settled on this procedure, which I recorded in Wordpad..

Quote:
Shroom's Streamlined Cocktail Recipe:

Dopamine Cocktail

Ingredients:

-350mg Magnesium
-7 Tomato Leaves
-500mg L-Phenylalanine
-200mg Caffeine
-65mg Iron
-125mg Nicotinic Acid (Niacin)
-800ug Folic Acid (Folate)
-3 Grams Vitamin C


Procedure:

T- 0:15 350mg Magnesium dissolved sublingually

T- 0:05 2-3 Tomato Leaves chewed, held sublingually, and swallowed

T+ 0:00 Crushed and parachuted:

500mg-1g L-Phenylalanine
200mg Caffeine
65mg Iron
125mg Nicotinic Acid (Niacin)
800ug Folic Acid (Folate)
350mg Magnesium

T+ 0:15 1 Tomato Leaf chewed and swallowed
1 Gram Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C)

T+ 0:30 1 Tomato Leaf chewed and swallowed

T+ 0:45 1 Tomato Leaf chewed and swallowed

T+ 1:00 1 Tomato Leaf chewed and swallowed
1 Gram Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C)

T+ 1:30 1 Gram Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C)

T+ 2:30 1 Gram Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C)

I got pretty fucking good results with experimenting the above, a few times I nailed it really good, felt like a floaty combination of Adderall and MDMA, but lets empathetic properties, more euphoric contentment and purpose.


Let the experimentation begin!!!!
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Last edited by i<3Shrooms; 10-04-2010 at 01:34 AM. Reason: yes!! :D
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Old 10-04-2010, 01:44 AM
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Default Re: IMPORTANT THREAD: Increasing Levels of Neurotransmitters. Show Them we Still Have

Quote:
Originally Posted by i<3Shrooms View Post
Here's something I came up with many months ago after some research...I cant remember all the pharmacology but I do remember it seeming promising at the time. If you do a few minutes of research on the chemicals I'm sure you will see why.

Dopamine Boost (Untested)

-Pre-dose with 1g of Quercetin
-500mg L-Dopa taken with ~2g Mannitol, and a cup of well-steeped Green Tea.
I think you might get better results when you:

Replace the green tea with 250mg of caffeine
Add a DOPA decarboxylase inhibitor like carbidopa to prevent hyperdopaminergia in the peripheral nervous system.
And finally, because some studies have shown a possibility of serotonin depletion while taking L-dopa i suggest you add 500mg of 5-htp into the equation.

It would also help to take a vitamin and mineral combo with it.
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Old 10-04-2010, 03:30 AM
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Default Re: IMPORTANT THREAD: Increasing Levels of Neurotransmitters. Show Them we Still Have

Can anybody recommend a good starting point for learning about neurotransmitters? Other than this thread of course...I follow what is going on, but am interested to learn more.
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Old 10-04-2010, 03:39 AM
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Default Re: IMPORTANT THREAD: Increasing Levels of Neurotransmitters. Show Them we Still Have

many people say you can get higher without drugs than with them, I personally think that these people are misinformed.
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Old 10-04-2010, 06:41 AM
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Default Re: IMPORTANT THREAD: Increasing Levels of Neurotransmitters. Show Them we Still Have

Was it 5-htp you are supposed to preload with for a couple days?
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Old 10-04-2010, 06:47 AM
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Mad Re: IMPORTANT THREAD: Increasing Levels of Neurotransmitters. Show Them we Still Have

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerogone View Post
My knowledge is incomplete, nobody can applicably understands the pathways of neurochemistry...
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Old 10-04-2010, 11:09 AM
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Exclamation Re: IMPORTANT THREAD: Increasing Levels of Neurotransmitters. Show Them we Still Have

Quote:
Originally Posted by w1zard View Post
Was it 5-htp you are supposed to preload with for a couple days?
Yeah, but I'm not really sure that it does much. I experimented with taking it everyday for a while and at the time I thought it had an effect, but after doing more research I think I may have been mistaken.

Also, I recall reading the specific statement that 5-htp requires vitamin B1 to undergo the kinda of metabolism required. However I think it might have been shown that even after including B1, 5-htp still wasn't capable of doing shit. Much like Shulgin's failed attempts with melatonin.

Ah, according to this, it was vitamin B6, not B1.

Quote:
Q: Does vitamin B6 cause 5-HTP to rapidly convert into serotonin before it even reaches the brain? Does this mean you don't get an increase of brain serotonin?

A: No, actually quite the opposite. In one notable study on rats, vitamin B6 deficiency was deliberately induced. It was discovered that very little serotonin was produced in the rat brain when deficient in B6.4

In other experiments with monkeys and rats, the presence of ample amounts of B6 - even to the point of "moderate excess" - increased production of serotonin (in the brain) from 5-HTP by up to 60%.5,6 Once again, it is clear that 5-HTP raises brain serotonin levels - with or without carbidopa or benserazide, and with or without vitamin B6. But the evidence indicates that it's better to take 5-HTP without carbidopa or benserazide and with vitamin B6.7
I'd also like to say that when studying things like this, ask as many questions and don't assume too much because things work in very weird ways. For instance, did you know that 80% of yr serotonin is in yr fucking gut? Check this out, yo:

http://pn.psychiatryonline.org/content/36/14/16.full
http://www.medpagetoday.com/Endocrin...oporosis/18346

So yeah, remember that while you may be trying to do one thing, you may end up having some completely unexpected result. Therefore I urge you to research as much as humanly possible before deciding to consume such and such with the intentions of nootropy. I don't think any of us are doctors, although a few of us are over-qualified for such a horrendous job, anyway. I know I've schooled a few doctors in my time.

To contribute to the general thread more (great idea mike, although I think having "important thread" in all caps is arrogant and juvenile - it's not really that important, it's just a good idea), there is a nootropic that when taken with a source of choline (personally I use raw eggs and I'll explain why later) increases your choline levels by something like 80%...at least according to studies done on rats. This nootropic is the original cognitive enhancer, Piracetam.

Piracetam - Staple of Nootropics

Piracetam has been around for a while and has been safely used on humans for years, has a ridiculously high lethal dosage, and has very few unwanted side effects, generally. This original nootropic was first used in treatment of memory impairment, Alzheimer's, and other cognitive decline in the elderly as most nootropics have been at some time. However there are many kinds of people that use it, and recreational drug users in particular can definitely find a use in it, which is several-fold. This is especially true if one has used drugs recklessly for many years and now suffers some sort of cognitive impairment, general burnout, malaise, or whatever.

First, about choline. It's thought that part of the nootropic action of piracetam is through raising levels of choline:

Profound effects of combining choline and piracetam on memory enhancement and cholinergic function in aged rats

Quote:
In an attempt to gain some insight into possible approaches to reducing age-related memory disturbances, aged Fischer 344 rats were administered either vehicle, choline, piracetam or a combination of choline or piracetam. Animals in each group were tested behaviorally for retention of a one trial passive avoidance task, and biochemically to determine changes in choline and acetylcholine levels in hippocampus, cortex and striatum. Previous research has shown that rats of this strain suffer severe age-related deficits on this passive avoidance task and that memory disturbances are at least partially responsible. Those subjects given only choline (100 mg/kg) did not differ on the behavioral task from control animals administered vehicle. Rats given piracetam (100 mg/kg) performed slightly better than control rats (p<0.05), but rats given the piracetam/choline combination (100 mg/kg of each) exhibited retention scores several times better than those given piracetam alone. In a second study, it was shown that twice the dose of piracetam (200 mg/kg) or choline (200 mg/kg) alone, still did not enhance retention nearly as well as when piracetam and choline (100 mg/kg of each) were administered together. Further, repeated administration (1 week) of the piracetam/choline combination was superior to acute injections. Regional determinations of choline and acetylcholine revealed interesting differences between treatments and brain area. Although choline administration raised choline content about 50% in striatum and cortex, changes in acetylcholine levels were much more subtle (only 6–10%). No significant changes following choline administration were observed in the hippocampus. However, piracetam alone markedly increased choline content in hippocampus (88%) and tended to decrease acetylcholine levels (19%). No measurable changes in striatum or cortex were observed following piracetam administration. The combination of choline and piracetam did not potentiate the effects seen with either drug alone, and in certain cases the effects were much less pronounced under the drug combination. These data were discussed as they relate to possible effects of choline and piracetam on cholinergic transmission and other neuronal function, and how these effects may reduce specific memory disturbances in aged subjects. The results of these studies demonstrate that the effects of combining choline and piracetam are quite different than those obtained with either drug alone and support the notion that in order to achieve substantial efficacy in aged subjects it may be necessary to reduce multiple, interactive neurochemical dysfunctions in the brain, or affect activity in more than one parameter of a deficient metabolic pathway.
While this study is ultimately not entirely conclusive about the best route of action to take or about the mystery surrounding the differences in the combination vs either one alone, it is most likely best for drug users that fear cognitive impairment to take a source of choline along with piracetam. Choline has an important function in neurotransmission, as it is synthesized into acetylcholine - although apparently piracetam on its own will decrease acetylcholine levels while raising choline. That is according to the study above as well as this one, Piracetam diminishes hippocampal acetylcholine levels in rats.

Like I said earlier, things are much more confusing and intricate than a simple, "this is good, make brain spew happy juice" and a "this is bad, this make happy juice dry up, brain goes dry." Therefore I encourage you to supplement with taking both choline, piracetam, and the combination thereof until you see what works...and what works under what conditions. Piracetam is a fairly versatile chemical in that it's not entirely clear cut when it is helping and when it doesn't do anything. At no time will taking piracetam really harm you - except possibly through a combined effort at inducing psychosis when mixed with certain drugs (more on that later). Increasing the levels of choline ingested through diet instead of supplement is to be preferred, although that is at least half opinion.

That isn't all that piracetam has stuck up its sleeve, though. It's also believed that piracetam is able to increase cross-talk between the hemispheres of the brain through some mechanism of action involving the corpus callosum. It is the half-educated opinion of some that this is what is responsible for piracetam reportedly and in my experience enhancing creativity, libido, imagination, and other cognitive benefits that might be arising from something other than choligenic action.

Piracetam-induced facilitation of interhemispheric transfer of visual information in rats.

Quote:
The effect of Piracetam (UCB 6215, 2-pyrrolidoneacetamide) on learning mediated by transcommissural information flow was studied in hooded rats. Acquisition of monocular pattern discrimination was faster in drug-treated rats (100 mg/kg, 30 min before training) than in untreated controls. Subsequent relearning with one hemisphere functionally eliminated by cortical spreading depression showed that the strength of the primary engram formed under Piracetam in the hemisphere contralateral to the trained eye remained unaffected but that the secondary trace (in the ipsilateral hemisphere) was considerably improved and almost equalled the primary one (savings increased from 20-30% to 50-60%). Learning with uncrossed optic fibers was unaffected by the drug. Interhemispheric transfer of lateralized visual engrams acquired during functional hemidecortication was facilitated by Piracetam administration preceding the five transfer trials performed with the untrained eye open (imperative transfer). Piracetam was ineffective when the trained eye was open during transfer trials (facultative transfer). After a visual engram had been lateralized by 5 days of monocular overtraining, Piracetam facilitated formation of the secondary engram induced by 3 interocular transfer trials. It is concluded that Piracetam enhances transcommissural encoding mechanisms activated in the initial stage of monocular learning and in some forms of interhemispheric transfer, but does not affect the transcommissural readout. This effect is interpreted as a special case of the Piracetam-induced facilitation of the phylogenetically old mechanisms of redundant information storage which improve liminal or subnormal learning.
Piracetam also reportedly restores membrane fluidity, which might have something to do with the enhancement of cross-talk between the membranes and it's effect on learning in general. In addition to increasing membrane fluidity & all that, it is also a neuroprotectant and can revitalize a brain that might be suffering from methamphetamine induced cerebral ischemia. Generally this is only going to really be a problem when someone suffers a stroke, and at that point you're kinda too fucked to be reading my advice anyway. But meth can still fuck with you, so whatever you can do to offset its cerebral toxicity is great. For an example of the damage meffz can cause (and I am spun right now mind you), check this:

Quote:
The effect of single and chronic methamphetamine (MAP) administration on ischemia-induced hyperactivity was investigated and the mechanism of ischemia-induced hyperactivity was discussed. Ischemia-induced hyperactivity was recognized 3 h after ischemia. However, ischemia-induced hyperactivity at 1 day after ischemia was inhibited when MAP, in a dose of 10 mg/kg, was administered for 7 days and withdrawn for 7 days. It was reported that MAP treatment caused an irreversible decrease in the number of dopamine (DA) uptake sites. In addition to this, monoamine oxidase and the uptake of DA into the nerve terminals are disturbed by cerebral ischemia. Therefore, a lot of DA release happened during and immediately after ischemia, and a marked down-regulation of DA receptor occurred 24 h after ischemia in MAP-injected group. It is conceivable that the DA receptor, especially the presynaptic DA uptake site, is related to the occurrence of ischemia-induced hyperactivity. Further studies appear to be necessary to clarify acceptor susceptibility when neurotransmitters are normalized after transient ischemia.
Chronic methamphetamine administration inhibits cerebral ischemia-induced hyperactivity in Mongolian gerbils.

The topic of cerebral ischemia is an interesting one, because it is pretty relevant to users of almost all stimulants. I'm going to go off the piracetam topic for a moment so forgive me while I touch lightly on this topic.

Ischemia occurs because of three reasons generally, vasoconstriction, thrombosis, and embolism. A short summary of each, courtesy of wikipedia:

Quote:
Vasoconstriction is the narrowing of the blood vessels resulting from contraction of the muscular wall of the vessels, particularly the large arteries, small arterioles and veins. The process is the opposite of vasodilation, the widening of blood vessels...When blood vessels constrict, the flow of blood is restricted or decreased, thus, retaining body heat or increasing vascular resistance. Cutaneously, this makes the skin turn paler because less blood reaches the surface, preventing the radiation of heat. On a larger level, vasoconstriction is one mechanism by which the body regulates and maintains mean arterial pressure.

Generalized vasoconstriction usually results in an increase in systemic blood pressure, but it may also occur in specific tissues causing a localized reduction in blood flow. The extent of vasoconstriction may be slight or severe depending on the substance or circumstance. Many vasoconstrictors also cause pupil dilation. Medications that cause vasoconstriction include antihistamines, decongestants and stimulants used to treat ADHD.

Vasoconstriction is a procedure of the body that avoids orthostatic hypotension. It is a part of a body negative feed back loop in which the body tries to restore homeostasis.

For example, vasoconstriction is a hypothermic preventative in which the blood vessels constrict and blood must move at a higher pressure to actively avoid a hypoxic reaction. ATP is used as a form of energy to increase this pressure to heat the body. Once homeostasis is restored the blood pressure and ATP production regulates.

Vasoconstriction also occurs in superficial blood vessels of warm-blooded animals when their ambient environment is cold; this process diverts the flow of heated blood to the center of the animal, preventing the loss of heat.
As the above entry was more relevant to the current discussion, I will only briefly quote wiki on the other two causes of ischemia.

Quote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thrombosisis the formation of a blood clot inside a blood vessel, obstructing the flow of blood through the circulatory system. When a blood vessel is injured, the body uses platelets and fibrin to form a blood clot to prevent blood loss. Alternatively, even when a blood vessel is not injured, blood clots may form in the body if the proper conditions present themselves. If the clotting is too severe and the clot breaks free, the traveling clot is now know as an embolus.
Quote:
In medicine, an embolism (plural embolisms) occurs when an embolus (the embolus, plural emboli) migrates from one part of the body (through circulation) and causes a blockage (occlusion) of a blood vessel in another part of the body. An embolus is an object that travels through the bloodstream, lodges in a blood vessel and blocks it. The term was coined in 1848 by Rudolph Carl Virchow. This is in contrast with a thrombus, or clot, which forms at the blockage point within a blood vessel and is not carried from somewhere else. However, if a thrombus breaks loose from its location and travels to another location, it is then said to be an embolus and having caused an embolism.
Back on to the general side-tracked topic of ischemia: ischemia is defined as a lack of blood supply to an organ, as compared to the more general term hypoxia, which is a lack of oxygen. When the adequate amount of blood isn't able to flow to the organs that are needed, because of either vasoconstriction or thrombosis/embolism, then tissues become damaged due to the piling up of metabolic waste, like a multiple car crash or an writing orgy of meth freaks. This basically means that when you ingest stimulants, especially chronically, you are cutting off the maximum amount of blood available to such important things as your brain, lungs, extremities, etc. Because stimulants are vasoconstrictors, sometimes they are used in treating various hypotension disorders, as vasoconstriction naturally occurs in the body so that you avoid orthostatic hypotension, which I get a lot. If you didn't click the link before and don't know what orthostatic hypotension is, then ask yourself if any of this seems familiar:

Quote:
Symptoms, which generally occur after sudden standing or stretching (after standing), include dizziness, euphoria, bodily dissociation, distortions in hearing, lightheadedness, nausea, headache, blurred or dimmed vision (possibly to the point of momentary blindness), generalized (or extremity) numbness/tingling and fainting, coat hanger pain (pain centered in the neck and shoulders), and in rare, extreme cases, vasovagal syncope. They are consequences of insufficient blood pressure and cerebral perfusion (blood supply). Occasionally, there may be a feeling of warmth in the head and shoulders for a few seconds after the dizziness subsides.
That shit can be pretty debilitating and it's easy to see why your body would react against being put into such a state of weakness. In an attempt to stop you from blacking out and losing the supply of oxygen to yr brain, your body reverses the low-blood pressure trend and introduces a high-blood pressure alternative. As a fight or flight mechanism of action it is perfect: it will allow young caveman to fly from the hungry beast that creeps up on him while sitting down, instead of just blacking out & giving up & letting the beast have lunch. However, when this consistently happens because of exogenous (a much better term to use than synthetic or artificial, in this kind of talk) stimulation, especially because of drugs, there are many risks one takes:

Quote:
Persistent hypertension is one of the risk factors for stroke, myocardial infarction, heart failure and arterial aneurysm, and is a leading cause of chronic kidney failure. Moderate elevation of arterial blood pressure leads to shortened life expectancy. Dietary and lifestyle changes can improve blood pressure control and decrease the risk of associated health complications, although drug treatment may prove necessary in patients for whom lifestyle changes prove ineffective or insufficient.
So what can one do to prevent this from happening? Well first of all the absolute best answer that there is happens to be your own to feet: start walking for several miles (6-12 miles is ideal) a day, everyday if you can, and especially get some walking in if you're high on stimulants. Walking for a long time will improve blood flow, help the brain in its synthesis of dopamine from phenylalanine (I can not find the source for this claim but from my memory, walking & exercise in general was supposedly necessary for the proper synthesis of endogenous amphetamine), and basically help regulate the body closer to homeostasis. Doing this will help you not only avoid brain damage & cognitive impairment, but it should also help you get much higher from the drugs you do. You're much more likely to be able to eat & fall asleep after a meth binge if you managed to sneak in a several hour hike.

There are, however, apparently ways that one can not only prevent such brain damage but actually reverse it. Piracetam may be one of these ways, and Xenon(this would normally link to my site with the Xenon article but my website has not been paid for and so is down. if you want to paypal me or help me with hosting let me know) has been known to do this for a while.

While there is much more to talk about, I am high as a kite on meth right now and need to take some of my own advice. I've dehydrated, stoned, and have been sitting around all day so I'm a prime candidate for blacking the fuck out or depriving my brain of proper nutrients. Thusly I'm going to say a few last things about piracetam for now (there will be more to come on all kinds of stuff, though!) and then go take a cold shower for reasons you may be able to deduce from some of my old posts on RiaB (or if not, expect an article that I've been wanting to do for a while), eat several raw eggs, drink a lot of water, smoke a bowl, and then go for a hike.

Piracetam, as I have tried to shown, is safe & beneficial for young, old, and drug users alike, although it helps the most significantly with those that suffer the worst. Therefore if you take piracetam like many transhumanist nootropic enthusiasts do expecting it to take you from average to super smart and don't experience a damn thing then well, don't cry to me. Take much of what is said about intelligence enhancing, memory enhancing, etc, with a hefty dosage of salt (but not too much sodium - ! ) because everyone will respond differently. Personally I have gained enormous benefits from it, and I've been using it for about three years.

It's extremely cheap, it's available on drugstore.com in a 500 gram case for $30. A common dosage is anywhere from 800 mg to 8 grams at once or over the day, some people recommend using an introductory attack dose while others only respond well to lower dosages. Once again, experiment to find that sweet spot.

A NOTE ON PIRACETAM INTERACTIONS:

Piracetam, when mixed with various drugs, produces interesting effects. It most certainly increases the intensity of psychedelics and can give you very out-there trips, and although everyone responds differently most people agree that it potentiates psychedelics. There are many drugs that it interacts with, so here is a short list I've compiled myself, based on what I know personally. Don't take what I say as the word of god...

Piracetam potentiates these recreational drugs:

MDxx (although I have not tested every various related chemical, piracetam greatly increases ecstasy's euphoria, notably increases hallucinations (CEV & OEV), as well as having a positive effect on the sexual side of the whole experience - and as a male I personally find it easier to get in touch with my feminine & weirdly other side. expect increased insomnia, though)
LSD/LSA (LSD is greatly potentiated by piracetam, except the piracetam to emphasize the clean & mental high that LSD can bring, especially if ergoloid is also brought into the mix; LSA is also potentiated but I've noticed that it is not quite as noticeable as with LSD, your hallucinations will definitely be more vivid & distinct though)
Mushrooms (emphasizes, like MDxx, the feminine aspect & allows great connection, when piracetam is mixed with mushrooms it feels like your brain is introducing all kinds of new connections while you connect with the universe, OEVs will most likely be energy-based and not overwhelming but full of inner meaning, while CEVs should transport you to another universe)
2c-x (I've only mixed piracetam with 2c-b and it makes it speedier, more euphoric, as well enhancing visuals, although in general piracetam doesn't seem to increase other bodily sense and acts primarily in its memory enhancing effect through some visual component; in addition I find trips are much easier to recall & integrate to life if piracetam is used)
Amphetamine (apparently this combination might induce cytotoxicity although I have not researched it conclusively. there are several aspects of this I want to look into but for the most part piracetam potentiates all stimulants)
Cocaine (I'm not much of a coke head but I think piracetam affects it in a similar manner to speed)
Methylphenidate (your ritalin will probably be a bit stronger but piracetam isn't going to turn your shitty ritalin experience into anything amazing)
Ketamine (both times I tried ketamine I'm fairly sure I was on piracetam, and I got very high off of a relatively small amount both times so my gut guess is that it does indeed help but piracetam & how it relates to glutamate and NMDA antagonists should be looked into, too)
Caffeine (a good coffee buzz when combined with piracetam results in a low to mid grade amphetamine buzz, with plenty off mania & irritation)
Nicotine (because of its effects on choline, I think that being on piracetam greatly potentiates nicotines effect and you may find yourself getting nicotine rushes even if you chain smoke; apparently it is also helpful in stopping smoking and is probably why I can smoke as much as I want socially
and rarely crave it in private)
Alcohol (except to get really sedated, possibly more irritable as well as more sexual although with alcohol your judgement is so clouded it can be hard to tell, although piracetam definitely has a general enhancement effect on alcohol. there was something specific about this mix I was going to touch on but I forgot)
Nutmeg (this combination is pretty fucking sweet, especially in a cocktail involving any of the above. part of nutmeg's mechanism of action is anticholinergic iirc while also having effects similar to more classic psychedelics. it is my opinion that piracetam makes nutmeg more stimulating and can offset some of the heavy sedation that comes with it, while enhancing visuals, thought process, and especially libido. nutmeg itself is a fairly decent nootropic, and the combination feels like a fairly calm MDMA roll but with a mindset much more similar to LSD...music can also be greatly enhanced, which happens on piracetam occasionally, regardless of it being combined)

Piracetam offsets the effects of:

Scopolamine/datura (I made several posts about this before, at a later date I copy pasta some info here, but basically piracetam greatly reduces the amnesia induced by datura and can make datura actually worth trying in low dosages, responsibly)
Memory loss, brain aging, and cognitive impairment (its main use)

Piracetam combined with other nootropics:

Hydergeine- another nootopic which deserves a write up of its own, it was invented by Hofmann
himself and combined with piracetam it has a synergistic effect that has been reported by many. I don't think there has been much research into why this happens but the synergy is fucking amazing and can be a very powerful, double-edged sword. On the one hand this combo will definitely help you with learning & memory, as well as increase motivation, energy, creativity, and in general revitalizes your brain and overall well being like no other. As a very interesting side note, lucid dreaming is very greatly enhanced by this combination as are all psychic & paranormal powers. Whenever I get the chance to I order hydergeine, although its price makes it fairly prohibitive compared to inexpensive piracetam. Using piracetam means you can use much less hydergeine and still get double the effects you'd get using either on their own. "Double" is a general term here and not an exact medical term, lol. When these two are mixed with psychedelics all bets are off because you will trip way harder then you've ever tripped. I think that at some point every acid head has to try Hofmann's Special: ergoloid and LSD, especially in re: piracetam combination. I've tried the three of them together twice before, and each time were universe-shatteringly epic acid trips. The first time was the most amazing and was a very positive experience that has influenced me forever. The other trip also involved some salvia which made an already very intense experience into a mockery of everything we know as reality as every causal law was bent, broken, or burnt up in the hells of the abyss where I met Satan and learned my way through the very bottom of the Kabbalah's tree of Life.
Bromocriptine - piracetam also works well with this, although not nearly to the degree that hydergeine and piracetam do. all three of them together is a sure fire recipe for inducing your own style of manic genius, if the conditions are ripe (i.e.; you have that sort of passion and are capable of learning). the only downside to bromocriptine really is that it always clogs my sinuses.
provigil - this combination is very amphetamine like, although with caffeine like jitters. if you stay up for a while and experience sleep deprivation hallucinations from provigil (especially if you abuse it), the piracetam can cause some pretty intense CEV/OEV hallucinations that are very different from classic hallucinations.
DLPA - enhances the amphetamine feel to DLPA and it can make one feel very "on it", although this combination has a very few times also induced psychedelia which was slightly distracting and seemed to be non-local information that was analogous to my inner state. for instance when I first tried mixing DLPA with a dosage of piracetam (and I think caffeine as well), I was sitting at the computer reading about it when I look up at an unnaturally chaotic red sky, with a 3 dimensional grid like matrix which I have also seen on LSD & mushrooms, although it was of a slightly different nature. this combination can cause some definite anxiety, mania, and the urge to walk around thinking about things.

Alright, I've been working on this post for like two hours straight, right after a meff session so I'm going to stop now and take care of mein needs. Excuse all spelling/grammar mistakes, this is a work in progress. If I got something wrong or if you have something to add please let me know, and don't take everything I say as gospel because not only am I merely a passionate amateur without a full college education on the subject and also am generally very high & prone to making stupid mistakes. All it takes is confusing agonists with antagonists to cause a deep fundamental flaw in whatever theory you might have, resulting in mass confusion and looking like a noob. So research everything for yourself and come to yr own conclusions.

<3 rizzo

Last edited by iMagiNation; 10-04-2010 at 11:11 AM. Reason: there's a lot of stuff I forgot, including why I suggested raw eggs for choline, many drug interactions, and glossed over
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Old 10-04-2010, 11:22 PM
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Default Re: IMPORTANT THREAD: Increasing Levels of Neurotransmitters. Show Them we Still Have

I use the following:

Procite-D for encouraging natural dopamine production

Lentra for GABA receptors

Some supplement/vitamin to regulate and encourage adrenal functioning

Prolent for regulating other neurotransmitters related with sleep cycle

You can find this stuff on here http://www.sanesco.net/products-and-services


I also recommend a multi-vitamin kind of thing. I use Ultranutrients, which you can find here http://www.purecaps.com/itemdy00.asp?t1=uvc3

There are some other things that you should use for digestive absorption, such as digestive enzymes, probiotics, etc.

You can also use melatonin to help regulate your sleep cycle. Its okay to use 6mg per night.

Generally, the goal is to regulate your natural neurotransmitter production levels, namely the following: dopamine, serotonin, epinephrine, norepinephrine, GABA, glutamine. These are the main ones. You can have your levels tested if you want by urine tests through the mail. Sanesco provides such tests I think.

Hope this helps.
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  #17  
Old 10-04-2010, 11:40 PM
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Default Re: IMPORTANT THREAD: Increasing Levels of Neurotransmitters. Show Them we Still Have

I wouldn't recommend the monoamine reuptake inhibitors to maintain neurotransmitter levels, they fuck with you ability to trip on serotonin based psychedelics.
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  #18  
Old 10-05-2010, 03:20 AM
Hydroponichronic Hydroponichronic is offline
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Default Re: IMPORTANT THREAD: Increasing Levels of Neurotransmitters. Show Them we Still Have

Quote:
Originally Posted by iMagiNation View Post
Yeah, but I'm not really sure that it does much. I experimented with taking it everyday for a while and at the time I thought it had an effect, but after doing more research I think I may have been mistaken.

Also, I recall reading the specific statement that 5-htp requires vitamin B1 to undergo the kinda of metabolism required. However I think it might have been shown that even after including B1, 5-htp still wasn't capable of doing shit. Much like Shulgin's failed attempts with melatonin.

Ah, according to this, it was vitamin B6, not B1.



I'd also like to say that when studying things like this, ask as many questions and don't assume too much because things work in very weird ways. For instance, did you know that 80% of yr serotonin is in yr fucking gut? Check this out, yo:

http://pn.psychiatryonline.org/content/36/14/16.full
http://www.medpagetoday.com/Endocrin...oporosis/18346

So yeah, remember that while you may be trying to do one thing, you may end up having some completely unexpected result. Therefore I urge you to research as much as humanly possible before deciding to consume such and such with the intentions of nootropy. I don't think any of us are doctors, although a few of us are over-qualified for such a horrendous job, anyway. I know I've schooled a few doctors in my time.

To contribute to the general thread more (great idea mike, although I think having "important thread" in all caps is arrogant and juvenile - it's not really that important, it's just a good idea), there is a nootropic that when taken with a source of choline (personally I use raw eggs and I'll explain why later) increases your choline levels by something like 80%...at least according to studies done on rats. This nootropic is the original cognitive enhancer, Piracetam.

Piracetam - Staple of Nootropics

Piracetam has been around for a while and has been safely used on humans for years, has a ridiculously high lethal dosage, and has very few unwanted side effects, generally. This original nootropic was first used in treatment of memory impairment, Alzheimer's, and other cognitive decline in the elderly as most nootropics have been at some time. However there are many kinds of people that use it, and recreational drug users in particular can definitely find a use in it, which is several-fold. This is especially true if one has used drugs recklessly for many years and now suffers some sort of cognitive impairment, general burnout, malaise, or whatever.

First, about choline. It's thought that part of the nootropic action of piracetam is through raising levels of choline:

Profound effects of combining choline and piracetam on memory enhancement and cholinergic function in aged rats



While this study is ultimately not entirely conclusive about the best route of action to take or about the mystery surrounding the differences in the combination vs either one alone, it is most likely best for drug users that fear cognitive impairment to take a source of choline along with piracetam. Choline has an important function in neurotransmission, as it is synthesized into acetylcholine - although apparently piracetam on its own will decrease acetylcholine levels while raising choline. That is according to the study above as well as this one, Piracetam diminishes hippocampal acetylcholine levels in rats.

Like I said earlier, things are much more confusing and intricate than a simple, "this is good, make brain spew happy juice" and a "this is bad, this make happy juice dry up, brain goes dry." Therefore I encourage you to supplement with taking both choline, piracetam, and the combination thereof until you see what works...and what works under what conditions. Piracetam is a fairly versatile chemical in that it's not entirely clear cut when it is helping and when it doesn't do anything. At no time will taking piracetam really harm you - except possibly through a combined effort at inducing psychosis when mixed with certain drugs (more on that later). Increasing the levels of choline ingested through diet instead of supplement is to be preferred, although that is at least half opinion.

That isn't all that piracetam has stuck up its sleeve, though. It's also believed that piracetam is able to increase cross-talk between the hemispheres of the brain through some mechanism of action involving the corpus callosum. It is the half-educated opinion of some that this is what is responsible for piracetam reportedly and in my experience enhancing creativity, libido, imagination, and other cognitive benefits that might be arising from something other than choligenic action.

Piracetam-induced facilitation of interhemispheric transfer of visual information in rats.



Piracetam also reportedly restores membrane fluidity, which might have something to do with the enhancement of cross-talk between the membranes and it's effect on learning in general. In addition to increasing membrane fluidity & all that, it is also a neuroprotectant and can revitalize a brain that might be suffering from methamphetamine induced cerebral ischemia. Generally this is only going to really be a problem when someone suffers a stroke, and at that point you're kinda too fucked to be reading my advice anyway. But meth can still fuck with you, so whatever you can do to offset its cerebral toxicity is great. For an example of the damage meffz can cause (and I am spun right now mind you), check this:



Chronic methamphetamine administration inhibits cerebral ischemia-induced hyperactivity in Mongolian gerbils.

The topic of cerebral ischemia is an interesting one, because it is pretty relevant to users of almost all stimulants. I'm going to go off the piracetam topic for a moment so forgive me while I touch lightly on this topic.

Ischemia occurs because of three reasons generally, vasoconstriction, thrombosis, and embolism. A short summary of each, courtesy of wikipedia:



As the above entry was more relevant to the current discussion, I will only briefly quote wiki on the other two causes of ischemia.





Back on to the general side-tracked topic of ischemia: ischemia is defined as a lack of blood supply to an organ, as compared to the more general term hypoxia, which is a lack of oxygen. When the adequate amount of blood isn't able to flow to the organs that are needed, because of either vasoconstriction or thrombosis/embolism, then tissues become damaged due to the piling up of metabolic waste, like a multiple car crash or an writing orgy of meth freaks. This basically means that when you ingest stimulants, especially chronically, you are cutting off the maximum amount of blood available to such important things as your brain, lungs, extremities, etc. Because stimulants are vasoconstrictors, sometimes they are used in treating various hypotension disorders, as vasoconstriction naturally occurs in the body so that you avoid orthostatic hypotension, which I get a lot. If you didn't click the link before and don't know what orthostatic hypotension is, then ask yourself if any of this seems familiar:



That shit can be pretty debilitating and it's easy to see why your body would react against being put into such a state of weakness. In an attempt to stop you from blacking out and losing the supply of oxygen to yr brain, your body reverses the low-blood pressure trend and introduces a high-blood pressure alternative. As a fight or flight mechanism of action it is perfect: it will allow young caveman to fly from the hungry beast that creeps up on him while sitting down, instead of just blacking out & giving up & letting the beast have lunch. However, when this consistently happens because of exogenous (a much better term to use than synthetic or artificial, in this kind of talk) stimulation, especially because of drugs, there are many risks one takes:



So what can one do to prevent this from happening? Well first of all the absolute best answer that there is happens to be your own to feet: start walking for several miles (6-12 miles is ideal) a day, everyday if you can, and especially get some walking in if you're high on stimulants. Walking for a long time will improve blood flow, help the brain in its synthesis of dopamine from phenylalanine (I can not find the source for this claim but from my memory, walking & exercise in general was supposedly necessary for the proper synthesis of endogenous amphetamine), and basically help regulate the body closer to homeostasis. Doing this will help you not only avoid brain damage & cognitive impairment, but it should also help you get much higher from the drugs you do. You're much more likely to be able to eat & fall asleep after a meth binge if you managed to sneak in a several hour hike.

There are, however, apparently ways that one can not only prevent such brain damage but actually reverse it. Piracetam may be one of these ways, and Xenon(this would normally link to my site with the Xenon article but my website has not been paid for and so is down. if you want to paypal me or help me with hosting let me know) has been known to do this for a while.

While there is much more to talk about, I am high as a kite on meth right now and need to take some of my own advice. I've dehydrated, stoned, and have been sitting around all day so I'm a prime candidate for blacking the fuck out or depriving my brain of proper nutrients. Thusly I'm going to say a few last things about piracetam for now (there will be more to come on all kinds of stuff, though!) and then go take a cold shower for reasons you may be able to deduce from some of my old posts on RiaB (or if not, expect an article that I've been wanting to do for a while), eat several raw eggs, drink a lot of water, smoke a bowl, and then go for a hike.

Piracetam, as I have tried to shown, is safe & beneficial for young, old, and drug users alike, although it helps the most significantly with those that suffer the worst. Therefore if you take piracetam like many transhumanist nootropic enthusiasts do expecting it to take you from average to super smart and don't experience a damn thing then well, don't cry to me. Take much of what is said about intelligence enhancing, memory enhancing, etc, with a hefty dosage of salt (but not too much sodium - ! ) because everyone will respond differently. Personally I have gained enormous benefits from it, and I've been using it for about three years.

It's extremely cheap, it's available on drugstore.com in a 500 gram case for $30. A common dosage is anywhere from 800 mg to 8 grams at once or over the day, some people recommend using an introductory attack dose while others only respond well to lower dosages. Once again, experiment to find that sweet spot.

A NOTE ON PIRACETAM INTERACTIONS:

Piracetam, when mixed with various drugs, produces interesting effects. It most certainly increases the intensity of psychedelics and can give you very out-there trips, and although everyone responds differently most people agree that it potentiates psychedelics. There are many drugs that it interacts with, so here is a short list I've compiled myself, based on what I know personally. Don't take what I say as the word of god...

Piracetam potentiates these recreational drugs:

MDxx (although I have not tested every various related chemical, piracetam greatly increases ecstasy's euphoria, notably increases hallucinations (CEV & OEV), as well as having a positive effect on the sexual side of the whole experience - and as a male I personally find it easier to get in touch with my feminine & weirdly other side. expect increased insomnia, though)
LSD/LSA (LSD is greatly potentiated by piracetam, except the piracetam to emphasize the clean & mental high that LSD can bring, especially if ergoloid is also brought into the mix; LSA is also potentiated but I've noticed that it is not quite as noticeable as with LSD, your hallucinations will definitely be more vivid & distinct though)
Mushrooms (emphasizes, like MDxx, the feminine aspect & allows great connection, when piracetam is mixed with mushrooms it feels like your brain is introducing all kinds of new connections while you connect with the universe, OEVs will most likely be energy-based and not overwhelming but full of inner meaning, while CEVs should transport you to another universe)
2c-x (I've only mixed piracetam with 2c-b and it makes it speedier, more euphoric, as well enhancing visuals, although in general piracetam doesn't seem to increase other bodily sense and acts primarily in its memory enhancing effect through some visual component; in addition I find trips are much easier to recall & integrate to life if piracetam is used)
Amphetamine (apparently this combination might induce cytotoxicity although I have not researched it conclusively. there are several aspects of this I want to look into but for the most part piracetam potentiates all stimulants)
Cocaine (I'm not much of a coke head but I think piracetam affects it in a similar manner to speed)
Methylphenidate (your ritalin will probably be a bit stronger but piracetam isn't going to turn your shitty ritalin experience into anything amazing)
Ketamine (both times I tried ketamine I'm fairly sure I was on piracetam, and I got very high off of a relatively small amount both times so my gut guess is that it does indeed help but piracetam & how it relates to glutamate and NMDA antagonists should be looked into, too)
Caffeine (a good coffee buzz when combined with piracetam results in a low to mid grade amphetamine buzz, with plenty off mania & irritation)
Nicotine (because of its effects on choline, I think that being on piracetam greatly potentiates nicotines effect and you may find yourself getting nicotine rushes even if you chain smoke; apparently it is also helpful in stopping smoking and is probably why I can smoke as much as I want socially
and rarely crave it in private)
Alcohol (except to get really sedated, possibly more irritable as well as more sexual although with alcohol your judgement is so clouded it can be hard to tell, although piracetam definitely has a general enhancement effect on alcohol. there was something specific about this mix I was going to touch on but I forgot)
Nutmeg (this combination is pretty fucking sweet, especially in a cocktail involving any of the above. part of nutmeg's mechanism of action is anticholinergic iirc while also having effects similar to more classic psychedelics. it is my opinion that piracetam makes nutmeg more stimulating and can offset some of the heavy sedation that comes with it, while enhancing visuals, thought process, and especially libido. nutmeg itself is a fairly decent nootropic, and the combination feels like a fairly calm MDMA roll but with a mindset much more similar to LSD...music can also be greatly enhanced, which happens on piracetam occasionally, regardless of it being combined)

Piracetam offsets the effects of:

Scopolamine/datura (I made several posts about this before, at a later date I copy pasta some info here, but basically piracetam greatly reduces the amnesia induced by datura and can make datura actually worth trying in low dosages, responsibly)
Memory loss, brain aging, and cognitive impairment (its main use)

Piracetam combined with other nootropics:

Hydergeine- another nootopic which deserves a write up of its own, it was invented by Hofmann
himself and combined with piracetam it has a synergistic effect that has been reported by many. I don't think there has been much research into why this happens but the synergy is fucking amazing and can be a very powerful, double-edged sword. On the one hand this combo will definitely help you with learning & memory, as well as increase motivation, energy, creativity, and in general revitalizes your brain and overall well being like no other. As a very interesting side note, lucid dreaming is very greatly enhanced by this combination as are all psychic & paranormal powers. Whenever I get the chance to I order hydergeine, although its price makes it fairly prohibitive compared to inexpensive piracetam. Using piracetam means you can use much less hydergeine and still get double the effects you'd get using either on their own. "Double" is a general term here and not an exact medical term, lol. When these two are mixed with psychedelics all bets are off because you will trip way harder then you've ever tripped. I think that at some point every acid head has to try Hofmann's Special: ergoloid and LSD, especially in re: piracetam combination. I've tried the three of them together twice before, and each time were universe-shatteringly epic acid trips. The first time was the most amazing and was a very positive experience that has influenced me forever. The other trip also involved some salvia which made an already very intense experience into a mockery of everything we know as reality as every causal law was bent, broken, or burnt up in the hells of the abyss where I met Satan and learned my way through the very bottom of the Kabbalah's tree of Life.
Bromocriptine - piracetam also works well with this, although not nearly to the degree that hydergeine and piracetam do. all three of them together is a sure fire recipe for inducing your own style of manic genius, if the conditions are ripe (i.e.; you have that sort of passion and are capable of learning). the only downside to bromocriptine really is that it always clogs my sinuses.
provigil - this combination is very amphetamine like, although with caffeine like jitters. if you stay up for a while and experience sleep deprivation hallucinations from provigil (especially if you abuse it), the piracetam can cause some pretty intense CEV/OEV hallucinations that are very different from classic hallucinations.
DLPA - enhances the amphetamine feel to DLPA and it can make one feel very "on it", although this combination has a very few times also induced psychedelia which was slightly distracting and seemed to be non-local information that was analogous to my inner state. for instance when I first tried mixing DLPA with a dosage of piracetam (and I think caffeine as well), I was sitting at the computer reading about it when I look up at an unnaturally chaotic red sky, with a 3 dimensional grid like matrix which I have also seen on LSD & mushrooms, although it was of a slightly different nature. this combination can cause some definite anxiety, mania, and the urge to walk around thinking about things.

Alright, I've been working on this post for like two hours straight, right after a meff session so I'm going to stop now and take care of mein needs. Excuse all spelling/grammar mistakes, this is a work in progress. If I got something wrong or if you have something to add please let me know, and don't take everything I say as gospel because not only am I merely a passionate amateur without a full college education on the subject and also am generally very high & prone to making stupid mistakes. All it takes is confusing agonists with antagonists to cause a deep fundamental flaw in whatever theory you might have, resulting in mass confusion and looking like a noob. So research everything for yourself and come to yr own conclusions.

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Old 10-05-2010, 03:41 AM
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Default Re: IMPORTANT THREAD: Increasing Levels of Neurotransmitters. Show Them we Still Have

could someone post what supplements they take everyday/whenever necessary

like a list
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Old 10-05-2010, 06:32 AM
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Default Re: IMPORTANT THREAD: Increasing Levels of Neurotransmitters. Show Them we Still Have

Are there risks when taking these drugs (nootropics is it?? I'm clueless with this stuff) with 'recreational' drugs?
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Old 10-05-2010, 06:38 AM
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Default Re: IMPORTANT THREAD: Increasing Levels of Neurotransmitters. Show Them we Still Have

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Originally Posted by FON View Post
Are there risks when taking these drugs (nootropics is it?? I'm clueless with this stuff) with 'recreational' drugs?
well I briefly touched on piracetams interactions with various drugs, and while it is the original nootropic there are a slew of them like there are recreational drugs and they each have their own profile of danger.

also, if anyone actually reads my post all the way through they get one E cookie.
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Old 10-05-2010, 01:08 PM
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Default Re: IMPORTANT THREAD: Increasing Levels of Neurotransmitters. Show Them we Still Have

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Originally Posted by iMagiNation View Post
well I briefly touched on piracetams interactions with various drugs, and while it is the original nootropic there are a slew of them like there are recreational drugs and they each have their own profile of danger.

also, if anyone actually reads my post all the way through they get one E cookie.
Yeah that was helpful and cleared up any concerns with piracetam. Just curious if there is any that have risks.

I read the whole post btw. So feed me.
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Old 10-05-2010, 02:01 PM
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Default Re: IMPORTANT THREAD: Increasing Levels of Neurotransmitters. Show Them we Still Have

Hey man if you take the time to write it out I'll take the time to try and learn something.

I believe my part would be best played asking questions.

We have the cocktail for recreation, which is also healthy. We have the information on memory/cognitive/(recreational drug) enhancers.

What can you tell me about PharmaGABA and L-theanine?

What about anxiety reducing cocktails?

What cab you tell me about chemical imbalance induced depression and methods to balance those neuroreceptors?

I'll think of more questions I guess.
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Old 10-06-2010, 03:58 AM
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Default Re: IMPORTANT THREAD: Increasing Levels of Neurotransmitters. Show Them we Still Have

Here's a few paragraphs from an article I was reading through, and the link is at the bottom in case anybody wants it.

Quote:
Nonpharmacologic methods of raising brain serotonin may not only improve mood and social functioning of healthy people — a worthwhile objective even without additional considerations — but would also make it possible to test the idea that increases in brain serotonin may help protect against the onset of various mental and physical disorders. Four strategies that are worth further investigation are discussed below.
The article by Perreau-Linck and colleagues36 (page 430 of this issue) provides an initial lead about one possible strategy for raising brain serotonin. Using positron emission tomography, they obtained a measure of serotonin synthesis in the brains of healthy participants who underwent positive, negative and neutral mood inductions. Reported levels of happiness were positively correlated and reported levels of sadness were negatively correlated with serotonin synthesis in the right anterior cingulate cortex. The idea that alterations in thought, either self-induced or due to psychotherapy, can alter brain metabolism is not new. Numerous studies have demonstrated changes in blood flow in such circumstances. However, reports related to specific transmitters are much less common. In one recent study, meditation was reported to increase release of dopamine.37 The study by Perreau-Linck and colleagues36 is the first to report that self-induced changes in mood can influence serotonin synthesis. This raises the possibility that the interaction between serotonin synthesis and mood may be 2-way, with serotonin influencing mood and mood influencing serotonin. Obviously, more work is needed to answer questions in this area. For example, is the improvement in mood associated with psychotherapy accompanied by increases in serotonin synthesis? If more precise information is obtained about the mental states that increase serotonin synthesis, will this help to enhance therapy techniques?
Exposure to bright light is a second possible approach to increasing serotonin without drugs. Bright light is, of course, a standard treatment for seasonal depression, but a few studies also suggest that it is an effective treatment for nonseasonal depression38 and also reduces depressed mood in women with premenstrual dysphoric disorder39 and in pregnant women suffering from depression.40 The evidence relating these effects to serotonin is indirect. In human postmortem brain, serotonin levels are higher in those who died in summer than in those who died in winter.41 A similar conclusion came from a study on healthy volunteers, in which serotonin synthesis was assessed by measurements of the serotonin metabolite 5-hydroxyindoleacetic acid (5-HIAA) in the venous outflow from the brain.42 There was also a positive correlation between serotonin synthesis and the hours of sunlight on the day the measurements were made, independent of season. In rats, serotonin is highest during the light part of the light–dark cycle, and this state is driven by the photic cycle rather than the circadian rhythm.43,44 The existence of a retinoraphe tract may help explain why, in experimental animals, neuronal firing rates, c-fos expression and the serotonin content in the raphe nuclei are responsive to retinal light exposure.44–48 In humans, there is certainly an interaction between bright light and the serotonin system. The mood-lowering effect of acute tryptophan depletion in healthy women is completely blocked by carrying out the study in bright light (3000 lux) instead of dim light.49
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2077351/

I bold'd a couple parts, as you can see. In other words, be happy, and you'll create more serotonin, making you happier, which makes you create more serotonin, which makes you happier, and then you meditate, which creates dopamine, which makes you happier, which makes you create more serotonin.

EDIT: Oh, and I've seen a couple mentions of exercise being good for dopamine and I believe norepinephrine, but apparently it's good for serotonin too.

Quote:
A third strategy that may raise brain serotonin is exercise. A comprehensive review of the relation between exercise and mood concluded that antidepressant and anxiolytic effects have been clearly demonstrated.53 In the United Kingdom the National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence, which works on behalf of the National Health Service and makes recommendations on treatments according to the best available evidence, has published a guide on the treatment of depression.54 The guide recommends treating mild clinical depression with various strategies, including exercise rather than antidepressants, because the risk–benefit ratio is poor for antidepressant use in patients with mild depression. Exercise improves mood in subclinical populations as well as in patients. The most consistent effect is seen when regular exercisers undertake aerobic exercise at a level with which they are familiar.53 However, some skepticism remains about the antidepressant effect of exercise, and the National Institute of Mental Health in the United States is currently funding a clinical trial of the antidepressant effect of exercise that is designed to overcome sources of potential bias and threats to internal and external validity that have limited previous research.55
Several lines of research suggest that exercise increases brain serotonin function in the human brain. Post and colleagues56 measured biogenic amine metabolites in cerebrospinal fluid (CSF) of patients with depression before and after they increased their physical activity to simulate mania. Physical activity increased 5-HIAA, but it is not clear that this was due to increased serotonin turnover or to mixing of CSF from higher regions, which contain higher levels of 5-HIAA, with lumbar CSF (or to a combination of both mechanisms). Nonetheless, this finding stimulated many animal studies on the effects of exercise. For example, Chaouloff and colleagues57 showed that exercise increased tryptophan and 5-HIAA in rat ventricles. More recent studies using intracerebral dialysis have shown that exercise increases extracellular serotonin and 5-HIAA in various brain areas, including the hippocampus and cortex (for example, see58–60). Two different mechanisms may be involved in this effect. As reviewed by Jacobs and Fornal,61 motor activity increases the firing rates of serotonin neurons, and this results in increased release and synthesis of serotonin.62 In addition, there is an increase in the brain of the serotonin precursor tryptophan that persists after exercise.63
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Old 10-06-2010, 01:53 PM
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Default Re: IMPORTANT THREAD: Increasing Levels of Neurotransmitters. Show Them we Still Have

Is it okay to source a website that ships overseas and sells nootropics etc, other than ebay? Drugstore.com apparently doesn't ship to Australia.
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Old 10-07-2010, 05:33 AM
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Default Re: IMPORTANT THREAD: Increasing Levels of Neurotransmitters. Show Them we Still Have

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Originally Posted by FON View Post
Is it okay to source a website that ships overseas and sells nootropics etc, other than ebay? Drugstore.com apparently doesn't ship to Australia.
Yes, its fine. Ebay has crap prices..

Oh, and..

Quote:
Originally Posted by iMagiNation View Post
Awesome
Post saaavved!!!

Thanks for writing this up!
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Old 10-07-2010, 08:29 AM
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I just want to reiterate my earlier post for those of you that may have glossed over it. To clarify, the following is my strategy for promoting the natural production and balance of neurotransmitters in the body. I noticed that some of you asked about this kind of thing specifically.

My post below deals mainly with dopamine, serotonin, epinephrine, norepinephrine, GABA, glutamine. You can look up what these specific neurotransmitters do on Wikipedia or something, but generally they deal with mental health stability overall. All together they are related to happiness, depression, focus, calm, anxiety, etc.

My method uses a system that places the correct precursors throughout the body in order to allow for the best environment and circumstances for the natural production and balance of these neurotransmitters. To note, use of drugs in general will have a negative impact on the chance for success in using this system. However, it will still have a tremendous impact overall if you are currently doing nothing.

Below, after the quote of my previous post, I have compiled a list of my current daily vitamin/supplement use. I hope you find it helpful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by duder View Post
I use the following:

Procite-D for encouraging natural dopamine production

Lentra for GABA receptors

Some supplement/vitamin to regulate and encourage adrenal functioning

Prolent for regulating other neurotransmitters related with sleep cycle

You can find this stuff on here http://www.sanesco.net/products-and-services


I also recommend a multi-vitamin kind of thing. I use Ultranutrients, which you can find here http://www.purecaps.com/itemdy00.asp?t1=uvc3

There are some other things that you should use for digestive absorption, such as digestive enzymes, probiotics, etc.

You can also use melatonin to help regulate your sleep cycle. Its okay to use 6mg per night.

Generally, the goal is to regulate your natural neurotransmitter production levels, namely the following: dopamine, serotonin, epinephrine, norepinephrine, GABA, glutamine. These are the main ones. You can have your levels tested if you want by urine tests through the mail. Sanesco provides such tests I think.

Hope this helps.
------------------

Okay. Here is my Current Daily List of Supplements:


Beginning of Breakfast:
2 Vital-zymes Forte

With Breakfast:
1 Beta-12
3 Ultranutrients
3 BMJ
1 ProOmega
1 NAC
2 Procite-D
2 Adrenal Formula

End of Breakfast:
1 Ultra Flora Probiotic


In Between Breakfast and Lunch:
1 Tanalbit


With Lunch:
2 Adrenal Formula

End of Lunch:
1 Ultra Flora Probiotic


In between Lunch and Dinner:
1 Tanalbit


Beginning of Dinner:
2 Vital-zymes Forte

With Dinner:
1 Beta-12
3 Ultranutrients
3 BMJ
1 ProOmega
1 NAC
1 Lentra
Sometimes 2 MSM capsules

End of Dinner:
1 Ultra Flora Probiotic


Before Sleep:
2 Prolent
6mg Melatonin
1 Tanalbit

3mg Lunesta (only thing on list that is available by prescription only)


ADDITIONALLY: I also make a shake in the morning, and sometimes in the afternoon as well, that is composed of the following:

2 scoops of Xymogen Fit Food Lite Protein (Vanilla or Chocolate are the best)
1 scoop of NanoGreens
1 scoop of SuperSeed Beyond Fiber Formula

If you cannot get the Xymogen Fit Food Lite Protein, then use NanoPro Protein Formula (Vanilla is the best flavor). Two scoops of this are fine.

---------------------------------


To note: All products above are manufactured by various groups. If you have a specific question about finding one of them, let me know. I will look on the bottle to see who makes it.

Also, the Adrenal Formula is the only supplement above that is not available to the public. My doctor custom makes that formula, so you will not be able to get that specific supplement. However, you can probably obtain something similar. Basically, one is looking to promote the healthy functioning of the adrenal system in the body. There are various supplements out there that do this. Sanesco makes a couple of formulas to address the adrenal system. I recommend one called Contegra. You take 1-2 in the morning with breakfast. You can find it here: http://www.sanesco.net/practitioner-...nal-therapy/32

I hope that this helps to clarify, and, once again, this information is for nutritional purposes directed towards the natural balance and production of neurotransmitters.

Additionally, my complete supplement list above is fully comprehensive in balancing all aspects of nutrition throughout the body. You may find this especially helpful if you are not currently using any general nutritional plan. It will help in optimizing the effects of the neurotransmitter supplements. My supplement list works to promote an integrated balance of energy, digestion, and brain health.

Please feel free to ask me any questions that may help to clarify any of the information presented above. I am happy to answer any questions that anyone may have.
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  #28  
Old 10-10-2010, 04:18 AM
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Default Re: IMPORTANT THREAD: Increasing Levels of Neurotransmitters. Show Them we Still Have

Thats a fuckload of tablets. Any chance it could grief your body processing them?
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Old 10-11-2010, 03:57 AM
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Default Re: IMPORTANT THREAD: Increasing Levels of Neurotransmitters. Show Them we Still Have

And can anybody source a reliable website that sells piracetam, huperzine, or any of the above items and ships worldwide/to Australia?
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Old 10-12-2010, 07:33 AM
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Thats a fuckload of tablets. Any chance it could grief your body processing them?
yes. you should take them with meals, and space out the ingestion as much as possible. also, you can get some things in powdered form, which makes it easier to process. i don't think that the tablets themselves will harm your system, but you may not process all the nutrients inside them if you take them without food, etc.
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Old 10-13-2010, 07:47 PM
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Default Re: IMPORTANT THREAD: Increasing Levels of Neurotransmitters. Show Them we Still Have

How pricey does taking all these supplements daily get?
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Old 10-14-2010, 06:35 AM
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How pricey does taking all these supplements daily get?
I don't know the exact daily cost. This kind of program can generate high costs overall.

Obviously, one can make some substitutions or not take some of the supplements based on budget constraints. You can also generally shop around online to find low prices, etc.

As an additional note, proper diet and exercise can help with accelerating the positive effects generated from this type of nutritional program.
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Old 10-18-2010, 05:55 PM
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Default Re: IMPORTANT THREAD: Increasing Levels of Neurotransmitters. Show Them we Still Have



You guys are good.

Will respond in more depth later.

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Old 10-19-2010, 10:23 AM
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Default Re: IMPORTANT THREAD: Increasing Levels of Neurotransmitters. Show Them we Still Have

Subscribing to read tomorrow's epic thread...
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Old 10-25-2010, 11:39 AM
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Default Re: IMPORTANT THREAD: Increasing Levels of Neurotransmitters. Show Them we Still Have

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Can anybody recommend a good starting point for learning about neurotransmitters? Other than this thread of course...I follow what is going on, but am interested to learn more.
I second this. I am inevitably picking up bits and pieces from reading threads like this, but a guide for the absolute beginner ala the fucking noob thread in F&B would defiantly come in handy.
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Old 10-26-2010, 02:35 AM
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Default Re: IMPORTANT THREAD: Increasing Levels of Neurotransmitters. Show Them we Still Have

After a while searching on google I found enough info to leave me satisfied...But yeah, additional info is welcome.
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Old 10-26-2010, 05:00 PM
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Default Re: IMPORTANT THREAD: Increasing Levels of Neurotransmitters. Show Them we Still Have

That's a good idea, but without a gram of meth there's no way I'm going to attempt that on my own.
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Old 10-27-2010, 06:27 PM
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Default Re: IMPORTANT THREAD: Increasing Levels of Neurotransmitters. Show Them we Still Have

So caffeine and multivitamins... you guys are fucking genius...
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Old 12-19-2010, 12:24 AM
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Default Re: IMPORTANT THREAD: Increasing Levels of Neurotransmitters. Show Them we Still Have

dude what happened to this thread
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Old 12-19-2010, 12:43 AM
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Default Re: IMPORTANT THREAD: Increasing Levels of Neurotransmitters. Show Them we Still Have

Archived, if that helps. I'mma start archiving good threads.

mike
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